Lesbian ministers!

Pre-like all the way. I don't think they'll make it to the end, but I'll be rooting for them to at least get past the first three eliminations.

Pre-like here as well! Don't let me down, ladies!

I made it to the second-to-last team and said to myself "Hey, there's no gay couple!". Casting, you blew me away with this one.

Pre-like, as long as they don't go all "Ma Weaver" on me and ask God for help with every menial task.

Something tells me these ministers are much more pragmatic on spiritual assistance than most lay faithful. It's often the case, interestingly enough.

Pre-like as well; I'm getting a Team Rev (TAR 2) vibe. And thumbs for the line in the YouTube clip that "The Amazing Race is a love letter to the planet," which just may be the best comment about the show itself in a long time.

Can you say "Lesbian ministers" and not grin like an idiot about it? No. No, you can't. And yes, "love letter to the planet" rocks...as opposed to the actual letters the show sends to us, which go, "Baby, I'm sorry I keep hittin' you. We can still make this work."

I like 'em, though older teams do tend to vanish quickly, so I'll try not to grow too attached.

I tried, but I couldn't due to the irony.

I'm a little struck by the age difference, though. Sixteen years apart?! That's the second-biggest age difference I've seen on this show, the biggest being Ray & Deana.

Ah, love knows no bounds.

I started describing the teams to my Mom; she was blase on the goths, the granddad, the endless young couples... then I said 'lesbian ministers', and now she can't wait. Well done, show!

Maybe someone can help me. . .but is being an Episcopal deacon the same as being a "minister"? I know it looks much more shocking! to have them both be ministers, but in the church I grew up in a deacon was one thing and a minister was another. Ministers could be deacons, but not all deacons were ministers.

Maybe they're using "minister" in the sense of someone who ministers to other people rather than a formal title, so a deacon could be a lay minister. But I don't know. I'm not Episcopalian.

I can't remember, but while we've had a few gay male teams, is this the first lesbian team on TAR? I know it's the first lesbian minister team to ever be on TAR.

I'll probably be pulling for them, but being the oldest team probably means they'll will go early, unless they had whatever Meredith/Gretchen seemed to have, in the 7th season.

OK, as the resident Episcopalian I'll weigh in on the job titles.

Everyone is a minister. You are. I am. If you have a ministry, you are a minister. I'll even give you a pass if you don't believe in God.

A priest is obviously an ordained minister who has certain authority to bless communion and act in certain capacities on behalf of the church. "Holy Hands" as we like to call them.

A deacon is also ordained, but does not have the "Holy Hands". It can be a very thin line because a deacon does represent the church, lead worship, engage in pastoral ministry, preach, etc. but is normally under assistance/supervision from an ordained priest.

The Episcopal Church, while very liberal in many parts of the country, does not have an official gay marriage ceremony. Some priests have dispensed blessing on civil unions, but that's still under debate. The fact that they consider themselves married is a bit misleading in the sense that they were most likely not married under the canons of the Episcopal Church.

Like many denominations, gay issues are still very divisive in our church. I'm conflicted in my own views. I worship in my Episcopal church with people who hold exteme views on both sides of mine. I don't mean to hijack this thread with church politics, god knows that could go on forever, I just thought I'd put out some basic information.

Indeed they are - and only the second and third out lesbians, after Lauren in TAR10.



I think they're the first lesbian ministers on reality TV - certainly on American reality TV....

Pre-like here as well, and also a big Yay to the fact that they're actually the only married couple this season has. Now I hope they don't do something to make me hate them.

Maybe they got married in Massachusetts! In an Episcopal church. I'm sure you could find a gay or gay-friendly Episcopal minister in Boston to marry them with all the bells and whistles.

I dig Episcopalians. They're a far cry from the usual fundies you find on reality shows.

Or at an Anglican church in Canada - many welcoming congregations up here!

Marriage has three distinct meanings in my view. There's a legal definition that is at the forefront of many national debates. There's a personal definition which has to do with your intent with regards to your relationship with another person. The third meaning is the sacramental definition as established by the Canons of the church (or other religious institution).

There is no gay marriage in the Episcopal church at this time. There are some priests who have performed blessings of civil unions, but the marriage ceremony is a very specific sacrament that currently only applies to male/female relationships. What state or country you live in is irrelevent, as are what bells/whistles you choose to layer on top.

This is the last I'm going to post on the topic, but I'm happy to carry on the conversation offline via pm.

Maybe Lauren's casting two seasons ago led to Kate & Pat's casting this season.

To be fair, I can't imagine the lesbian minister dating pool is very extensive.

Not only Lesbian Ministers, but Lesbian Minister Moms! Love this team. Too bad they're probably eliminated by the first two episdoes.



Weren't one of Tian and Jaree lesbian, or was that just implied?

El Guapo, IIRC, one of them was bisexual, which isn't the same thing.

LOL! That sounds like a challenge. Or something.

Yeah. My initial reactions when perusing their CBS bio went something like this, "Ok, two older ladies. La la la... wait, what? Wait. WHAT?"

As a lesbian Episcopalian myself, I'm torn between wanting them to bring the awesomeness all the way, and fearing that they're going to put me in a constant cringe with fatigue-related hypocrisy, whining or nastiness. No reason to suspect they will, except almost every team I give my heart to breaks it into little pieces by the last leg.

I will make a prediction, though. Despite their occupations, these racers will not be constantly trying to get God out of His tub just to help them win the race. They know he has better things to do. [Seals prediction in envelope, prepared to eat words.]

Pat looks like one of those air traffic controller guys from Season 5.

Steve and Dave were from TAR4. And ouch.

Well, if this isn't original casting, I don't know what is. I'm still surprised it took this long to get a lesbian couple on (the word was there was almost one on TAR:FE....imagine Ma Weaver hearing THAT) but hey, now or never. I hope they do well, but I'm concerned as to what physical condition they are in.

This team looks as though they're strong enough to go at least the distance the Grandmothers did, or the soft Bowling Moms.

They probably won't be "flirting their way to the front..."

I definitely have some major pre-like for this team. I hope they don't go home too early.



And one of them's a Lesbian Minister Grandma! From her bio, it looks like Pat's got three grandchildren, as well.

I think Pat will be a lot more likable than Steve, and since she tends to dive into conflict, probably less whiny.

Pre-love here as well. I think the love letter to the planet cemented it for me - it's such a great characterisation of how I feel about TAR - its the ultimate adventure of a lifetime and a chance to see the world in a whole different light. Hopefully they can live up to the awesomeness they displayed there.

By the way, hi, I've been lurking for years and never posted.

Maybe they went to a Justice of the Peace, if they do gay and lesbian marriages.

The "love letter to the planet" cemented my pre-love for this team. That is the best summation for the extreme joy this show can produce that I've ever heard.

I don't mind the whining as long as the person underneath is ok. It's a stressful trip and you're bound to break now & again. Unfortunately, there are teams who aren't nice to each other from the beginning and wind up getting worse. Not saying this will be the case, but I cut people some slack since the Race is grueling and can strain even the best relationship. I doubt we'll see much or any nastiness from this couple. But then again, who would have thought we'd see Jonathan leading a group of singing kids in Africa up a hill on the way to the finish line?

I'm not Episcopalian, but I thought the Anglican church made the Episcopal church give up its more liberal stance on gay marriage & acceptingness on matters of same-sex relationships.

In a preview video they said that they 'had their union blessed' three years ago. That sounds different to a formal marriage, but maybe someone who knows more about it can fill us in.

It's complicated. Way complicated. Way, way, wa-a-a-a-ay complicated. But so far, we haven't given up much, except a vaguely worded assurance not to approve the election of any more openly gay bishops. (Note that nobody is insisting that we stop ordaining gay priests or deacons.)

The Episcopal church does not have an approved marriage rite for gay couples, but that doesn't stop individual priests from blessing their commitments. Many bishops are willing to allow such ceremonies to occur in their dioceses, and some bishops (including mine) have even presided at such blessings. As far as I know, the Diocese of Massachusetts has not tried to formalize a wedding liturgy for gay couples who can legally marry in that state, but I'm pretty sure that many if not most parish priests there would be happy to preside at a blessing once the legal work is done at the courthouse.

The Anglican Church in Canada is wrestling with the same issues, as gay marriage is legal nationwide.

Rest assured, Gene Robinson is still the (openly gay) Bishop of New Hampshire, and Pat & Kate can exercise their ministries and be in a blessed and cherished relationship, even though a few dry old sticks think it's icky. Though I'm not sure how they got the time off for the race....

TAR 2's Cyndi and Russell (Team Rev), who are married pastors at the same church in Minnesota, managed and were able to keep secret the fact that they were filming TAR 2. So I'm sure there were ways.

I've heard that one of the kids from Kid Nation made up the excuse that he was participating in a science program for 8 weeks. Luckily, his Dad was on the (private) school's board of directors. That is no longer the case.

Man, Pat's voice is deep. We're talking Bea Arthur deep.

That makes me like her even more - Bea Arthur kicks ass.

Oddly, they dropped the "i" word, "integrity," a couple of times in their Buddy TV interview, and I wasn't bothered by it.

Her voice isnt that deep.

I would think minister would be one of the easier occupations from which to explain a six-week absence. They were simply on a "mission."

I like them, but wouldn't it be AMAZING if some season they had more than one token gay couple? We have the Asian team, the black team, and the gay team. This show is getting so predictable. I hope this team goes far.

First time posting over in this forum and this will be my first time watching the show because I actually know these two. They are the parents of my sister's husband.

I love that The Amazing Race again shows respect for a gay couple (as with Chip and Reichen) and uses the word married, being respectful of how the couple defines themselves. Yet another reason I love this show.

And unlike Chip and Reichen, this marriage looks like it's in for the long run.

They looked so romantic together, but the lack of mat chat from them when they were at the Pit Stop with Ronald & Christina tonight made me think they're not getting a long-lasting edit.

Still, I think they raced pretty well with the hand they were dealt and did a pretty good job on this leg, eighth place notwithstanding.


Are they as nice as they came off in this episode?

I actually thought that they'd be the first Philimination, so they've already exceeded my expectations dramatically. I still expect a 7th or 8th place finish, though.

I took the opposite view of their mat chat. The lack of showing them makes me think they'll last longer than some of the other couples, we'll see more of them later on.

They seem very nice, and I appreciated their enjoying the beauty around them, instead of yelling at each other and acting like they hate everything.

As soon as one of the mentioned that just because they are ministers/Christians doesn't mean they are going to give someone their cab, I automatically was on their side. My type of ministers!

Still, they really seem to be going along slowly; always walking and never running. I hope they pick it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if they go soon.

I the, "We're not wimps for God." And while they won't give up their cab, neither will they take someone else's either.

Too sugary sweet for my taste. What can I say, I like my racers rough around the edges.