I noticed some spoiler tagged speculation in the recent episode thread. Speculation (that isn't based on spoilers as TWoP defines them) doesn't need spoiler tags. Still, it doesn't really belong in the episode thread. So here's the thread for all your speculation. Please remember, first party promotional materials and mainstream press coverage are not considered spoilers at TWoP.

Speculate away.

Anyone care to speculate on the circumstances surrounding Hillary's departure? I personally think she gets canned at the rose ceremony and FREAKS THE EFF OUT. I think she is waaaay too Fatal Attraction over Brad to just decide they weren't connecting (drink!) and leave. The other thought I had was that she freaks out about him "cheating on her" when she realizes that he's kissed other girls besides her and Jenni.

Can't wait to see the meltdown -- anyone know why they are already revealing that's she's leaving the show?

I wondered if it was some kind of dead relative situation. Nana?

Maybe she says she has to leave for the funeral, etc., and then freaks out when Brad/Chris Harrison say she can't come back?

It would be nice if the most shocking ending in Bachelor history were actually Brad choosing Chris Harrison (he has been waiting oh-so-patiently for one of the Bachelors or ettes to notice his smooth voice and manly charm), but beyond that, I'm at a loss, since I think pretty much everything has already happened -- people who proposed, people who continued dating in various ways, "I choose me," continuing dating both finalists . . . pretty much the only thing that hasn't happened is the primary Bachelor or Bachelorette getting turned down, and I just can't imagine that happening -- the total isolation chamber the show puts contestants in is pretty much guaranteed to make them think they want the prize at the end, at least for long enough for filming.

Mixxy Vixen - In the previews of the finale, they showed clips of each of the final two standing on the pedestal of love/doom holding hands with Brad. IOW, they both showed up. Did his chosen one accept the rose/fake engagement? That will be fun to see.

I'm beginning to think that, in true Bachelor style, the "surprise" ending isn't all that surprising. It's probably that Jenni "wins" and it's the first time the "first impression rose" girl lasts to the bitter end.

It makes more sense to me that he'll pick Jenni because the whole storyline of "I want to be apart for a year to pursue my career" gives them an automatic out of sorts should they decide to end it all after a week. At least they won't have to be hounded with questions of "when is she moving to Austin?"

This seems to be the first Bachelor in some time where the ending hasn't been completely spoiled.

eta that from the promo they just showed at the end of the wta, it sure sounds like DeAnna is getting the brush-off speech. "I agree that marriage is one time only..." so I'm not choosing you because I'm not sure about it. With Jenni, the interaction seems smilier and happier.

The clip with Deanna (about only marrying once for life) sounded like it was leading to a kiss off. Not the words, but something in the tone.

Jenny annoys me, but I bet Brad fell hard for her and her "I'm so in love with you" sealed the deal.

You know I would say the opposite. The way Brad said to Jenni: "You bring out a side in me that no one ever has" - that actually sounded more kiss-off to me. It seems like every blown off Bachlorette at a rose ceremony has gotten the "you're so cool! but.." speech.

Hey, I could be wrong.

Or I could :-)

Those damn sneaky editors.

Might the surprise be that Sheena returns for the final rose? She was the only one on WTA that was portrayed VERY well--almost too much so. She was also the only "main character" not to have one-on-one questions with Brad. And if Bro has any say, she would also be the final one.

It is hard to believe that Jenni would be the winner what with that ridiculous clip of her dancing. Not, in my eyes, the way the editors want to portray a winning classy lady.

I think Brad would rank the final four like this:

Personality:
1-Jenni; 2-Sheena; 3-Deanna; 4-Bettina

Intelligence:
1-Deanna; 2-Bettina; 3-Sheena; 4-Jenni

Appearance:
1-Bettina; 2-Jenni; 3-Deanna; 4-Sheena

Family:
1-Deanna; 2-Jenni; 3-Sheena; 4-Bettina

Ease of Forming a Relationship (location, willingness to move, past relationships, etc.):
1-Sheena; 2-Deanna; 3-Bettina; 4-Jenni

Like most guys, Brad would want the hottest bachelorette in his eyes, but Bettina's family and concealed personality makes that impossible. So he moves on to the next hottest for him, and that is Jenni. Jenni's personality makes her very appealing for him, but she has major distance and willingness to move issues. He could never pick Sheena because he views the other three women as more attractive. Deanna is still in the running because she is smart and has a fun family, but she probably seems like a compromise pick for Brad since she doesn't rank that high on his appearance rankings. This is why I don't think we're going to see a legitimate proposal next week.

The Bachelor process is flawed because the guy ends up having too much choice. He is likely to feel dissatisfied with the women at the end because he compares them to the other women available to him. If Brad had met Deanna oustide of this competition, he would probably be marrying her.

In the promos at the end of the "Tell All" eppy, they show Brad talking to DeAnna and Jenni. When he's talking to Jenni, his face is open and happy. When he's talking to DeAnna, he's much more serious and closed off looking. Which is what I would expect if he were getting ready to break her heart. Just a thought...

Too bad she's already moved on (see YouTube)! However, if you go by some of the Bettina fans online that is exactly what is going to happen with Bettina and Brad. Apparently he still has the hots for her and she was the only one there for the right reasons and she is the classiest bachelorette ever and much better than Jenni and DeAnna who he could meet at any of his bars any day of the week. Or something.

I actually think if Brad and Sheena had had more chemistry he would have kept her around because he seemed to think she was a great person. I wonder if she reminded Chad of his own wife or something.

I think you've got something there, Superpole. I have never been a fan of The Rules, but I think that when a Bachelor sees all these women competing for him, some of them desperately, and acting in less-than-attractive ways, it may turn him off. He may feel less like he is choosing one perfect woman, than presiding over some sort of insane competition.

As for Bettina, didn't he seem a little fed up with her? And I don't think she wants him, now that she has been successfully reprogrammed by the Bells. Man, I loathe those people--and I feel deeply sorry for Bettina, who has been convinced that what she has to offer is not enough. (I mean, she doesn't have a Ph.D. does she? OK, neither does Daddy, but he seems to require them.)

I started thinking they are going to have her back as a bachelorette. That might be an interesting season. But, darn to Shant's news, so I guess not. Maybe crazy Hillary as the new B'ette? That'd be a wild season.


True that! It seemed like she came across as pretty silly with all of the dancing and gyrating on stage and such, so I'm wondering if she loses.

However, the speech about "you only want to get married once" sounded like a kiss-off. So I don't know.

Does anyone know if they make them film that engagement/kiss-off segment over and over? I was really confused but the flowering bushes (azaleas? roses?) in the background. During one clip, they would be behind DeAnna/Jenni and then the next clip they would be behind Brad, even when the woman hadn't changed. It was really strange.

Yeah, supposedly Sheena met and started dating Youtube guy after the end of filming. Ummm Sheena may be the greatest girl in all of the world but I am calling BS on that timeline. How many guys do you know make 4 minute Youtube tribute flix, essentially guaranteeing the ridicule of all of his guy friends and much of the Internet viewing audience, for the birthday of a girl that he has been dating for 1 month (since she left the show sometime in Aug. and that video was posed in Sept)? Yeah there's like 100 pictures including ones of them in the snow and with pumpkins. Maybe they broke up for a bit and then got back together immediately after the show but whty tell peeps that you are dating a guy you met after the show...and how much of a loser does this guy feel like after watching his girl fawn all over Bachelor Brad? Ouch.

"You only get married once" does sound like a kiss-off. But remember how hard Brad tried to give Hillary a heads-up before cutting her? I can't see how the same guy who tried to let Hillary down easy would then turn around and twist the knife like that.

I'm sure they do film those things over and over. I know that many "reality" shows, like Survivor, reshoot scenes to get better angles and backdrops, more drama, etc. That may explain why Brad seems so stilted sometimes: it's the second or third time he has said the same thing. It would also explain some of the women's reactions.

It's entirely possible that Brad gives her a quasi-kiss-off ala the very first Bachelor, in which he says, "I don't want to make a mistake by moving too fast, but I think you COULD be the one (and not just The One but MY One, heh) so blah blah blah continue things see how it goes cakes."

And then, if the chosen 'ette says "fuck you, where's my diamond?" and storms off? TV Gold!

I'm going straight to hell, I know, but it's always been my fervent hope, year in and year out, that the Bachelor will get his final rose refused.

Yeah, me, too. After all the b'ettes who have been led on, made fools of, kissed off, etc. etc., it would be nice to see what goes around, come around. Too bad that it would have to be Brad, who seems better than this show, that would get the payback, but it would be nice to see a b'ette say, "This whole thing is bogus. If you think that I'm going to agree to marry you a week after you had sex with two other girls, you've got another thing coming!"

I just saw the promo, and Brad says, "I've found THE ONE." Then it says that thing about something you've never seen before on The Bachelor. Then there is a strangled woman's voice (as if in tears) saying, "I'm sorry." The voice sounds like Jenni to me. Of course, it could be totally out of context, a soundbyte taken from another part of the show entirely.

I'm probably an old fart, but I just can't imagine spending an overnight with some guy (who is going to be banging two other women soon) after only a few weeks, just to see if the chemistry's there. The whole thing is so incredibly WRONG -- the idea that true love is to be found by process of elimination.

Brad may be cute, but he's not the brightest bulb in the socket. Cute fades, but stupid lasts forever.

I saw this too, and it makes me think that Brad chooses one girl and she turns him down. That would be the most amazing rejection ever. Of course, that's what the promo editors want us to believe, so it's probably not going to happen.

I'm going to speculate that it's DeAnna, and here's why:

1. The ONLY time I've ever seen "posed as sluttish" over "girl you'd marry" choice is Ian and Meredith. Every time a man has chosen, it's been the My Folks Would Love Her! choice. I think that's in the editing - I'm not saying any of them HAVE been slutty - but still.

2. Slow out of gate beats "insta-connection." Again, it's the editing. The girl that gets all the "we have the intense chemistry thing" seems to get the dumping and the limo of shame wailin'.

3. Deep talk beats playful. See above.

I was all excited till I checked the TV listings for Tuesday 11/20 and there IS an "After the Final Rose"--the description reads "A season retrospective in which Brad and his lady discuss their romance, and he faces women he didn't select."

Dammit. I was soooo hoping that the "most surprising blah blah ever ever" would be:
Brad tells both ladies that--while he likes them just fine--he pretended to be torn between the two of them until the last minute out of a contractual oblication, and actually, he's not very interested in either of them, although he found himself more drawn to them than to the other "ladies" selected for him on the show.

Now--since it sounds like Jenni's voice moaning that she's sorry in the promo--I'm guessing it's something really annoying, like he asks Jenni and she says she's not ready to marry him, but she would like to continue their relationship, and the stunning shocker is supposed to be that she says that instead of waiting until ATFR to admit that they were never gonna get married.

Although, even more likely is that the "I'm sorry" was spliced in from some totally unrelated scene, he asks DeAnna to marry him (or Jenni, why not), or to commit to continuing their f-ing journey, and she says yes, and nothing shocking, or even vaguely interesting, happens.

My only, desperate, remaining hope is that TV Guide's reference to "Brad and his lady" in ATFR means that being The Bachelor helped Brad realize that he was still in love with an ex, and he's now forced to confront Jenni and DeAnna about rejecting them.

What I don't get is why is the plural of woman used here? Brad has already "faced" the women he rejected at the WTA therefore there is only one woman he hasn't faced and that is F2.

Exactly, chaserla. That's why I'm nursing a tiny bit of hope that Brad rejected both women.

More likely, though, it means TPTB have revived Sheena and Hilary yet again, or something intensely boring like that.

I fear that nothing remotely as interesting as our speculation is going to happen. I'm sure that Brad proposes, the woman agrees to think about it, or something like that, and then they confront some random b'ettes dragged back from the brink of obscurity. Either that, or he doesn't propose to either, and some of the past b'ettes come back to say, "See, you should have kept me and we'd have been engaged by now."

In the preview for tomorrow's show, it appears that Jenni tells Brad's mom that, should he propose, she would say yes, so maybe that choked out, "I'm sorry" is because she spilled red wine on Brad's "Saturday Night Fever" white suit. lol

The Zap2it blurb says:

"A last minute decision changes everything as Brad prepares to choose his bride."

Hmmm.

His nice suit isn't back from the cleaners, so he has to decide if he'll wear the disco suit? That does change everything. DeAnna might not want to be seen with him and decide she can't date (let alone marry) someone who would choose that suit. So he has to choose Jenni. Shame.

Yahoo TV has a video preview posted. It's all about Jenni, and it's a clip of her telling Brad that she's fallen in love with him, but that she has been afraid to tell him because she wanted him to be able to say it back, and she knows he can't.

http://tv.yahoo.com/the-bachelor/show/28908/videos/

It gives me hope that maybe he picks someone else (a rejected contestant or someone he knew before) and therefore has to face both DeAnna and Jenni for leading them -both- on so long. That would at least be new and different!

Who is the guy in the commercial for this week's episode that appears to be acting stalkerish (watching her on her date with another guy and then shows up at the mansion when she's not expecting him)? Is that Twilley?

Yup.

So, are they editing the promos to make him look like he's being a giant tool on TMTA, or is Graham just being a giant tool on TMTA? I'm going with the latter, since he's kind of sounding like a tool in his media rounds. She may have looked hugely pathetic in doing so, but whatever the reason was for her not giving him a rose, she made a very, very wise choice there.

Fiance could be Jesse, because she voiceover-ed that he makes her want to be a better person. They do use that line a lot to describe the winner.

I don't care that much who wins (though I like Jesse more than Jason). I'm intrigued by the preview of the meeting with DeAnna's family next week. Both guys end up at the folk's place at the same time? Nice twist. How does that happen? Has that ever happened before on the Bachelor/ette?

The same twist occurred in the 9th season of the Bachelor with Prince Lorenzo Borghese. His final 2 Jen and Sadie met his family with their families present.

So.....Jason is the new Deanna then? I KNEW it would be him or Jeremy. Guess Jason aced the audition. Looking forward to 10 million clips of him going down on his knee and Deanna saying "I can't" and Jason talking about how Deanna is Brad2.0 and broke his heart.

This will be like watching paint dry (but with 100% more cute child-pimpage):Well, it might have happened to someone less dull.

I knew it - they had already picked him as TB and then rigged that stupid poll on their site so we'd think that he was actually "chosen" by the fans.

Oh, god, this is so gonna suck...
What in the hell are they gonna say before every rc? "Tune in after the break to see who will lose out on their chance to marry a single dad from Seattle with a creepy, puppy dog stare? ", "Who will have no longer be in the running to live the kinda romance that everyone that they went to college with has?", "Who will lose their chance to screw up a small, cute child by visiting him along with 2 other hottish babes in the hopes that he will them 'Mommy' because the network would love that?"
Pahh.
The BTB have lost it.

I like Jason and the way he conducted himself on The Bachelorette. But people who are effusively nice tend to have a flip side that is effusively not nice. I fear what we'll find out about him on The Bachelor.

Bravo to those who totally called this, and who figured the "email address" set up for Jason was just another casting call. Ugh....why? Why why why? *small voice* Yet, I will watch it.

-Will Jason say, "I have never felt this way before, even when I was married and even when I said the same thing about DeAnna"?
- I agree, the F2 will be a single mom and a childless woman.
-Will they show DeAnna after the final rose, sitting on her couch and eating a sandwich?

This kid has a father who is willing to leave him for six weeks twice in one year to pursue reality TV romance. I'd say young Ty is already screwed.

I haven't visited the forum for quite some time. Are DeAnna and Jesse still together? I heard the devastating news about Matt and Shayne (yawn).

According to a source, it will be taped in Seattle to give Jason as much time with the kid as possible when he's not taping which is apparently a pretty decent chunk of time.



Also as far as can be told, DeAnna and Jesse are still together and still famwhoring their way around the country. Yeah, what a shocker about Matt and Shayne. Like we couldn't see that coming from the second he got on his knee for that fake proposal.

I am most unhappy about the choice of Jason for the Bachelor. I found him sappy, grating, and annoying the first go 'round, so I cannot imagine him front and center for the whole run. However, the main issue that I have is that I watch this show for its ridiculous trashy goodness, the whole "fantasy suite", short term "romance", dating several people at one time schtick. When there are only adults involved, I say go for it, I will happily watch them make asses of themselves, dirty dance, kiss gaggles of women, profess their love, "propose" and go at it for a few months until they are sick of each other/the public bores of them/the contract is up and they break up. I worry that the bachelor having a child will give an overlay of seriousness to this whole debacle, as perhaps it should.

Me too. Also, he runs like a girl and is just all around too feminine to hold my interest. This will join the Prince year as the only seasons I've skipped.

Did anyone else just catch the extended promo for the show that aired during ABC's showing of Sleepless with Seattle tonight? I was floored at some of the stuff that apparently is going to go down this season.

1. Not so surprised at the drama between the women - I guess that's a constant. But it seems like it's going to be pretty intense this season.

2. Seems like there is going to be some sluttiness this season. Interesting, because the bachelor usually gets women that at least know how to act in public and don't get too skanky... usually. Most of the real obvious crazies/skanks get cut the first night. It seemed that there were images of a contestant feeling Jason up publicly...??? And speaking of skankiness, it looks like Jason gets his groove on with a TON of ladies... nasty.

3. WTF is up with Deanna's appearance on the show? I know we'd had speculation that she'd be the hinted-at "mystery guest" this season, but from the promo it makes it sound like she moves into the mansion with Jason or something. Like, all the girls are jealous and freaking out and she won't leave. C.R.A.Z.Y. I want to know how this all was timed against Deanna's breakup with Jesse. I guess the FORT folks will probably figure all that out. Of course, they're probably just overexaggerating Deanna's role and she shows up for one contracted episode and all the contestants freak out anyway because they're just that insecure.

4. Oh man... Jason's awful cryface at what is (apparently??) one of the final rose ceremonies... major buzzkill!

Anyone else see it/notice anything interesting?

I will hate every scene referencing or involving Jason's kid. It will be cringeworthy to watch the kid get mixed up in all of this again. I mean, is the kid going to be handing out roses or involved in the dates? Is the kid going to be at the fantasy suite as well? I really hope not.

Lots of very attractive women in the top 25 - well, at least by looking at the pictures. A couple of the single moms are quite young - 24, 25... No token ethnic girl this time. I don't count Brazilian as "ethnic" per se but she's about as close as we get. Maybe a couple other Latina women. But not a single Asian or black girl in the bunch. Interesting...