For starters, we're not doing separate actor/character threads. Other than that, let's see how it plays out.

Read the Q&A thread in the main forum and the Site FAQ first, then feel free to ask away.

BOOK SPOILERS

Will be treated like regular spoilers. If your speculation is based on either the books or conventional spoiler sources, it goes in the SPOILED column.

I was wondering if later on if the show gets popular if we could have a separate actor/character distinction. It could get confusing and as the show's fan base grows people are going to want to ...excuse the pun here..gossip about the actors.

Okay, like I said in the post immediately above yours, that's not going to happen.

If by "confusing" you mean people being unable to tell the difference between Penn Badgley and Dan Humphrey, there's not a way to fix that using my powers as a moderator.

No thread for Miss Gossip Girl herself, Kristen Bell? I realize that she's just a VO and that it would probably make more sense to discuss her on the Heroes forum since she'll most likely be more active as a character on that show but it seems a bit unfair.

As I've said elsewhere, if you can think of something interesting to say about Gossip Girl, go ahead and start the thread.

Okay, how about a question from me to you? If you don't want to reply in-thread, send me a PM.

Here's my deal: I don't like HoYay threads. I realize that shipping is a part of fandom and that it's very fun to ship all kinds of things. You may have noticed I don't shy from certain HoYay discussions in the recaps.

However. HoYay threads, to me, are pretty creepy overall. They ghettoize into a oneupmanship situation, or they get shipper-intense about fighting over things that never happened on the show, or they get graphic. Mostly, though, my problem is that they sometimes extrapolate from things on the show along really hurtful, offensive and stereotypical lines.

I would rather keep discussions of fluid and speculative sexuality in the mainstream; that is, I would like the board to be open to sexual discussions across the board. These are children, yes, but they are children for whom sexuality is on the board. It's one of the things I love about the show. And one of the things that I love about fandom is the ability to interrogate the text from various perspectives, so to speak.

Deleting the HoYay thread is not a Strikethrough maneuver. I want to be clear about that. I don't care what you talk about. It's all open.

So then what am I up to? I'm not trying to operate from a selfish perspective, so I'm trying to be transparent: shipping bores me and HoYay creeps me out.

I am a queer man. Watching that -- my life -- get twisted into something to giggle about, and ogle and wish and fantasize about, gives me the willies. That's my honest reaction. But that's not why I deleted the HoYay thread. I want you guys to be able to express your thoughts about, and explore, the show, in whatever way you see fit. Frankly, I'd lose the shipper threads altogether, because I feel that those elements of the show are just that: elements in a larger tapestry.

You should feel free to discuss Jenny/Blair and the romantic and sexual elements of their relationship in the same post as discussing the symbolism of the hydrangeas, or the joke Dan tells in Act II, or how you feel about this or that plot turn. I'd like to recenter the romantic and sexual debates as part of the overall discussion of the show and episodes themselves.

Does this make sense at all? I want this to be a discussion, so again: feel free to say it here or over PM. I just don't want anybody to feel creepy about expressing their opinion, because they're all valid.

Now, wish me luck. I'm about to say the same thing to the DW/Torchwood people. I don't think it's going to go very smoothly.

Note: This is not about the HoYay! thread.

Are you saying that there *won't* be any 'shipper threads on this Gossip Girl board because 'shipping bores you personally?

I understand what you're saying about romantic and/or sexual relationships and how they're just another part of the show, but I completely disagree. I don't think you can overestimate the role of the 'ship in fandom, especially a teen soap fandom like this one. Don't you think people will get sick of all the posts about Dan/Blair in the Blair thread? They don't really belong there but there isn't anywhere else to put them. Won't fans go elsewhere if they find there's nowhere on this board to discuss the ways Serena and Dan have already demonstrated that they are good for each other (or whatever)? Won't people go elsewhere if they find the episode threads overrun with 'shippy posts that deserve their own thread?

An interesting couple with crazy UST or a relationship dynamic that I can relate to is a *huge* draw for me, and I want to be able to post about it in a place where the other posters are as interested in the couple as I am. I'd really like to see some relationship threads on here, starting with the canonical 'ships. I mean no disrespect, but you said that you are not trying to operate from a selfish perspective, and I can't see how losing the 'shipper threads because they don't interest you is anything other than operating from a selfish perspective. You don't have to be excited about them personally to moderate them, right?

ETA: I appreciate you responding graciously and at length. And I'm relieved that you're not about to clamp down on 'shippy talk in the other threads.

But I don't think one all-purpose romance thread qualifies as a 'shipper thread. The point of a 'shipper thread is a narrow focus on one particular couple: a place to share the glee and indulge in a minute dissection of their every interaction if you're a fan, and a way to easily avoid that shit if you're not. Bunging all the talk about all the 'ships into a single thread sounds like a recipe for rivalry, defensiveness, conflict, and general wankery, imo.

No, I'm saying that shipper talk should be allowed in every thread. Kind of the opposite of what you're saying. I'm willing to keep one shipper thread.

I'd prefer to let it be part of the larger discussion, but I realize that this is an option that wouldn't serve everyone: people who aren't shippers would feel dominated, and shippers would feel marginalized. I'm willing to go with one single shipper thread. It's not my personal preference, but as you say, that's not fair: people want to talk about ships, I'm not going to stop it just because I personally think it's missing the point. If I ever moderate that way, feel free to tell me to STFU.

You have a place here, and I'm trying to figure out what that place is. What I'm not willing to negotiate is gay stereotypes. I think if you re-read my post you'll find that I don't condemn, and I'm trying not to take a personal approach. Just because shipping bores me, as I said, is not a reason to take that discussion away from you. This is a discussion. It's what we do here.

You want a shipper thread, you can have one. And I'll moderate it gently, because your opinions are awesome and valid. My feelings about shipping are ... so not the point. Either of moderating or of the post you're replying to. My point is about closing the HoYay thread, not about the shippers, and you're seizing on like one sentence in my totally tl;dr post to make your point.

Yeah, I think shipping is dumb. But no, that has nothing to do with me doing my job. Frankly, a shipper thread is a boon to a mod on a show like this: when it stops being about the episode, or the show, or canon, it's really handy to send it to the shipper thread where it belongs. It makes my job easier. I just don't want anybody to feel screwed or marginalized in the process, which was the whole point of my question.

Watching that -- my life -- get twisted into something to giggle about, and ogle and wish and fantasize about, gives me the willies.

I...well, I can honestly say that when people giggle/ogle/wish/fantasize about HoYay in canon, while there's some amount of voyeuristic delight involved, they don't mean to be personal or malicious. I apologise if my post might have somehow conveyed that -- but really, if I giggle, it's only because Chuck's character is such an indiscriminate libertine and fop, he's almost Cleland-esque. (his sexual escapades, on and off-screen, read like an updated version of an 18th century erotic novel.)

While I'm a little sorry that the HoYay thread* was closed, if I'm reading "you want a shipper thread, you can have one" correctly, I'm assuming it means that the Chuck/Nate folks or the Blair/Serena folks can still have their personal corners to discuss all kinds of subtext from the show. I just want to emphasise this: if our discussion takes on a slightly gossipy tone, it isn't in disservice to any of the characters.

* a tertiary thread created more out of necessity, because such discussion is not always welcome on the characters' main threads, than the desire to marginalise.

Firstly, TWoP Bayliss, thanks for coming in here and explaining what you did. I thought you jumped on the HoYay thread a little fast, but it's nice to see a mod come on and explain why they did what they did.

The main problem I see with saying "make the romantic debates part of the show discussion" is that shouldn't we then just have one thread for the whole show? Just stick it in the Dramas section and have done with it. Surely the whole point of the multiple-thread show-forums is to discuss individual elements of the show (individual characters, episodes, NY-references, show vs. other teen-dramas, ratings etc.) on a more detailed basis than a single show-thread? HoYay would appear to be one of the things people want to discuss.

In all honesty, HoYay and the discussion of it sometimes annoys the hell out of me, especially when people seem to be massively reaching to find it in the text. But in several cases it doesn't seem to be much of a reach in this show. Just like something like Buffy/Faith wasn't much of a stretch of the imagination, Serena/Blair seems plausible, and Jenny's worship of Blair seems only a step away from being a concubine. And in some ways, isn't the suggestion that something may happen (or have happened already) between Serena and Blair, or Nate and Chuck, or whomever, just as valid as people contemplating Dan/Blair or even Jenny/Eric, neither of which are 'text' yet either?

From the post you put in the thread as you closed it, it seemed that sexualising Jenny troubled you, and that I can understand, but it's difficult to avoid. She's only 14 (both the character and actress, which adds another level), but in a show like this she's going to be a sexualised character within the text to some extent, so discussing it outside can't really be avoided. If it's something that you feel shouldn't be discussed on this website (which would be understandable, seeing as she's underage in the country where the show takes place and the vast majority of the ones where it'll be seen), then maybe a stuck note stating that at the top of the thread would be a good idea - or at least a note asking people to remember that when they might be getting a little too graphic in their discussions.

Maybe one generic 'shipper' thread could contain HoYay discussions as well, and that would help contain everything, but I can't help feeling that getting rid of the HoYay thread entirely is just pushing all the discussion out to multiple other threads when it could be centralised and discussed more easily within one - and isn't that pretty much the point of having seperate threads in the first place?

That is my preference, yes.



I don't know how to answer a reductio like that: to say that I'm closing one thread does not imply that I'd be happier closing all of them, and I think I was pretty clear about that. If you're implying that I'm a thread-killing fascist who wants to take away your basic rights as a human being, I'm not sure how productive the conversation can be. I asked for responses to a pretty simple question: no threats, no future plans. A discussion.



I agree. The reasons that I want to mainstream those topics into a shipper thread and the other existing threads were laid out pretty extensively in the post to which you're responding.



Again, I tried to be clear above that the Jenny thing wasn't the issue.

Hey, I was just wondering something. A lot of the other shows have a third big Thread Grouping, for fun stuff like Corrupt A Wish, Three Word Story, etcetera. Will Gossip Girl ever be getting one of these?

(PS: Off Topic, but I read through this thread before posting as per the rules, and can I just say a major WORD to pretty much your entire post explaining why you closed down the HoYay thread?)

Thanks.

We might be getting a Whimsy subforum at some point -- let's see how the traffic goes through the strike and maybe revisit it.