TWoP Tennison
Jan 15, 2009 @ 12:37 pm
From Zap2it:
The Persuader attacks Clark; Chloe, as Brainiac, tells Davis he is Doomsday and that he was created to destroy the ``other Kryptonian'' and the world.
That hiatus seemed really short.
CantThinkUpName
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
How come Lois was focused in on the previouslies when she wasn't even in this episode.
I don't have HD and the show was broadcast in full screen which ended up making the framing look off and names during the credits didn't appear on screen.
See! See! Chloe's not in the history books! She's not meta! She's not iconic! She's nothing! NOTHING!! (Lightning Lad acknowledged a possible 'name' change!)
What obsessive creeps the Legion are. Do they do nothing but read about Superman and his past? Persuader went out like a bitch. How come it took people so long to realize to go to the Fortress?
Did anyone get the sense that Imra is a lesbian and Lana became some sort of mythical lesbian figure? Her looming eyes, her ass kissage of Lana, her talk of Lana's destiny ("About the hardships you've overcome and the great things you'll go on to do."). Imra had such a girl crush on Lang.
Also, "Garth you're acting like a sub?" Really? Wow show. You went there. Bravo.
Chloe's memory wipe better not be ignored. But it probably will.
"Up until here comes the bride then its a blur" -- interesting, interesting. She doesn't remember saying "I do."
Better than average episode I suppose. I think Jones did a better job at writing since it didn't just feel like a template episode, as so many do.
Writing Wrongs
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
So did Lana have Clark or Bizarro's baby? Is that the vibe they are putting out with the 7 months mention and "I know why you really left", "you're secret is safe with me"?
cmirk01
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
Easily hands down one of the best episode of the season. By far. And the wink to Chloe possibly not being remembered because of a change of name, or inadvertently inspiring Clark to fly, priceless. Fucking priceless. Nois's absence was just the kicker!
Durq
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
The Legion are endearing. I would find them an acceptable spin-off.
Love that Clark's big counter-plan to killing Chloe is: "Let's all work together". Whereupon everyone else suddenly remembers all these other solutions that had somehow failed to occur to them before. "I'll magnify the neutrons!"
AM managed a very entertaining James Marsters impression.
Line of the night: "Lana, no one has sacrificed more than you have..." Well, of course not! I think we all saw that one coming.
acampbell
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
I loved the Legion, and even though there was way too much Lana crap (did they just bring Lanapedia back because Clark needed help figuring stuff out? and I hate the way she just seems to have moved back in at the farm without any discussion, just walking right in, and everything) they just skirted the edges of Lana/Clana pimpage and didn't go there full force. I'm glad Clark was mainly talking about HIMSELF at the end and not her!
Too damn bad my VHS tape ran out 15 minutes before the ep ends.
jeromycraig
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
All in all, I rather liked it. The very first comic I ever read, decades ago, was Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes, so I have to report that I squeed as soon as I recognized Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl. Why yes, I am a gigantic nerd.
To be honest, I liked the show a lot better in the earlier seasons, when it was more like a supernatural drama, and didn't care for the attempts in recent seasons to move closer to comic canon, but I'm really hooked on the whole Doomsday storyline. Here's hoping they don't screw it up.
Oh, also, the Legion's mention that there is no record of Chloe Sullivan in the future's history leaves me all cold and prickly inside. Quit messing with the fans, dudes.
wirebiter
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:10 pm
I am so confused with what Chloe remembers and what she should remember. I don't think the writers have a clue and I doubt they'll ever try to make sense of it.
Yet another mention to Chloe changing her name.
The Hardships of Lana? I must have missed these what hardships are they talking about?
jediknight
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:10 pm
If DC were to ever let Geoff Johns go, that would be one of the biggest mistakes they could make. The guy is awesome. Now if only he could teach all the Smallville writers how to be that awesome.
Great to see heroic Clark. Nice to see them showing that he is going to become the Supes that we all know and love. And being adamant about the first rule was nice. It was even better that Clark said that not killing anyone was rule number 1.
The Legion was also awesome. I loved the hero worship, because honestly if Supes were real that would be my reaction. But the best moment from the episode did come from the Legion. And that was trying to turn Brainiac 5 into something good. I actually did a fist pump after that.
Trevacious Guy
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:10 pm
Line of the night: "Lana, no one has sacrificed more than you have..." Well, of course not! I think we all saw that one coming.
True, but it still elicits a certain "Rrrgh!" response.
Lantern7
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:12 pm
That was nice. Okay, so it sucks that the Legion found out that their inspiration was a Big Dumb Alien and a douche to boot, and you need a little fanwanking to explain that not killing was always in the Legion code. But hey...better that we had the Pink Squirrel than Lois.
I'm hoping there could be a JL/Legion crossover one day. Rokk and Vic are both jocks (Rokk's canon is that he was a champion magnoball player on his homeworld Braal). Garth has successfully outdorked Bart, and Garth was a runaway when he had his first adventure. Tougher to link Black Canary and Imra/Saturn Girl (she's actually from Titan, one of Saturn's moons), but maybe Karate Kid can team with Ollie. Damn, I'm in geek overload, aren't I?
Glad to see Chloe's still alive and kicking, and unaware what a big douchey alien her "best friend" is. And at least a name change is still a possibility.
Damn, Doomsday looks nasty. Really, as hard as I can be about PS3, their version of the Superkiller actually fits in nicely with the show. If he snaps Lois like a twig, even better.
Digizane20
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:12 pm
Greetings my bitter fellow Smallville victims on TWOP.
When I learned this travesty was still on the air I decided to catch up on my friend’s bit torrents in time for the newest post Hiatus episode.
Given the earlier low standards, I thought the show would be just as bad as before.
Surprisingly, I was wrong.
Season eight of Smallville was much, much worst than I could have thought possible.
Here’s where we left off before Hiatus.
Shelby: Woof! Previously on Fillerville…
Clark: Dur, I work at Daily Planet now, which my worst enemy owns . Why? No reason! I’m also being a proactive superhero sometimes now, the concept! Strange that no one mentioned this at any point in the last eight years. However, Lana still holds my balls, so I is sad for now. Worst yet is that psychotic stalker I share a desk with at work.
Chloe: I’m completely OOC! It has nothing to do with the evil Kryptonian AI in my brain or my memories being scrambled by my best friend. Or even the writers being incompetent.
Jimmy: I’m still an insecure, jealous womanizing douchebag, who mistreats Chloe at pretty much every chance, but I still get more sex than Lex Luthor!
Oliver: Me too! I have sex on a plane, a mansion or wherever. When not doing that, which isn‘t often, I act like an asshole or try to murder Lex for his dad killing my parents.
MM: I’m now Detective John Jones. Despite losing my powers to save Kal-El’s life, he hasn’t done squat to help me regain them.
Kara: I know the feeling. Even though he wasn’t aware that I was in the Phantom Zone, he could have actually pretended to care and mention my name at least once.
Tess: I stared out good by copying Lex’s 33.1 project. Alas, the only way to connect me to the back story was by being an old flame of Oliver’s. Now I suck.
Davis Bloom/Doomsday: I really AM the best thing about this season, even if that’s not saying much. (It’s true; he is.) Even after putting all these idiots in coffins, I’m still going to appear more like a sympathetic character than the heroes. Even I have more better chemistry with Chloe too!
Lex: Damn it! Thwarted again!
Lana: People and the rules of the universe still bend to my whim, except when there needs to be some forced angst.
Brainiac: Dance, puppets! Dance!
PS3: Screw the long term fans! Season nine here we come! Between the lot of us we should be able to get more seasons by recycling old episode plot lines or just ripping some off TV shows and badly done horror/thriller movies. Let’s see after nine comes… darn. Can’t count that high, best count off toes now.
Electrical Technician: Given the excessive use of lightswitches, Smallville is going to be permanently without power if this keeps up. The circuits can only handle so much.
Dawn Ostroff: I still have no idea what I’m doing!
Now, Legion:
Clark recalls that the Ultimate Destroyer was looking for him. If only he’d thought to check the FoS and remember that Chloiac was trying to make contact.
Lana wants to check Isis for signs of Chloe because she‘s a different person now. What’s the real reason?
Being a fool, Clark allows himself to be slashed when he should have blocked or dodged with little effort.
Just as the fight is about to get interesting the Legion arrives.
Imra: “We are the Legion.” Who cares?
Garth: “Where’s you cape?” Shelby buried it after Clark left it on the fence.
Rokk: “Your influence will reach far beyond this galaxy.” Great, at least Clark set the bar low enough.
At this point, I really, really, really wanted the Legion to take a closer look at Clark’s life style to notice that he couldn’t fly and was working for a Luthor owned Daily Planet.
The young heroes would then laugh their asses off and return to the future vowing to never let future generations know that Superman was such a pathetic loser.
Chloiac rocks, especially the way her voice seemed to echo in the darkened FoS at times.
With the McGuffian destroyed, Clark will have to murder Brainiac’s host.
Strangely, the Legion doesn’t know who Chloe Sullivan is. Ohhhhhhh, but I think perhaps they do.
Even the Legion can fly before Clark. Enough already!
“Chloe Sullivan doesn’t die, understand.” Damn straight. Well, not while Clark is alive at least. That’s not going to stick for long with Dooms around.
“So far he’s nothing like the man of Steel.” DUH. Obviously the history records are faked or inaccurate at best. At least Clark had the shame to cover up his mistakes.
Since Lana is the only person Clark listens to Imra approaches her. The fate of the world rests with Lana. How sad that it’s come to this. If Lana hadn’t been a total bitch for the last seven seasons, I might actually believe she had no ulterior motives and actually like her. Too late to know now.
Chloiac: “Kill me.” Well, Clark has been breaking her heart for years and did obliterate her most precious memories. The body is about the only thing left to ruin.
Lana: “I may have been gone a while, but the Clark Kent I knew would never doubt himself.” Lana must be thinking of Bizarro. That’s the only explanation here.
Chloiac decided to use human brain entertainment to download knowledge and render the planet’s population brainless drooling vegetables. Wait… hasn’t that device already been invented, except it didn’t retain any knowledge from its victims?
The whole moments between Clark stopping the Legion from sacrificing Chloe was well done. Even if the Legion’s Exorcism should have killed her.
The Chimmy is still on. Damnit. Chloe’s memories may be back, but not her spine, brains, self esteem or ambitions.
“Are we talking about your secret, Clark? What would make me forget that?” Clark’s self righteous stupidity and inability to come clean. Typical writers. The easiest way to deal with a conflict is to not acknowledge said conflict.
A baseball is an artifact the Legion could never find. Well, one ball down. Still not the right ones though. Imra should have checked Lana’s mind.
Another bloody Clana scene on the porch. Boo!
Yeah, Dooms, I feel the same way.
Wait a minute, is the FoS still corrupted? If so, can’t say I’m surprised dumbass didn’t bother to check to make sure Brainiac’s influence was fully gone.
That was one of the best episodes this season, considering what episodes came before though, I'm not sure what that's worth.
Okay, that’s enough of my sarcastic satire about this Zod forsaken show for now.
PolarB
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
Possibly a minor note, but am I the only one who has no recollection of this "Phantom Zone crystal" the Persuader was after and broke, or have I forgotten something?
Otherwise, a pretty cool episode. Adored Garth and his fanboyish ways. Rokk was also neat. Imra, eh. Lana was actually tolerable, aside from her line "The Clark I know would never doubt himself!" Uh, Lana, have you met Clark?
AM certainly rocked as Brainiac, and I too love the idea that this is where Brainiac 5 comes from. As for the memory wipe/memory loss/what Chloe does or doesn't remember, I doubt it'll be brought up again. I am glad, however, they made it clear that Chloe married Jimmy, and is happy to remain such.
And yay for Clark getting to be heroic and coming up with the plan that saves the day.
Darth Pipes
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
I'll give it an Above Average. It started off slow and erratic. Clark was an angry douche like he always is and that guy Garth needs to be on the receiving end of a savage beating. Can't they ever cast someone in the "hotheaded hero" role who isn't ****ing annoying on this show?
Still, it was very cool seeing the Legion in action and I'm glad Chloe got her memories back. But Clark should not be off the hook for mindraping her.
Evil Chloe was definitely the highlight of this episode.
CantThinkUpName
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
Possibly a minor note, but am I the only one who has no recollection of this "Phantom Zone crystal" the Persuader was after and broke, or have I forgotten something?
I don't remember it either, at least not a red Jolly Rancher looking thing. I do know in "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow" the Legion gave Superman a PZ protector.
I am glad, however, they made it clear that Chloe married Jimmy, and is happy to remain such.
Maybe I'm grasping at straws but just because she remembers it doesn't mean she was in control. Also, she said everything went blank after "Here Comes The Bride" which is pre-vows. I know I'm probably just reading into it though but sometimes with this show you take what you can get.
Adela1985
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
I just love that Clark changed Chloe's destiny. So the future the Legion knows no longer exist.
Plus all the meta that their destiny is not set in stone but writen by themselves makes it all okay.
Though I am left wondering where the hell Doomsday is all this time until he come back? I'm hoping the episodes the follow make mention of killing sprees going on to account for where Doomsday is at?
GoalKeeper1
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Possibly a minor note, but am I the only one who has no recollection of this "Phantom Zone crystal" the Persuader was after and broke, or have I forgotten something?
It was MM's crystal that Kara borrowed from him in Bloodline to get Faora out of Nois.
Hannibal King
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Possibly a minor note, but am I the only one who has no recollection of this "Phantom Zone crystal" the Persuader was after and broke, or have I forgotten something?
It's John Jones', used on both Dr. Hudson in
Labyrinth and Faora in
Bloodline. Of course, it's only supposed to be able to suck up Phantoms, but whatever.
And I'm just going to say it now. Allison Mack did pretty badly. She was trying way, way too hard to be evil. It was just a horrible acting choice. The whole 'jut your shoulders forward and walk with extreme swagger' and the facial expressions... just, way overplayed and cliche. She's got nothing on James Marsters, which it seems she didn't even try to emulate.
PolarB
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
I know I'm probably just reading into it though but sometimes with this show you take what you can get.
Understandable. I just meant that she seemed more than happy post-Brainiac removal to get herself to Star City to be with her "husband". Whether she was fully in control or not, she appears to have no regrets about marrying him.
I'm more curious how they're now going to justify her returning to Smallville for Bulletproof while Lois remains in Star City.It was MM's crystal that Kara borrowed from him in Bloodline to get Faora out of Nois.
So it is! Thank you. That had crossed my mind, but for some reason, I didn't remember it looking like that.
Firebunny
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
Rokk, Paper and Scissors were okay. I think I liked Chloiac the best. And Clark was pretty good until he douched out about telling Chloe that he stole her memories after she specifically said she would fight for them.
But oh, the chemistry between AM & SW and TW & AM. Can we have those three on screen at all times, half naked and throwing each other around? That would be good television.
And CW, you were kind enough to give us a month of Lois free episodes. Can you leave her out of the previouslies and the previews too, 'cause she's a drain on this show and she ain't missed when she's not around.
screamin
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
Dammit, I called it 3 weeks ago
here; that the Legion thought it would be all right to kill Chloe because she had left no trace on Superman's history or history in general, and so her death wouldn't affect the future. Which means that Chloe Sullivan either dies soon or at least leads such an insignificant life that she is not remembered at all. I hate being right about that kind of crap.
Yeah, I know, they threw us a bone by hinting at a different future with a name change, but I'm pretty sure they're not going there and Chloe's glorious destiny will be to be the martyr whose horrible death sets Superman off on his path. Aggh.
And what is WITH these repetitious plans of Zod to wipe out all mankind? What does a bully like Zod want with an empty world, with no one to boss around except a single human with mondo dark circles under her eyes, possessed by a bitchy computer which is always bent on pointing out how much smarter it is than you are? Where's the fun and desirability for Zod in that? What the hell kind of sense does that make?
On the plus side: Chloiac. Couldn't have been better.
Readster
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:25 pm
LONG LIVE THE LEGION! I would have liked more with the Persauder or bring in Emerald Empress instead. I think Geoff Johns had a little too much fun writing this episode. Especially with Garth's various lines and there was even mention of Light Lass, Brainiac 5 and the Subs. Loved it!
Manhattan Guy
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:25 pm
Damn, Doomsday looks nasty.
I kindof thought that Lana's hair was scarier-looking than Doomsday.
Adela1985
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:27 pm
thought it would be all right to kill Chloe because she had left no trace on Superman's history or history in general, and so her death wouldn't affect the future. Which means that Chloe Sullivan either dies soon or at least leads such an insignificant life that she is not remembered at all. I hate being right about that kind of crap.
See but that's the thing. Because Clark changed what was suppose to happen, he changed the future. So the future that the Legion came from no longer applies to Chloe anymore. Chloe Sullivan lives and that changes everything.
CantThinkUpName
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
Subs
A 'Sub' is an actual thing in Legion talk? Because when I heard it, I only thought 'submissive.'
Also, did anyone notice that the first page of Chloe's journal was Alicia? She's almost never brought up so when there's even a brief reference to her, I'm kind of glad.
jediknight
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:30 pm
And what is WITH these repetitious plans of Zod to wipe out all mankind? What does a bully like Zod want with an empty world, with no one to boss around except a single human with mondo dark circles under her eyes, possessed by a bitchy computer which is always bent on pointing out how much smarter it is than you are? Where's the fun and desirability for Zod in that? What the hell kind of sense does that make?
He wants to recreate Krypton, as he sees it. And in his eyes humanity is weak. It's all about his vision of the perfect Krypton.
I think Geoff Johns had a little too much fun writing this episode.
Which is just one of the many reasons Geoff Johns is awesome. He has fun writing, and loves it.
MissPiggyWiggy
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
Allison Mack *earned* an Emmy nom with her performance as Chloiac! Amazing!! The chemistry of Tom Welling, Allison Mack & Sam Witwer is that elusive *it* that creates epic Legends. Just Wow! Why the fcuk would PS3 want to waste AM as "PodChloeMrsOlson"?
Wasted valuable airtime on Nois, who wasn't needed & added nothing. Lana worship? Ridiculous.
wwg23
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
See but that's the thing. Because Clark changed what was suppose to happen, he changed the future. So the future that the Legion came from no longer applies to Chloe anymore. Chloe Sullivan lives and that changes everything.
Exactly. And Clark told Chloe he'd watch over her.
I found this episode very Chloisy. Clark is willing to let 8 billion die to save Chloe. Sounds like he's in love, imo.
PolarB
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:36 pm
A 'Sub' is an actual thing in Legion talk? Because when I heard it, I only thought 'submissive.'
From what little I've researched, there are "substitute" Legion members. Who are obviously not considered as good as the full fledged ones.
Chiriru
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:39 pm
And the wink to Chloe possibly not being remembered because of a change of name, or inadvertently inspiring Clark to fly, priceless. Fucking priceless.
Oh totally. It was the
direct parallel to descent. No one remembered Lionel due to Lex, then they raise the idea that no one remembers Chloe upon reading her articles, thinking she changed her name. Perfect turn around of Chloe swearing everyone will remember her cousins name turn around that if they do Chlois then they NEED to do it that way (rather than mind wipes.)
I am so confused with what Chloe remembers and what she should remember.
Honestly? I think the last thing she remembers is in Bloodline, no matter what she says about the marriage. IF she doesn't remember Abyss and she clearly doesn't, then there is no way she can remember Bride, plain and simple. Which is just the next shoe I'm sure they are waiting to drop in the Chimmy rollercoaster.
Great to see heroic Clark. Nice to see them showing that he is going to become the Supes that we all know and love. And being adamant about the first rule was nice. It was even better that Clark said that not killing anyone was rule number 1.
Clark was SO great. So great. I was reminded why I get annoyed with Legion a lot this episode, but Clark was FANTASTIC. And it was great to see that Clark won't let Chloe die (and neither will Lana, which was nice for once). It kicked off our yearly dead!Chloe spec but as usual, I think it also firmly kicked it in the teeth.
Possibly a minor note, but am I the only one who has no recollection of this "Phantom Zone crystal" the Persuader was after and broke, or have I forgotten something?
Not the only one. The only crystal that could have worked was maybe the one from Raya, but who knows where that is. So in a way they kind of set up a weird time loop there. But hey, now we know where Brainiac 5 comes from - which was a great little shout out that they amased and reprogrammed him.
Adored Garth and his fanboyish ways.
He was *adorable!!!!* So so adorable.
GreatIdea
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
What a great episode!
I think its the best of S8!
Trevacious Guy
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:41 pm
I think Geoff Johns had a little too much fun writing this episode. Especially with Garth's various lines and there was even mention of Light Lass, Brainiac 5 and the Subs. Loved it!
"Holy Sprock!"
Being a fool, Clark allows himself to be slashed when he should have blocked or dodged with little effort.
Maybe he thought it would shatter into a dozen CG pieces and to heck with protecting the secret from bucket-headed freaks.
I just meant that she seemed more than happy post-Brainiac removal to get herself to Star City to be with her "husband". Whether she was fully in control or not, she appears to have no regrets about marrying him.
It would've made more sense to me if she'd said, "Husband?!? What husband?"
A 'Sub' is an actual thing in Legion talk? Because when I heard it, I only thought 'submissive.'
"Sub" as in Substitute...from a group of teens with somewhat lamer superpowers who tried out for the Legion but didn't make the cut. They formed their own group with the aim of pinch-hitting in trouble spots where the Legion wasn't available, to prove they weren't useless. Legion of Substitute Heroes.
But, "submissive" works too, in Smallville, hahah. ;)
Ganymedeone
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:42 pm
I must say that so far as Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad go, they got the Legion pretty much perfect (I too had a Legion comic as one of my first as a kid, but with Kara, not Superboy, as the main El). I had to wonder, though, when the Legionnaires mentioned not knowing a Chloe Sullivan in the future (which is true for the comics) why Chloe Olsen wasn't considered as a possible simple explanation.
Doomsday is a great storyline, but I hate losing Davis' looks. I'm just shallow that way. I liked Lana this episode, but that's partially because I was happy not to see this show's Lois. However, the way the other characters propped up her 'destiny' ruined any good feeling after awhile. I seriously don't know where they're going with the whole Lana-is-historically-significant stuff, as that's not reflected in the comics at all. (And if it's that she had a kid in the intervening months, I hate when that's the only reason for a female character's disappearance. No one assumed that Pete had a kid, and he was away for long enough. I know it's different , but it still seems sexist.) Plus, Imra wouldn't need Lana to convince Clark of anything.Her power would be enough. Needless Lana propping.
Glad Chloe's okay. Wouldn't mind seeing the Legion kids again.
Tjack
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
The Legion of Substitute Heroes in the comics was the back-up squad for the Legion. It was made up of would be heroes who didn't get accepted for membership because their powers were too ineffective.
Depending on the writer it was either a plucky band who refused to give up, The Breakfast Club with powers, or just a bad joke.
Some people do still love them so they keep turning up.
Dai Hinoarashi
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
I just love that Clark changed Chloe's destiny. So the future the Legion knows no longer exist.
I don't think destiny was changed, just the method he used to save her.
Full Frontal
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:49 pm
See but that's the thing. Because Clark changed what was suppose to happen, he changed the future. So the future that the Legion came from no longer applies to Chloe anymore. Chloe Sullivan lives and that changes everything.
Not necessarily. Keep in mind why the legion stayed behind after defeating The Persuader. It was only after they discovered that the crystal had been smashed. In their history books Kal-El was able to defeat Brainiac on his own with the crystal without killing the host so in their original timeline Chloe would have survived. What I'm trying to say is that in their history Chloe didn't die the first time around in the Brainiac encounter because the crystal was still intact (because the Persuader didn't even exist yet to travel back in time).
However, that being said I tipped a little bit back on my scale of thinking SV might actually pull Chlois. Having no history of Chloe is better for it than if they had heard of her in the future. It makes sense that if Chlois happens her birth name wouldn't survive.
screamin
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
See but that's the thing. Because Clark changed what was suppose to happen, he changed the future. So the future that the Legion came from no longer applies to Chloe anymore. Chloe Sullivan lives and that changes everything.
That assumes that Clark, in the original timeline, DID kill Chloe without encouragement from the Legion. Which seems odd, to say the least.
He wants to recreate Krypton, as he sees it. And in his eyes humanity is weak. It's all about his vision of the perfect Krypton.
Granted, humans are weak. But doesn't General "Kneel Before Zod" LIKE weak (the better to bully)? Who would he get to kneel before him if he wiped out humanity entirely? Damn writers, who can't think of any other threat than to wipe out ALL humanity every time.
Oh, forgot to add: I thought Lightning Lad was a dick.
mjgchick
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:57 pm
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Chloe has her memory back of Clark's secret? That makes no sense at all to why they mind wiped it in the first place unless its drama for CHlark tbh. But Yeah Chloe does die without being mention. I had a theory that everyone who knew Chloe was high as a kite and she never existed
Also those Legion dudes should get a spin off. CW think for once and get this pilot done. If you need a script writer I'm not doing anything at the moment.
newfoundma
Jan 15, 2009 @ 9:58 pm
Garth is normally my favorite of the original Leonaires, but he irked me tonight. Possibly the actor, or maybe the annoying "cute" dialouge. Johns can write a good comic, but his dialouge read out loud is painful.
On the plus side, DoomsDavis' naked torso should get a spin-off.
Sue Denim
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:01 pm
In all honesty, I got the sensation that when Saturn Girl aka Irma was telling Lana to convince Clark to kill, that Irma's Lana is our Chloe. Chloe's the character that's gone through some serious sacrifice for Clark. Chloe's the only one that has a shot of ever convincing Clark to kill anyone.
I did like Lana's quote of the night. It's something I've been trying to say for a long time about destiny.
"Our destiny's not written in some book in the future, we write it ourselves, everyday."
The future is an active choice. It's not something that fate determines for you. It's the result of everyday decisions that determine character. You can foresee what it might be, by examining the events of the past. Whatever the future holds for Clark, it will be the result of proactiveness. He's not suppose to be a passive Supes. And right now, he stood up to the idea of killing Chloe. He actively told LoSH to figure out a different way to stop Brainiac. I can't even tell you how giddy I am about what this might mean for Chlark. Even Brainiac, an unemotional super computer thought to chose Chloe over Lana. Imagine what Clark might choose if he acted on his heart.
Loved this episode soo much. Thank you Geoff Johns.
Also, I quite enjoyed the hint of S1 Clark when he gave Lana, "Can you believe it? I'll be known throughouth the galaxy" shrug/smirk.
This is the benchmark of season eight. Everyone's performance was brilliant.
Full Frontal
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:04 pm
Just curious. Did anyone else get the distinct impression that Clark/Supes is not alive in the 31st century?
DigiKing
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:06 pm
Just curious. Did anyone else get the distinct impression that Clark/Supes is not alive in the 31st century?
Me. I did. They definitely talked about him as if he was a legend that they couldn't just go up to and speak to. It may be that there are so many shape-shifters around at that point that such a thing would be considered dangerous, but an easier explanation is that Clark does in fact fade out after a while.
PolarB
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:07 pm
Did anyone else get the distinct impression that Clark/Supes is not alive in the 31st century?
Yep. The Legion said they only knew of him through history books.
nwp01
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
Dammit, I called it 3 weeks ago here; that the Legion thought it would be all right to kill Chloe because she had left no trace on Superman's history or history in general, and so her death wouldn't affect the future. Which means that Chloe Sullivan either dies soon or at least leads such an insignificant life that she is not remembered at all. I hate being right about that kind of crap.
Screamin my take on this is that it's too late for PS3 to go there. When I say "there" I mean making it so that Chloe's life was so insignificant that she is not remembered or her death won't affect the future. If PS3 wanted to go there, they should have killed Chloe after season 1. No matter how much ICONS OF ICONIC DENSITY they push, Chloe has *already* had an impact on Clark's journey to Superman, and it has been stated on the show (so I guess it's cannon?) that her learning Clark's secret etc has helped her make an impact on the world. So if PS3 were really going that route about her insignificance, the only thing that would work, IMO is Jor-El going on a very *massive* mind whipe...which is silly for them to do.
I had a theory that everyone who knew Chloe was high as a kite and she never existed
This would be an interesting alternative though. When the cast members come back to reality, we see that for 8 years, they were in a room smoking something serious. :)
cambridgeguy
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:22 pm
Did anyone else get the distinct impression that Clark/Supes is not alive in the 31st century?
Didn't this show already establish that Clark never dies? Just because he's not around doesn't mean that he's dead, just that he flew off to parts unknown.
Oh, and just because Chloe isn't remembered in the future doesn't make her life insignificant: it just means that she doesn't get much credit. Now, either Chloe is egotistical and would be horribly offended by this or she'd completely ignore it because she doesn't need the vindication of future generations to prove that she made a positive impact on arguably the most influential person of all time.
steve91199
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:22 pm
Do they not have proper grooming in the far future? Saturn Girl's hair looked dirty, Lightning Lad was a mess (was that a dye job?), and Cosmic Boy was a greasy-looking mess with a bad sleazetee.
The acting also wasn't too hot.
I have a weakness for the old school Legion, so this weak, whiny bunch, and the overly sarcastic, bad sidekick, geeky version of Lightning Lad put me off.
Denebola
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:30 pm
In all honesty, I got the sensation that when Saturn Girl aka Irma was telling Lana to convince Clark to kill, that Irma's Lana is our Chloe. Chloe's the character that's gone through some serious sacrifice for Clark. Chloe's the only one that has a shot of every convincing Clark to kill anyone.
See, I kind of liked that. Over the hiatus I went ahead and did some research on the Legion, and Imra seems like one cool customer. She's kind of manipulative and sneaky. I wouldn't put it passed her to just say what Lana wanted to hear in order to accomplish what she believed needed to be done. But since we don't really get much characterization for Saturn Girl (or the others), that could just be one of those "easter eggs" for fans who knew about that side of Imra's personality. Also, I kept waiting for someone to slip and call Lana "The Insect Queen!" but it never happened. Aww...
I love it when Chloe goes evil, and I love AM, but her Brainiac left me a teensy bit disappointed. She had the same walk as Rush!Chloe as opposed to JM!Brainiac. But I loved that Brainac laid it for for Clark that the reason he picked Chloe was because he knew Clark would never hurt her. WE knew it, Brainiac knew it, but I'm glad that Clark knows it too. It's nice to perceive a relationship on the show as an audience member in the same way that the characters in the show do, for once.
Worse than
Justice, better than anything else in Season 8 thus far.
*Edited because how in the hell did I confuse
Justice for
Action...
Paul Servo
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:31 pm
The Legion of Substitute Heroes in the comics was the back-up squad for the Legion. It was made up of would be heroes who didn't get accepted for membership because their powers were too ineffective.
Don't criticize Stone Boy like that! *L*
Imra is actually Garth's husband in cannon (well one of the Legion's cannon) so she's not a lesbian (although she did give what could be the gayest look of the episode. But that's a tie with Garth looking at Clark).
Geoff Johns did a great job with the script by putting references to Legion cannon (the above mentioned "subs," Lightning Lass, Braniac 5) without making those that don't know wonder what is going on. Also, given how he was able to bring Hal Jorden back and explain Parallex and make it make sense, I knew he'd be the one to get Chloe's memories back and have her remember Clark has powers.
In regards to Chloe not being in the history books and her not being cannon, there was plans to bring her into the books, and I think Johns was one of the ones that wanted it.
One more thing, can anyone explain why I thought Alison Mack looked really hot when she was all pale and such as Chloeiac?
alexias
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:32 pm
I'm a little confused. Didn't Chloiac say that Davis needed to be in his cocoon for twelve days in order to fully become Doomsday?
That wasn't 12 hours, was it?
So does that mean, while he emerged as Doomsday, Davis isn't gone?
Basically, what I'm getting at here people is this: am I still gonna be seeing naked Sam Witwer on my screen??
Please tell me yes.
Massena1
Jan 15, 2009 @ 10:32 pm
I am GRATEFUL for this episode. I've had a ridiculous amount of sad real life news recently so this feel good episode couldn't have come at a better time. I smiled so much and I haven't had anything to smile about in weeks. THANK YOU SHOW! GOOD JOB! I thought it was good storytelling. The love will overflow from me. I'm going to have to break it down in parts. But, the nitpicks first.
If Chloe doesn't remember not knowing Clark's secret, then she doesn't remember what she experienced after "Abyss" correctly otherwise she would be aware of her conversations with Clark about Clark being normal and unable to do stuff like setting up tables and their dance conversation etc. NONE of that makes sense if she remembers things correctly. So, if she doesn't remember no longer knowing Clark's secret, then what the heck was she talking about not remembering anything after "here comes the bride?"
Seriously, show, you have to give more of an explanation than that. Chlark need to have a real conversation about that memory wipe business. I will however, say I caught that Chloe got her cookies back in the end. Chiri had previously linked me to a "Matrix" symbolism site, I get it. Cookies = computer cookies = memories. Clark buying girl scout cookies twice a year = Clark will take Chloe's, the girl scout's memories twice this year. Don't know how I feel about that, but I'm on a high tonight so I'm okay with it because of NAME CHANGE!!!!
Chloe references her husband? Show, you know that sucks and I know you know that sucks. I'll leave it at that out of sheer good will for NAME CHANGE!!!!!
Now, you better get this right and the name change better be to the right one - the world famous reporter at the Daily Planet or I withdraw all the good will, but tonight I will dare to dream and have faith in you show. Don't disappoint.
AM as Chloiac was amazing. SW, TW and KK were excellent as well and all of the actors clearly tried to give nuance to their performances tonight. No phoning it in here and given how long TW, AM and KK have been at it, that is nice to see.
Geoff Johns wrote a nicely paced episode. I loved the look of the episode so kudos to the director, Glen Winter. The lighting was especially fantastic in the FOS scenes. Gorgeous and eery in a major motion picture way. Smallville has problems, but it usually looks beautiful and it did tonight.
I though the guest actors did a good job. I won't claim that I'm dying for them to return or anything, but they didn't detract from the story and sometimes guest actors do, so a solid B for them.
I plan to rewatch to comment about lines and symbolism and stuff. But, my first impression was YES! YES! YES! A solid A episode imo. I'm glad I watched. I haven't been able to say that in a long time.