Calypso description from Yahoo! TV:

Oh, wait. Wrong description.

Apocalypse:

Prepping the Canada thread for merging with the main thread tonight.

The above only applies to the Canada thread. Once the episode has aired in the US it can be discussed in other threads, as usual.

Okay.

So, can anyone tell me how Clark not only went back to Krypton, but also went back to 1989? Portals, yes, I know. But we were told they were closed, and we were told they were Krypton to Earth and vice versa portals, not 2008 to 1989 and vice versa portals. UGH. So bad with the plotholes.

That aside, fun episode! I guess we know why Sleeper was so Chimmy heavy; they were barely in this episode at all.

ETA: First Clex scene since the epic funeral in Descent, and it's All About Lana. How fucking great.

I’ll say this for Hal 2.0, he spins a great story. But this would have worked much better if they hadn’t squandered the last 2 years with the character stalling and the Clexana crap. And especially after last week’s complete waste. Also the writers still can’t carry off more than one narrative at a time. The Lex in Zurich stuff should have been the B plot of this episode. And it’s still All.About.Lana. Although Lex fishing for info by using her condition was nice.

If I were ED, I be pretty pissed at spending the last 3 years as the comic relief. She could carry off being Lois Lane pretty well, if they had allowed her to. Particularly a Lois who’s more in your face than some of the others. And LV was obviously watching TW as Bizarro and channelling him in her “Kara is slightly off scene”. But seeing Chloe reduced to cheerleader status was just painful.

There were some “snerk” moments - “I don’t give up” since when Clark? & “Linda Danvers” - head of DDS - and Camille Mitchell looked pretty damn good.

Braniac - Isn’t not doing the dramatic pause one of the rules on the Evil Overlord list. And about turning your back on a live enemy there.

The acting was first rate. But if they're going to be using this as a template for next year - it doesn't work for me as story telling - there's no flow from the characters, it's authorial fiat.

So much Clark, so little time! Plotholes aplenty, zero explanations for the "finer" details, but really, were we expecting anything less?

Quick thoughts:
- I loved the AU. All of it. I know many will probably have issues with it being "the show they won't give us" but it totally worked for me. I liked that Clark went to make sure that all his friends were happy, because it would validate his choice to not exist, which ... is not a good thing, but wankable and that's for another time.
- Zod lives!
- the Krypton part did not work for me so much. It was just horribly rushed, anticlimactic and the set looked really, really fake. Kara couldn't have done what she did without Clark there?
- honestly, Chloe's speech at the beginning didn't effect me in the least. I love Chloe, but it just seemed same old, same old Clark emoing and Chloe telling him the right thing to do and he'll do it dammit, because she says so. Sure, she was right, but it's getting a little old. Which leads me into...
- dear lord, they're making me like Clois. Why can't we get more of these little friendship moments, just for a change of pace?
- Clark had another offscreen birthday. Happy Birthday, Clark!
- Kara telling Clark she'll always "be there" for him? Creepy. And Clark thought so, too.
- the Clex is still all about Lana. And she's worse than ever! Awesome.

Overall, I liked it, the Krypton scenes aside, but they'll probably grow on me. Everything always does with this show, sooner or later.

I hate to nitpick on the first episode I've been excited about all season, especially the part I'm really excited about, but I just realized--Lex is too young to be POTUS. Legally.

How disappointing to hear about a clex Lana convo. *sigh*

I'm a little surprised Clark was civil to Lex. He knows noone on earth can help Lana.

Legalities? What are these laws you speak of? We here in the US can totally have a 29 year old be our president. ; )

The Clex scene is All About Lana? The hell?

What the HELL is wrong with this show? Don't they pay attention to ANYTHING?

Yeah, let's just retcon that pesky Constitution. ;)

See I didn't mind the Clex scene so much, cause MR was playing Lex as fishing for info or confirmation that it was related to Clark and his secrets. Now, the opening scene with the big damn picture of Lana, that was cringeworthy. YMMV.

I didn't like the last scene with Clois at the DP. first off it's soo OOC for Clark to be there without Chloe IMHO. And then he tells Lois she's a good friend yet we get nothing for Chloe? And Lois buys him a beer and takes him out that really sucks IMHO.

Also no mention Chloe was a reporter in the AU.

I guess Clois fans finally got their episode.

Yes. I see how they're shoehorning the Clois. Their many scenes together and meaningful moments have all been building it so subtly... except how they totally haven't.

I mean, they pal around in an AU and suddenly Clois. I call lightswitch!

What I've heard doesn't bode well for Chloe it would seem. Also, why are they persisting with such an unheroic Clark? Chloe has to literally force him to save the world? WTH?

I don't doubt that Lois could be a good friend...but I guess all that happens in Offscreenville.



Since when does Clark drink beer??? OK. Now who has the theory about alcohol??? I know there's one for coffee...

Well at least I can take consolation in the notion that Lana as a meteor freak has never looked stronger.

It's just like freaking Crimson.

And I hate how we still have yet to get someone going to Chloe to be her shoulder to cry on over her issues. No focus on the character. I don't care about her screentime, when there is no focus the character is just there.

Chloe was in 2 scenes. 1 chlark scene at the begining and then the one with George.

That's it.


Continuity I guess, Lois still drinks, and now adding Clark to it.

This is how we know it's not real. In alternate reality, coffee doesn't exist.

BTW, it was in the real world:

Scene starts with Clark looking up stuff on the computer at the DP, Lois walks in and they start to talk about Lana. Lois says Clark was there for her when she needed a shoulder to cry on and she wishes she good make it all better for him. Clark "You're a good friend Lois." Then she playfully punches him on the arm and tells him she'll buy him a brew! She puts her arm around his shoulder and they walk out of the DP

I thought Alcohol meant bad choices? You know when Lex drinks it's reflecting on his evil/bad choices he made/makes. Lois drank and got kicked out. Her first kiss was a drunken kiss blah blah

I expected to hear this. I'm not surprised or upset, because she had alot of time in Sleeper, and despite it being slightly barf-worthy, it was still alot of time. Sometimes I forget that behind the character, there is an actor/actress that spends alot of time on set to appear in every episode. TW had to take time off last week...this week AM is taking time off and ED is picking up the slack I guess.



Well that's interesting. They talk about Lana....no surprise....

So I guess Clark can still work on the DP computers even though Chloe has been fired from her job?...and the dude doesn't even work there???? How random is that. Can someone just hire him already??

That works for me, thanks for the correction.

Totally. ED was good in the episode. But the ending was such a shoe horn of Clois. It wasn't especially touching, but she thinks she can help him by buying him a beer? Ah Lois.

Seriously, why wasn't he researching at Isis? With its access to medical databases, presumably? Arrgh.

Loved Chloe at the beginning and end. Very emotional on her part. She looked adorable in the AU (I've always liked her with curls.) They may be shoe horning Clois but I find it interesting that without CK around Chloe ended up engaged to a CK look alike who is a cop (IOW a hero). Hmmm.... She has a type? I'm glad Clark was happy for her but he still seemed a bit wistful at the news too. 'Course I'm biased ;)

It was so nice to see Sheriff Adams again!

I didn't see the Clex scene as really being All About Lana. I thought it was Lex giving Clark one last chance to reveal his secrets, in the pretext of helping Lana. He was fishing. At least it's been contextually recognized that Lex has heard about what happened to Lana.

Interesting cliffhanger. So maybe Brainiac is inside Kara? For a second I thought she was Brainiac and was going to pierce something in the fridge with his freaky finger.

Baby Clark is made of squee! Very cute baby. When he pulled the baby blanket over his eyes during the fight scene I "Awww"ed.

I guess that's the future Clois dynamic. *snorts*

Crimson had very little effect on the Clois relationship long-term, if any.



I am sure Craig didn't mislead anyone. He stated his opinion. Furthermore, I think it's obvious this episode was cut some-- where was Jor-El at the beginning? Why didn't we ever hear George Dean's name? Craig bases his comments on what he knows from the stuff he gets to see, which is not necessarily the finished product. We need to be appreciative for what he tells us, and not complain when we don't agree with him, or when his spoilers don't happen to exactly match up with the finished episode.

Top it off... Chloe's fiancee was nameless.

It may seem like a Clois foreshadowing episode but the CK-ish fiancee' and this:

Chloe (tearful): We need you! I need you!

and throwing herself into his arms in her third scene, keeps my Chlarky heart beating.

I don't remember this, when was this?

But remember, it's supposed to be sweet!



Maybe this is how tptb are going to use the DP set next year with Chloe away from it. Obviously, Jimmy and Lois are there, but maybe Clark randomly shows up to do research (despite ISIS), hence we have the iconic Clark, Lois and Jimmy trio at the Daily Planet!!

Rich.



When I listened to the ad with this line, I somehow knew it wasn't going to end with "We need you". I had this uncanny feeling that she was going to make it personal. And here we have another parallel-to Clark's: "You'll forget your experiences, your friends, you'll forget me...you'll forget me." It's rare that they actually do what I think they will do.

On another note, it was very nice to hear Jor-el's voice again. Shame he and Lara weren't in the Krypton scene. I agree with Polar B that the whole Krypton scene felt rushed and anti-climatic.

This episode, like a few SV eps before it, would probably have benefitted greatly from being a 2-parter. Its a shame that this show is so allergic to the concept.

I'm just giddy that Clark was doing computer research on his own. Its a small thing, but it makes me happy :)

Oh, he was there, insomuch as he ever is, giving Clark yet another verbal smackdown for ignoring his destiny. At least Clark got some info out of it this time.


It looked to me that, to save time (and money, probably), the Isis set was re-dressed to be Jimmy's loft in the AU, so they had Clark researching at the DP due to set constraints.


I might have squeed a little over that, too.

So George is a hot cop, yummy! Hey! Maybe George is the one who arrests Chloe in "Arctic" true love,lol.

I thought the Clex scene with Lex was Lex making it crystal clear to Clark that he knows the "alien" nature of Lana's illness is something Clark should be able to shed light on. And when Clark refuses, the little movement of Lex's head was tantamount to saying "you're lying" and that he knows Clark is lying rather than give information that Lex could use to help Lana. He's implying that Clark is putting Teh Secret over Lana. By saying "If there's something you left out that you'd like to share, you know where to find me" he was twisting the knife.

Clark's only "out' is that 1) he thinks Brainiac is destroyed, and 2) he was told by Brainiac (and now Lex's doctor's via Lex) that no one on earth could heal Lana.

The scene was more about Lex believing that Clark is prioritizing lying to Lex over what Lex perceives as an opportunity to help Lana. I think it surprised Lex that Clark would make that priority. Of course Lex doesn't know what Brainiac said.

Sorry, I edited that. I meant at the beginning. I'd gotten the impression Clark was supposed to go to the Fortress to talk to Jor-El, and be sent into the AU by him personally.

Yeah they let a person walk off the street and access their server.

Was it just me, or did they retcon Clark's first memory in Memoria when he screamed Lara, now that Clark put himself in the ship.

And with Brainiac by the ship, now we know why it had the message "Rule them with strength."

Besides that, we specifically saw Jor-El and Lara sending Clark off in the ship in Memoria, so where were they? I can't get over the fact that they just brushed over the time travelling and that Clark was ON KRYPTON.

He was sent in by Jor-El, just not via the Fortress; they use the octagonal disc. I had assumed the same from spoilers, that Clark would go to the Fortress, but I think that set was busy being Krypton.


Clark walks in all the time. As for the server access, he specifically says Jimmy set it up for him.


Details! :) I assumed Brainiac had gotten rid of them. They've screwed around with the time travel, so I assume Clark's Memoria memory is retconned out, now, though it was still valid when he had it.

Chloe is in the first scene at the barn, begging Clark not to let himself be killed. Very emotional and well done. I sensed her frustration. How do you force a superbeing with superstrength not to something they're determined to do? Or not do as the case may be. (Note: I didn't see this as Clark being overwhelmed by guilt for everything, but more as resigning himself to the fact that it may be the only way to save Lana from her current state. He seems to think everything will just be Ok with everyone if he never came to Earth).

Chloe's second scene is in the AU. Clark looks her up (how he finds her on a Metropolis street with info from the phone book is beyond me). She doesn't know him, barely remembers a cheerleader named Lana, and introduces him to her nameless fiancee. Clark actually asks her for help in tracking down Lana! Old habits... Oh and there's mention of Gabe! Yeah! Chloe seems happy but we don't really know anything else about her except she's engaged to a hottie Metropolis Police Officer (his t-shirt). Thanks TBTB for continuing to keep Chloe's future vague til endgame.

Chloe's third and final scene is back in the barn when Clark "returns" from his AU experience. She thought he was a goner (going to fade away like Marty McFly), so when he was Ok she threw herself into his arms to hug him. Very in character scenes in the barn.

I don't think that's a retcon, but an actual change in history, like the new pages in Dr. Swann's journal.

See? He can do it!!!!

Yet another parallel to note: George Dean is a cop...as was clumsy!Clark in Noir.

Clark on Krypton gets me excited.

Something funny I thought of, George (or whatever his name was) was wearing the Superman crest/shield then. Isn't the Metropolis shield, the same as Superman's? In the AU Chloe got her "Superman."

Point. Retcon was not the right choice of word on my part.

I just realized something I have to go back and check later!

I believe Chloe's fiancee is a member of the Metropolis Police Dept. because of the t-shirt he was wearing under his jacket.
The shirt?
1. Blue (not primary blue, but still)
2. The MPD shield on it (like Superman's shield and S)

Plus he's tall and has Superman-type hair! Oh the Chlois and Chlark anvils are a-fallin'! *squee*

Edited to add: DonnyMarie, are you me? ;)

I think I said something more along the lines of everyone having something to do, and that I was glad that BOTH Lois and Chloe had material. From what I know the first scenes are very Chlark-team-up heavy, so, yes, Chloe was represented. It's not as though Chloe's scene with George was her only scene in the episode.

By the way, apparently the "Chris" and "George Dean" names were cut, and the young man at the Kent Farm is named "Clark"... though I don't know if that's mentioned onscreen.

Clark also was a Cop in Noir, so yeah that's the point IMHO.

.

Yes it is. He introduces himself to Clark as Clark Kent.

And Clark's happiness at learning that Jonathon Kent is still alive is heart warming.

I said exactly that about 3/4 of the way through. Why did they waste 40+ minutes on Sleeper then pack so much into this? I felt like I had whiplash at times, there was so much going on and such little exploration of so rich material.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more complaining about Clark's role in the episode, although I guess that was mostly exhausted in the spoilers thread. This was essentially exactly what was predicted: Clark finds out that all of his friends would be happier without him, but "the world" needs him. He didn't exactly come away from the experience all George Bailey, happy to be alive, but rather stoically determined to do his duty. Yay.

Lois in the AU didn't bother me, because (as it seemed to me while watching the director's cut) she was basically Chloe. They just wrote Chloe's dialogue and gave it to Erica Durance. I do wish they had explained how and why Lois became a reporter in the alternate timeline; and also what Chloe's job was in the AU, but, well, that's why it should have been a two-parter.

But the last scene at the DP was just WTF-worthy. If the ending they go for is "Clark falls for Lois because he met her in an alternate universe where she was just like Chloe" I may throw up, but that's the vibe I got from that last scene.

And I must ask, why is "Danvers" an inside joke?

I thought it was an interesting twist that he wanted them to be happy without him. Not necessarily good interesting, but interesting nonetheless.


Linda Danvers is one of the real world/Earth names of a version of comics!Supergirl.

No comments on Tom's directing? How do you think he did?

That seemed to be what they were pushing through the whole thing, right from their initial meeting in the AU, although if it's the Kryptonian version of the holodeck, is it really an AU? Anyway, this may be the start of what Peterson (sp?) was saying in the yanked interview - the beginning of a closer relationship between Clois. The problem, as is usual with the writing on this show, is that it's simply thrown up on the screen with only minimal backstory to support it or else it needs to be wanked as part of Offscreenville. They keep throwing in these scenes of Clois friendship about 2 or 3 times a season and then she's off on her own or not mentioned for episode after episode. And from it we're supposed to think that it's going to be the real thing. Or I guess if you're the Goughlar - what Clark settles for after he screws things up with Lana. It makes no sense in light of the main narrative.
Even tonight, in which I thought ED did a mostly bang-up job, if Clark is going to become closer to her partially because of how she was in the AU, then it's Lana 2.0 again - that's not who Lois is in this world and he's just trading in one image for another. Ghod I hate what they're doing to Clark.