Anyone else watch this show on TLC? These children in beauty pageants never stops being weird/disturbing to me. Why is it necessary to put all that makeup on a 4 year old? Why put so much emphasis on their looks and body at such an early age?

I was amused by the one little girl who wanted to buy a cow if she won.

I'm so glad someone started this thread! That was like a real-life Little Miss Sunshine, from the road trips in the minivan right down to the chubby competitor (and some of those dance moves were very LMS too).

Look on the "Baby Beauty Pageants" thread on page 7 for additional snark on this show!

Very true about the LMS parallels.

One thing I always notice about these shows: the moms are almost never attractive. It's like they are using their daughters to make up for their lost beauty (if they ever had it).

I'm shocked, abhorred and disgusted, yet drawn in like a 5 car pile up on the opposite side of I-95 during rush hour to these types of shows. I'll echo the LMS-esque feel of this show, my friend swears it's simply on to lighten the mood of the other baby beauty pagent shows.

And they are almost always overweight!

I am always stunned at how young these pageants start too. You are always hearing so and so has been competing since she was 10 months old! Pray tell, how does a baby "compete?" And to the mothers who say it teaches them stage presence and confidence, are those really skills that will be learned at such a young age?
And the money that is spent! I didn't catch this today but saw it the first time around. IIRC One family had 2 kids and were living in a small apartment. Didn't look like they were very well off either. Don't you think the thousands you spent on travel, makeup, hair, clothes etc could have gone to a better use?

The part where Brianna Sullivan was all zombie-like was creepy.
There's a swimsuit competition "because kids are associated with fun and water"? Uh, ok. Is this competition taking place poolside? No.

I noticed more ethnic diversity than usual in this show, and I'm not sure whether to be pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised.

I liked the ethnic diversity too, it shows that there are senseless people everywhere. I thought that pageants were actually money suckers because all that tacky actually costs a lot. I can't believe how they pose with the fan of 20's.

It was so creepy watching this tonight. Seeing the little girls shake their buts and hips in suggestive was makes me sick. What's with all the makeup? Made them look like crossdressers.

Loved the $900 entry fee, so you could win a top prize of $1,000.

This show is premiering as a new series on TLC on January 27... some info on it here, as well as a sneak preview of the series premiere here.

Someone at TLC loves me and wants me to be happy...

The ads for this show creeped me out so much that I will never watch it. Don'y any of these people worry that sexualizing these babies may have contributed to one of them being found abused and murdered in her own home?

Yuck...

I don't know anyone personally who was on the pagent circuit - just one woman from my Mom's club who gave mucho bucks to sign her daughters up for a pagent - and when all of the folks got to the hotel on showday there was no pagent - and no money back either. Does anyone have any personal experience to say that this chicanery doesn't mess the girls up any worse than, say, playing with Barbies? Because then I would watch it to snark on the delustional parents.

My understanding from watching other shows about kiddie pageants is that at the current time (after Jon Benet's murder) that only relatives of the participants are allowed to watch and of course the many vendors and coaches or other support staff. I don't think anyone that isn't connected is allowed, but that doesn't stop every pervert on the planet from drooling over the kids online or from locating where they live with a little research.

At least until Authentic Entertainment came along with their cameras and microphones... and TLC decided to purchase the project and air it. I see TLC is continuing its classy tradition of child exploitation.

As a former pageant kid, I can say that they can be a great, fun experience. I got started because I was a shy kid and someone suggested it to my mom to help me come out of my shell a little bit. After we did a few smaller ones, I decided it was fun and continued to compete. I say "we" because it was great mother/daughter bonding time. I was lucky in that my parents weren't delusional and my life didn't revolve around pageants. I did dance, gymnastics, soccer, basketball, etc. Pageants were just another hobby. The parents that come on these show usually are the crazy ones, but I can assure you that they aren't all like that. Yes, I had glitzy clothes, the hair/makeup, the fake tans, the retouched pictures, etc. but I knew that that was for pageants and I didn't need it to be beautiful. It's frustrating at times to see posters talk about how all pageant girls probably become trashy high school dropouts, get knocked up, and then work a pole for the rest of their lives. That's nothing like the path I've taken (I'm a happy, healthy, well-adjusted, former D-1 athlete, med student, etc.) and, looking back, I think some of the lessons I learned from pageants helped to get me where I am today.

So don't feel bad, SNARK!!

You know, its sad but true. There's an awful lot of parents whoring their kids to The Learning Channel these days.

Hard to imagine that a kid with that many experiences really needs to add on pageant work to overcome shyness. I'm glad it is remembered as a positive experience for you but claims that pageants are needed to bring shy kids out of their shell never ring true to me.

I was/am a pageant mom and the reason I say was is because when my child was younger she was in them regularly BUT I never put fake hair on my child, fake teeth, tan, etc. And she won without all that. Now she is older and more involved in school activities, theatre, dance, etc but she continues to do local pageants and scholarship pageants that include scholastic scores, community service, and the like. She does credit pageants with helping her deal with things like stage fright, public speaking, and fear of an audience. She was used to it at an early age and was never bothered by it at recitals and auditions whereas many froze on stage.

As to the only allowing parents and relatives in that is such bull. They can say that all they want to, but even immediately following the death of Jon Benet Ramsey anyone who had the five-thirty five dollars for a door badge was allowed in the ballroom and they still are. Most of these circuit directors could care less about anything but the money they can bring in. They do not ask who you have competing, if you have anyone competing, etc. They just tell you how much it is to get in, take your money and turn to the next person in line.

Make-up and young girls

Very interesting....

Watching this show again, and I just noticed that one of the pageant moms said she had already started her daughter on shaving her legs--and the little girl isn't even close to puberty. That makes me really sad. Part of me died the day I started shaving my legs. I realize that not all women feel that way, but it's one of those things where once you start it's a life-long battle. And to start that so young! The girl's tights and dresses weren't enough to cover it up?

The first time I watched this it was on Youtube, so I was glad to see it on TV whereI could make more things out. For example I didn't get that the African American girls' parents were both women! That's an interesting omission--on a scratchy Youtube screen, I thought the one wearing the tuxedo was a guy.

Anyway, I couldn't help but thinking that no way were the pageant directors going to let a girl in a homemade dress, lovely though it was, win the pageant. And the AM Mom did their makeup and hair, too. These pagaents have too many bottom feeders feeding off the pageant (gown stores, makeup, flippers, hairstylists). I once heard from some guy who was into professional dog shows say that if you don't pay to have one of the professional show handlers show your dog, you weren't winning. The right hand washes the left.

I finally caught one of the repeats. I'm sorry to the pageant people, but are these parents just dumb or stage struck? The entry fee is $900 or close to it and the top prize is $1000. Then there's all the preparation that has to be thousands of dollars. You basically torture the kid with hair, makeup, tanning, pedicures, flippers, hair pieces (not to mention paying for it all) bascially so a child can parade on a stage in front of other kids and parents and maybe take home a cheap trophy. It sounds like the only smart person in the room (and she isn't too bright either) is the pageant director who is making money from this along with the other support crew of dress makers, etc. The part where the pageant director is encouraging the kids to strut their stuff and then turns around and says it's the media sexualizing these kids? Surely she doesn't think most people believe that. I'd much rather put the kids in soccer for a couple hundred dollars for entry, shoes, and uniform for an entire season and have them out exercising rather than being treated like hothouse "princesses." It was very, very financially unsound and creepy to me.

Mr. Dumbpants and I were laughing at that for quite awhile afterward. Then on top of that, apparently there is a fee just to watch, travel, and all of the glittery stuff. I would imagine that some of those families spent upwards of $5000 just for this one, single pageant.

They can say, "Oh, well my daughter just loves it." No shit. Little girls like to play dress up. They could save a lot of time and money by going to some second hand dress shop and buying a bunch of dresses that their daughter and her friends can play with.

I know I shouldn't judge (but I'm going to anyway), but a lot of these people don't look like they make the kind of salary necessary to keep competing. How is this possible? I can't imagine having to suddenly drop a few grand just to play dress up for a day.

I admit that I'm biased. That's so very true that many of these pageant parents (mothers) look like the money could be spent to much greater advantage somewhere else. I knew a mother and grandmother who had the sole child/grandchild in pageants. They were living off grandma's pension and daughter didn't work except to "date." They would drop hundreds on one outfit - custom made. The kid was in dance classes three or four afternoons a week, voice, drama, and who knows what else. I used to work with the seamstress who made a lot of her outfits. She hated the fussy handwork and I'd sit and spangle, glitter, crystal, sequin, etc the outfits for her not just for the pageant kid but even Olympic skaters. I usually wonder how much the parents are in debt just for pageant related expenses and have to think that very few if any of them ever make the money back in winnings and scholarships. I especially saw the stress on the kids in this episode and one even said I made the money back (entry fee). What kind of pressure is that to put on a little kid?

Is it just me or was there editing in last nights replay? I didn't see Lexi's meltdown in the spray tan booth. Maybe I missed it though. There was an interview with a male judge that I don't remember from before too. (last name Flores..hmmm)

No, I saw it. They gave her a few instructions (hands up / down/ back / forwards/ etc). and suddenly that stuff hit her. Apparentally no one told her she was going to be sprayed with goop. She started screaming and they took her out of there.

Fun, fun, fun.

I watched this show last night with my ultra-conservative mom. She was horrified at everything from the tanning, the hair pieces, the make-up, the flippers, and the dance routines that included some overtly sexual hip thrust movements. I've watched plenty of these kinds of shows before, so nothing really surprised me; the one thing we both agreed on is that this particular documentary was interested in showcasing the most extreme kinds of pageant moms, many of whom live vicariously though their kids (if I recall correctly, the lesbian mom had a nice figure and always had her own hair and make-up done, but the rest were quite overweight and didn't put much effort into doing their own hair and make-up; also, none of the pageant moms ever mentioned her own career, and except for the lesbian couple, the other moms seemed to be going to pageants solo).

I agree that pageants can have positive benefits that translate into the non-pageant world: more confidence in public, maybe better social skills/graces as the girls grow older, etc. But the elaborate dresses, make-up, hair, flippers, talent lessons, etc., not to mention pageant entry fees and transportation costs, are investments that can't be reimbursed; the investment's only worth it if the girl and her family equally enjoy the experience and the time they spend together. At such a young age, the girls probably can't make their own decisions about pageants, especially when mommy (or daddy, or grandma) gets such a thrill out of the experience.

This show also prompted me to think about child pageants as compared to other child hobbies that parents can become committed to in varying degrees. How different is the life of one of these girls from the life of a kid who aspires to be an Olympic figure skater or gymnast? Being a professional-caliber athlete at a young age requires many, many sacrifices - the time and costs of daily practice, coaches, maybe tutors, maybe injury rehabilitation, strict discipline over diet and exercise, etc. I've heard of young Olympic athletes' parents going into debt, putting a second mortgage on their house, and even quitting their jobs to be able to have the time and finances to support their kid. And all for what? Very few end up in the Olympics/at the top of their given sports - for every Nastia Liukin or Sarah Hughes who gets millions in endorsements, there might be 10,000 girls who never got there, and millions of dollars invested in their careers. Sure athletics promotes a healthy lifestyle, and these kids are probably pretty well-socialized and do well under pressure situations (hopefully), but how many slots are out there for professional adult gymnasts or figure skaters?

(And for every extreme pageant mom and daughter, there are probably 1,000 moms and daughters who do pageants only occasionally, moderate their spending, and have a great time. And likewise, plenty of kids who pursue sports, drama, acting, singing, dancing, cheerleading, etc. with full parental support, and get great stuff out of the experience like confidence, good teamwork skills, etc.)

Thanks PolkaDotty I guess I missed it, poor baby.

I'm confused about how the big time winner is determined. They do the runner ups and then there are 2 girls left with one being the Queen for the group. She gets $1000, crown and trophy and the other girl goes to the grand supreme poohbah and one girl gets that. What do the other girls in that group get?

What, exactly, was supposed to be the "talent" in the "talent" portion of the pageant? I didn't see anything that really qualified as talent, but did see a whole lot of gushing on the part of several of the parents about how talented their daughters were. What a skewed perception these girls are going to have of their own skills and abilities (or lack thereof) later in life. This just really feeds the sense of entitlement that the younger generations have.

The talent seemed to consist of dancing or lip-synching to pre-recorded music (LMS!!). Is this an editing issue, or is this the extent of talent at these events? I am surprised it was all this strange quasi-dancing. Do any girls sing, or play instruments, or perform a dramatic monologue (since someone upthread referred to money spent on dancing lessons, singing lessons, etc.)

I was also surprised to see the lesbian couple buying into this, since the vast majority of lesbians are all about self-empowerment for women. Placing the lion's share of your self esteem in your looks does not seem to be very empowering.

I think the difference is that children who do sports, music, ballet, etc., are actually accomplishing something. They have mastered (or attempted to) an art or a skill requiring dedication, perserverance, and sacrifice. There are abuses in those families, too, but hopefully the children come away learning something they wouldn't have without all those hours of practice.

The children on this show seem to be directed by their mothers [with $ I guess from the fathers?] and have to be forced to smile. (I think it was the fake smiles that bothered me most. You can tell when a child is happy, and when they are showing off their "flippers.") I'm actually glad that that little girl (Brionne?) decided not to smile, move, or cooperate in any way. Good for her. She's got spunk. (And I like spunk!)



Let me introduce you to my friend Ponzi, and his scheme. Every girl gets a trophy. You are a runner-up, or a winner, but if you are left standing after the winner is announced, you get to move up to another class and compete there. Even if you don't win there, Mommy is very, very proud of you but you have to work harder next week. If you are a very good girl, it seems, you get a cow.

Not necessarily that different if they have a crazy parent. There are plenty of crazy parents in those sports.

One substantive difference might be that at least in sports, there is SOME emphasis on mastering truly difficult skills that take years to achieve. Pageant moms might argue with me, but I say there's a huge difference in the character-building potential of mastering the perfect pageant turn and the 1000+ falls on the ice it takes to get your triple Lutz. There's plenty of pressure to be skinny, early sexualization, etc., but there's also real accomplishment. To me, it's far less sick to have the child's looks and stage presence as a secondary component of the competition as opposed to those things being the entire point of the exercise.

One big difference is the pageant world is to make money for the pageant managers and the support personnel. Training for Olympic sports is usually not in it to make a ton of money for the training facility without much return to the athlete. You can always find another club or gym for training. Plus those places do not encourage (usually) the kids without talent to continue. They keep you from moving up or suggest to parents to go find another sport or activity. The pageant world actually encourages the reverse by seeing that everyone gets a trophy. The pageant manager in the first special gave me the creeps. Most of what she said was spin to justify her business. I agree most of the moms seem to be living through their children. Some even slip into "I" mode and most say we instead of she. The pressure on those little kids to perform and win just seems wrong to me.

It is unbelievable how much money is spent for these pageants, with little to no return on the investment. The dresses alone can cost hundreds of dollars even for the teeny sizes.

I don't think you're a failure in those pursuits if you don't achieve an Olympic medal. I know plenty of people who paid their way through college and/or achieved success at some other level in a sport or other pursuit like music, acting, dance, etc. There are plenty of opportunties for legitimate success or even careers without going to the Olympics. I doubt even many Olympic athletes are in it for the money or endorsements-look at all the people who play sports that don't even get televised every four years, but do it anyway for the competition and sense of achievement. Also, I'd be a whole lot prouder to list- bronze medalist, 1994 Olympics-curling, than to list Ultimate Grand Supreme Miss Pretty Princess 1984 on a resume. And despite the often-cited Miss America system, I bet there are a lot fewer pageant kids that earn legitimate "scholarships" than child athletes.

The "skills" you learn as a pageant kid don't exactly translate well to the real world, no matter what blather about poise and self esteem the pageant people spew. Want a career in modeling? Try walking your spray tan and flippers into Elite, Ford, IMG or any other model agency and doing your best pro-am walk, and try not to get laughed out of the building. Take your lip sync routine, off key yodeling or bad dancing "talent" to a conservatory or legitimate performing arts program at a University and see how things go there. Don't hold your breath waiting for that scholarship check. And for all the talk of poise and self esteem I'm still waiting to see a pageant kid or parent exhibit anything that looks like sportsmanship or social skills at one of these events- it looks to me like hissyfits, shit talking your competiton, and pouting are in great supply.

Are there crazy parents in both categories that push their kids inappropriately? Sure. Does that legitimize kiddie pageants? Nope. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of the prizes at these "competitions" go to the person who spent the most money with the preferred vendors who support the pageants. In this show alone, how many moms, judges, pageant directors admitted that you won't win without the right clothes/teeth/hair/etc.- none of which has anything to do with the child sporting them? And if you're so bad at math that you think it makes sense to spend $900 to win a chance at a $1000 prize, you're better off spending quality time with your kid scratching off instant lottery tickets or playing bingo down at the fire hall.

Yikes. I found the website. It's not any prettier than the poor little contestants. Any English majors out there? Here's a fun activity: choose any page from this site, grab your red marker, and go to town! http://www.universalroyalty.com

Here's a brief excerpt:

With 20 years Pageant experience, I started Universal Royalty in 1995. I wanted my pageant to be a Positive Learning Experience for contestants to learn the meaning of Competition, Positive Self Confidence & Striving To Be The Very Best.

No, I did not make that up. I wish I had. Pray for our chidren.

Good lord. I'm an English major, and reading that made me want to cry.

Back away from the Caps Lock...

I can sort of break some of the pageant madness down having been down that road. First entry fees. Anyone who will pay $900.00 in entry fee when the biggest prize is $1000.00 is a damn fool. But, that is how these directors make their money. Now entry fee alone isn't 900.00, it can be anywhere from 35.00-250.00 depending upon whether it is a prelim, semi-national, or national. Then you add in talent entry, pro-am entry, swimwear entry, photogenic, best dressed, prettiest smile, best hair, etc. You cannot compete for the Ultimate Grand Supreme however if you do not enter every optional there is, thus you end up with a 900.00 entry fee. Now, you win Ultimate Grand Supreme so you have come out 100.00 to the good-NOT. Those who compete in Nationals and on a regular basis will pay around two grand for a dress that will be worn maybe three times before being re-sold for at minimum 1900.00, sometimes because their daughter has "won" in this dress or because it has won "best dressed" three times they will ask for 2500.00 for a dress they paid 2000.00 for. But that extra 500.00 they get is turned around and put in the new dress that is being made for their daughter. Swim suits are not bought from Target. They are custom made and generally for nationals can run anywhere from 250-500.00 depending on just how gaudy you want it to look. A pro-am/western wear costume, like swimwear usually run about 500.00 because in order to win you must look like a craft store has puked on you. Photos-now that is a real money maker right there. You pay 250.00 sitting fee, that is just to get your picture taken. Then you pay an additional 100-175 for hair and makeup for said photos. You usually get three different looks. The actual pictures usually end up costing about 1500.00 after all the retouching and making a kid look like a freak. Now we cannot forget those wonderful pageant coaches who charge at minimum 75.00 per hour, and you usually have to travel for up to an hour one way to get to them. Some kids go once a week, some once a month. Usually you don't get the actual coach rather one of their "junior" coaches who is around fifteen years old but such a star! This is all in preperation for the big day. It's pageant day! Now you have to get to the hotel, which means travel (gas, food) and then hotel costs. Most of the "names" have someone do their hair and makeup for them which is about 350.00, this is a hair do and makeup for each event if you are lucky! The "vendors" are the ones making the killings, the dress/swimsuit/costume makers, the hair/makeup people who are NOT licensed cosmetologists by the way, the photographers, and the coaches. They usually have kids who compete and many times if a coach can bring so many girls to a pageant, they are promised wins. If you make dresses and my daughter needs a new one and look I just happen to be a director, we can trade. Your kid gets a win and I get a new dress for my kid.

The Ultimate Grand Supreme is the girl with the highest score in the whole pageant. Unless a director double crowns, she will not win her age group or the side awards. Some pageants do give every contestant a trophy, some don't. But many directors require the contestants to bring gifts to be given to outgoing royalty which is such bull because you'd think that would be the director's job. Some even require two gifts, one for outgoing and one for the newly crowned.

Now, this is all the glitz kiddie circuit pageants. You also have natural or scholastic pageants where makeup (or age appropriate makeup for 12 and up) is not allowed, fake hair, fake teeth, fake tans, etc are not allowed. They wear more flower girl style dresses for younger girls and the teen and up wear age appropriate formal gowns. The talent consists of real talent not pro-am bullcrap. They must have platforms and present community service information as well as scholastic records. These winners represent the system all year through events, parades, luncheons, etc and is a beginning for those interested in programs like America's Junior Miss, Miss America Organization, etc. These can be costly but nothing near glitz and you do see more benefits in the forms of scholarships, savings bonds, possible placement with fine arts schools, etc.

So there ya have it from one who is guilty of putting her child in glitz but now daughter does the scholastic type because the benefits far outweigh the cost. Also, pageants can be like anything else. You have sports obsessed parents, dance obsessed, cheer obsessed, and they are just as scary, cruel, and expensive as pageants.

Thanks, Trojangirldance. I wondered why the toddlers were bearing gifts!

Thanks for the rundown! I am obsessed with these shows. My daughter is now 4, almost 5, and my husband made me turn this show off because she was getting way too interested and wanted to know when she got to wear the pretty dresses and dance on stage. The flippers, spray tan, and hip shaking freak-me-out, but I would like to try the flower girl style pageants. She is such a clown. I thought precosious kids were only on sitcoms, until she got to this age. Do you have a starting point to find information on the natural pageants? I've tried to look them up, but I got caught up in the horror of photoshop baby pics, so I gave up. I live in the South, so I know they're around here somewhere.

A pro-am/western wear costume, like swimwear usually run about 500.00 because in order to win you must look like a craft store has puked on you.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Sorry MiMiCubed LOL. For natural pageants try American Co-Ed in a google search. Also a good place to start for those a local pageants. I'm in the south too and we have things like Petite Miss/Little Miss/Teen Miss (insert name of town or community here). Depending on your state, they might have Forestry pageants you can google those as well. Sometimes festivals will have little pageants. In our area we have Miss Chitterling (I kid you not), Miss Catfish, Miss Tomato Festival, Miss Watermelon. Those are usually good ones to start out on just for a good time and not having to invest your child's college funds LOL.

On most of these shows, the pageant families are not the richest of folks. Yet they spend thousands of dollars and countless hours on their child's hobby. I would like TLC to do a show where they really show how a family pays for all this crap. As loony tunes as I think it all is and as bas as I feel for the little ones, I am fascinated by the whole thing.

Did this show have a new episode about a girl from England or was that a different special?

That was a different special, "Pre-Teen Beauty Queen." Maybe we should just merge these all into one gigantic kiddie beauty pageant thread. WE is starting a show called "Little Miss Perfect" in February, that looks like it will be an actual series instead of a special.

Different special, but taking place at the same beauty pageant as the epi of Toddlers and Tiaras.

Hello Visa and Mastercard!

When I was the one "puking a craft store" on the dresses and costumes, I charged the seamstress $20 an hour for the easy and simple and up to $100 an hour for the nasty really solidly puked on ones. It's no fun attaching all that trash to an outfit. But hey, it helped pay my kids dance class and college bills. For the record, no child of mine ever wore one of those creations and did dance class for exercise and fun. Competitive dance is another whole range of gussied up costumes that I also sequined and glittered. After looking at these shows I'm wondering if I should find a new seamstress and get back into making some money off those outfits again. Another shocking thing to me about this pageant was the babies who had to be carried being in it. What on earth can justify infants in a beauty pageant?

Moms who haven't lost their baby weight yet, or are far removed from properly looking after themselves, seeking superficial gratification from their babies. Or just moms who think their babies are beautiful (what mom doesn't?) seeking other avenues outside of family, friends, and the supermarket crowd to ooooh and aaaah over the infant.

I'm not trying to make sweeping assumptions here - I'm sure there are plenty of pageant moms who take good care of themselves - but what's with so many (hardcore) pageant moms spending thousands of dollars on glamorizing their daughters' physical appearances, yet paying so little attention to themselves? I'm talking to you, oh 30-something pageant mom of the baggy t-shirt and stretch jeans, no make-up, hair in some short curly mop, often overweight or obese. Why not spend ten minutes in the morning doing your hair, putting on whatever make-up to enhance your natural features, and taking a jog on the treadmill/yoga/walking with friends around the neighborhood a few times a week? Otherwise, let's start a petition for a special What Not to Wear: Pageant mom edition (and put the daughters on the show too!).