Advice for Grace Van Pelt: Get unscented shower gel and shampoo.

Maybe I just watch too much TV now, but I saw almost all the "twists" coming. Bosco and his team dying not a surprise. He's one of the most expendable important character and the random sandwich stealing scene in this ep seemed mostly like a last-ditch attempt to get the audience to like him because he hasn't been that sympathetic in previous eps (I don't care that he died and the sandwich stealing scene actually made me care even less, because stealing people's food is a douche move).

As soon as the secretary got a name and was so obviously introduced last episode (handing Bosco the file and then standing around for an extended period of time to show the viewer "Look! I exist! Remember my existence!") told me she was either going to be one of the people to die this week or a villain. She really had no point otherwise. Color me not surprised at all then when she turned out to be Red John's lackey.

And the fact that Red John killed her after she got caught? I think even Jane knew that was going to happen. He seemed not surprised at all (neither was I; lackeys have a very short expiration date after being caught). I actually thought he would bring it up in her speech to her, "You're just a tool to him. Completely disposable. Now that you've outlived your usefulness, he'll just throw you away." Not that she seemed terribly upset to be killed (just the opposite, in fact).

I kinda hope that the extreme creepiness of the fact Red John had Bosco & company killed will make Jane a bit less of a bastard then he's been this season. Make him show that he's NOT like Red John and will use and dispose of people so easily. Maybe a bit more protective/appreciative of his team.

The one thing that baffled me is the secretary's death. Did she have a vial of poison in her hand, which she squeezed (her hand was bloodied)? But the cops would have patted her down and found it. Did RJ give her slow-acting poison somehow, designed to strike after an hour or two? Was she in on it? She was smiling at everyone while being led down the hall, but she didn't look as maniacal as in the interview with Jane.

It looked as if while the secretary was being taken down the hall, they passed someone in a uniform who dripped or squeezed something green (and poisonous) onto her hand.

This was almost as good as it was hyped to be. I can understand why some would be disappointed if they believed CBS' aggressive marketing ploy (that made it sound as if a series regular could die) or actually expect anything that brings the Red John case closer to solving.

Apart from that, this was finally an episode with real suspense and an actual sense of urgency. Great acting moments for Baker, Kinney and Itzin. I agree it would have hit harder if we had a full season of Bosco behind us.

Amazing Grace as a song choice is cliché, but it was saved by Jane's leaving the room.

The opening with Rigsby and VP was a bit disappointing, considering how it was described to be. They certainly didn't go as far as a 10pm network show could go.

I wasn't going to ask, but IS there a green gel-like poison which pretty much shuts you down within a minute of being placed on your skin?

I figured this was just one of those things that exists only for TV/film, as it would be pretty damn easy to be a serial murderer if all you have to do is put a little goop on someone when randomly passing by.

As a medical person, I have learned to suspend reality and ignore some details to get through some of my beloved TV shows, but this was almost too much for even my little fan-wanking heart to handle. There are ways to get people to die looking pretty and giving death bed declarations of love, but that explanation wasn't one of them. I generally enjoy the writing on this show, but that was lazy and really took me out of the moment, which was too bad because the concept and acting were quite good. There have got to be some doctors out there (raises hand) who would take a phone call from a writer to give him a few more realistic ideas.

Regarding the poison, curare will kill someone within a short period of time if it is injected, although I don't know if it comes in a green gel form! I'm willing to fan-wank that Red John knows a good compounding pharmacist that gave him the preperation he needed for the job. See, I'm not that hard to please, just work with me here writers!

Heh. Especially if she and Rigsby are going to continue to attempt to conserve water. :)

TV Guide has an exclusive interview with Terry Kinney: http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/kecks-exclu...rview-3303.html His thoughts on Gregory Iztin's depature are particularly intriguing.

eta: Fast national ratings are in, and it looks like all the promo worked; the show won the night and beat Private Practice in the 18-49 demo for the first time all season. http://www.hitfix.com/articles/2009-11-20-...thursday-double

Ratings are in: 15.621 million and 15.951 million for the half-hours and 3.7/3.8 in the demo. That's no boost compared to earlier episodes, but it actually dominated Private Practice in the demo, and should beat CSI in total viewers and the demo. So there was an effect because of the special episode, but more visible in the fact it didn't lose like other shows that night did.

I think they film a lot of scenes that aren't used...just in case they need to expand a thought or make a point...or as a time filler. I for one don't watch this particular show for romantic encounters or sex scenes anyway. A little huggy kissy/flirting is okay but keep it short and off screen because I really don't care. The Rigsby/Grace love affair isn't relevant to the core of this show, IMO. It has absolutely nothing to do with Patrick Jane and his quest for Red John. And as has been noted many times, in real life either Rigsby or Grace would be asked to transfer once their relationship hit the sheets. Yes, I know, reality schmality.

So in that interview, was Terry speculating the Jane is Red John by the statement of rich, good looking and well known to us?

Based on what we've seen, Jane would have to have multiple personalities for him to be RJ and do what RJ does. The secretary clearly didn't respond to Jane in the interview as if she were talking about him. Unless Jane's RJ personality told the secretary to talk that way with all the CBI people watching. But this train of thought is too bizarre for me to continue, so I'm jumping off and hoping the writers don't stay on.

What you said. Also douchey? His whole confession of love to Lisbon. I guess it was supposed to be touching? But really, tacky was the least of it. They're being all tragic-eyed at each other, and I'm stuck back on, gee, I guess it sure is lucky that your wife, to whom you are married now, to whom you were married when you were working with Lisbon the first time, and have not, as far as we know, attempted to divorce, is stranded while trying to rush back to your deathbed. She'd probably get in the way while you're confessing love to another woman. You wouldn't want to leave her a message or anything, would you? No, thought not.

Jackass. And since they never bothered to show us anything winning about him, I have no idea why Lisbon even likes him, let alone loves him, and so the whole scene ends up making me think less of her, too. Nice job, guys. Oh, but then, he was a "good cop." Except they never showed us that either (not to mention that it's about the most generic positive quality they could have given him).

A mixed bag of an episode. There was stuff I liked, but the stuff I didn't like, I really didn't like. And not nearly enough Cho. More Cho!

Any possibility that the team might blame Jane (subconsciously or otherwise) for bringing all this down on their heads? He's admitted he's using the job to pursue his own private vendetta, and Red John made it clear that he "missed" Jane. (I think that's the word RJ used.)

You know, I almost typed "Red Jane." :)

I am awaiting an episode entitled "Red Lobster." :)

If so, he isn't the first and probably won't be the last person to advance such a theory! Does seem to rule out Minelli though, doesn't it?

I took Kinney's "well known to us" remark to mean that the show would ultimately cast a name actor in the part. But the idea that Jane is actually Red John is intriguing, but frankly I just don't see it. It is way too complicated a plot twist for a show like The Mentalist, which is quite traditional in it's storytelling.

"Well known to us" could imply that Minelli is Red John. But Minelli is not rich, and, with apologies to Gregory Itzin, certainly not good looking.

Of course "rich and good looking" is just Terry Kinney's speculation, so Minelli as Red John could certainly still happen. But I doubt it. I think they're going to cast someone with a little more charm for the role of Red John.

Still, am I the only one who thought there was something a little weird going on when Minelli hugged Lisbon as he was saying goodbye? He kind of held on to the hug a little long and then gave a rather weird sigh just before he let go.

I understand the show is about Jane and his quest for Red John. I realize most people watch for Jane and the crime solving. I also realize many scenes get cut in all episodes. I just find it odd after hyping the two of them and the whole interview. Of all the scenes to cut it would be such a big scene for two actors to make. I imagine alot went on in that one scene. IMO I do care what happens with Grace and Rigsby. I think if the writers are going to invest in the relationship at all than we should see some development on screen.





I feel the need to defend Bosco here. We do not know enough about him to say what kind of a person he really is. What we do know is yes he is in love with Lisbon. I can't fault him for that. He kept those feelings bottled up. Most likely because he knew it was inappropriate and the fact he was married. I think that was selfless of him. He never made a move on her or even tried to get her into bed. He stayed dedicated to his wife. As for confessing love to Lisbon. It was not Boscos fault he was shot or bleeding to death with only Lisbon at his side. It was not his fault his wife was away at that time. So he choose that moment to express his feelings for Lisbon. She was the only one there. I'm sure he was a good man who earned Lisbon's respect. I saw no real reason why she would not like him or even love him.

Yeah. Kinney said RJ should be played by someone known to us, not that he is known to us. And as for played by, I agree that he probably should be a name.

I am amused that in everything everyone has said about this ep, nobody has mentioned the scene with Lisbon in a bra. Does the demographic of this show skew so female that nobody cares?

Stepping back for a second, true, Amazing Grace is overused but if you look past its use as just a “sad scene” song it actually is perfect for what they were trying to convey with Jane here. It goes back to Jane’s interrogation of crazy secretary. She told him that RJ was trying to help him. RJ sees himself like the killer in “Saw” – a god-like figure doling out cruel, vicious but (in his mind) necessary life lessons that will make Jane a better person. Jane, prior to his family’s murders, was a callow, arrogant con-man who preyed on the bereaved (OK, now he's a con man who works for the police but you'd have to admit he's a better person, if slightly - it's a game of inches, folks.) Now, think of the lyrics of the song:

“…that saved a wretch like me.”

Crazy secretary also told him that prior to the murders Jane was blind

“I once was lost but now am found
Was blind but now I see.”

Of course, I don’t think the writers are trying to infer that RJ has helped Jane but are using it to remind Jane (and the audience) of RJ’s purpose. Actually, I think another possibility the writers might be exploring here is that perhaps some higher power (one that Jane doesn’t believe in) is trying to make lemonade out of lemons here – Grace using horrible acts that can’t be changed to make Jane into a better person and stop RJ as well. Grace is at work and is playing the hand it is dealt by RJ’s actions. It’s going to take a while to see how it plays out.

Like "Hallelujah" by Jeff Buckley? ;>

I had completely forgotten about the secretary from the last time we saw her, so I gave her no more importance than the other members of the team. So I at least was surprised.

I'm not sure how I feel about dragging out the Red John storyline for years. If they keep on making it as prominent has they have, I am going to get impatient with it.

I didn't feel that way at all about that scene. We learned about that relationship mainly from how Jane interpreted their body language around each other and the look in their eyes and from what wasn't said far more than what was said. Bosco loved Lisbon and never told her or tried to get her into bed and if he'd lived he wouldn't have left his wife. He said as much. She loved him and never told him or did anything to disrespect his wife. It's only when he knows for sure that he's on his death bed and they're alone in the room that he says "I love you. It had to be said." If his wife had been there in the room, he'd probably have said "I love you" and I'm sure it would have been true. He had years of history with a wife who cared enough to nag him about his diet and probably raised his children and made a home for him.

He was a good cop who snapped once and killed a criminal who'd have gotten away otherwise. He was the guy who would have looked the other way if Lisbon had been guilty of killing the child molester and would have "taken care of it" for her. He was the grump who was jealous of Jane and wanted him out of Lisbon's life and career but eventually came around and shared a summary of the case file with him even after Lisbon blackmailed him for Jane's sake. He was the guy who saluted Lisbon with tequila at the end of a case, who stole Lisbon's sandwich and made a goofy face at her when she threatened to tell Mandy. She thought it was funny and endearing, not "douchey." There was a lot to love about that guy, not least that he was honorable enough not to break his marriage vows. Lisbon wears that cross for some reason. She's an honorable woman too.

"Hallelujah" is overdone as a song on TV shows. I thought both the musical selections were perfect.

I missed something on the timing. Is it true that if Bosco hadn't waited to share his RJ lead with Jane, he would have gotten to it before "Agent Rojo" over there would have had a chance to steal the evidence?

Also, did Jane ever actually drink to Bosco's memory? Cho swapped out his tequila for water, but I thought Jane walked out of the room with his shot glass still full in his hand. Not sure what happened to it when he went after the RJ file. (Oh, and whoever around here used the word "mainlining" RJ a coupla pages back -- I love that!)

(I thought the singing of "Amazing Grace" was pretty heavy-handed, too. In my experience, I've never returned from a funeral and had someone in the room start humming or singing at all.)

Seriously. He lost a lot of blood, but they must've given him transfusions. If the loss of blood volume was bad enough and went on long enough to permamently damage his organs, he wouldn't have been that functional up to the end. Garn!



That was another Garn! from me. The best wank I can come up with is that he gave her a poison in parts, like, maybe she ingested some of the chemicals in advance and the topical application of the green gel completed the compound.



I definitely got the new reading of the AG lyrics. What had me giggling was the implication that Van Pelt is Red John.
"'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear, and Grace my fears relieeeeeved!"

Van Pelt has an athletic physique, but I don't think she could pass as a man in such intimate quarters as the secretary must've seen him. Still, hee, hee, hee!

Oh, and Yeoman has a good voice. Nice to see the Welsh tradition of male vocalists carrying on.

HEY! Jeff Buckley's version of that song is quite beautiful. It's everyone else's that's overdone!

I can't listen to that song without thinking about the death of Simon Donovan on The West Wing. It always makes me cry.

Yeah, but Jane was probably right that Bosco would have agreed if they asked him. Besides, they needed to know what Red John or his accomplice looked like in case he or she came back to finish off Bosco.

I'm gonna ask for some help here. I was just re-watching the teaser from last night's episode (what? I'm shallow, I'll fully admit it) and I noticed something interesting that I can't double-check because my DVR doesn't record the show in HD. Does Owain Yeoman have a tattoo on the back of his right arm that the makeup department is trying to cover up?

Sorry, Tgrfan. Don't know about the tattoo.

Loved the episode and have lots of thoughts about it (acting was great, I'll miss Bosco, etc) - but one of the things I noticed was a minor thing that had to do with Cho.

Have they ever mentioned that Cho doesn't drink? When they toasted with the tequila, he raised his glass, but didn't drink it. He put the glass down and drank his water. I tried to think back if it was ever an issue and all I could think of was when he re-gifted a bottle of wine to Lisbon for her birthday. I wonder if it'll come up in a future episode or if Tim Kang just decided to make that a part of his character.

I was told by an Asian friend that many (although, clearly not all) Asian men don't drink. Something about lacking an enzyme that processes alcohol. (I don't claim to be an expert on this, but Cho not drinking seemed to fit in well with what she'd told me.)

I'm leaning away from thinking that Minelli's a viable candidate for Red John. I did like the cut to him after Bosco said...whatever it was he said about RJ, and was on board with it being Minelli (what with RJ having an in to the CBI beyond his lackey), but the poisoning scene made me change my mind. The sequence of the scenes seems to be:
-she was taken from the interview room straight downstairs to the holding area
-while in the hallway in the holding area, she sees another uniformed (and faceless) man walking toward her and the officers escorting her
-her face lights up with pleasure at seeing said faceless and uniformed man
-when they pass, the faceless man puts poison on her skin, killing her

Obviously, based on her expression, she recognized and was pleased to see Red John. Also, I'm sure that one or both of her guards mentions how seconds before she went down, another officer brushed past them. The poison will be identified as near instantaneous, so everyone should conclude that the unknown man who passed was RJ. I think the guards would recognize Minelli and coupled with the light speed needed for him to go from observing the interview to changing clothes and getting to the holding area, it just doesn't seem possible for it to be him.

Now that I've said this, we'll later learn that the faceless man was another lackey and Minelli is RJ and just sitting back manipulating his followers while twirling his mustache.

Ha, quite possibly. I thought the scene itself was an interesting inside look to Lisbon. She seemed like she was mentally trying to get herself to "pull it together" - and yet showed a lot of vulnerability without anything even being said. Good job by Robin.

tgrfan23 - Ah, I noticed that on his arm as well. I can't say for sure but it looks like they were trying to cover up something. Even in his shirtless PETA ad, there's a shadow over that part of his arm, so you can't quite tell if he has a tattoo. Link here to his PETA ad. Go ahead and look (again)...you know it's hard not too. :-)

Regarding Cho and his not drinking. That's something that's been standing out mostly towards the end of the first season (in 1x20 Red Sauce where he re-gifts a bottle of champagne to Lisbon and tells Jane he "doesn't drink that stuff"), and also in this season (in 2x05 Red Scare he never takes a sip of his wine, although he sniffs it a couple times). But going back to 1x06 Red Handed (yes, I actually went back and re-watched this scene in particular) the part where they're all playing poker in a restaurant/bar, Cho has a half empty bottle of beer in front of him and is shown drinking from it in a few shots. Although, I also noticed he has a shot glass in front of him that still appears to be full. (Rigsby has his own empty one in front of him, so I'm assuming the full one is Cho's.) While I'm at it, might as well throw in that in 1x14 Crimson Casanova Cho orders a bourbon on the rocks from the bartender (I think it's a bourbon) and is never shown taking a sip from it. Maybe Cho's just a beer kind of guy? IDK...but I hope it's something that will be addressed in a later issue.

EDIT:

OHHH! That would make sense actually. *slaps self* It's the "asian glow" haha. My dad's whole face gets beet red from drinking a single glass of wine, but I only get pink in the cheeks and bloodshot eyes (even after doing shots). I think it definitely depends on the Asian person in question.

I hate the Jeff Buckley version. Plus, people seem to think he wrote it, not Leonard Cohen. I'd recommend "Bird on a Wire" or "The Partisan" (although the latter would likely never be on a US TV show).

I quite liked the scene with Lisbon in a bra, but the emotion of it probably took away any titillation people might have felt in a different context.

I have not saved the recording, so can't check, but I think Cho at least ordered an alcoholic beverage (bourbon?) in the pick-up scene at the spa last season. He and the woman both seemed to be loosening up as the conversation progressed, so I assumed beverages were consumed, though of course that could all have been fakery by Cho. In a real life conversation, I'd think that she'd have noticed total lack of drinking, though.

I see earthlydreamz has commented on this.

On a completely different topic, I am not enthused at all about the possibility of Minelli being RJ. Too involute, too tricksy, too implausible. The only real evidence going for it that I have seen is that the poisoner in the hallway, who seems likely to be RJ, had short dark hair. Minelli is not charismatic enough to be getting a whole posse of accomplices and as a prominent member of the CBI his movements would be pretty tightly followed for all of the past 8 years.

The scene where Lisbon was washing her blouse was so sad. In this little sink full of bloody, bloody water...she's washing and washing and washing the bloody shirt. Not getting it clean, or even getting any of the blood away...because it will never go away. Out drat spot...

I wasn't surprised by anything in this episode -- but I still liked it very much. Just based on the preview I said that Bosco's team is going to die, and Red John wants Jane to have the case back. I also assumed the secretary had a part in it -- no reason for her to be there otherwise.

I'll be VERY bummed if Patrick Jane (or a split personality of his) turns out to be Red John. No matter who it ultimately it, though, I *guarantee* that when we replay all of the Red john episodes, we'll find GLARING inconsistencies all the way to the point of "But he COULDN'T be Red John...."

Re: the secretary's failure to kill Bosco... She didn't mean to, at least not the first time. Patrick knew immediately that the first case was related to Red John. When he was in Bosco's office, he said very urgently, "There should be three bodies. Why aren't there three bodies?" I don't think he was suggesting that Hicks was missing and therefore the killer either. I think Jane -- for whatever reason -- believed that RJ would leave three bodies, and because Bosco was still alive, it meant there would be one more.

Re: Amazing Grace. It's my favorite song ever, so I didn't mind it, particularly since, as people here have noted, it had multiple meanings. The most poignant thing to me was Jane walking out of the room, because there *is* no grace for him. Not ever.

Reminds me of the concept that there is only one being in the universe that can send you to hell: you.

Ditto. I thought Bosco mugging it up with the sandwich was a little too cheesy.

I think I have seen all of the eps of The Mentalist this season but apparently I am missing some of the back story on Bosco. He was just introduced this season, right? Where/why/who/how did he have this great love for Lisbon? I must have missed the ep where we learned about this because by the time I was paying attention it seemed to have already been a given fact. Did we ever see his wife or learn about the state of their relationship? I'll admit I was confused overall about this whole dynamic, especially last night when Bosco is a married man confessing his great love for a co-worker while he dies without his wife by his side. Color me confused. Not to mention I pick up zero chemistry between Lisbon and Bosco.

I'm interested in seeing how the writers restructure the dynamics of the squad now that they have "cleaned house" and they can use this opportunity to reset some the story lines.

No - Agent Rojo picked up the evidence the night before. She then had to kill the team before any of them actually got to the coroner and found out the evidence had been taken. But she waited until it was clear Bosco wouldn't leave until after updating Jane - If Bosco hadn't waited to talk to Jane, he'd have been heading out to drive to the evidence and he wouldn't have been there to be shot.

When you put that together with the fact that she shot the other guys first, dropping each of them with one shot, but didn't immediately kill Bosco even with multiple shots, it's possible she was hoping she wasn't going to have to kill Bosco. Then again, maybe she just specifically needed to do it with a "fetching coffee" excuse so that she had a justification for not being in the room and getting shot herself.

Cleaned house how, exactly? We have the exact same five on the team as we did at the beginning of the season; Minelli resigning isn't going to have an immediate impact on the team, because they will be flying without a leader for a while as Agent Beth Scott isn't showing up before the beginning of next year anyway. I don't see what storylines are going to be reset, either, unless I watched a very different episode of the show last night.


We never met Mandy Bosco. Bosco and Lisbon's working relationship goes back to their years working together at the San Francisco PD, at least a decade, and it's all spelled out in the first three episodes of the season.

By "cleaned house" I was referring, literally, to the squad house. Are they going to bring in a new boss who hates Jane and won't let him work with the team? Are there going to be new agents in the house that become a romantic interest for some of our characters? Etc, etc, etc.... That's what I meant by resetting the storyline - of course the main gang is still intact but by changing out virtually everyone they interact with and/or are supervised by, they can bring some new dynamics to the show.

Thanks for the Lisbon/Bosco back story.

Til, as a die-hard Cohen fan I desperately want them to end an episode with "The Future". I think in a way it would fit both Jane and Red John. "Give me absolute control, over every living soul. And lie beside me baby. That's an order!" Of course, I get a feeling they'd probably beep out the "Give me crack and anal sex" line. *snickers*

They never really interacted with anyone inside the Bureau, besides Minelli, before this season anyway. If anything, eliminating Bosco and his team merely sets the show back to status quo - interacting primarily with local law enforcement on cases that would otherwise be outside their jurisdiction, because the locals can't/don't want to get involved, or someone with political clout drags them into it.

How Minelli's replacement ends up affecting the team's dynamics is anybody's guess, because until she shows up (or is at least mentioned) on screen, she doesn't exist yet.

Nerve agents that are used as chemical weapons can be absorbed through the skin, and they act quickly. The effects are considerably more graphic and messy than we saw, and maybe they would take a little longer and 1.5 seconds, but this is Hollywood, after all.

Loved the episode, very well done.

Have to laugh at the poster who thinks Cho doesn't drink is because Asians don't drink. As a Aussie living in China, I have yet to met an Asian, Chinese or otherwise, who doesn't drink. And boy do they drink - from a young age too (no drinking age here). Beer and cigarettes are very cheap, and people buy them. I've never met so many women who smoke either (ew). Asians may not hold their alcohol well, because their body frames are typically smaller, but as it is certainly part of Asian cultures to drink, especially for men. All the Asian I have ever met (in Australia, China or elsewhere) have always more than kept up drinking-wise. ;)

Some Asians are a bit 'allergic/intolerant' to alcohol so they may get the red face and may not particularly like the effects that alcohol have on them; a whole other group doesn't get any of these negative effects at all (I'm in this group).

Regardless of this, no matter what group we fall into, some Asians love drinking, and some don't, just like all other humans. Many will not let these effects stop them.

Cho:
Since the show (or possibly just Tim Kang himself) has made it a point to show that Cho doesn't drink, I expect that we'll find out why once they ever get around to fleshing out the character. Perhaps he drank a lot (and/or did drugs) when he was in a gang, but cleaned up his act later and just doesn't drink now as a matter of self discipline.

He does at least drink beer (unless he was drinking a non-acoholic beer back in S1 Red Handed).

Don't have final broadcast ratings for The Mentalist for Thursday night yet, but it is the second time it beat Private Practice in the 18-49 demo this year.

Back to HRRH - Amazing Grace was a good choice at the end - for the tongue in cheek value of Rigsby singing it (I did groan a bit tho) and for Jane especially the line 'I was blind but now I see' where the song cuts off and all you hear are the pipes (one assumes Patrick to be Irish-and we are being treated to Danny Boy in A Price Above Rubies so suck it up, crimefighting is hard :-) Since the show is about redemption it's very appropriate, and also that Jane walks away. He is alone with his pain (the truth is mine), he has stated once you die there's nothingness and he clearly doesn't think he's worth redeeming at this point in the main story arc. So he has to walk away. Jane isn't going to get drunk because it would affect his mind, besides he honors Bosco by finding Red John, not by drinking to a song about a religion he doesn't believe in. I am not reading into it that Cho doesn't drink. He's probably watching his carbs. Blindness is a running theme in the show - Bach, Bloodshot, Harker, what Rebecca says to Jane, et al, as are lemons. Don't think it wasn't important that Heller had Jane's original profile of Red John put back on the DVD (it was changed in the Pilot to make Jane appear to be even more foolhardy insulting Red John) - 'a citrus tree in the front yard, lemon I think.' The lemony smell in Bloodshot, how Jane throws away the water with lemon in it when doing the reading for the woman who later commits suicide, Jane asking for lemons when confronting the sister and her busband at their bar in their house in Red Bulls, yellow roses between the dead doctor's legs, lemons on the bar as Jane walks by in HRRH on his way to the doctor's office where he also passes a vase of yellow flowers (not being botanically minded, were those yellow morning glories because of the doctor's name?). I have no idea where they go with things like this - they also make a point of mentioning New Jersey things quite a bit - Bosco is a chocolate syrup made there.

There's another construction connection with Red John - the body is found encased in concrete when a strip mall is demolished - he builds a prison for Jane in the finale. He smells like pine and earth (or death actually - coffins and burials). They have put Jane's olfactory powers out there strong this season.

The show is rather judicious about using songs, so I don't mind when they do it - the song over crazy Rebecca being walked away was in keeping with what was going on, the theme of Red John/cold/necrophelia/sex/her love/death. I loved how she couldn't walk straight - that suggests several bad things, unbalanced, crooked, and also something that could be icky. Note how Red John is planning on raping the woman he just killed when her husband comes in to try and stop him. One need only think back to what he must have done to Jane's wife and daughter. Now I appreciate more we were spared seeing anything other than Jane opening the door after reading the note in the pilot. Not that you shouldn't have always assumed RJ was a sexual sadist.

Things I liked - Jane and Rebecca having the same expression on their faces at the beginning of the interrogation, Jane struggling at the end of the interview to get his mask back up after she hits him with the two body blows of RJ killing his family and Bosco and his team as being 'for him'. Cho patting him on the shoulder (Jane and Cho are tight) after they take Rebecca away and then Jane being surrounded by Cho, VP and Rigsby 'his people' (OK Lisbon may be the boss but Bosco called it right, but then Jane is her people), hitting the wall then kicking it after finding Rebecca dead, the laugh. Kudos to the actress who played Rebecca - she was excellent, had the same expression as the women who followed Manson and how she smiles lovingly at RJ as he passes her in the basement hall (which kills the Jane is Red John theory right there). RJ has a signature walk just like Jane does and he likes his costumes, just like Jane. They are more alike than different.

Lisbon was great - I was thinking of MacBeth also as she tries to wash away the blood in the bathroom. I did think it funny she would try and do that in the bathroom - like she lives there too, like Jane. Kinney and Itzin were outstanding. After reading that interview with Kinney, I could understand what Itzin was trying to get across. Jane sniffing Rigsby and Van Pelt at the first crime scene. Lilacs? Jane is going to have a lot of fun with Rigsby and Van Pelt. Lisbon in total denial over Bosco's fate until the end, Cho shutting the building down on the walkie talkie, Minelli telling Lisbon to watch Jane and if he gets out of line to shoot him and no jury would convict her, horses-assery, you Moron, Rebecca's perky 'it's spooky!', Bosco had my favorite though "I am really pissed..."

Not that I ever thought this was the show to showcase a blatant sex scene, but maybe the Wayne/Grace shippers will get it as an extra on the DVD for season 2. The closest they've ever come to that was when the head of security and the secretary were rolling around on the floor in Paint It Red (another good use of a song) and that was pretty tame. After all the lead character on the show wears full length flannel pajamas and three piece suits in California :-)

Moral of the show - if you can find a secretary who picks up coffee for you in this day and age, you should be suspicious...

It may well have been a good thematic choice, but for me, that doesn't make it any less heavy-handed. I got what Bruno was trying to say just fine without having to hear the song, thanks.

As for the teaser - Owain and Amanda definitely oversold it, but I can't fault them for that - they shot for 16 hours, I am sure there's tons more footage and I highly doubt they saw the final edit of the episode before it aired, so they likely didn't know what made it and what didn't. Given the quality of extras on last season's DVDs though, I am not optimistic about that making it as an extended/deleted scene.

I doubt there is a lot of (significant) cut footage from that bed scene. I think the main misinterpretation was in 'they get their first sex scene' which sort of promised more than there was in the first place. They could have easily showed more skin without turning tacky, though.

If he doesn't drink alchohol because he's watching his carbs, why was he drinking a beer in S1? The guy is clearly in good shape so he's taking care of himself. I could see him turning down a lot of drinks because he's smart about nutrition, but to purposely NOT drink a toast to a fallen comrade just because he's watching carbs seems very crass. I would hope there's more to it than just that. Presumably we will find out more once the show gets around to fleshing out the character. (Which I hope will be soon, btw, because he is my favorite character on the show.)



The Manson reference doesn't really work for me. Manson's followers were a bunch of stoner loser social dropouts who lived on a compound with him, they weren't functioning members of society who were holding down highly visible law enforcement jobs. Really crazy people don't function well in normal society, so the notion that Red John has a network of highly placed, connected crazy followers just doesn't ring true to me. I see more of a resemblence to Rasputin than Manson, but even Rasputin wasn't a serial killer. The huge coincidence that one of RJ's followers would just happen to end up in Bosco's office is also seriously tugging at my willing suspension of disbelief here, though it does play well with the idea of Red John as super villain.

So far as this scene shooting down the idea that Jane is Red John... I've only seen it once so I"m just going by memory, but was there enough time between the hallway scene and the previous interrogation room scene for Jane to have changed clothes, poisoned her, walked around the corner to change clothes again and then come running back to yell "don't touch her?" It doesn't seem likely to me.

I like the idea that RJ was right there the whole time, waiting to take her out. How did he know that she'd be there in that hallway though? And what was the state of the security cameras? Are we supposed to assume that the cameras were still broken at this point? That's pretty sloppy of the CBI.


Not sure which "you" is being referred to here, but I don't recall anyone ever assuming that he wasn't a sexual sadist. These sorts of murderers IRL all have some sort of grotesque sexual angle.

To play with the idea of Red John as super criminal mastermind (since that is clearly where the show has gone), what if the person who is committing the RJ murders isn't actually Red John himself, but rather is just one of Red John's many followers? That would allow the 'real' Red John be some sort of evil mentalist-type who uses people (including a psycho killer), rather than being a psycho killer who also happens to be a master mental manipulator.

This would also leave the door open for Patrick Jane to be Red John.