From TVGuide: A dentist's murder leads detectives on the trail of counterfeit and poisoned mouthwash, that involves the FDA and Wallstreet.

I was WTF about this episode from the begining. So I'm still not sure what to make of it. What really got me was that last exchange between Goren and Eames.

There were too many 'red-herring' moments in this one for me.

Discuss amongst yourselves...

When did Eames become the senior partner? For at least the first five seasons, it seemed like Goren was - he certainly continued to call most of the shots through season 6. I know the new captain doesn't like him much, but that doesn't magically retroactively make Eames the senior.

i know it was stated somewhere (another episode earlier on) that she was SP. Maybe possibly as recently as the begining of Season 6 when Bogosian came in. I recall he gave Eames a 'keep an eye on him' speech, I'm not sure if her seniority was mentioned then or not.

The other thing that bothered: Why did Major Case get called into this one in the first place. It didn't seem like it was known till they were already in it that it was a 'high profile' case. To me they shouldn't have been brought in untill the FDA... blah blah... was fingered. Cause seriously one [murdered] dentist who runs a clinic in the 'inner-city'; does not a Major Case make. I feel like a step was missed.

I don't mind so much about "why is it major case" because that's been going on since the Rene Balcer era. What I minded was that they seemed to go in so many different directions...dentist's murder, accusations of abuse, threatening mother, FDA corruption (paging the Mothership) and then for an unusual twist, attractive woman comes on to Bobby and then turns out to be the killer.

Up against all that I didn't care much about who's senior partner but actually I get the impression that Bobby and Alex don't either. Bobby's definitely a lone wolf type and Eames has a certain amount of that as well.

That last exchange made me wonder, though, in the past Eames might have said it with a little more irony or humor but they haven't restored the Eames snark yet. It needs to come back now that they are starting to return Bobby's deductive genius.

I hope there will be more of these "not so personal" shows, this one was a little scattered unfortunately.

Eames has always been the senior partner. I can't recall when it was either stated or implied, but, as long as I can remember, it's been that way.

I was taken aback by Eames' comment at the end of the episode. That was pretty harsh. If she was really worried about Goren's affect on her career and she was ambitious, she should have gone through with the transfer she requested earlier in their partnership.

I just don't feel it is fair for her to put the onus of her lack of advancement on him. She made the decision not to change partners and it has been a successful partnership insofar as them being considered one of the best, if not the best, teams on the Major Case Squad.

I don't mind the writers bringing in some conflict and drama. I just don't want it to be gratuitous. That jibe felt gratuitous and a little out of character from what has been established.

Good episode, even if Leslie being the criminal could be seen from a mile away.

I took Eames' comment "it's too late" as she's in too deep now with him to care about a promotion or if others' think he's going to drag her down. Prior to the season, VDO and KE's joint interview talked about the 3rd G/E episode as being an important one for Bobby vis a vis a breakdown and showing how connected the characters really are.

Maybe you're right Sedonared, it was a little unclear. But I still don't like the way they have been writing Eames to be almost humorless lately. You could say it's due to recent events but still...in the interview they mentioned that the police use humor to keep going so I really believe the Eames snark should still be around.

WillowFae20 writes:



That's what made it for me. The plotting was logical, but the structure was always surprising, feinting in the direction of one issue and then breaking for another so quickly that I couldn't anticipate it. I figured it wouldn't be about child sexual abuse, but then it zigzagged from defective merchandise carelessly being foisted on the black community to corporate influence corrupting federal oversight to careerism and status envy. Take a bow, Charlie Rubin.

Sigh. If there were only continuity police. The only good thing about being stuck at home sick today was the all-day USA CI marathon. In one of the episodes, Eames responds to an invitation to be on some high-profile task force by saying that getting recognized wasn't why she took the job. Her character has never seemed to be interested in advancement -- wanting to be a captain is, I assume, not a passive pursuit. We've never seen it. Why now? Why create characters that we will love if we can't recognize them anymore? [I get that his mom died and his life has changed but I still have whiplash from the shift.]

That kind of big character shift and the add-on relationship exposition is really lame and insulting. Last time out it was a skateboarding child who happened to overhear his mother talking to the chief of detectives and just so happened to repeat it to the "whack job" in question? This time out, the relationship exposition is the last 30 seconds of the episode and uttered by the suspect as she's being hauled out in handcuffs? Clunky much?

All of a sudden: Goren is submissively deferential to Eames (she's always been senior partner, why the change in attitude and interaction?), the captain is involved in helping solve the case vs. advising around more managment/administrative/political issues, Eames has become utterly humorless and no more "Goren show." Ever.

I loved these characters and I miss the easy camraderie, the snark. I miss the kind of stuff I saw in the marathon today: a confident and charming Goren, a ballsy but funny Eames, interesting perps and cases, getting to hear one more weird thing that Goren knows, the occasional undercover posing as a couple, the brilliant interrogation room scenes.

It also seems that without an Assistant DA to be their foil occasionally, that all of the conflict-tension has to now take place within the squad. Man, I sure do miss the "order" in this "Law and Order."

I didn't mind the personal developments but now it seems like the show is built around a different mystery: when is Goren going to lose his s**t.

Give me my show back.

Wow, that was rough.

I haven't been a fan of this show for a looong time now, and I see I was right.

Ugly what they've done to the characters since Jamie left.

No kidding! :)-

I was reading this article the other day and was a bit put off by this passage:

Warren Leight is the show runner and (apparently) has not read the show's bible? or checked out the old scripts? or even caught up on the previous episodes?

It sucks when the show runner has no idea about the characters' histories.

This episode was so...disjointed. There was no flow, no logical train of thought. I was pretty bored by it overall.

And I really hate the new theme music.

I'm really confused as to where this show is going. I'm one of the (very few it seems) people who would really rather see more of the characters personal lives, not less, so I like those cheesy "will he fall for Fred in the red jacket" moments. However, they need to either commit to that or go back to pure procedural. As it is right now all they seem to be doing is setting Goren up to leave (retire maybe? If he was on the force 12 years in S1 he's closing in on 20 now). I don't want to watch that for an entire year.

I didn't hate this episode. It was nice to see Fred (the actress, Amy Acker, if you're not a Buffyverse fan) and she looked beautiful, but it seemed kinda all over the place. I liked how the ep spent a lot of time out of the squad room though (that seems to be the new trend)

I really don't mind seeing more of the characters' personal lives. I thought the episode dealing with the killing of Eames' husband was pretty darn good. I thought Bobby dealing with his mom's death was pretty powerful stuff.

What bugs me, though, is when they (the writers, show runner, and producers) forget (or don't even seem to care) what has been established for the characters prior to the new show runner taking over at the start of last season.

Personally, what has always held my interest in LOCI, even while my attention has wandered away from the other L&O shows, is that it has always dealt with the psychology of crimes and criminals. I get a thrill out of watching Bobby psychoanalyze perps into submission. I enjoy Eames tossing out the biting snark. I just don't want what is good about the show to disappear into a pit of roiling angst.

If any of the production staff is reading this post, I ask this: the next time Bobby falls for a damaged woman, please let her turn out not to be a murderer. Our Bobby needs to occasionally make a personal connection with someone who isn't a criminal or a cop. Bubba needs to go out on a date and have fun... and not end up regretting it.

Anybody else see Amy Acker's name in the opening credits, and think, I think I know who the bad guy is. (I had the same reaction when I saw Julie Benez in Famous Original L&O. I missed her name in the opening credits, but at the 25 minute mark she was introduced as the then-suspect's wife. Ah.) Is it a coincidence that Buffyverse people are now murderers in the L&O world?

Anyway, I felt cheated that they never showed Amy in this alleged hot power suit.

I missed the opening credits, but maybe someone can tell me--was the actor who played the pharma CEO the same one who was "Wild" Bill Guarnere in Band of Brothers? It sure looked like him, if it wasn't.

So, it appears I'm the only one who really liked this episode.

FRED!!!!!!

I giggled a little at the "Senior Partner" line, for my own twisted reasons.

I liked end. I took it as the truth. It really is too late for her career. Maybe at one time.....but now Eames really is too tainted by Goren.


YEah saw the Fred is the bad guy...uhh girl, coming a mile away. But....it's FREDDDD (I miss Buffy/Angel). Ok I'm done.

I liked her character. Yes red herrings abound but sometimes that's fun. And idiot boss, wasn't he on another episode of CI, as a idiot...uhh what is that called the guy who cremates bodies. Played the same general guy, patsy with no imagination.

I really liked this episode, I like the darker feel to the show.

Yes, maybe, but my feeling is that she shouldn't care about that, especially caring for Goren as much as she does. I think it meant that it was too late to worry about her career, whatever happened, happened and they were still partners. At least that's what I posted on another thread.

True. Or as much as they used to write her caring for him. This year I'm not getting caring.

They're writing her strange and him stranger this season.

I really think that is what she was saying, only it could have been worded or played just a little more directly.

I loved how Bobby used Fred's attraction to him in the end when they were setting up her arrest. I mean, he gets all intimate with the bad guys often, but this time, knowing she actually was sort of into him, it was even cooler. It's a sign of his recovery, too, I think. Or just hope, because it was sort of hot.

You might be right, but my problem is that since when does working with Goren "taint" someone? It used to be that he was unconventional, maybe hard for some to work with, but he got the bad guys. I can see when he might be see as too unconventional for management, but her management of his eccentricites in what has got to be a very successful partnership (collar wise) should be in her favor.

Yes it was. I didn't quite buy him in the roll.

I didn't see any attraction on either side. Which is what I liked about it. I saw nothing but manufactured intimacy, artiface on her side and suspicion on his

I agree with biblyosylph, I dont' think Eames was trying to hurt Goren at all. The matter of fact way she said it led me to believe she doesn't care about making Captain compared to how much she cares about him. The facial tick she had conveyed a since of "Well, I used to think about stuff like that but I don't anymore."

I kept seeing him as Gussler from a brief stint on Third Watch where he played a newbie police officer and was partnered with Faith Yokas, Molly Price's character.

I was actually shocked at the last line of this episode. When Eames said, "It's too late," with that little shrug of her shoulders, I couldn't believe how un-Eamesish and harsh the character had been written. I agree with those who have noted that Eames never cared about the projectory of her career before. She didn't take the spot on the Task force, and she has never spoken about an ambition to rise above the detective position. In fact, I had always gotten the impression that she loved being a detective, that she had even loved doing stake-outs and working on the streets, because she liked being in the thick of the action and crime-solving.

Moreover, I always got the impression that Eames cared deeply about Goren, and that she had true faith in him. Even when others have doubted Bobby, Eames has stuck by him. She's put her own neck on the line not just for him, but because she believes in him. I would think that Eames would have faith in her track record with Bobby, and in the reputation that they MUST have to be on the Major Case Squad in the first place, to speak for her if she does want to advance.

I simply don't believe that Eames and Goren have a bad reputation in the police force. I don't think they would have been called "my best detectives" by their previous captain or that they would be on Major Case if they really had such a poor reputation. Even though Goren's "unconventional" reputation is well-known, I would think that his brillance and his record with putting the bad guys away would have cut him a considerable amount of slack at this point. I don't buy the fact that Bobby is considered a "whack-job" within the police force. Are you kidding? Goren has considerable sensitivity and social skill which he employs to manipulate criminals all the time. He and Eames has an amazing track record for getting the bad guys, and even forcing or tricking confessions on criminals that are very difficult to convict. Somehow, despite these two qualities, he's actively disliked and considered a little crazy?

That's always been questionable, and now it's being shoved down our throats even more. Why? And being shoved down our throats by Goren's greatest ally, the person who has always truly believed in him? Unbelievable. Boo, writers. Boooooooo.

Thank you! I was trying to figure out what was troubling me so much about how the characters and the show are changing. I think that this may be exactly it. G/E have morphed from a confident, well-balanced pair that gets the bad guy to this bubbling pot of mess and angst and clunkiness that I am not digging.

Goren was unconventional and cocky and brilliant and Eames was smart and knew how to channel/manage their efforts. When exactly did that all fall apart? And why? When did their spirits and their basic affects (G: cocky and delightfully manipulative, E: snarky and kickass with a sense of humour) change so fundamentally and WHY? Ugh. I'm all for character development and evolution but there's a missing chapter (or three) here.

On a more superficial note --
Note to costumers: I get it. Erbe's character is tough and flinty and bad ass. If I agree not to forget that, could we please lose the overused black leather jacket?

And could you please put VDO into some suits that fit and that are not these pukey Sears colors of the 70s? Damn! What happened to the delicious dark suit/blue shirt combos that lit him up? Does he HAVE to look like middle management in a suburban manufacturing plant? I know that there's...um...more of him to love, now. But these ugly, ill-fitting suits are killing me. The man needs high-contrast color combinations. (Okay, they did get it right on the scene on the ferry with Fred -- black jacket, bright white shirt, no tie -- holla'!)

I actually think this is realistic. G&E may be good at their jobs, but they're not ass kissers or willing to play the political game and that would greatly effect their reputation and status with the higher ups, and their past willingness to go after cops in certain situations such as the case with the detective in the premiere probably would end up harming their rep with the rank and file. Bobby's mannerisms, behavior, and crime solving tactics while effective will put people off as it did in the early days of the show with Deakins, Carver, and others.

I don't think THe police "like" goren. Respect him maybe, but I don't think they'd invite him for a beer. Didn't he make a point of saying during "amends" that he had no friend in there. Yes, you could take it as one group who were pissed at him, but I also think that because he has no problem accusing other cops of whatever, see last season, they think he shows no loyalty and therefore he has a bad rep inside the NYPD and Eames who IS loyal to HIM is tainted by that. I do believe she has chosen him over her own career several times and that she is ok with that but being ok with something doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. She's the daughter/wife of a cop, she should be everyones best friend and yet I get the impression that she no longer get invites to parties. And that HAS to effect her career.

She's made her choice, and she's willing to live with it, but sometimes it hurts like hell.

That's not solely Goren's fault though.

Eames' father got into a bit of trouble supplementing his income.

With Eames' husband getting killed in the line of duty, she lost connections to the other police wives and the police. Nobody wants to be reminded of death as one of the possible outcomes of the job.

I remember it differently (and got to watch a bunch of early episodes during yesterday's USA marathon). In the early episodes, his colleagues remarked on his unconventionality (is that a word?) and occasionally got caught on the wrong side of it (Carver) but it was different. It was respectful. They didn't always get it but he was trusted and they got out of the way. They shook their head and chuckled ("The Goren Show is back in town"). Deakins would suggest that they cover their bases. Carver would decry the lack of evidence to support the theory or question whether profiling wasn't as much art as science. But no one ever wrote him off as a "whack job."

"Eccentrics" are tolerated and, sometimes, admired. "Whack jobs" aren't.

That's certainly true, and when Fred lashed out after being cuffed, I thought it was an odd attack. But maybe it's also true that perceptions of them have changed. It is a very political game, getting promoted in law enforcement, at least in the upper levels.

I feel like this episode could have been a turning point back in the right direction. Eames has laid some ghosts to rest, and Goren can start to feel the weight of his mother truly lifted from his shoulders. I would much rather see that, anyway, than a descent into more disconnectedness.

And I do think that Bobby and that chick were a little into each other. It was made a part of both their characters to be good at game-playing. But who are the people you most like? The ones you can play the game with.

I stick by the fact that I don't like or believe what the writers are trying to sell. That Eames would say something that cold right to Bobby? There's just no way. When Nicole finally got Goren by manufactoring a major crime (missing anthrax) and setting up a suspect that Bobby would loathe and pursue irrationally, Goren was reeling. He truly thought he could see the writing on the wall when the press was accusing him of driving the man to suicide. He stumbled off to the darkness of an investigation room, devasted. Eames followed him, and when Bobby said, "She got me," Eames looked at him and said, "Let's get her back." Just that exchange showed so much about the relationship between the two of them. Eames has always understood, always cared, and always had his back. She would never say something that harsh to Bobby. She just wouldn't.

Many, many subtle moments in the show have shown that the two of them are deeply devoted the partnership. Goren always appreciated Eames, but it hit him profoundly just how much when he was assigned a new partner during Eames's pregnancy. As for Eames being hurt about Goren's affect on her career or social life - like I said, she's made it very clear in the past that promotion isn't her goal in life. She has also made fun of her own lack of a social life without showing any bitterness or blaming it on Goren.

As for ass-kissing the higher-ups - Goren and Eames aren't asskissers. They don't need to be - they produce real results. They have gotten Carver a lot of convictions by inducing confessions he would never have gotten on his own. They were their former captian's "best detectives." His BEST. He said so, in his own words. When HIS ass was on the line, out of all of his detectives, Goren and Eames were pulling double-duty to start a case and collect evidence to save him. They would do that. They put in extra hours, they are willing to play unflattering roles - they have and they will go out of their way to save the asses of their co-workers. Goren single-handedly saved Logan, and Logan's girlfriend, by talking down 4 murderous prison guards. In the long run, Goren and Eames win people over and prove loyal AND effective. That's the sort of thing that might not be clear with first impressions, but becomes clear and awfully respected in the long run.

Instead, the writers are trying to sell us on the idea that the opposite has happened. That the longer Goren and Eames have worked together, the more bridges that they have burned. How, precisely, did they do that? By solving nearly unsolvable cases? By handing over convictions were there was little evidence and it all hinged on getting a confession they managed to manipulate out of their target? Certainly not by solving cases in creative and astounding ways that would make great water cooler conversation? Because cops never tell each other stories, or anything.

What we were originally sold was that people didn't know how to HANDLE Bobby Goren. They couldn't emulate him, they couldn't keep up with him, they couldn't out-smart him, they couldn't understand him - he was a giant in stature and intellect. Eames was the person who could actually keep up with his leaps, even if she didn't make them herself, and was able to harness them as a team and keep things going straight. They were great collaborators.

Now, it's not that people struggle with trying to handle or understand Bobby Goren. They think he's completely off-the-hook, and dangerous, and they resent him, and they call him "insane" behind his back. That's what they are trying to sell me this season, and what I'm saying is that I'm not buying.

I thought this past episode was pretty good, and I was enjoying most of it right up to the very last *second* of the episode. Sure, I saw the villian a mile away - but that's normal on most mystery shows these days, and has been for years. Everything else was going great for me until the very end, when we were again thrown this storyline (which was set up in the season's opener) about Goren's rotten reputation and how it has affected Eames negatively, and Eames's reaction to Bobby's concern over how he might have affected her was cold, and completely un-Eames-like. Eames has always bolstered Goren through his own self-doubts - that's the core of Goren's ability to be effective. Eames makes it clear to him that she has his back when he's down, she steers him in the right direction when he's fumbling with his thoughts and direction, and she shows him affection with a single pithy sentence when his insecurities come to the forefront. That's why there's no Goren without Eames. Goren's got the genuis, the insight, the observational skills - but he's got insecurities and he's eccentric, and Eames has always been there to counterbalance those flaws. That's the most effective and awesome part of their partnership.

The last two episodes since L&O:CI moved to USA has shown that whoever is writing now doesn't get it. In the first episode, Eames said, "This isn't one of your little puzzles, Bobby." She's *never* condscended to seeing his work as just little puzzles. Goren urged Eames on through her emotional meltdown, saying, "You know we have to do this." He was the one emotionally supporting her, keeping her on the case. For one episode, that was a pretty brillant flip-flop to their roles. It was the interesting part of the episode, and it was very cool to use Eames's personal past with her husband's death to make that happen. We saw that they got through it together, too.

But, for whatever reason, we also got thrown a bunch of clues with that episode that Goren was more than just an outsider. We find out through the victim's son that the adults consider Goren a total nut job. The ending of his episode was expressly written to re-enforce the idea that Goren is actively disliked and discounted by his colleages - to the point that he's cost Eames any promotions or a career. I don't like that storyline. I don't like it because I don't find it believable to the way people operate in real life, and I don't find it believable because there's little evidence of it being the truth in the past 5 seasons the show was on NBC. I think that the writer's are forcing it, and are creating a hostile work enviroment for Goren, not to mention writing Eames, as a character, unlike she was originally created, and it's not doing justice to the series, the actors or the characters.

I'm really sorry you feel that way about it Lionne. But I saw the "It's too late" differently. I saw that the way she said it, she obviously didn't care about promotion and would rather be with Bobby. She just chose a bad way to say it. I do agree that Goren and Eames aren't asskissers, and I don't think they would burn bridges either. I agree with your assessment there, they're so good they're bound to make friends, not enemies.

Bobby always HAS been hard to handle!

I'm with missypip in being most bothered by how clunky the personal stuff has been. Both instances she cites were improbable and clearly showed the writers shoehorning character stuff in.

I was watching this episode while doing other things, keeping track of everything, but figuring I'd go back to my recording of it later if it seemed particularly good. Then Fred/Amy started throwing anvils in her last speech and I was just trying to process the ridiculousness of that when Eames said "it's too late" and shrugged. I think I just sat there staring at the screen, thinking, WTF??

Now, I do think they've set up conflict in the last two seasons. Bobby and Alex had definite problems during his mother's illness, and she did not agree with how obsessed (as she saw it) he became in Roy Scheider's ramblings. Add to that her getting abducted by someone Bobby knew and liked, and the recent emotional turmoil reliving her husband's death, and she might be blurting out some frustration without regard to how Bobby would take it.

The problem is that -- as others have said -- Eames has never been interested in a promotion. There have been deliberate points at which this has been highlighted.

Add that to the anvilicious way the writers are creating conflict in these first two G/E episodes, and I agree -- some things need to be fixed.

It feels like the curse of Frank Adair. They need to go back to their roots if it's possible. I keep waiting for Dick Wolf to do something about this, he never wanted his shows to be personal.

Maybe Rene Balcer could send in a script under an assumed name.

Anvilicious? Did you coin that, Mrs. Dagleish? If so, I *heart* you something fierce. I love that. I hope you don't mind if I add that to my personal vocabulary.

Quite true, Lionne. It's obvious from the reruns that the writers are mucking up the characters of Eames and Goren.

I'd rather they never showed Bobby's mother, it seems Goren has been a fish out of water since that point.

I liked the episode too. I was thinking during the episode how much better this episode is than the last few L&O: SVUs.


I think that's a term used frequently on this site. :)

I thought it started out well. The writers really bungled what started out as a promising opportunity.

In the "The War at Home," it was poignant to see such a confident, self-assured man be so tortured and torn by juggling his mother's needs and his new captain's insistence that he work a case. Hearing his sad "Mom...Mom" on the phone was so painful and a great example of character development instead of character destruction. As was his interaction with his brother about their mother's "affairs."

It doesn't have to be clunky or overplayed or shoehorned in. With these actors, it could have been amazing.

Poor Bobby! Did anyone think that deep down he wanted to connect with Leslie, before he discovered her true colors? As a cop, he was cautiously skeptical about her & guarded his feelings. Yet, in the restaurant & especially on the ferry, I could see a touch of affection in his eyes when dealing with her. He asked her why she slipped him her card twice? Did he hope she might shyly admit that in addition to sharing her info, it was also so she could get to know him better? And on the ferry, he said to her that it was a nice idea, meeting on the water. Sounds a bit romantic to me.

Bobby really, really wants someone to love. Now Eames, his only true friend, is acting cold to him with her stone faced, serious comments about "It's too late, I'm tainted by you." Great.

I agree missypip, that Eames last line has been in direct contrast with the entire series so far. It was a real WTF scene for me as well. She's explicitly stated before she's had no ambitions to climb the ladder. Also, combined with her "this isn't one of your puzzles to solve Bobby", she's been kind of a bitch lately knowing what he's been going through.


I think Goren's being referred to now as a whack job and not just eccentric, starting with his erratic behaviour when the Commissioner's daughter went missing (his wife was Fran Drescher). His mother was sick, and his new boss was pissed off with him disappearing. Then once it got around that not only was his mother sick with cancer and schizophrenic and that his brother was a homeless ex-junkie and that his potential father could be a serial killer, he has kind of gone off the rails. I think that this is what caused Goren and Eames to have recently burned a lot of bridges.

Also, I think his (new) sensitivity at being labelled a "whack job" may also be fueled by his fears that he's becoming schizophrenic like his mother or that he may have the genetic make-up of a serial killer.



Absolutely. Clunkiness sums it up well. In previous seasons we would catch glimpses of his insecurities and self-doubt especially with regards to Nicole. But now his vulnerabilities lack any kind of subtlety, and while he has been through a lot lately, its kind of disappointing.

Maybe I missed something, but two Goren episodes in and not a word about his mother, brother or psycho father? Why hasn't he been investigating the latter? Maybe he doesn't want to know, but all this should've been addressed, not to mention that episode when he confronted his father should have been the finale and not the second to last episode.


I totally agree. I got sick to death of Stabler's anger issues / divorce / bitch-fighting with Olivia last season in SVU, all of which seems to have magically been resolved so far this season.

They portrayed this heaps better in the psycho-nurse episode. It was shown throughout the episode she was doing her homework on Goren. Same as Nicole. I don't get why the suspect here suddenly revealed in her last exchange with him that she'd done her research on him, and why she would've bothered to do so in the first place.

While its hard to tell, I still think Goren's seeming interest in the suspect and psycho-nurse was just a ploy on his part to suck them in, get them to trust him so he could catch them out.


Logan's blue Wal-mart shaded blazer is more offensive to me.

The theme bugs more and more with each episode, it sounds like something from the eighties, Magnum PI or the A-team or Macgyver or one of those shows.

Also finding the camera shots and general film quality of this USA-version disjointed and disorienting, and just plain annoying.

I really want the old Goren-Eames back and show format. This used to be my fave L&O out of all of them.

Yeah, but at least they are in character for Logan. Logan has always worn gym coach blazers. Bobby used to be in pretty nice suits (a perp even commented on it once) that would get more disheveled as the case went on but at least fit (except the sleeves. That always bothered me but since he's 9 feet tall I can forgive the inch of wrist showing). I can buy that he's been through so much the last year or two that he let himself go, but that would make the suits he had just ill fitting. Not ill fitting and really, really ugly.

Just a side note, I actually think VDO is looking a little better. Maybe not thinner but a little ...er... firmer.

I liked this episode and so far this season has been really entertaining for me. This episode was far better then I thought it was going to be from the previews. All the red herrings were great as far as I was concerned. Since I just saw the aspirin tainting episode a few weeks ago (L&O:Original Flavor crossover), I assumed it would be a rehash of that "tampering to cover murder" storyline, but no. We got all the possiblilites laid out, but what it came down to was simply cut-throat career advancement.

I enjoyed watching Bobby talk down the crazy-grief mom. I felt it was an insight into what life with his mother must have been like when he was younger. Perhaps not with the threat of immediate violence, but I assume calming conversations, agreeing with the crazy talk, some distraction technique (asking for the glass of water), refocusing her on the aspects of reality they agree on, were all hard won skills for our Det. Goren. Fascinating!

At the end I thought that the perps unabashed ambition- betraying the man she'd worked with for years, even letting people die in order for her to be promoted- being in direct contrast to Eames attitude, that she stuck with Bobby, catching the bad guys, even though it probably cost her a shot at being a captian- was great. I thought the suspect bringing up the captain thing was simply her projecting, thinking everyone must obviously want to be promoted since it was so important to her, and not any sort of retcon that Eames was super ambitious.

I have no qualms with other cops and higher ups not liking Bobby and by extension Eames. Brilliant and successful doesn't mean universally popular (Bill Gates, anyone?) and promotion at that level is all politics. Besides plain jealousy at their arrest rate, Goren is odd, and while Eames and the audience (and perhaps others who work with them closely) can see the method and the bigger picture, his manner and ticks have got to come off as obtuse if not plain bizzare to everyone else. Add in the fact that he "doesn't play ball", as they say, more then a couple of times investigating fellow officers, (not to mention costing that one cop his job just two episodes ago), I think it would be suprising if they were universally admired within the department. Logan could stop in at a bar and throw back a coupla' beers with some of the uniformed guys, but Bobby? He'd never be welcome. Could you imagine him playing cards with the boys at the beginning of "Amends"? No way. Eames is tainted by Bobby and there's no point for her (other then to save his feelings) to pretend otherwise. Now, whether it was in character for her to say it to his face in the way she did, well, I could be swayed about that. And also that the suspect would be shouting such truths as she was being led away was a little ridiculous. But again, I liked the episode.

Actually I do feel remiss not mentioning the "talking down the mother" scene, it was definitely vintage Goren, played great yet again by Vincent.

I'm glad some people are appreciating things in this one even if I felt it was a little scattered. I would like to believe the writers are trying. Now if we could have more Bobby genius and Alex snarkiness back...

Amphora, I actually liked most of the parts of the story that you bring up. As bent out of shape as that last line of Eames made me, I really thought it was a pretty decent episode.

Talking the mother down did feel like classic Goren, plus, as you said, probably reflected on the way he had to handle his mother for many years. So that scene really worked for me.

Goren has a gentleness with suspects that are mentally ill that really appeals to me.

I agree that the new "whack job" light in which Goren is being cast is inconsistent with everything with know about G&E from years past, such as their arrest record and very presence on Major Case to begin with.

It occurs to me that the original source of this annoying change is actually not this year's move to USA, but last year's captain switch. For whatever reason, the writing team decided that they way they would make Captain Ross different from Jamie Sheridan's character was that instead of being supportive of G&E, he would be distinctly unsupportive of Goren. Hence the immediate conversations with Eames about controlling her partner, etc. And then this year this source of conflict has been continued and exacerbated by giving Goren reasons (mother, brother) to be more unstable. And Eames, in turn, has been dragged along in this messy situation, rather than finding a more creative and character-consistent way to get more personal with her than we were on NBC.

I don't necessarily dislike Bogosian, but I think this trajectory has been a mistake from the beginning. Yeah, sometimes G&E encountered resistance from their first captain (and more often from Carver), but I think it was a critical piece of the puzzle that he trusted them and their ability to do the job, bottom line. Because I think the bottom line is that in a show like this, it is just way more satisfying for the writers to give Goren conflict elsewhere, for example, DUH, with the criminals. Why does the rest of his life (and now hers, too) have to be such a wreck, anyway? I do like getting personal tidbits about both of them (I think it was good to finally learn more about E's husband), but I think it is so much more effective to get them in the course of an investigation when they are relevant to the war against general human evil G&E are waging.

Maybe it is just harder to write compelling plots each week that accomplish this, rather than manufacturing conflict in the relationship between the captain and the detectives, and now (horribly) the detectives themselves. Eames has never wanted to climb the ladder, as others have said; it is so dumb to suggest that she has just to make Goren sad and uneasy. Let him encounter a criminal who killed someone because of professional jealousy and then wonder aloud if Eames resents being tied to him, and then let her REASSURE HIM, because that is what she does and has always done.

I think that if they had found a better, more subtle way to establish the new captain as different as the old one a lot of this could have been avoided. Even if they had shown Ross as initially being distrustful of Goren's methods and then allowed him to be won over in a particularly difficult case sometime last year, maybe, things would be better.

I really, really, really miss the Eames snark.

Good posts. I don't like Vinny with the added weight, although he could be better outfitted. He looks positively uncomfortable with it.

On the introduction of his mother -- big mistake. Big, big mistake. We never saw Norm's wife on Cheers, we should never have met Goren's mother.

Looking back, I'd have to say the half Logan, half Goren CI was the JTS moment for me.

This year, though, he looks downright pissed. And Eames? Oooph, she's practically Norman Bates in long hair.

I agree that Leslie's outburst came out of the blue, and felt awkward and "unearned" (in the story sense, i.e. the writers didn't telegraph it well enough earlier in the episode). And I also found Eames' response to Goren painful - it was hard to see her basically flip him off when he was so clearly looking for reassurance. However, I didn't see it as an entirely heinous moment of character assassination either. And I say this as someone who loves Eames to pieces and has spent probably way too much time thinking about her character and backstory! I think she is awesome (in all senses of that word), but I was actually glad to see her act a little badly, and even thought it was kind of brave of the writers to show her in a less than positive light even for a second. Nobody's perfect, and I actually find Eames a more interesting and more believable character if she has a bit of an edge, a dark side...if she's not quite (or not always) the saintly, loyal partner we all love her for being.

In my mind, when she said "it's too late" she was thinking For god's sake, not this again. After seven years, don't you think I'd have transferred out of the partnership if I was worried about being tainted by association? You should know by now that I don't care about all that stuff. You should damn well trust my judgement and my choices. Of course, she should have recognized that Bobby probably does know, but just needed to be reassured. It would have been the good, friendly, partnerly thing to do to spell it out for him one more time. But Eames has been dealing with mountains of Bobby Angst over the past year...and that's not even getting into all the personal badness *she's* had thrown at her lately...and so maybe she's just getting tired of always having to bolster him up. It's exhausting to be involved with someone who is so emotionally fragile - even only a close professional colleague, let alone a friend. So yes, it was unkind of her to dismiss his question...but, I thought, also profoundly human.

Now I just really, really hope the writers will not abandon the thread they have started, or let it descend into SVU-style melodrama. I want to see the dynamic duo work it out (but subtly, of course, and preferably in small moments connected to the case stories) and be friends again!

I think this episode with toxic toothpaste hurting poor kids is a mirror image of that pharmaceutical chop job episode about hiv plasma being dumped in Thailand because no one would notice a few more cases of AIDS in that country.

It was devastating to Goren how many time along the way, the deaths could have been avoided. The Chinese never died from the cynical substitution was used as an excuse twice, then the storekeeper took a tax deduction on the unsaleable bootlegs by "donating" them, then the children led by one friend stole from the dentist, the mother overreacted, killer made the elitist decision to let the danger go unchecked.

I had a very hard time understanding this episode. There was a weave of contradicting representations of elitism. The only elitist of value was the DB whose ex wife said DB wouldn't play ball and his lack of corruption made coworkers look bad, then the two buddy boys (oh how different in quality from Guanier's Easy Company brotherhood) with the smooth "Happy to Cooperate and Be Cooperative" where they smooth everything along for one another's way, then killer who resents them yet wants what they have and even steals DB's integrity as posture of superiority. My brain fried trying to understand the nuances.

I hate to say it but maybe the dentist also did wrong by asking for donations from local dollar stores for his goodwill building goody bags instead of reaching into his own pockets for some quality gifts.

His Nuyorican receptionist rocked the ensemble. I can't imagine a gray culotte suit with heals and dark nails easy to wear but she made it look natural.

Also, Goren looked hurt that killer tried to play him listening to the savvy catty secretary espouse.