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The Daily Show with Jon Stewart


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#45961

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 2:13 PM

It was something she said within the context of a discussion about economic issues, and it was obvious what she meant.

I think this kinda proves my point. It was obvious to you and me, but not to those who would twist it. Unfortunately, it's time to make our points crystal-clear, and not just to ourselves but to those who are jumping up and down for the opportunity to disaffirm what we're trying to say.

Unfortunately, these days, we have to think about these things and all start learning to become great communicators. IMHO, the problem with "us" is that we think we're so rational, no rational person could possibly ever get us wrong. And maybe that's true, but the people who are hearing us are not all rational, and they love playing this game. So if a person can't be persuasive, maybe he or she shouldn't go there.

Personally, I don't like seeing anyone's right to communication muzzled. But I think it's time to be really, really smart about it, and like possibilities said, start stating the case in a way no one can miss and which makes the assholes back down. Being "rational" and polite and clumsy doesn't cut it. And frankly, I'm glad for Jon, because he's not afraid to say, "Don't talk unless you see the other guy coming."
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#45962

dubbel zout

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 3:33 PM

It was obvious to you and me, but not to those who would twist it.


Those twisting it knew exactly what Rosen meant; that's why they could twist it. Rosen was careless to say Ann Romney had never worked, even in the context of her point, and her apology just made things worse. Sigh.

Fox News is happy to twist even the clearest statements, so in some ways it doesn't matter what's said.
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#45963

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:05 PM

It was obvious to you and me, but not to those who would twist it.

Those twisting it knew exactly what Rosen meant; that's why they could twist it.

I don't think so. Let's put it this way: They know how to capitalize on the cloudy aspect they can exploit to their followers who want to believe them. If Rosen had gotten it right, they might still have battled her, but at least they couldn't "reinterpret." I often question whether their twisting of things said means they're really "getting' the message, because they so often argue for positions that are not in anyone's best interest, including theirs.

Fox News is happy to twist even the clearest statements, so in some ways it doesn't matter what's said.

I don't know that they "twist" the "clearest" statements; I think they have another strategy for those. But whatever they do, they seem to get away with it. I just think if you're going to take the attitude that there's nothing that can be done about their gambits, you're doomed to keep snatching defeat from victory. It's really not Fox and its handmaidens that makes my blood boil; it's that so few can or will stand up to them in a meaningful way. When the two sides do debate a point, it always seems to boil down to a "neener-neener" contest.

Edited by shamskygirl, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:15 PM.

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#45964

LADreamr

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:06 PM

Fox News is happy to twist even the clearest statements, so in some ways it doesn't matter what's said.


Yes, and as we have seen, if they can't find a way to twist something, they will edit the tape to look how they want it to, or, as Santorum often did, just outright lie. They seem to have a base that will believe whatever they tell them, so they don't even have to prove anything. I agree that we should always be careful with our words, but also, I'm tired of the onus always being on us. We need to start calling them out more obviously on their misdirection and lies. I don't mean that we start acting like them, but I think if Pres. Obama had addressed it by saying something more like, "Clearly what Ms. Rosen meant was that Ann Romney has not had to deal with the economic problems that most mothers do, and we should use this dialogue to see what we can do going forward to make this a more workable situation for people who are struggling...", instead of throwing her under the bus, he would have not only gained points with women, he would also have shown the right that he intends to change the way we talk about things now. It would have been a much better reaction, on so many levels.

Jon always seems to see through those smokescreens, so when it looks like he has missed, or skewed, the point, it's kind of a facepalm moment.

Edited by LADreamr, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:08 PM.

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#45965

walnutqueen

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:32 PM

I love Jane Goodall, too. Whenever I see her, I start crying for no reason. It's weird but true. It's like she moves me even before she does anything at all.


I feel the same way about her, possibilities. I also happen to think that Jane Goodall is the most beautiful woman on earth. I'm tempted to break my long avoidance of movie theaters (last one I went to was March of the Penguins!) and see Chimpanzees during the first week - depending on how much of the ticket proceeds go to Goodall's foundation.

Edited by walnutqueen, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:59 PM.

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#45966

possibilities

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:37 PM

I think if Pres. Obama had addressed it by saying something more like, "Clearly what Ms. Rosen meant was that Ann Romney has not had to deal with the economic problems that most mothers do, and we should use this dialogue to see what we can do going forward to make this a more workable situation for people who are struggling...", instead of throwing her under the bus, he would have not only gained points with women, he would also have shown the right that he in!

And that would have been so much more tactful than the diatribe I suggested! This is why I'm neither a comedian nor an office holder. Too irate.

I feel the same way about her, possibilities. I also happen to think that Jane Gpodall is the most beautiful woman on earth.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this!

Edited by possibilities, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:45 PM.

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#45967

braggtastic

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:37 PM

Twenty measly cents per ticket generously donated by Disneynature. They couldn't have made it a dollar? I'll see the movie some other time and donate to Goodall's foundation myself.

Edited by braggtastic, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:38 PM.

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#45968

LADreamr

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:42 PM

And that would have been so much more tactful than the diatribe I suggested! This is why I'm neither a comedian nor an office holder. Too irate.


LOL, but I like the comprehensive and cathartic nature of yours, possibilities. However someone says it, it very badly needs to be said.

Edited by LADreamr, Apr 17, 2012 @ 4:43 PM.

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#45969

dubbel zout

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 5:04 PM

Twenty measly cents per ticket generously donated by Disneynature. They couldn't have made it a dollar?


It's better than nothing, but sheesh. What a stingy gesture.
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#45970

walnutqueen

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 5:05 PM

Twenty measly cents per ticket generously donated by Disneynature. They couldn't have made it a dollar? I'll see the movie some other time and donate to Goodall's foundation myself.


20 cents is just SO stingy, braggtastic - I'd be embarrassed to promote the movie in this manner. I'll wait till it airs on HBO or some pay channel, and donate the entire admission price x 2.
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#45971

shabbieshok

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:33 PM

I think instead of getting all wound up about what either the Republicans or the Democrats say, we should all be rising up and demanding that the media be more responsible and that they actually cover news and policies instead of mud fights based on all the twitters and emails the campaign war rooms send out. I agree that the Republicans are masters of manipulating the media and like Jane Goodall's chimpanzees they fling poo like nobody else, but it's shameful that every other cable network and even mainstream media's news departments pick up on the shit slinging and make a big story out of it.

Hilary Rosen said nothing wrong and President Obama and Michelle Obama's responses were correct in tone and content but it all got lost in the media's ridiculous side show. I don't like much about the Republicans but I have to give them kudos for winning the slime war and knowing how to maximize media coverage of the nonsense. I don't want the Democrats to fall to their level but we the people have to make our voices heard and demand better.
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#45972

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:51 PM

I agree that we should always be careful with our words, but also, I'm tired of the onus always being on us. We need to start calling them out more obviously on their misdirection and lies. I don't mean that we start acting like them, but I think if Pres. Obama had addressed it by saying something more like, "Clearly what Ms. Rosen meant was that Ann Romney has not had to deal with the economic problems that most mothers do, and we should use this dialogue to see what we can do going forward to make this a more workable situation for people who are struggling...", instead of throwing her under the bus, he would have not only gained points with women, he would also have shown the right that he intends to change the way we talk about things now. It would have been a much better reaction, on so many levels.

Jon always seems to see through those smokescreens, so when it looks like he has missed, or skewed, the point, it's kind of a facepalm moment.

I don't think I was talking about being "careful," I was talking about being accurate, to the point, powerful. If we're not going to take responsibility for what we say, how do we expect anything to change? Bottom line: I guess I don't understand why people are defending Rosen's remarks, and I really don't see how Jon is wrong in saying she blew it. Everybody who reacted to them certainly could have handled that better, from Obama on down, but the whole mess didn't have to happen at all. Anyway, there are women on both sides of the aisle dealing with severe economic handicaps. It's a serious issue, and we need serious people to address it. How can we deal with this problem in bipartisan fashion and stop using it as another way to bitch at each other? I think the onus is on all of us for that.

Edited by shamskygirl, Apr 17, 2012 @ 8:03 PM.

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#45973

LADreamr

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 8:28 PM

How can we deal with this problem in bipartisan fashion and stop using it as another way to bitch at each other? I think the onus is on all of us for that.


We're on the same page.
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#45974

shabbieshok

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:08 PM

I guess I don't understand why people are defending Rosen's remarks

I'll stand up and defend Rosen's remarks because what she said, in its entirety, was completely accurate. It's not Rosen's fault that everyone and their dog took a small bit of it out of context and created a phony political brouhaha. The economic disparity is an issue and Rosen was addressing it.
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#45975

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:24 PM

Well, that still doesn't do it for me. Sorry. She was the one who asserted Ann Romney's out-of-touchness in the first place. Couldn't she have made the important statement about economic disparity without that? It comes across as someone who mainly wants to win an election for her side. On top of the political BS, it's just one woman disparaging another, which I personally cannot abide. Rosen didn't need to go there, and it undermined whatever good intentions she had. I.e., to quote Jon, stupid. IMO.

Edited by shamskygirl, Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:48 PM.

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#45976

shabbieshok

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 1:41 AM

Did you see the whole segment on CNN? She was asked to comment on Mitt Romney's statement that he depends on his wife to tell him what women in America are thinking about and Anne apparently tells him they're thinking about the economy. Rosen didn't disparage Anne Romney. She disparaged the idea that Anne Romney should be considered an expert consultant in her husband's presidential campaign, especially in the area of women's economic concerns, and especially considering that Mrs Romney has never had an economic concern in her life. I'm quite sure Jon didn't call Hilary Rosen stupid. He called the whole uproar about an innocuous comment stupid.
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#45977

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:18 AM

I think Jon called her original comment stupid. And yes, she did all the predictable backpedaling later, but that's not what he was talking about. Besides that, it was just one fleeting remark as precedent to a long segment about Fox's stupidities, so it arguably doesn't deserve the attention it's been given. In any case, this probably should be a private conversation.

I enjoyed seeing Julia Louis-Dreyfus last night, and I loved that see had the effrontery to leave a note in Al Franken's desk—although, pornography jokes—meh. Still, I hope he laughed at it. I'd be worried about him if he didn't.


Geraldo: The kind of cluelessness that keeps on giving.
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#45978

dubbel zout

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:38 AM

I enjoyed seeing Julia Louis-Dreyfus last night, and I loved that see had the effrontery to leave a note in Al Franken's desk—although, pornography jokes—meh. Still, I hope he laughed at it. I'd be worried about him if he didn't.


I wonder if she talked to him about how things work; I imagine he could give her an earful.

I loved Louis-Dreyfus shutting down Jon about the fictional president never being seen on her show.
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#45979

bulldawgtownie

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:42 AM




It was obvious to you and me, but not to those who would twist it.


Those twisting it knew exactly what Rosen meant; that's why they could twist it.
I don't think so

I think it's a mistake to dismiss Fox News, other talking heads like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck, and GOP candidates as stupid. They know exactly what they're doing and that's what makes them so dangerous and the reason why I'm disgusted with their behavior. It would be one thing if that's what they truly believed.

and I loved that see had the effrontery to leave a note in Al Franken's desk—

Eh, it's not that ballsy. They both were on SNL and IIRC it was during some of the same years and probably are at least decent friends.

Every time I see Geraldo Rivera I long for the time when he got his nosebroken by a skinhead. I can't believe I ever watched that douche.

The conversation between Jon and JLD about how in hollywood people act like/think they have power, whereas with Washington, DC the people there with actual power are more concerned with getting on camera was both interesting and IMO scary accurate.

Edited by bulldawgtownie, Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:57 AM.

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#45980

attica finch

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:54 AM

I thought the shout-out to Senator Franken was great. I bet comedians from his cohort find the whole 'omg he's an actual Senator' to be kind of a mind-bend. (Me, I'm nursing a feeble hope that someday the Senator gets named to SCOTUS, just so we can call it the Frankencourt. Which I would totally do, even if he weren't Chief. "But he's not even a lawyer!" Naysayers say. Ptooey! I say. I bet he'd be great, and I want a Frankencourt.)

I hadn't planned on watching the JLD show, but finding out its "In the Loop" provenance made me set the ol' dvr. I'll give it a shot.

The ladies on Jason's panel were sexy when they were angry! (I'm kidding! I couldn't resist! And I'm kinda surprised Jason did resist...)
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#45981

EmperorJon

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 12:07 PM

Geraldo Rivera is the war correspondent version of the internet tough guy.

Hilarious seeing Hodgeman away from the desk and in front of a greenscreen. His deranged millionaire character seems apropo for the other millionaires and their cockblocking enablers in the Republican party who think the Buffett rule won't mean much so why bother, yet are desperate to defund Planned Parenthood. Doucheholes!

Looks like everyone's favourite Catholic asswipe Bill Donohue wants to lead a multi faith boycott against TDS because of their Monday segment on the Republican's war on everything. Good luck in that happening, troll.

And I expect TDS to comment on Romney endorser Ted Nugent threatening to kill Obama if he wins in November, which is way, way, WAAAAAAY worse than anything the right accused Hilary Rosen of saying.
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#45982

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 1:16 PM

Looks like everyone's favourite Catholic asswipe Bill Donohue wants to lead a multi faith boycott against TDS because of their Monday segment on the Republican's war on everything. Good luck in that happening, troll.
And I expect TDS to comment on Romney endorser Ted Nugent threatening to kill Obama if he wins in November, which is way, way, WAAAAAAY worse than anything the right accused Hilary Rosen of saying.

Y'know, fuck them both and the horses they rode in on. Nugent still hasn't gotten over the five minutes of relevance he thought he had in the 1970s. If his big, fat, ignorant mouth lands him in lockdown, all the better. And who is Bill Donohue a hero to, except for crackpots and the socially maladjusted? He's just bitter because God didn't make him Pat Robertson.
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#45983

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:42 PM

He's just bitter because God didn't make him Pat Robertson.


I think he's bitter because he'll never be pope.

Edited by dubbel zout, Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:46 PM.

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#45984

Hanahope

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:48 PM

Rosen actually apologized? /Sigh What is it about democrats in the public eye that cave? Why can't they all be like Bernie Sanders?

I'm more disappointed in Rosen now for apologizing for doing nothing wrong, for having her statement mis-sound-bited and taken out of context. I means seriously, I doubt Ann Romney even "worked" at being a mother, what with nannies and a staff to cook and clean. I'm sure it was such hard work to shop at Neiman's every day and "do lunch."
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#45985

bulldawgtownie

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 3:00 PM

It's unfortunate that she had to apologize but her job was probably on the line so I can't blame her for doing it. I don't compare her to other dems who cave, because they're elected officials and supposed to be leaders.
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#45986

braggtastic

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

Dick Clark on Moment of Zen?
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#45987

shamskygirl

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 3:19 PM

I used to love Dick Clark in "Bandstand" days . . .

Why can't they all be like Bernie Sanders?

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat; he's a Socialist who (sometimes to his chagrin, I'm sure) caucuses with Democrats. I've never known him to say anything that wasn't well thought-out and expressed. As for Rosen, she didn't just get put through the wringer by Fox; she was criticized by her peers as well.

Edited by shamskygirl, Apr 18, 2012 @ 3:22 PM.

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#45988

happybumblebee1

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:20 PM

I know I love this show and I sing its praises all the time but really Monday's show was just...just...perfect. And illustrates that this show doesn't just send up stories with jokes, but it reveals issues and situations in such a way that one never gets with the so called news media. I always learn when I watch this show.

Monday's show flowed beautifully.

It begins by talking about what should rightfully be dominating the news, the prostitution scandal of the friggin Secret Service, and moves to the gaffe. Then, it's how the story was glomped onto by the media, especially Fox News: "The easiest job is filling up Fox's programming after Rosen's comment." Heh!

And why are they hitting so hard: because its their first juicy attack now that they can focus their ire on the democrats.
But it's so painfully clear how hypocritical they are.
Lines that are awesome: "Rosen just made the Republican party pro-choice." "Romney just said that his wife has no dignity!"

The second section was even better.

Fox wants to say that the War on Women is phony? Fine, but Jon rightfully contrasts it with the far more ridiculous use of the term 'war' that being: War on Christmas, which is about as fake and made up to rile up the troops so to speak as anything.

Next, cut to the evidence of, well, if not 'war' something decidedly sinister going on all over the country.

But when it got to the serious, long-ass montage of the various Fox 'wars' - I knew about Christmas, I didn't know that 'food' has had war declared on it - where I think I may have gotten a little verklempt at how fantastic this show is.

ETA:

Looks like everyone's favourite Catholic asswipe Bill Donohue wants to lead a multi faith boycott against TDS because of their Monday segment on the Republican's war on everything. Good luck in that happening, troll.

God, I hate that man.

He's just bitter because God didn't make him Pat Robertson.

HEE! There is no air and I am dying.

Edited by happybumblebee1, Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:25 PM.

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#45989

EmperorJon

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 2:38 AM

Seriously, do you really need a Commander-in-Chief of Funnytown? If humor is used to pick a president, then Jon would problably win in a landslide. Of course it wouldn't have hurt Romney to try and be funny on the Tonight Show seeing as Jay Leno is incapable of even being slighly amusing, much less funny.

Would have been so nice to have had a Dick Clark salute for a MoZ.
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#45990

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 9:11 AM

It's unfortunate that she had to apologize but her job was probably on the line so I can't blame her for doing it.


What's unfortunate is how some boss people are so CYA that they don't bother looking at the whole picture and force the underling to apologize/resign for no reason. Just like how Sherrie Sherrod had to resign because Andrew Breitbart took her statement and mis-sound-bited it out of context.

Why can't they all be like Bernie Sanders?


Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat; he's a Socialist who (sometimes to his chagrin, I'm sure) caucuses with Democrats.


Oh, I understand he's a Socialist. But he is proud of that, he owns it. He doesn't kow-tow because he has strong opinions and backs them up. Some Democrats are so afraid of the "socialist" label, even when its not even applicable, that they will bend over backwards, cave and apologize for some prior statement or position they took. They've allowed themselves to be so pushed around and pushed to the right that some people suggest Reagan was closer to the current "democratic" position than the republican position. Reagan! For God's sake! I just wish that the Dems, including Obama, would hold their ground and quite getting pulled further to the right without even a token tug back.

As to last night's episode, I'm not voting for a comedian, I'm voting for a President.

I understand what Reich is saying, I'm just not convinced a real viable third party will rise.
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