Justin, NOOOOOOOO!

I feel like the show is starting to lapse into a parody of itself.

Wow, awkward. What's the over/under on the timing of the Rebecca/Justin hookup? Love that they're watching The Hills, though.

Lots of predictable stuff, but still handled well and (of course) acted well. Maybe they will play out in less predictable ways.

So, was that 'the hills' they were watching and laughing at? Because.. genius.

Oh son of a bitch.. they went there. Show, you f***ing went there, Twice!!! Justin, they had to go there. Why not show him beating it instead of giving in? Tommy, I can't believe they did it. I knew it was coming, and I still didn't believe it. Crap!!!

I love this show, but I'm pissed and the show is sleeping on the couch this week.

Writers! What are you thinking? Justin? Tommy? Saul?

There wasn't enough of the road-tripping for my taste.



Agreed.

Meh, they went there(Re: Tommy and Lena)

Not this addiction thing again!

By far the highlights were the women at the spa and crashing the wedding. "We're being lock-blocked". "Well that went well"

I can't believe TV writers are still trotting out the

shouting-match / "Well, that went well" / fade to commercial

cliché. Aren't this show's writers supposed to be better than that?

I get the feeling that the series is in no position to sneer at the plotting of daytime soap operas.

What has happened to Rebecca's hair?

Why does she want to look like Lois Lane from Smallville?

Why, Rebecca?

I feel as if this show took everything that I did NOT want to happen, and put it in this episode.

I'm surprised by the complains. I thought this was one of the best episodes in a long time. Haven't enjoyed an hour of TV this much in quite awhile.

The spa road trip, Kevin/Saul, and Justin/Rebecca were all fantastically written.

Tommy/Lena was totally predictable, yeah. But otherwise--I was a big fan.

I was coming back from the kitchen (pouring another glass of wine, dammit show) and missed the seconds before Holly yelled at Tommy. Did we see/know exactly what happened between him and Lena?

I want a CorkPops with the splatter shield that Tommy had. Mine makes a little red wine spray if I'm not careful.

What did Emily VanCamp do to piss off the hair department? Can't say I'm a big fan of the big bangs. I thought it was pretty obvious when Justin was so defensive that he was headed downhill, although using the other guy's pain meds was a surprise. And a federal offense as well.

It was so campy, but I laughed in spite of myself at the mother martyr stuff. What adult daughter hasn't been manipulated in those ways?

I dunno, I never thought the show's writers were its strongest point. And this episode, once again, demonstrates that its incredibly strong acting ensemble carries through some rather cliched plotlines.

Although I gotta say, I never thought I would be on Holly's side in the midst of a smackdown. I'm glad she didn't stress the moralistic side of her argument as much as the professional one, laying it out that this could be potentially dangerous for their business as well as for Tommy's personal life. And overall, the spa plotline got some laughs out of me, as well as a few "Awww..." moments.

I'm cringing at the whole Saul storyline because it just is such a cliche because apparently only women can experiment with their sexuality and still end up straight. Though it will give some good scenes of Saul and Kevin.

So. . . basically, we could have saved ourselves 45 minutes of show and just watch the "Next time. . . " from last week's episode

Emily VanCamp has brought back Amy Abbot's "Bangs of Sadness" just in time for Justin's drug relapse. Perfect!

But Tommy? I still find him to be the most boring and having him follow in his father's footsteps this closely is ridiculously predictable. They've been telegraphing that one all season.

Do we know what happened with Tommy and Lena? I left the room with Lena telling Tommy that, "Sometimes you have to take care of yourself," and when I came back, Holly was yelling at Tommy. What happened? A kiss? Sex? What did I miss?

I hate how the writers constantly reference the whole Justin/Rebecca thing - WAY too meta in my opinion. Just like it was unnecessary for her to walk in on him in the bath, now they have to have someone think she's his girlfriend.. And even though the writers say they have no intention of going there, the fact that are constantly referencing it just becomes cocky.

And while I liked the part where Rebecca was willing to question Justin and them bonding while at home - I was the first one to mention this and I have to reiterate that they need to give Rebecca a job, a line in passing saying she's doing something productive with her time other than watching The Hills all day, otherwise she looks lazy and leaching off of Nora. Really I just want EVC to bring it when I know she can.

I thought she was channeling Jen Lndley from Dawson's Creek. i wish I could link to a picture!
That episode was rediculous. Isn't it a little early in the season and/or life of the show to be mailing it in???

I feel so stupid, but I didn't recognize Rebecca until her first close-up. Amazing how much a hairstyle change can change the way people look - well, for me, at least.

As for this episode.. predictable much? My God, this episode was the epitome of predictable! And of course the senator didn't want the prenup. Silly Kitty! Doesn't she know she's marrying Senator Perfect?

This show totally befuddles me. I tend to have nothing else to watch on Sunday so I've seen every episode, but every week I realize that I hate about 80% of the characters. In fact other than Sarah and Kevin most of the time, I hate everyone. Jesus, I like Holly more than I like Kitty, Rebecca, Justin, and now Tommy. Don't even get me started on Nora. Maybe it's my general aversion to anything that Sally Fields (is that her name?) is involved in, but the mother infuriates me. She reminds me of the mom on Everybody Loves Raymond. So ridiculously annoying. Calista Flockhart's face just grates on my nerves. I know that's immature, but I can't help it. Am I really supposed to believe that she could be the next First Lady. Ilk. The whole Rebecca moving in always rang false to me and if I was Sarah I would have whooped her ass. Why is everyone friendly to this girl??? Fine I understand accepting your father's bastard child, but must she move in. I feel like the Justin storyline is a cop-out, Tommy's is nonsense right now (anything to get him on screen for more than 3 minutes, huh), and I'm not quite sure how I feel about Saul. The only storyline not irritating me is Sarah's but I cannot describe my hatred for the Rebecca/Joe kiss last year. All of it made my skin crawl.

agggg... end rant. Thank you for letting me vent

I've seen the look on other shows, I think bangs are back in. They really don't look good on her though.

Are you day drinking? (I think that is what Kitty said over the phone to Sarah). I love it.

And you see writers, Holly's appearance this week was completely natural. She works so much better when you aren't trying to force her into the plot.

Kevin and Saul were great. I think Milo is kind of an ass though. Saul is clearly very uncomfortable with all this, I don't think Milo forcing the issue again and again, or setting Saul up is going to help. The only thing that doesn't ring true to me is how no one in the Walker clan has ever thought this about Saul before. And perhaps they have, but Kevin's shock and denial seem to imply that the idea has not been considered.

I can concede that some of the plot points were predictable, but the execution was great. The dialogue was crisp and witty and the acting fantastic as always.

I'm sorry, but to me this was the antithesis of "mailing it in." A MUCH better episode than last week's.


Sarah/Kitty feeling obligated to invite Nora, and then finally blowing up at her after she "plotted" to talk to Tommy was pitch-perfect. But I also loved how at the end, Nora did drop some real words of wisdom.

Yes, Nora was on Mom! overdrive this week--but that's what rings so true about her character. She's overprotective and smothering, but she has a good heart and would go to the ends of the earth for her children.

Loved that we finally gained insight into William's reaction to Kevin's coming out. I really felt Kevin's pain when he said, "He made me feel like it was a favor to remain a part of the family." Both men exhibited a refreshing maturity in their scenes.

ugh, I cannot believe that Justin is addict again and Tommy sleeping with Lena was predictable. On the plus side, I like Saul and Kevin scences, and did enjoy Kitty and Sarah plotting to keep Nora away from Tommy. Overall an ok episode. But i feel like the show is going through sophomore slump. I already miss first season.

I don't think they were insulting daytime soaps. They were insulting The Hills, which makes daytime look like Shakespeare.



My favorite line was when Sarah said all she needed was a Lionel Richie song.

I wish they hadn't done this with Tommy, I want to see Tommy built up as a character, not trashed.


The position he's put himself in as the loyal uncle, everyone's ear, they've probably never wanted to think about his personal life, aside from the times he brought the issue up, like when he was with Holly.


The first season had some big flaws too. I think what hurts my enjoyment is they're already revisiting some stories already done in the first season. No more Justin addiction, ever. And Tommy's affair.

We were not shown what happened. It was implied they had sex, at least by Holly. I really hate the whole thing.

And Daddy's Whore would be a pro at spotting JBF'd folks.

I hate it, too. And when Tommy told Nora that if could do something, he would, completely fell flat for me. Exactly what has he tried to do when it comes to Julia?

I loved the episode, but cannot believe that they are going there with Justin's addiction.

I liked the spa storyline only because Nora's reactions and motivations were eerily similar to something that my mother would do. Loved Sarah chugging the mini-bottles of liquor.

I completely missed that they were watching The Hills. How did they reference it?

Kitty/Robert: I can understand her being upset about the prenup, especially if they have not discussed it before. But she handled it in a very mature (especially for Kitty) way.

Hypocritical Holly cracked me up tonight with her tirade to Tommy..

"How did I pick up on it in five minutes?", she asked. Well, perhaps because you have done it for twenty years. I would be amazed if you hadn't sniffed it out.

Loved the spa. Can the brothers get a road trip? And bring Robert. TIA.

The best part of the Tommy/Holly scenes was when he told her not to *ever* bring up his father to him in that way. As much as I dislike the story, that one brief moment was one I loved for Tommy.

The talk with Saul and Kevin was great too. Kevin was fuming about Saul not being there for him when he needed him. Matthew Rhys played it just right.

Tommy sure cheated fast. Julia's been gone, what one episode?
It was just unbelievable to me that he would throw his marriage vows away so quickly, at least make it appear longer time wise and show more confliction over his marriage.

I missed most of the second-to-last Justin/Rebecca scene, the one that ended with Justin pissily ordering Rebecca out of the room. What happened, and please say it had nothing to do with incest!

I really don't think Holly was being hypocritical when she lectured Tommy. As was mentioned before, she went the professional route when giving the cons against Tommy and Lena. It's her business too and she doesn't want an interoffice affair screwing everything up. IIRC, she never worked for William so they didn't have to worry about this.

I think the only unpredictable thing about this episode was Rebecca's surprising new hairdo. Which I don't like.

I can understand some concern about the Tommy and Justin stories, but honestly I thought the characterizations were spot-on tonight.

The dynamic between the girls and Nora was alternately amusing and touching. Feeling overburdened by Nora, but ultimately relying on her for advice. Great stuff.

Kevin and Saul were really honest and forthright with each other, which I quite liked, and I also appreciate how they're giving Saul time to sort out what his sexual identity is. It feels much truer to me.

I can likewise relate to the concern about Justin's relapse--but IMO it's far too early to say they're doing the exact same story. I have faith in the writers that they're going to take us to a new place.

Sarah was fabulous tonight. "We're being lock-blocked." And (a bit too loudly, when receiving her drink): "Oh, thank GOD!" LOL!

Loved Sarah, Kevin, Saul, and yes even Nora. She cracks me up, even at her most overbearing. Let's just say I have personal knowledge of the subject. ;)

That, plus the fact that the sandwich-offering was so awkward that it played like a mom wanting to (but not obviously) interrupt her high school son and his girlfriend from making out, made me think at first that this was a new character that Justin was romantically interested in. Don't know how to read the awkwardness now.

That was a bit disappointing. I was so pumped up about the whole trip to spa, but Nora was so annoying. I missed that scene shown in promos with Kitty trying to catch the bouquet... did that happen at all or was it edited out?

Tommy & Justin-- predictable.

What tipped me off were references to Heidi and Spencer: Justin referred to the girl whose boyfriend "made her get a boob job," and Rebecca (keep wanting to call her Amy, especially now that the Bangs of Sadness have returned--so glad others have noticed!) recited Spencer's comments about how he didn't make her do it, he just supported her choices or whatever happy horseshit.

Ugh, agree. I'm a gay man with a lot of minority opinions about how gay people are depicted on TV (as much as I love the discussion of such themes in this neck of the woods, and I mean that sincerely), and the Kevin/Saul stuff just made me angry and uncomfortable.

I HATE YOU, SCOTTIE. You were cool last week but apparently that was a fluke. I know that you probably tie every single aspect of your life into your sexuality ("I am going to wear black socks this morning, because I am a gay man"), but it is not your place to tell someone what you did.

And I HATE YOU, KEVIN, at least until you wear blue again because it makes your eyes pop out. Can't you tell Saul that you are here for him regardless, and that he can talk to you about anything? "Are you gay?" is, in my humble and admittedly odd opinion, a rude question when not at a bar, especially to a relative 20 years your senior.

I need a drink of water.

In other storylines: Loved the scene with Kitty recommending Cliff for Sarah and her rejecting it. It's obvious that Sarah has a soft spot for the Joes while we know that Kitty loves the clean-cut, TDH thing (Warren, Jonathon, the Senator).

I loved Holly chewing out Tommy. Essentially, she was saying that while she was a dirty mistress, she was smart about it, dammit.

He said these exact words. In the second scene between the two, he admitted he had been too hard on Saul and said he would be here for him for whatever he needed.

Honestly, I didn't think Kevin was all that pushy in the first scene. He didn't adopt an accusatory tone; he was compassionate and was simply trying to get through to his uncle and basically let him know, "It's me, Kevin, you're nephew. You should feel comfortable confiding in me."

As I said, I was impressed by both men. Even with so much left unspoken, they came to an understanding and I feel like Saul WILL confide in Kevin in due time, when he's more comfortable with himself.

I actually at first thought that nothing happened and that their awful lying was because they knew how it looked to Holly (who, as she so perfectly put it, wrote the book on this subject). But then the previews for next week pretty much confirmed they did the deed. I agree, predictable and it happened so fast with no build-up.

Another plotline moving at warp speed? Justin's relapse. I figured it would go this way, but again, there should have been more build-up. Justin hitting a wall in his rehab, he takes a bad spill, something to make this decision resound more. And we all know how this will end: Nora blaming Rebecca, family intervention, Tommy probably being an ass again, etc., etc.

The whole Kevin/Saul thing was cringe from start to finish. Kevin knows Saul's lying, the audience knows Saul's lying, Saul knows that Kevin knows Saul's lying. Cringe, cringe, cringe.

I thought the best scene of the night was Kitty and Sarah frantically trying to outmanuever Nora about the spa invite, but they were taken down by the master. Hee.



HA! That was awesome. Line of the night, for sure.

Eh? Saul was honest? I must've been watching something else. I was disappointed with Kevin with the way he handled that.

Color me not even slightly suprised since they all but gave us this weeks script last week. For whatever reason I expect more of this show. I just think there may have been a better way to challenge his sobriety

The other part with Sarah and Kitty and Nora I liked was the phone conversation. Whoever said "we should have never taught her speed dial" or something to that effect cracked me up. I have often questioned me giving my mom new technology when it starts backfiring on me!

ETA: I'm not shocked or disappointed in the quick slide of Justin. It seems probable to me. He was already an addict and now has lots of new pain (physical and emotional) and is taking narcotics again. I had a knee surgery right after a bad romantic breakup and loved the way I didn't feel sad and could get a good night's sleep on Vicodin. Scared me when my thirty pills were gone and I thought, gee, now I know why people like the stuff. So an addict making the slide quickly, I understand.

Kevin let him know that he was there for him. I honestly thought he was fine.

And, yes, Saul was evasive--you're right. But I feel he's simply not in a position yet to know where he is, sexuality-wise, let alone speak it.

This week, I thought Holly and Scotty were the only likeable people on screen, and the most intelligent and mature ones besides. That is one hell of a trick, show.

I am sick of the Nora-Has-No-Life theme.

Emily's hair looks terrible. She is this naturally gorgeous woman but now she looks like the bimbo version of the uptight librarian stereotype with those bangs.

I'm repulsed by the jokes about Justin and Rebecca chemistry.

I think it's a bit much for Saul to be so vigorously denying he's gay, if the story is leading to a revelation that he actually is. It's not like he lives in an environment where such things are never spoken of and he's never met anyone else who openly is. He can't possibly have a wildly out of touch idea of what the word means or have bought the idea that if he's not a stereotype he can't be one of "them." I don't care if he's in his 60s, it's just too much, given the context of his life.

At the same time, Kevin was a dick. And I usually like Kevin.

I'm getting tired of the patented B&S everyone talking over each other cutesy fights.

I can't stand how Tommy is acting. He hasn't tried to do anything to help Julia or the marriage. I'm tired of his cold defensive posture and am starting to think he blames Julia for William's death.

Justin's story is too formulaic. It's boring.

Kitty and Robert are boring and predictable too.

Even the road trip was unfunny to me.

And is it supposed to be funny for Sarah to be drinking in the middle of the day, and for everyone to be drinking all the time? Enough already!

I thought I loved this show, but not tonight.

All Scottie did was tell Kevin he saw his uncle at a party. The rest was up to Kevin and Saul.


I think Kevin was hurt because Saul wasn't there for him when William looked down on him for being gay. Saul became very defensive, which set Kevin off. Kevin got over it relatively fast and supported Saul. When Saul said in the later scene that he wasn't gay, Kevin stayed quiet.

Kevin's not a saint, never will be, but I thought he did the best he could with such a confusing situation.


He probably has a deep sense of shame about what being gay means, whether he's around other gay people or not. I've seen that happen, even to people who may have gay friends or relatives. It's the same as the straight person who is cool with someone else's child being gay, then freaks out when one of their own children comes out.