Okay I thought I would start this because with Josh Schwartz as the executive producer/creator along with Amy Sherman-Pallandino who worked on Gilmore Girls there are obvious comparisons to both of their previous works, The O.C. and Gilmore Girls respectively. The most obvious one is the OC comparison. I think it's a valid comparison. Yes the books came out before the O.C. but with Josh having a hand in producing this show I really feel like it's becoming obvious with the characters - now having read all 11 books and watching the trailers and the casting.

Josh picked a bunch of unknowns with the exception of Peter Gallagher to cast the O.C. Chace Crawford is from Texas and is an unknown, much like Ben McKenzie was. Nate Archibald however is being pegged as some brooding rich kid. I don't think he'll quite take the heights of Ryan Atwood but it seems to me they are pegging him for a darker role. Obviously Nate in the book does have a big problem with drugs. It'll be interesting to see how that plays off and if he feels like he has to save Blair or Serena. Penn Badgley has done a series of failed shows on the CW network - he reminds me of Adam Brody (not in the humor department or Seth Cohen) but the fact that Adam had done a series of cameos for the WB network and just a couple of movies before he got cast for the show. Penn playing Dan I think is an ideal match and I'm most excited to see how that'll look on camera. Leighton Meester is obviously the Rachel Bilson of the show, playing Blair the total bitch much like Summer Roberts was and she's fairly unknown. Blake Lively - while she looks terrific on camera is not what I was expecting for Serena and I have to say she could possibly become the Mischa Barton of the show, for better or worse. Serena is being set up as the tragic hero, let's just hope she isn't quite as time consuming as Marissa Cooper was. Of course Serena is a much more developed and complex character then Marissa ever was, but the comparisons are there with her possibly falling for the wrong side of the tracks guy. Ed Westwick as Chuck hasn't really impressed me in the trailers much. It seems like Chuck is the sleazeball as in the books but I found his acting in the trailers not exactly what I imagined as Chuck would be.

The other characters I'm not really too sure about as well since to me they haven't really been developed enough - we'll have to see how they are on the show.

The obvious comparisons to the OC have already been set up. Rich kids with dark pasts. What will happen? I think however there are differences since they have the books to rely on and when you read the series you get a much different feel. However something to watch out for I think is Josh's tendency to burn out after one season. The first season of the O.C. was terrific going about a mile a minute with shows. Additionally he's got some promotion behind him on the CW since they are pretty much all over it. Much like FOX was with the OC season 1. It'll be interesting to see if the CW keeps up the promotion or if they back off if viewers do. I pray for Josh's sake that he doesn't get burned out because as a former O.C. junkie, it was hard to watch the show spin away from the original concept. I hope he's learned a few lessons from that and will take it with him here.

The problem I see this show is still the books being the main idea. People have already fallen in love with the books and this is the kind of series that can dictate the creativity. Will it hold viewers interest for more then a few episodes? I think if Josh starts doing the same things he did on the O.C. - people are going to get tired of it. There's only so much of the "foursome-sixsome" kind of lines that anyone can handle. i.e. the same love triangles repeated over and over. It seems so predictable. But the teen show always has an audience. I pray for the cast of GG that Josh doesn't get burned out as I said. Otherwise you can expect the show to die a quick death, in my opinion.

Amy was involved with the proposed film adaptation. Her pilot is Jezebel James, she's not affiliated with this show. Josh is working with Stephanie Savage again. But I completely agree with your point -- even Josh has said he can't imagine staying with any show more than four years.

Thanks for changing the name of this topic! I was unsure how else to word it, so I appreciate it. Thank you for correcting me too about the Amy pilot as well. I had forgotten about that.

I think Josh is great at creating ensemble casts. I've gone and read the other thread in general about this entire show and the books. I feel like it'll be interesting for the first 8 or 9 episodes and then...Josh will throw in the "oliver" wrench and screw it up. I mean he's great at like big openings and big finishes. But anyone who has watched the OC for the entire series like I did, knows he lags in the middle and tends to just recycle storylines repeatedly.

I think it's going to be way interesting how many viewers from a show like One Tree Hill make the switch as well. I'm thinking the execs at the CW are banking on it so that One Tree Hill can make some "graceful" exit from the show and them not have the Everwood crisis they had at the network. The CW really needs GG to succeed as they have pissed off everyone with the cancellation of VM. It was a nice thing to offer Kristen Bell that as well - to be the voice of GG which I think she loans a sense of credibility to the show.

Overall I feel the show will succeed but teenagers are notoriously fickle and these books are incredibly popular. If he starts screwing with Nate/Blair too much - even if the book calls for it and focuses way too much on the Dan/Serena thing, I have a feeling people are going to be pissed off. As for me I never was this big Blair fan so I found her tantrums a little annoying.

This show is up against Private Practice on ABC and Criminal Minds on CBS. It's going to get butchered in the ratings. Poor Josh just can't escape Shonda Rhimes! For those that don't remember the OC was on against Grey's Anatomy and got slaughtered every week in ratings it's last season.

Yeah, the Private Practice irony has me a little worried.

I completely agree with what you're saying, and I'm sorry that I came off as "correcting" you. That's crappy and I apologize. Although I will say that my impression has always been that Josh was off doing development during S2 & 3, and the reason S4 was so awesome was that he came back, and the whole team decided to make it awesome as an apology for S3. I'm paraphrasing a bit, but I do hold S3 against Josh less than perhaps I should.

Although I guess that still doesn't explain Oliver. Loved him anyway.

Your point about alienating the built-in fanbase, I hadn't thought about that at all. That's pretty scary. The MM thread here is full of adults calling it a guilty pleasure, so I guess the buzz is that it's skewing young. Which is fine, but if all we're counting on to watch it are those young girl fans of the books, it could be crazy hard to walk that line. Obviously, my hope would be that it develop into a family-smart show that attracts across age brackets, like The OC -- though even The OC never really shed that teenage demo perception either, did they? -- and based on the talent and people involved, I see no reason it shouldn't.

As a teenage girl who has read and loved all of the books as well as it's spin-off, I will be quite angry if this show goes the typical "teen drama" route. I will be turned off of GG if this show resembles the O.C. and One Tree Hill, both of which I never liked. If it must be like any teen dramas then I pray it will be Veronica Mars. That was a show that had smart writing, and an amazing ensemble cast. Hopefully, they don't cater to the younger audience and throw in insulting storylines, because I can wait for September 30th and just watch Season 2 of Dexter.

The thing is with the CW network behind it I don't have any faith in the network. They have proven time and time again that the protypical soap opera type of show they want is in the vein of Dawson's Creek/OTH. And now I can see why Josh never brought the O.C to the CW when they offered it. I definitely have fears given the CW's past about promotion if this show is going to make it. Overall it has a great shot with all the promotion. I live in New York City and the billboards are up everywhere. They are really going for it. This is part of the reason the show has always interested me but given how the trailers are and ....Josh has written his love triangles to the hilt on the O.C. I really wonder if he's going to make this something new and exciting or are we going to after about the second or third episode go: I've had enough of the O.C. rehash.

I'm an "older" fan and it's definitely a guilty pleasure for me. But I hope he can develop the adults a little further. One thing that made the OC great was the development of adults having their own storylines. But the books have really not developed the adults except for Blair Waldorf's mom and dad. Serena's mom and dad are basically non-existent.

I agree with you about not having faith in the network. However, the WB was responsible for DC and OTH. Personally, I don't see any reason in separating DC, OTH, and The O.C. because when it comes right down to it, they are all teen shows. I really wouldn't call them soaps, though, since it isn't daytime.

Topic, please.

I think the show will be written with an adult edge, just basing this on the first episode feel. I still think there will be some wildly outlandinsh storylines that a "typical" teen would never be involved with, but when you have a cast with a bunch of 20-somethings portraying 16/17 year olds, I think they at least try to give them more "adult" situations. Just be lucky we're not dealing with any Andrea Zuckerman's here.

Wow, and I thought other shows actors looked too old for the part. I only saw about 10 minutes of thie pilot, but no way these people can pull off being in high school.

The girl playing Jenny is like 14, and was born in 1993. She was Cindy Lou or whatever in how Jim Carrey Stole Christmas.

Serena just turned 20 in real life, which means she was about 19 when she filmed the pilot. Blair is 21. The guy playing Nate is 22. Penn B. aka Dan was born in November 1986, which would make him just getting ready to turn 21. Chuck was born in 1987, making him 20. With the exception of Taylor Mormenson, everyone was born in 1985/1986/1987...which isn't too bad, as they are portraying characters who were probably born around 1989/1990/1991. Compare that to Gabrielle Carteris, who was born in 1961 but played a girl born around 1975, and the more recent example of Ben McKenzie, who was born in 1978 but played a boy who was born around 1987/1988.

All in all, we really don't have a single Andrea Zuckerman here. No one is even in their mid-20's yet, which the majority of both the O.C. cast and Veronica Mars were. Sure, they'd definitely look more in place as college upperclassmen as opposed to high school upperclassmen, but trust me...there's not a huge difference in how a 17 year old looks and how a 21-year old looks. Guys generally have more facial hair and are a little more developed, and that's it. We dress exactly the same otherwise.

Based on the pilot, GG doesn't seem afraid to go darker than most other teen dramas. For that alone, I could really see it going for the tone of "Rules of Attraction" rather than recent tv shows, especially if they aren't too concerned with making everyone redeemable and sympathetic.

I kinda like the fact that it looks like Chuck is totally geting away with assaults on girls. I do think that most other teen dramas would have made sure that he got "punished", but the fact that he isn't shows that they really are willing to go darker.

A bit late to the party, (having just watched the pilot), but I was more disconcerted by the VM references/allusions/shoutouts than the OC ones. That hand hold between Dan and Serena was so Logan/Veronica, S1 - from the party Aaron hosted for Logan, (I think). And also the way the rape/attempted rape scenario (S3 bizarro) was treated. Or was it just the Kirsten Bell VO that gave it that feeling?

That felt like a very odd mix between the two (OC/VM) and I couldn't work it out - maybe that's because I haven't read the GG books, but it seemed quite weak and unsure of what it was offering.

I think it is probably worth watching and seeing if it gets into any sort of stride, but if one was to compare it to either the VM or OC pilot, then it's clear that no one actor/actress or plot line stands out to hook you in, and those were definite strengths displayed in both of those programmes.

While the two attempted rapes in one episode was bothersome, and just a little bit unnecessary, I think it was interesting that these were attempts by a friend/acquaintance (I don't have stats on hand, but I believe it is far more common to be raped by someone you know than a random attack), that Chuck isn't immediately punished (because while I wish he were, I know that this is a little truer to life), and ... oh crap. i just remembered that Canada gets episodes one day before. Anyway, I thought the treatment was a little more realistic than what can be seen on TV/film (i.e. the cliché crying in the shower type scenes). Although, a friend often questions why there is a need to have rapes in teen dramas, if they really are necessary to the narrative. But that's one I'm undecided on (more realistic treatments versus having them at all).


On a different note, I really like the casting of Jenny and Eric. They look like young teenagers. The other actors, thankfully, aren't pushing 30, but it is good to see at least two actors look younger. It's one of the things you notice about the two Degrassi series versus various teen shows on American networks - age appropriate casting. I'm not sure why, but it's pretty standard practice to hire actors who are at least 20 to portray teenagers. BTW, having not read the books, how old are Serena/Blair/etc supposed to be?

I think there's a difference between a character not being punished for their behaviour on the show, and the writers either ignoring the character's behaviour or not making it seem like a big deal. We'll see, but I suspect Chuck will be yet another in a long list of bad boys who's not really bad because he had bad parents or a bad haircut. So, he tried to rape two girls? But he's soooo broody and hot and snarky! Whatever.

As long as Chuck remains an ass with no chance of redemption from the writers (which I'm doubting), then this show may actually stand out from the teen drama genre.

Although this show has done an even better job of making their minority characters irrelevant. They make Sam on Smallville look complex!

Hee. Long live Pete! At least he had more lines and actually figured into the storylines of SV more. The two girls on this show are there mostly for decoration.

The OC vs. Gossip Girl


I think they totally missed stepped with the Serena/Nate shipping.

Regarding the issue of actors looking older than their characters should, I feel I should point out that many teenagers do look "older" these days. I went to an all-girls school, and the majority of them were frequently mistaken for (or passed for ) being a few years older. My best friend has had waiters bringing alcoholic rather than virgin drinks without questions since she was about 14. They just assumed. When you have the access to clothes, make-up, spas, etc... that Blair & Serena would, I find it entirely believable that they would look closer to Hollywood starlets than fresh-faced tomboys. I thought they looked exactly like the people I knew in high school.

I believe you Mer Garnet. I remember flipping through Teen Vogue once, and there were these two girls with their ages listed as 12 and 13 and it was as if someone photoshopped 30 year old women's head onto their bodies. It was freaking surreal. They had the eyeliner, lipgloss and the perfectly plucked/shaped eyebrows. I was especially taken aback by the 12 year old, she had pigtails in her hair and was dressed in pink, but in no way did it make her look any younger than 23. If my scanner worked right now, I would post that picture.

It does seem to be sort of a phenomena right now, kind of like a return to the days of the early 20th century when teenagers looked very mature, like full grown adults.

Add Ali Lohan (Lindsay's younger sis) to that list. I saw a photo of her in a bikini and she looked about 19, but she is only 12. I think more than any show I can remember in recent times, this lot look very age appropriate, especially as they are living in NYC where kids grow up much faster!

Topic, please.

I think a crucial difference for me between GG and other teen dramas is the lack of preachiness, whether that's a good or bad thing...

Yeah, I definitely am appreciating the lack of preachiness. I can't stand a show feels like an after-school special.

I also appreciate the relative snappiness of the dialogue.

I like the Degrassi series ten times better. This is more like observing the hyena compound at the zoo; fascinating in its own right but keep them far away from me.

I still sort of feel like it's trying to top The O.C., but it just fails. Josh just did a better job with The O.C. Gossip Girl almost seems like an afterthought at time. I can see glimpses of Josh's work, but that's it. For example, I loved the montage in the pilot when there's the Serena/Nate flashback, Nate telling Blair, and Chuck trying to "rape" Serena. I also LOVED the choir singing Fergie while everyone gets ready. I just wish Josh would step it up.

I've tried to watch degrassi so many times and I cannot get passed the horrid acting, then when I juuuust start to, I get frustrated with the cheesy storylines. It's just so wanna-be deep when really it's trying too hard and it shows.

And I've already had my words about The OC. I'm still trying to figure out why it's held up with such high esteem. It had approximately one awesome season, imo. OC may have had "heart" or whatever but someone in another thread said this show is "heartless" which is why I think I'm liking it so much. It's kinda of like the bizarro world OC. Lots of bitchy characters, no friendship is sacred, no relationship "destined". I find that so much more fascinating.

I have to agree with shalia17, I tried to watch Degrassi and just couldn't get passed the horrendous acting and the even more horrendous storylines.

I honestly loved The OC but I am enjoying Gossip Girl more overall. The highs aren't as high as The OC but there isn't the acting low of Mischa Barton either.

I'm not sure how Degrassi is cheesier than Gossip Girl.

Gossip Girl needs to avoid becoming a show about a love triangle, which was ultimately The OC's biggest downfall. Brenda/Dylan/Kelly didn't heat up until the third season!

I think it's cheesier because of how they deal with their subject matters. Someone's pregnant, someones shot, someone's using drugs, someone is killed! OMG!!111 We deal with hard hitting issues y'all!! It just strikes me as very after-school special mixed in with unnecessary angst. And the light-hearted eps are just boring and useless. Plus the dialogue and acting is CRAPPY! All my opinion of course but I could only make it through a few eps before my eyes started to glaze over.

I know it's beloved. My BFF has been addicted since high school, I humor her and act like I care but really the show can fade into oblivion and I wouldn't notice and/or care.

I hope shalia is talking about Degrassi & not The OC, otherwise I will cry*!
I think people are bound to compare The OC & Gossip Girl (and Chuck too), as there are similarities (pretty young rich people having parties, some of the actors could have swapped parts with OC characters, in terms of physical appearance at least). I personally really like both & actually managed to forget that GG is Josh's project when I watched ep 3 of G last night!
It feels different to The OC to me, but it's drawn me in with the interesting, imperfect characters and all the cool clothes!
Needless to say, I'm hooked!


* Just joking-I'm emotionally stable & mature enough to cope with my choice of TV viewing being mocked, honest!

If you guys can't discuss this concept without getting defensive and weird, we'll shut down the thread. Bring your big-girl panties to this discussion, please.

This article seemed a little bit.. well, I don't know if they've done their research or even watched the show?? I don't see how Nate is the love of Serena's life? They seemed to mention it quite a bit and from the episodes I've seen, I'm guessing Serena isn't all that interested in continuing her fling with Nate. I assumed they were setting up a Serena/Dan pairing. And other than the Rufus mention, they didn't talk about the Humphrey's at all?

I think they make some other good points about the differences in the show though. I don't really think the dynamics of the relationships are similar and the characters are pretty different. It has some similar basic ideas (rich kids, poor kids etc.) but the characters are WORLDS apart and the issues they're dealing with (Ivy league schools, pressuring parents, no money=no success etc.) are not the same as OC issues (poor kid gets a second chance in rich community to do well etc.).

I am seeing some Cruel Intentions similarities. I haven't actually read the books so I don't know if they'll head in this direction but the last episode had Cruel Intentions written all over it - with the whole 'lets ruin this Serena's life' and with promiscuous/sleazy Chuck channelling Ryan Philippe. Blair was way less evil than Catherine in CI but the two together reminded me of scenes in CI when they're plotting destruction.. I am somehow doubting they'll continue along this line, and guessing they'll give a redemption plotline to Chuck (this is utter speculation of course) but would really rezpect! if the show went darker.

I was talking about Degrassi! Sorry for the confusion.

I absolutely cannot stand Degrassi anymore. I try to watch the new, what, 127th season? but I just can't bare through it. They seem to have run out of ideas because I feel like I'm watching the same storylines over and over again (Darcy raped and in denial about it a la Paige season 2). They also have a creepy obsession with former Mary Sue characters turning into sluts. The show just takes itself way too seriously, atleast to seriously for the type of dialouge and acting that goes along with it....which I hope isn't the case with Gossip Girl.

Better? :)

Topic, please.

Ha, thanks.

(from the episode thread)

I agree with your analysis of the characters of GG, in comparison to those of The OC. Dan is a "new Seth", and that's one of the reasons why I'd see him better paired with Blair (sort of the new Summer) instead of with our new and improved Marissa (Serena). This said, in my opinion in Dan there is also something of Ryan: his being a knight in shining armour always ready to rescue a demsel is definitely similar to Atwood and not to Seth: in the OC there were two outsiders, Ryan and Seth, who teamed up and managed to get the girls of their dreams (at least until Josh went nuts and killed Marissa), while on GG Dan is the only outsider and a mix of Seth/Ryan. That's the reason why I think Dan is better suited to be a leading character than Seth was, and can be viably coupled with Serena, the new and improved Marissa. Unfortunately the little Ryan that is in Dan make me find him very boring, just as boring as Ryan and all the other "good guys" like Dawson Leery, Brandon Walsh, etc. are. Plus, Ryan tendency of rescuing people managed to ruin also Marissa, who had to get in trouble every ten minutes in order for him to be a true knight in shining armour. I hope they escape this risk in GG.
Luckily the part of Dan that reminds me of Seth redeems him, and make me wish for a romance with Blair who'd probably manage to lighten him up. So now the question is, who is the best match for Serena? I'm still in doubt: maybe Nate, if he grows a spine, and she doesn't develop Marissa's addiction to troubles, but I'm not sure. Where is the Pacey for this Joey? The Dylan for this Brenda? Where do we have to look for the epic love story compulsory in every teen show? Can Dan lose his Sethness and become a Romeo?

The fact that the characters of GG and the OC resemble each other doesn't really bother me, but what I don't like is the feeling I have that GG is losing the original voice it had in the first episodes, and is getting more and more similar to the OC, not in terms of characters or storylines, but of "vibe". Is anyine getting the same impression?

I totally agree with GG taking on The O.C.'s tones... specifically, I think that there was something very feel good about The O.C. - something very family-oriented and moral and ethical - and GG is going there. I actually had my parents watch the first season of The O.C. when it came out on dvd and they loved it, they felt that the family at the center of the show had very ethical values (specifically the Peter Gallagher character). GG has an inherent difference in that there isn't a core family. In that the parents show up, it is generally as a foil for the children. Though Humphrey Dad is slowly evolving (think about how in the first episode he couldn't pay attention to his kids at all - he was too consumed with his wife leaving him) into that Gallagher kind-of Father Knows Best character. I think that the tone got lost when Serena and Blaire made up - the stakes are lower now. Before, there was a bomb in the show: Was Blair going to destroy Serena's life? Now there is nothing quite as horrifying.

I was a big fan of The OC during the first season and I was also a major fan of the Gossip Girl books so when I heard that they were making it into a show, I was a little apprehensive that it'd become The OC 2.0 and lose the tone of the books. While you can draw numerous similarities between the two, I think Gossip Girl is actually quite different from The OC.

Major difference for me? Definitely Blair and Serena's friendship. In The OC, Marissa and Summer were supposed to be BFFs but they had practically nothing in common except for the same zipcode! Blair and Serena may be opposites in many aspects but I think that Josh Schwartz has done a better job this time round of actually convincing us that they were such great friends. In The OC, the Summer/Marissa scenes mainly consisted of Marissa complaining to Summer of all her problems whilst Summer helped her out but got nothing in return. I'm not hating on Marissa or anything, but the Blair/Serena friendship in GG just seems so much more genuine because it's actually reciprocal.

As for the character comparisons, I guess they're inevitable as TV show characters are bound to share some of the same, general traits (tortured, sarcastic, nerdy) but I'm really liking how each character on GG has developed so far and steered away from their supposed OC counterparts. Serena's far less tortured and more generous than Marissa, Blair's as equally vulnerable as Summer but probably more malicious and Dan may be an outsider but he's a lot less self-conscious and ballsier than Seth.

I think the teens (specifically girls) were a lot nicer on The O.C. Marissa or Summer would NEVER have done the whole Ostroff thing or done the whole "hazing' thing with Jenny. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I just think it's interesting. Josh seems to be taking a darker turn... I like it though. And this is coming from a HUGE OC fan.

You can't really compare here. The girls on The O.C., as strange as it is, were never estranged or had rough times with each other. I mean, Seth did not sleep with Marissa, nor Summer did not sleep with Ryan. It is just to show that there was more tension between early Serena/Blair than all of Summer/Marissa.

Thus, this explains why such cruel acts have not been performed on The O.C.

I see your point. I guess I was trying to get across that these girls behave and act different. However, in season 1 episode 7 of The O.C., when they all go to Mexico, Marissa caugth Holly with Luke, and realized they'd been hooking up. Holly was one of Marissa's really good friends. Marissa didn't try to ruin Holly's life though.

Can you imagine Marissa caring enough about anything to get angry about it? The Nate/Marissa comparisons are deadon for a reason.

Gosh, all this talk about The OC makes me want to go watch my DVD's, haha.



What about S3, when Summer and Marissa could barely look each other in the eye?

That's why the relationships on the show remind more of OTH than the O.C.

Does it really remind you of OTH? I guess I can't really see it...... Can you elaborate?????

I can kind of see it. Brooke and Peyton used to be really close but then they had a falling out over Lucas. So superficially, it is like the Blair/Serena/Nate situation.

I've seen season one of 90210 and some of season 2, but I heard about Dillon and Jennie Garth (what's her character's name????)going behind Brenda's back, then dating. Does anyone know if it was at all similar to Gossip Girl??????

No, it wasn't really similiar, because Dylan wasn't secretly in love with Kelly Taylor the whole time he was with Brenda, which seems like the case with Nate/Serena/Blair. Dylan was 100% head-over-heels in love with Brenda for the two years (off and on) they were together, and still had feelings for her long after they broke up for good. And after Kelly and Dylan got together senior year, their relationship was awful, constantly marred by jealousy on both sides and ending with Kelly cheating on him.

I don't think, if Nate and Blair broke up for good, Serena would even have him. Kelly was not that scrupulous, however, and seemed to think she was entitled to Dylan.

Kelly was a Serena-ish type of character, especially as the series wore on and after the Brenda character left and Kelly was the lead female. Heaven help us if Blair's character ever leaves the show and there's no one to balance Serena's ... Serenaness. The latter years of 90210 are painful with the Saint Kelly worship. At least with Blake Lively I can UNDERSTAND why everyone thinks Serena's hot shit and model material, Jennie Garth, while lovely, is not exactly model material yet we were supposed to buy her as this supermodel.