In my view, DWTS has been evolving in a trend toward younger and younger contestants and stars, and further and further away from true ballroom dancing. The English version is holding more true to ballroom I hope -- and then I'd like to see it over here (why can't we see it if they are watching ours??) ABC's rather shallow view of what will boost ratings may be true, but it won't be good television (but what is anymore?)

As for Maks' expressed wish to move on, I am not the least surprised that anyone would want to get back to anything that has more artistic standards, challenges a professional's talents, and enriches ones soul more than this shallow tv show can. DWTS is going the way of everything on the "wasteland" and appealing to lower and lower levels of intellect and performance quality. Now they are "dumbing us down" on ballroom dancing, of all things.

Yes, Maksim has been very spontaneously popular with many, many viewers and done DWTS much good by being on the show. But what possible good (other than connections) is it doing for him?

I have cringed at watching Maksim (and Karina and others) dancing with amateurs with varying inabilities for dance. I also have felt gypped by the very few seconds of true professional dancing we are allowed to see -- as the camera pans off to the singers or the orchestra for God's sake.

I applaud Maksim's intentions of getting more involved in more serious use of his talents. I totally understand his disappointments at dealing with the DWTS' phoney and superficial offerings, and I certainly don't think it will do him anything but contribute to a mroe fulfilling life to move on from this dilgression and get back to true choreography and dancing. I see his motivation in terms of a more European bent toward the arts as opposed to the superficial American model of competing with American Idol of all things!!!

greenknees - Agree with you 100%. The show is moving in a direction that I despise. They want a younger demographic, let them have it and see how fickle those viewers are. In the meantime, the true viewers will leave. We watched the show for ballroom and they are trying to dumb it down. What a shame.

Well maybe dumbing down ballroom was not the proper phrase. Perhaps getting off the true ballroom dance track is what we meant. Not incorporating hip hop etc. A few of us were just wondering why Maks and Mel were not being showcased as in when the camera panned the dancers on results show lineup, they did not even show Maks and Mel. They are rarely in video clips and if they are it is very short. Very short confessionals too. This was just an observation and we were asking why? As a competitor I am sure he is enjoying the show.

I am sure Maks wanted to do the show in the first few seasons for many reasons, which none of know for sure. His fans never claimed it was beneath his artistic standards. He says he enjoys promoting ballroom dance. It is the last few seasons he has made remarks. Possibly for PR reasons. Who knows? After four seasons though he may truly be physically and mentally tired. Living out of a suitcase for 4 months at a time can be tiring. He has said in the past he misses NJ. Maks recently said he wanted to go back to competing. Ana T did the same thing. IT is in their blood.

Will the show ratings go down if he is not on on? Probably some but not enough to make a difference to TPTB. It will just be a change that some people won't like. TV shows only stay on so long. Often when they start to change things, like adding hip hop and flash, and deviate from the original, the show starts to fade. Who knows - it is reality TV

His fans were just discussing what fans discuss for reality tv. Maks is not the only star pro, just our favorite.

The motivation to move on would be to seek a more fulfilling life, not artsy-fartsy snobbery. As he says, he's just not a Hollywood kind of guy. And he fully credits the show with helping his business enterprises. Please don't make this into a sour-grapes or ego-driven story that it fully is NOT.

The fact that DWTS will continue and do well as it gets less and less about real ballroom is more a sad commentary on American viewers than any credit to the show. Therein lies the rub . . . . high numbers over quality, IMO. This is a comment on TELEVISION and the very low standards/preferences of the American public.

TPTB would rather a lascivious, provocative, morally empty programs that have high ratings than edifying programs that contribute to society in a positive way. Appease the dumbest in the audience rather than enlighten them.

The further one gets from this "mass" media, the more one might possibly have a chance for creativity, intelligence, and meaningful expression.

I disagree that because there are new very-young dancers, that's the reason the show is moving away from ballroom fundamentals. That process has been encouraged by Bruno and Carrie Ann giving better scores for razzmatazz. It was Kym Johnson who played to Joey's strength, tricks and showy-ness. And Julianne WON using a lot of same. It's what ABC wants.

And I even disagree that all the young ones ignore the syllabus. Even Mark and the Jive: Len remarked that there was a LOT of textbook jive in the dance - in all his dances. Derek includes even more. Those kids are well-trained in fundamentals and they could follow it to the letter, if the show wanted them to. All three of them have won international ballroom contests, judged by experts. To me, it's the females who more generally push the envelope with the splits and such, especially Edyta and Julianne, but also Kym, I believe, and Karina?

And all the pro's, even the new ones, would adhere more strictly if they were admonished to do so by the judges, and marked down for not doing it. It almost seems like the opposite is true - they fussed at Marie for doing a gentle, strict dance -- and at Joey for his textbook Waltz -- etc.

And speaking of moving away from basics, it was MAKS who ignored the "no break" Tango rule and got admonished for it. He put hip-hop in his and Mel's first dance. He's as guilty as anybody else, to my mind, and he would have used more razzmatazz with Laila if she could have done it. Oh, and I heard the judges were furious at him for not helping Laila up in the middle of their Waltz. His whole style in general seems to be moving away from traditional ballroom, because he's a showboater, to an extent, and doesn't follow the traditional "showcase the woman" rule as much and seems to be doing a lot of flashy moves to draw attention to himself. Well, I realize that's an opinion, but it's the main reason I don't like to watch him dance that much.

We seem to be agreeing. The direction of the producers of the show, including its implementation by the judges, is toward flash, show, high-speed, high jumps, and hijinks. I often get the feeling -- especially with the Cheettahhhh girl -- that I'm watching someone trying to entertain kindergartners at a birthday party. Clownish.

And whoever is the source of this trend -- some say the couple who taught Julianne, Derek, and Mark -- is doing a disservice even to ballroom, IMO. Call me a traditionalist and a fuddy-duddy, but few "modern" routines give me joy.

A trick performed every 5 seconds is no substitute for a beautiful story told through physical movement to express music. The latter is classic, includes inventive movement, and strikes one's emotions, not one's titillation zone.

And yes, I saw that Maks did some as well -- and I think it's sad.

Sorry if you felt I was being accusative -- I may have misread the intent of earlier posts - blaming the young for the change in style, when I don't think that's the case. And it was strongly in evidence in Season 4 (and amply rewarded) before the two new guys were even here (though I'm sure they watched and saw what was scoring well and what wasn't.)

You know who I think is the best at keeping to the proper spirit and form of whatever dance it is, and the one who "showcases the woman" the best of all the pro's (with the possible exception of Jonathan?) It's Derek Hough.

First, the pros have been accused of too much junk and not enough dance all the way back to Stacy with Tony. Maybe even Alec with Kelly Monaco, but I didn't watch much of that season. Plus, every single season that I have watched, the female pros paired with the oldsters (George Hamilton, Jerry Springer, etc.) have used tricks and props to disguise the age and infirmity of their partners.

Second, the whole Len-accuses-Maks-of-not-properly-presenting-Laila was a rumor, started by somebody or other who didn't like Maks, and replays showed it was absolutely not true and that Len was talking about something else, because he didn't like that the choreography left her napping on the stage at the end of the waltz or something.

Third, Maks was not accused of not using the syllabus or putting too many tricks into the tango with Tia. Len accused him of doing too Argentinian a tango, rather than the International or American (not sure which?) tango he was supposed to be doing. That seemed pretty ridiculous at the time, considering what other people were already doing (again, see the pro females with older partners) and the fact that those of us at home were not privy to the rules, anyway, and we didn't know what anybody was supposed to be dancing.

I also think the claim that Maks does tricks to show off his own abilities rather than framing his partner is ridiculous considering Mark Ballas's worm, Julianne's and Edyta's and Kym's flips and splits and contortions, and everybody else's tricks. I don't see Maks pushing himself at the expense of his partner in any of his dances with Tia or Willa, and the only one I can remember with Laila where that might even be arguably true was the paso doble where he did that leap, which, by the way, tons of men do in paso and it IS supposed to be the man's dance. AND, at that point, Laila's knees were killing her and people were screeching at Maks to put in tricks because his dances were more boring than everybody else, so he was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Mark Ballas is getting bouquets for being such a great guy that he did his worm just to give Sabrina a breather, then Maks ought to get the same benefit of the doubt for his dances with Laila, since Sabrina is in much better shape (at least in terms of her knees) than Laila was.

Jonathan? I don't know. I honestly can't remember any of Jonathan's dances except with Heather Mills, and those were so sloppy and unappealing to my eyes that I just don't know about him. Or Derek, for that matter. Before we deify Derek, let's remember that his first two dances with Jennie were disastrous. I think we should let them get past more than the tango and the paso doble (which is, again, supposed to be the man's dance) before we start handing him a halo.

Of the male pros, I think Maks is just as generous as anybody, and just as capable of using tricks, if his partner is up to them. He could hardly toss Laila around like a kleenex, and Tia had just had a baby. He got dinged for one sort of lift with Willa in the jive that was SO much less than Louis did with Monique or Julianne has already done this year or Jonathan did with Heather in any routine. Again, rock and a hard place. If he doesn't, he's boring. If he does, he's selfish or he's breaking the rules.

I wouldn't call their first dance disastrous. TPTB felt they were good enough to be the first dance of the season, and they got decent scores. Their second dance, the quickstep, was fine until the fall. Then they have had two very strong weeks. I'm not sure how someone praising Derek as one of the best of the pros is deifying him. None of these dancers are perfect, but they can still be praised.

As for Jonathan, they always give him female partners who have big liabilities. He's a superb teacher and a strong choreographer who is never given a chance to showcase that beyond TPTB using him to prop up the female celebrities who need help.

I would disagree that the new pro dancers have cheapened the show or ruined some purity of dance. The show has never been pure dance. The show, cheesy from the beginning, has still drawn many, many people into wanting to learn to dance. Beyond the tricks and the showing off, TPTB have often relied upon the chemistry between couples instead of focusing on the fundamentals. Maksim himself was involved in this during season three, when TPTB focused more on his supposed hookup with Willa Ford, and Mario's hookup with Karina. This cheapened the show far more than any worm moves ever could, in my opinion, and Maks never seemed very comfortable with it.

These posts were in the Maks thread, but I thought they deserved their own thread, because it's an interesting topic. So here it is! Continue the discussion here.

I hope this fits here because I can't think where else it would -- you know what I think may change on dwts in the future? I think they'll go to the new British way of voting. The judges and fans' votes are combined, each counting 50%, and then the bottom two have a dance-off and the JUDGES ONLY choose who stays.

And why I think it may be coming to the US is that now Tom Bergeron is asking the judges who they think should stay or go of the bottom two. I wondered why on earth they would do such a pointlessly rude thing. I mean, the decision's already made so why rub it in? Unless it's to prepare the viewers for the next step - and if someone good, like Mel or Sabrina or whoever, goes too soon (however they define that), then it will be even more likely that we'll go to the British Strictly Come Dancing method.

I wish we would because it would help prevent a star who has a juggernaut of fans but otherwise doesn't deserve to win from taking the trophy, or even just overstaying his or her welcome, and maybe embarrassing the show. They seem a bit touchy about this - I've read where Len was upset about Paulina and Shandi last season, and they're probably mystified about Mel right now. However, this is a very strong field - only Mark is clearly substandard, imo.

And I did want to get back to the exact original subject and add one point: if they'd ever intended this to be "strictly ballroom" dancing I don't think they would have hired two choreographers as judges (and only one with ballroom judging experience.) And they wouldn't use rock and roll and pop music, either, I don't think, but traditional ballroom music. So I think it was always intended to be a combination of show-dance and ballroom.

But that is the entire premise of the show. I also love to see the beautiful pro spotlight numbers, but if one's only interest is in seeing highly-trained, talented professionals perform the dances, wouldn't one be better served by America's Ballroom Challenge and similar?

I am alright with tricks if the celebrity is infirm. Still, not everybody goes that route. Cheryl had a partner who was virtually immobile and she continued to do her best to simply dance with him. I think that's right. I didn't care for Joey Fatone/Kym, but Kym did dance some nice legitimate routines with Jerry Springer. The music and themes were cheesey, but she had him doing basics. The waltz, the tango.

I become really pissed at a celebrity who is in prime physical shape, has some facility for dancing, but believes trick are more entertaining than learning and executing ballroom properly. There's an arrogance there that turns me off but it's up to the audience to like it or not. Perhaps I should amend that - I get pissed when there's a pro and a celebrity who together could deliver in the spirit of a ballroom competition and put in tricks. Especially when the tricks show up in ballroom dances, such as the quickstep or the Vienese waltz.

Yes, Bruno and Carrie Ann do seem to reward tricks these days. However, in my eyes, Jonathan did seem to be dragging a corpse around the floor. Marie did many nice things but her characterization, if not the execution of the dance itself, somewhat evoked the living dead. The dead rose color of her dress didn't help.

If the judges became the deciding vote the audience would be out for blood. It was bad enough Season 1 when much of the media, not to mention the voters, didn't seem to understand that the outbreak of tens for Kelly Monaco's stumbly free style did not determine the win.

I'd like to see a situation where the person with the highest judges score at the end of finals doesn't win. The judges always contrives to have the winner in first place or tied for first place. I don't believe it's an accident.

So much of DWTs panders to what ABC thinks the audience wants. Not simply the youth of the pros - they really did a bit of a Logan's Run in that department, didn't they, as well as get rid of standard specialists - but the scores. I think the Brit audience can stand watching a competition where most are getting 4's and 5's. We, ABC presumes, can't. We expect tens. We expect each season to be stronger than previous, and Len tells us so.

The one change I'd love will never happen - DWTs has become a lot like American Idol - a venue for product placement. It's not enough we have a lot of commercials, there are commercials throughout. An AT&T product placement in the rehearsal clips. ABC talent overpowering the "audience response" feature.


Amen. Just the last two dances have done it for me. Him being from the Hough and Ballas camps yet this is his approach to the contest. Love.

I find Jonathan's choreography a little too cartoonish. Bruno and Carrie Ann noticed it too. If you watched Marie's waltz you'd notice that the camera was focus on the face and not of her dancing. Their dancing was blah for what little bits they showed us. No, It wasn't good.

I want to add that DWTS has taken pains this year, I believe, to use more ballroom dancers as the Results Show entertainment for which I am totally grateful. I'm forgetting their names now, but I've appreciated the move immensely -- until last week anyway.

I recall how much fun the big group pro dances ala the Mambo and the Jive from earlier season were for me as a fan. Now that seems reserved for a combined star-pro number when the numbers are down to being manageable.

But the maturing audience seems to be pushing for 90 seconds of heat -- and so it will go.

I read in someone's commentary something that may just set the limits on this show: When working with new amateurs each season, there is just a physical limit on how many moves we can expect folks to incorporate in each dance. Thus they begin to look familiar which is deadly.

Anyway, the comment that the Ballroom Channel might be a better place to see the great dances is a true one -- and DVD's as well. Perhaps the dancing community will catch on to this and produce more lovely DVD's or even create a more widely available channel about dancing in general -- including ballroom.

Unfortunately, I see little ahead for DWTS except more and more superficial and less and less audience. The voters will become more and more 5, 6, and 7th graders, I suspect. I guess that from the obvious age level of the ABC Forum on the subject.

Jonathan choreography is a bit cartoonish - I recall a split-legged headstand for Rachel Hunter during a samba.

But this meshes perfectly with Marie. She's probably his best celeb partner. Their sensibilities, feel for characterization and timing work well together. He seems more at ease with her than any previous celeb partner, even Heather.

I would VERY MUCH like to see the British (and other country's) versions of DWTS just to get the variety of production and judging that would likely show up.

As an aside I don't think we are ever going to see the same kind of judging on the American version as is on the International versions. My guess is that they probably don't think American audiences will want to watch people only get 5's, 6's and 7's--and I kind of think in this they are right. People want to watch people be succesful, not be mediocre. I'm not trying to generalize, but my guess is that the American producers are a bit scared that if 10's are taken off the map that people will start tuning out.

Then again, the scoring on our version has always been high so I don't consider that a change.

My guess is that they don't think the celebrities on the American show will stand still for such low scores, and that celeb recruiting will take a hit once the other ones out there see their fellows getting 3s and 4s.

Note that we had a major league pro athlete in seasons 2 (Jerry Rice), 3 (Emmitt) and 4 (Clyde Drexler) but not this season. Wonder why? Maybe some pro basketball or football players saw how Clyde was treated. And I'm not saying they should've given him 10s or handled him with kid gloves. But they weren't very nice, either. And if I'm Charles Barkley or Muggsy Bogues and I saw how Clyde Drexler, one of the true gentlemen of the game, came off, maybe I wouldn't be so fast to do DWTS and make a fool of myself.

I agree with arlykeeno's post. Clyde is an NBA legend and it is pretty humbling for an elite athlete. But I felt Len and other judges treated him more like a Master P. I think he was trying, just tough when the producers give him Elena versus Kym and he was bad knees from years of playing professional basketball.

Overall, the show's clear desire to push for Sabrina bugs and I am happier w/the push for more actual professional dancers during the results show.

I thought Clyde was treated well, considering how lazy he was and how shocked he was to receive criticism.

They do have some sports names this year (Floyd, Helio). If they're running out of names, that might be due to a limited number of athletes who wanted to go on the show in the first place.


Didn't this season open with one of the biggest pro numbers they've ever had?



That's how the ABC forum has been from the beginning. The biggest problem I have, and have always had, with DWTS is the fixation on whether or not any of the partners are dating or fooling around in real life. This started with "Suxy", then the same happened with Drew and Cheryl (at one point half the ABC forum posters claimed he was gay and the other half claimed he was cheating on his pregnant wife with Cheryl - Drew must've been a very, very busy boy to be gay *and* cheating with Cheryl on a wife he impregnated), then Mario/Karina and Willa/Maks, and finally "Apolianne" from last season. Their dancing became a distant afterthought to whether they were true love forever.

The more attention becomes focused on that aspect, the less interest I have in a season. I'm glad this season hasn't had any of the same focus.

That might also be due to those immature fans on the boards. They are now excited about a Sabrina/Mark romance. Maybe some ABC intern should direct TPTB to the thoughts on this board.

One thing I missed was Anna, but she was back. Hopefully back again this year. I want Louis as a judge to return the focus on real dance critiques.

The show going one twice a year is removing a bit of the excitement. Maybe they should go back to once a year.

I read of one pro athlete declining to participate because he felt after Emmitt's season no athlete was going to match that.

Clyde was a terrible dancer and showed no improvement. I don't think he was treated poorly. He couldn't dance. And his height was a challenge.

Floyd may have gotten a bad edit, although I was always disconcerted by "I don't want to let Karina down." The heck? I hope she didn't set that up. The bad edit is because on one of the post-show on line video clips, he was pretty charming and funny. He was relaxed and undefensive about everything while being interviewed, Karina got coquettish and showed the camera a tatoo really low on her hip and Floyd said God Karina, cut it out, I don't want your boyfriend beating me up. He sounded exasperated and sweet, not smarmy. Because he's a boxer, I suspect he may have been encouraged to front with the "Kill the judges, I need my respect!" bullshit. There's no question certain things are solicited by the producers. Shanna Moakler said she was told to say "I'm not going home tonight!" She said as soon as she said it she knew she was going home that night.

Speaking of showmance, some at the abc boards started a thread upset that Jenny kissed her husband after the paso. While they thought it was disrespectful to Derek, it was difficult not to wonder it what they were really peeved about was she didn't allow them to fantasize that she really wanted Derek.

Note that I said "major league athlete." I was trying to indicate major professional sports like football, basketball and baseball. Boxing and race car driving are not the same, and neither is an Olympic sport like speedskating. Floyd may've come on the show because he saw Laila. But will we get more pro basketball or football players? Besides, the pro athletes we've had who were huge in their huge sports were also all retired.

Emmitt said he did the show because Jerry Rice told him he should, and Clyde said he did the show because Emmitt and Jerry told him it was a good time. Clyde not having a good time means that the next pro athlete of that status may decline because Clyde advises him not to go there.

Whether or not Clyde deserved the treatment he got is irrelevant in my mind. Professional athletes of a certain level of prominence (which Jerry Rice, Emmitt and Clyde had all attained) are treated like gods by just about everybody, so getting criticized and told their dancing is crap is just not likely to fly. I'm not saying that the fact that they are so protected and pampered and flattered in the rest of their lives is right or wrong, but it is what they're used to. If you get Emmitt Smith or Jerry Rice or Clyde Drexler or Michael Jordan or Nolan Ryan or Hank Aaron to do your charity event and you stick them at the worst table in the room or don't have a place for them at all or don't give them a goodie bag when everybody else gets one, do you think they will come back to do your charity event next year?

Again, I'm not saying that Clyde didn't deserve his scores (or worse than his scores) but that from his perspective and from the perspective of other high-level professional football, basketball or baseball players who may be considering the show, the way Clyde fared and was treated is not a strong advertisemet.

It's just my opinion as to why they don't hand out low scores here. Because our celebs wouldn't take kindly to it, and we would have a complete lineup of Willa Fords, Albert whatever-his-name-wases and Shanna Moaklers. I personally don't care one way or the other whether they can attract A-list celebs. But I think the producers do.

I don't think ABC discourages any of this "showmance" and may even see it as a ratings enhancement. Last season they kept scheduling personal appearances for Apolo and Julianne all over the place. You would see them at movie premieres, sporting events (like the Kentucky Derby), and they even were paired at Apolo's birthday celebrations,(there were several). Why all this is necessary for a celebrity dancing show is beyond me. But these networks fight tooth and nail for every ratings point they can grasp.

I thought Emmitt and Jerry were both given a hard time by the judges, more Jerry than Emmitt, because they kept criticizing Jerry almost up to the finale. What I respected most about them is they accepted criticism as a challenge, they stood up for themselves while still having respect for the process. Clyde never seemed to have the same respect. He was offended when the judges criticized him.

I know what you're saying, but I hope athletes would listen to Emmitt or Jerry more than Clyde. I think Clyde was a big casting blunder. Maybe they changed their policies on which athletes to cast after his season (even if Floyd also didn't exactly work out).

One improvement I see this season is the pro dancers. I think both of the new pro dancers are great, and they've helped their partners, in Derek's case he's helped his partner immensely. Usually every season there's a pro who doesn't fit in, but this season I haven't felt that way, even if Alec and Julianne are the pros I enjoyed the least this time around.

I know the season is still early, but I have noticed there are less group pro numbers, but I have a few theories on that. I don't think it has anything to do with the decline of the show. For one, a lot of those numbers in earlier seasons (maybe not last so much) were choreographed by Louis. Louis seems to have less and less to do with the show as the seasons wear on.

But further I think one of the biggest reasons is time. As the seasons progress I think the pros are more and more focused on their partners. We've heard them claim every year that the amount the celebs rehearse becomes more and more. As the focus on the show gets more intense and the competition stiffer, the celebs/pros put in more rehearsal time. So I would think that while it doesn't take too long to learn a pro number, it probably gets harder and harder to get all the pros together to choreograph/learn/practice an all pro number. There just isn't as much time.

So I think lack of time is more to blame for less all pro numbers, or at least for the current pros that are still on the show.

Please don't discuss other forums here.

harvestbasket, I agree the show should be on once a year, and NEVER ever compete with American Idol for ratings.

Yes, I will miss Maksim not being on the show. There's one man who is a great dancer with a marvelous body. Ummmm...



If you ask my husband, he would say the costumes of the pros and many celebrities is the titillation zone. I wonder if there will be a drop in the ratings because they are up against Monday Night Football?



This is what makes the show click. Many do identify with some of the celebrities who struggle and get better (or not). As SD Dude states, this is the entire premise of the show. There is a balance with the talent level of the celebrities. Also, having a contestant who just had a baby is another scheme which works out quite well. Kinda of an inspirational thing.



willmore, do the dancers have any control over camera angles? I guess I am enjoying the show so much, I don't mind what the camera is doing for Marie.

Alright, I'll admit how happy I was to see Wade on the show this past week. The results shows ARE entertaining, although there was too much time on Wayne's singing and not enough on the dancers.

ETA: repeat of sentence

I hate dance shows where the camera isolates the feet or focuses on the face.

It was a mistake seventy years ago until Fred Astaire started to insist the camera frame the dancers in full and dispense with insert shots, and here we are and they always go back to insert shots of madly tapping feet or of a head being thrown back. It just can't compete with a camera that stays out of the way and lets us watch them dance.

Predictability is increasing with each year, which is a problem for the show. The bottom line is that most of the audience has caught on to the fact that merit has no bearing on this contest. That being said, it truly takes the motivation for watching out of it for me. Changes that might increase the merit factor and reduce the predictability might actually help the show, as would less filler.

To reduce the predictability, I'm guessing ABC would have to increase the influence of REAL judges (with competency in assessing total ballroom performance -- technique AND showmanship) instead of the group now in place.

Getting back to the athletes, my view is that Jerry Rice was very stiff and awkward, almost a bad as Clyde, but the voters kept him on (or ABC did). How he ended up in the finals instead of Stacey is beyond me--perhaps the greatest example of prejudicial public voting.

All this talk of ABC pushing showmances and catering to a younger demo is a noticeable change in the show. I am not a fan of two DWTS per season, but I was thankful for season 4 coming after season 3. All the drama from season 3 was removed quickly by the charming group of season 4. I hope ABC would push for more entertainment like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5hXE99nydsI

There were a lot of unnecessary changes, IMO, with season 7. More than the celebs or any pro, it is how the show has changed this season that stands out to me. I am afraid it is not going to go back to the earlier season though. I was all for Pasha, Anya or Dimitry from SYTYCD to join the show but as soon as they added Lacey from that SYTYCD pool, it has changed it for me. Lacey is fine dancer, but not an exceptional ballroom dancer, IMO. Her style is symbolic, to me, of the dumbing down of the ballroom portion of the show and I do not think it'll stop. By having the stars do a social dance (jitterbug and salsa) instead of redoing a standard dance, I do not think the show is interested that much in being a ballroom dance show anymore. Maks mentioned in his blog and I agree with him. Even the freestyles this week should be entertaining but I wish it would go back to the earlier seasons where the non-ballroom dances were in the freestyle round only.

I'm disappointed with this season's changes too. I thought the whole idea of the show was to elevate the public's understanding of ballroom, not to dumb down ballroom in order to turn it into something else. I didn't see a need for changing that original concept, but apparently the producers did. I'm a little hurt that they were willing to sacrifice viewers like me in order to attract ones that want to see Lacey style of dancing. But, in the end, it must have been successful, and I agree that there's probably no plans to return to form. Oh well, I enjoyed the show for about 4 years, that was a good run.

The whole idea of the show is to get high ratings and score ad revenues.

What has been dumbed down in the competition part of the show that hasn't been "dumbed down" since season one? Love or Hate Lacey, her "style" has nothing to do with anything. She fits in with the cast of pros on her skills just fine. The only exceptional "ballroom" dancers have been Louis, Karina and Charlotte. (Some will protest that Tony belongs in their ranks but he did Rhythm: big fish, little pond.) Even then, I might add, it made me wince sometimes to see Karina do Standard and Charlotte do Latin. Oh, yeah. (I didn't include Louis-as-causing-winces-in-Standard only because I honestly don't remember. I wouldn't be surprised. That's just the way it works.)

The "change" that drove me from the show was the over-scripting. They scripted bits and pieces of season one - and it was such a bad script, it was hilarious and transparent. Season two everyone was giddy that their throw-away summer show had been a hit. They started to try to polish things up but didn't have the hang of it yet, so to me it was still pretty charming. Season three is when the micromanaging of the "stories" really took off and my enjoyment started to wane. It's been downhill since. Honestly, the show is what it is and the competition part isn't much different than it has always been. (The results show is another matter.) Blaming a pro and his or her "style" really doesn't stand up to objective scrutiny.

Tom B. used to say that what makes DWTS special is that they let things just unfold. IMO, this is not the case this season. It is more obvious. Lance/Lacey were given the story arc for this season because I think they represent the change the show wants which is to be hipper, younger. Thus crowning Lance/Lacey (most likely) this Tuesday. Lacey is not the downfall of DWTS but she represents, to me, the direction the show wants to go. From the results thread: I agree with this and a big change I see.

I do not think the show would have hired Lacey as a pro unless they wanted to look hipper and coveting that young demo. Otherwise, it would have just been Inna who is the same age as Lacey and a far better dancer to fill that young female pro spot. This was noticeable during season 5 but even more so this season. Predictability or the show feeling stale comes from being on back to back. Everyone knows fan base is the biggest factor so one already knew Kristi won last season. Same with this season. I do agree with the part of the show now is forcing more arcs, etc to make things appear less stale. Lance and Lacey combined probably have the biggest fan base so no matter how much Len hates them (of course now he is a fan, shocker), it goes back to that overscripting. The producers do not want another boring predictable season so you give Lance and Lacey their story.

I like to catergorize season 7 as the season of changes. Some good some bad:

Bad changes:
-13 stars (why give the male celebs an extra chance of winning? Keep it 12: 6 men, 6 woman, that's fair.)
- 2 dances 1st week. It burnt the celebs out and gave them 1 less day for Week 2.
-WCS and Hustle. Nuff said. Week 5 would have been so much better if they only added Jitterbug and Salsa. 4 couples do Salsa, 4 do Jitterbug.
- The mix of Dance schedule. We all liked the Week 3 Tango/Jive, Week 4 Paso/Viennese Waltz, Week 5 Samba/Rumba. Why change what we thought felt right?
- Filler results show. It almost feels like a variety show and then at 9:50, it's OMG it's DWTS results.

Good changes:
- Team Dance. I was opposed at first but it was a good challenge and a nice addition, IMO. YMMV.
- Jitterbug and Salsa. I like how they are new dances but cousins of Mambo and Jive. WCS and Hustle just felt too SYTYCD.

Apparently DWTS is striving to become a ballroom competition show about as much as Survivor is an outdoor survival show.

If one were to say Lindy & Salsa (or facsimiles thereof) belong on the show while WCS and Hustle do not because the former are more tv-friendly and the pros can fake them better, not to mention the learning curve and technique are better/easier in the former, I could whole-heartedly agree.

However, WCS and Hustle are no further away from "ballroom" than Lindy and Salsa. Not that we've seen a real Lindy or salsa from the celebs, but you get my drift. WCS, Hustle, Lindy, Salsa, Argentine tango all have 30-70 (or more) year histories as social partner dances.

Is "too SYTYCD" supposed to mean they aren't "real ballroom?" The vast majority of things called by those names on SYTYCD were poor approximations, true, but that was because SYTYCD usually failed big time whenever it came to their partner dances.

Whether called "ballroom" or "club" they are in the same extended family and not like "contemporary," "Hip Hop" or SYTYCD's ridiculous "Broadway" category. History, culture, music and the kind of partnership going on all bind the dances we have seen on DWTS together into a family. Some of them might not go over well with the audience or be boring or too hard to present/teach, but they are not poor cousins of "real ballroom."

If one wants to restrict the competition to the big 10 (International), that's a legitimate desire. It never has been restricted to purely International style, though. And for the sake of continued ratings, that's probably a good thing. It's just that "too SYTYCD" doesn't honestly mean anything when one understands the family tree of these dances.

I'm not sure the show has changed, but my desire to watch it certainly has. It's boring now. I watch it for about five minutes, and then I lose interest. No, I don't feel that way about all shows now. I just find this show is played out. This season I began recognizing moves, tricks, and outfits that each pro had used before with earlier contestants, and that was a turn off. The contrived dramatic storylines during the rehearsal packages seem recycled as well. DWTS appears past its best before date, and staleness is now a big problem.

On the plus side, we still got a Dance Center this season, but we didn't have to sit through Guillermo.

::veering sharply:: I've watched DWTS since Season 2. The biggest change for me has been that since the end of Season 3, I've been unable to vote by phone. We got rid of our land-line between Seasons 3 and 4. Starting with the first episode of Season 4, our household's 3 Verizon cellphones -- which had been perfectly acceptable to DWTS's phone system up till then -- suddenly became unworkable for voting purposes. On the rare occasions when I can even get a call through, I'm always told that I've already used up all my votes. None of the tricks for getting through that other cellphone users have recommended have worked for me. Screw you, AT&T!

Most of the time, I just try not to think about it, because if I dwelled on it, systematic exclusion would piss me off too much to allow me to watch DWTS.

However, this year, I have my little revenge. I am proud to cast for DWTS exactly as many People's Choice votes as the phone votes DWTS has allowed me to cast since the beginning of Season 4: a big, fat 0.

I may have missed the discussion on it but has anyone clocked the length of the dances this season? They definitely seem to be getter shorter. Are they even a minute long?