I watched the pilot and, for all the comparisons to Dynasty, it's really so much better than that. I mean, it has that rich-scandalous-family vibe, but it's also smart.

There is a mystery set up in the pilot (Nick's father's death was possibly at the hands of one of the Darlings) that I'm not sure will help or hinder the show. But I still have high hopes.

There are some funny one-liners, some outrageous plot lines that work in spite of themselves (William Baldwin's affair with the transvestite is definitely something unusual and cool), and the cast is superb. I especially think the twins will be comic relief, but there's plenty of funny to mine in the cheating, slimy reverend.

Small correction: Candis Cayne, as well as the character she plays, is a transsexual (or T-girl, or "tranny"), not a transvestite.

A transvestite is a man who wears women's clothes (vestite from the Latin for garment). Eddie Izzard, for example, is a heterosexual transvestite.

A transsexual is a person who was born of one gender but feels that they should have been the other. They usually, but not always, takes steps to physically transform their body to match their internal gender identification. (Some prefer the term "transgendered.")

There are about 40,000 postoperative transsexual women in the United States. Some medical researchers have estimated that as many as 1 in 500 boys born in the US will at some point in their lives identify as transgendered (about 50 in 500 would identify as gay), but it's hard to get real numbers.

As for why it makes a difference: an XY transvestite may take on a "female identity" while wearing female clothing, or may not, but perceives himself as male.
An XY transsexual, on the other hand, regardless of what she is wearing, perceives herself as always female.

Candis Cayne is not a man who dresses as a woman. She is a woman who happened to be born with male organs.

An XY transsexual may be gay (attracted to women) or straight (attracted to men).
An XY transvestite may be gay (attracted to men) or straight (attracted to women).

Easiest clue, of course, is that if the XY person has physical breasts, she is probably a transsexual.

Lynn Conway has an excellent website on XY transsexuals with more statistics and individual stories.

marty118, I know the difference and I know that Candis is a transsexual, but it wasn't clear in the pilot that her character was a transsexual and not a transvestite. And since the character Nick keeps calling her a "tranny hooker" and William Baldwin only corrects him with "She's not a hooker!" I assumed the character was a transvestite.

Anyway, most of this is off-topic in this thread, but if you want to talk about it in detail, you are welcome to open a thread about Candis.

My apologies if I was confusing--it makes a considerable difference in terms of spoilers.

In the pilot, she's called a "tranny" (which usually applies to transsexuals, not usually transvestites, who are called, if anything, drag queens), and in the interview on TWOP she mentions that she's a transsexual playing a transsexual, probably the first time that's been done for a major character on network television (on Ugly Betty, there is a transsexual character, but she's played by an XX woman).

In terms of spoilers, a married man who has a transsexual as a mistress is engaging in rather a different kind of affair than one who has a transvestite as a lover. For one thing, in many states (not just Massachusetts) it's legal for a man to marry a post op XY transsexual. Again, these are people who consider themselves female, and can, in many states, have themselves legally defined so.

A transsexual is far more likely, for example, to have an expectation that her lover will leave his wife and marry her. It's a secret that can be kept, or at least that one can try to keep, after the liason is made public. So plotwise, it can go in a very different direction.

Based on the spoilers so far, Candis has indicated that her affair continues for at least 6 episodes, and it may go beyond that. At one point, according to one set of spoilers, she specifically brings up the issue of marriage. As an XY transsexual, she may by now have a (reissued) birth certificate that says "female,." making marriage possible in New York. A male transvestite wouldn't have the same option.

It makes the issues for the characters different. Politically, it unquestionably makes the candidate just as vulnerable, if not more so. But just as two people, they have options that a man and his transvestite lover would not.

So I do think it's relevant to the spoilers, not just the character. Again, I apologise if I was unclear as to why I think the difference matters to this topic.

Well, it sounds like you know a lot more spoilers than I do, so please ... share them here. I've only seen the pilot and I, for one, am interested in what's to come after that.

Thanks for all of the explanation. I have now read Couch Baron's interview in its entirety, which I hadn't as of the time I posted about this. So, thanks for the clarifications. I actually thought "tranny" was used to refer to transvestite, which is my mistake. Either way it seemed derogatory to me, and I was annoyed that William Baldwin only corrected Nick on his use of "hooker." Clearly his usage of both was disrespectful.

I do understand all of the differences you're talking about, and I already was aware of all of that. My only confusion was what the character was supposed to be, which I still don't think is clear in the pilot. The interview makes that clear, though, so we're all set.

Investigating further, it seems tranny can refer to transsexual OR transvestite.

I've added a relationship thread, by the way, so all of the in-depth discussion about this relationship should go there -- it's not a spoiler that the relationship exists but obviously tag anything that's a spoiler over there. Thanks!

Oddly a couple of different actors have indicated in interviews that their character is "the only honest person in the group." There are obviously a lot of secrets that will be revealed. Here are a couple coming up in the first 6 episodes:

1. Letitia, the mother, had a long-standing affair with Nick's father. Her husband Tripp may or may not have known about it.

2. Nick's father may have been murdered by one of the Darlings. Several of the secrets will indicate possible motives (for example, the affair). Nick also discovers that his father may have been working for Tripp's business rival, Simon Elder (to be played by Blair Underwood).

3. The Reverend has an illegitimate son. He will bring the boy into his home, telling his wife that he is a "Swedish orphan." The wife will start to suspect something when she discovers the boy speaks English.

4. Carmelita, the would-be Senator's mistress, is a transsexual.

5. There is at least one blackmail plot, and possibly two. One involves a sex tape of one of the children.

6. Juliet is either suicidal or drug-addicted, but there's a definite subplot involving pills.

7. Nick has a secret involving Karen (not the fact that he was her first lover).

8. Tripp believes that one of the children was fathered by another man. (If this is Karen and she and Nick turn out to be brother and sister, that will be tres weird.)

various sources, including actor interviews, telvisionista, spoilerfix, and spoilerbuzz.

I would say it's (mostly derogatory) slang for any person who presents female, but has many masculine characteristics, and it's casual use is even further muddied given that many pre-op transsexuals work as drag queens.

I am sad there are no spoilers for Jeremy Darling, as he's played by Seth Gabel who I think is all kinds of awesome.

Technically not a TWOP spoiler, because it's been announced in mainstream casting news, his character will have an affair with his twin sister's "arch enemy," played by Tamara Feldman.

I think the details count as spoilers, though: Juliet and Tamara's character were once best friends, but had a falling out over a perfume issue. Jeremy starts an affair with her, but has to keep it secret from his sister for at least a few episodes. The secret will be uncovered when everybody shows up at a fundraiser for the Senator to be, possibly when Juliet either overhears or sees an interaction between Jeremy and Natalie Kimpton (Tamara's character).

Early rumours were that the blackmail plot involving the sex tape was about about Jeremy, but more reliable sources indicate it may be about Juliet (although that's really moving into Paris territory), and may be the impetus for the reported suicide attempt. But nothing really solid on those details that I've seen yet.



"Tranny" is used within the transgender/gay community all the time for transsexual, rather like the "N word" in the hip hop community. Candis Cayne uses it in her interview with TWOP, for example. No negative implication. But it's true that people outside using it would tend to use it in a derogatory way.

(Researching this is a bit like using google to try to figure out if anyone calls San Francisco "Frisco." The answer is sure, some people do, you'll find google references with it--but if you live in the community, you generally don't. So finding a couple of examples one way or the other doesn't really give you a feel for general practice.)

I have to strongly disagree with the "but has many masculine characteristics," though, at least within the GLBT community. (It is a fact that TPTB digitally altered Ms. Cayne's voice to sound lower, for example, in the DSM pilot, because they thought she showed no masculine characteristics and the plot wasn't quite working the way they wanted it to.)

To keep this on topic: Billy Baldwin, in one interview, said that there is a plot point a few episodes in that devolves on whether or not Carmelita (the character played by Candis Cayne) is pre or post op. That is, is it possible that Baldwin's character had sex with her without knowing of her former male state? (Post op, that's entirely possible--see the Lynn Conway site linked to upthread for medical details if interested.) Or did he have to know? And is this basically a woman with a secret in her past, or is this revealing something about a sexual preference that Baldwin's character may not have known he had? According to Baldwin, that's going to be the subject of a discussion between Nick and a third party in the family.

Here's the official description and promo photos for episode 1.05 "The Bridge" from ABC:



And 15 HQ promo photos. They don't really contain any spoilers although there is a boat and a guillotine. The episode airs October 24th.

AND

Here's the official description and promo photos for episode 1.06 "The Game" from ABC:



And 19 HQ promo photos. They don't really contain any spoilers. The episode airs October 31th.

Thank you, daisiepusher! Even the episode descriptions for this show are delicious. Those had me grinning like a loon in anticipation. I do love my dirty, sexy new show!

Official episode descriptions aren't spoilers. They can go in the Media thread.

Sounds like Juliet likes to mother strays.

And I'm sure it will be hilarious. Juliet and Brian Jr comedy gold.

The ep. descriptions have me tickled pink.

Spoilers (and HQ pics) from televisionista about 1.04, next week:

Jeez I love this show we learn about the affair in ep. 1 everyone was wondering which Darling was going to be Dutch's and we are already going to find out as early as ep 4 or 5. YAY. Instead of waiting 3 seasons and then having Nick fall off a ladder and having to get bone marrow. (You know something soapy).

Anybody seen any casting info for Dutch (or verification that Dutch will be back)?

I was just watching the anti-Dentite episode of Seinfeld, and I think again that Robert Wagner would be totally perfect as Old Dutch. (Sending hopeful Robert Wagner casting thought waves to Hollywood...)

Yes, it's verified that he'll be back in flashbacks leading up to his death. Last I heard they were still casting, though. (I agree that Wagner would be an inspired choice.)

The following is from E! Online's spoiler column, but be warned: there are spoilers for a lot of different shows you have to read through to get to it:

Here's the official description and promo photos for episode 1.07 "The Wedding" from ABC:



And 26 HQ promo photos. They don't really contain any spoilers, just Karen's wedding. The episode airs November 14th.

I'm looking forward to this storyline. Thanks for the pics!

Thanks for the pictures. The ones of Tripp with the twins are sweet. Considering. Not that I thought he would disown them, but still.

A few more spoilers, from various usually reliable sources, including Spoilerbuzz, Spoilerfix, et al...

Most people probably know already that Karen is going to start having trouble in her social circle because Freddy is NOK (Not Our Kind). Most have probably also guessed that she's going to start questioning whether she wants to go through with the wedding. The only thing that may be spoilerish is that there will be a big scene at the wedding itself, including, reportedly, a conversation with Tripp about marriage and love that could be heartbreaking.

In addition, Karen's getting a whole new arc. It turns out that her divorce to husband #3 isn't quite formalised. He's going to come back on the scene and Karen will find herself very attracted to him still. (Of course, Karen loves everybody.) There was also a rumour that he was going to at least flirt heavily with someone else, but I haven't seen a reliable source as to who, just guesses (Juliet? Daisy? Lisa?). Nick is given instructions by Tripp to get the divorce finalized quickly at the same time that Karen starts thinking maybe she doesn't want it done with, perhaps just to give her time to stall Freddy while she makes up her mind about him. (I'm thinking the arc with husband #3 will be completed before the wedding episode, 1.7, but I'm not absolutely sure from the reports.)

The planned shooting hiatus came after episode 5 (this week's The Bridge), so look for a few more changes in tone going forward. Everyone expected Brian to be a favourite, and he's delivered. Brian Jr. worked better than expected, so he's going to get a slightly bigger part than earlier--expect him to have a scene or two without his dad, probably one with Mei Ling. Also, his mother will return from Brazil, want to take him back, but discover that not only does Brian Jr want to stay with his dad--the Reverend discovers to his own surprise that he wants to keep him as well. Nick will be asked to negotiate, triggering his own mixed feelings because his mother left him.

Jeremy has been the surprise, since he's come off as much less flaky than originally planned. More will be done with his relationship with Tripp, for one thing. Here are some spoilers for Jeremy post 1.5:

a. Impending fatherhood causes him to want to get Tripp to take him more seriously. He will get a job working as a parking attendant in a garage owned by Tripp--screw it up, but charm the customers and get out of trouble.

b. One of the customers will be played by Sofia Vergara, who's coming in for a 3 episode arc to see if she works as a possible love interest for Jeremy. Which implies that, indeed, Natalie is playing him as far as their romance goes.

Other post 1.5-slight shifts...Simon Elder's personal rivalry with Tripp is being stepped up to give DS something more to do than fret about the kids and the affair. The big poker game in 1.6 will personalise the rivalry and let DS play cutthroat without being merely sinister. It will also set the outlines for a real estate war between Elder and Tripp which will set the stage for future specific battles. Both Elder and Tripp will ask Nick to do unethical things in their battle with each other.

Although the actress playing Juliet originally intended to keep working while she's in the outpatient program for "extreme eating disorders and cutting," that lasted about 2 days before it was mutually decided that she should take a break for at least one episode and probably two.

Thanks for that batch of spoilers!
I am really, really looking forward to this scene. I am curious as to how his views of marriage and love have changed. And just how much.
Yay! He is an adorable little boy and I am glad that means we get to see more of him. I am guessing it is found out that he is not Gustav but Brian's son. I hope so.
This image just makes me laugh. I can picture it. I am sure it will exceed my expectations too.
That's squeetastic. I cannot wait.
Yikes. I hope she just gets herself better. Thing is, she has been in all 4 episodes so far, so I hope her absence isn't too noticable. Though Patrick was hardly in the last episode and I didn't find myself missing him too much, so sure it will be fine.

Damn, I can't believe how much I'm bummed at the prospect of Juliet-less episodes. I'm glad they're writing more for Jeremy, but I'm not sure why they're surprised at how well he plays, given that they casted Seth Gabel, the kid has mad talent and boatloads of charm.

Ordinarily I'd be leery of all the behind the scenes tweaking going on, but I actually like that they went with a more earnest Nick, Krause has played one too many selfish pricks to the point where I'm bored of it with him already, and I like that they're going with more Jeremy, and beefing up Donald Sutherland's role, that might work out nicely in that scaling back Juliet gives them more time for the Tripp/Nick/Elder storyline.

Thanks for the updates and the advance photos, everyone.

So far I like where they’re going with everything, except maybe the Karen arc. I kind of want her to be more tied down so she’s less of a loose cannon around Nick and Lisa. Oh, and except for the missing Juliet – I enjoy her in the show. I’d rather the actress focus on getting healthy, though, so she can be a player during the show’s long run.

A couple of notes on the photos posted ( from the wedding episode and others)

• From what we can see of the wedding, Nick and Kiki are there, but I didn’t see any shots of Lisa…hmmm I wonder if she’s there.
• There one shot showing Elder talking with Nick in which Nick appears to be wearing a wire. Double hmmm. Maybe it confirms this:
  
  Both Elder and Tripp will ask Nick to do unethical things in their battle with each other.
  
  Or that Nick’s covering himself during his dealings with Elder.
  Then again, maybe it’s just a DSM production goof

Spoiler TV

So perhaps "Juliet on vacation" is how they're going to deal with Samaire Armstrong's absence during real life treatment.

More: Kristin reports in E!Online that Patrick's wife will tell him she wants the two of them to meet with Carmelita (yes, she knows all about her; no, he didn't know she did).

'I'm not about to let her stand between us and the White House. I did not marry a Darling for nothing.'

TV Guide is reporting that Peter Strauss has been cast to play Dutch in flashbacks.

I found some spoilers about those flashbacks.

LINK

Hmm, wonder who this is referring to?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21549557/

I read the script and unless they change the plot (they often make last-minute changes) Patrick will be the one who gets shot.
I believe it happens in episode 8.

I'm delighted with this news! I've always liked Peter Strauss and he's been missing from the TV landscape far too long.

I want spoilers.
The other show I am fanatic about (for totally unrelated reasons) is Heroes, which has 20 posts a day filled with spoilers (math is not my strong point so reality could be 2-100) and there just are not enough of us to passionately need to know here. DANG!!

Source 1

Source 2




Source

TV Guide reports that Gina Torres will be guest starring as Simon Elder's ex-wife. Woo!

there are some new promotional photos over at spoilertv

From Kristin

Heard an interview today with Zoe whatever who plays Lisa George. Don't care for her any more now than I did before (which wasn't very much). She let it slip that her character is hanging out alot with Jeremy right now. She didn't say anything further which made me think that she wasn't supposed to let that detail out so early.

Get away from wonderful Jeremy, Lisa!!! Yuck.

So, does this mean Jeremy is Dutch's and Lisa's trying to get to know her new brother-in-law? That would be ironic--Jeremy's been trying to act like he's not a Darling, only to find out that he's not one after all!

This apparently isn't the reason for their spending time together. According to Ask Ausiello:

Rumor that Samaire (Juliet) maybe leaving show. Includes spoilers up to episode 13.



ETA:

Pictures from Next Weeks Episode & Some More

I really hope that's a foiler because I so don't want Juliet/Samaire to leave. I really enjoy this character and think she has a lot of potential to develop.

If she does leave, I guess they'd just recast rather than write the role out all together.

She could just be leaving to get herself better. They could just write her out, and then when she's ready to come back write her back in.

I really hope that they don't axe the character altogether. I really enjoy Juliet and her dynamic with Jeremy. And since we are unlikely to get a second half of this season I would really hope that would be enough time for Samaire to do what she needs to. Unless this decision has to do with something else.

HI guys, new to this forum.......I was really hoping to get some spoilers today after watching last night (the nutcracker) epi. Seems to me that Tripp has every someone working together on some secret plan and i was especially wondering what is up with Jeremy - loves the girl or is hot for the wife, plan o' tripps?

Anyway - I'll see if there is anything good to gather outside TwoP and report it back if I find anything good!

Please do, and welcome Butterkup. This board seems very short on spoilers. I tend to avoid them for other shows, but we need something to keep us going over the break...

Don't have any spoilers just yet, but my 'source' told me there will not be any new episodes until January and probably later due to the strike. HOWEVER, 'source' has the next un-aired episode and said we can watch it soon so if anyone wants, I can provide a brief spoil after I see the un-aired episode. If you never hear from me again, it will be safe to assume the 'source' reads TWOP and this board, and has gone into hiding and takes back the invitation to tour the DSM set at Paramount Studios....lol

Ausiello offered some info (but not much) on what happened to Carmelita. Apparently, she's not dead, just abducted.

Scroll down about 3/4 on this page here.

Egads, that's a long time; I hope they're going to run repeats and run "It's a New Year; spend it with the Darlings!" sort of promos to reacquiant people with the show.

Ok, I've seen the next episode that will air probably late January, if not February. Pretty good episode although I wish there were more "stringing along" plot lines. Let me know if you would like a short synopsis of this episode. Happy New Year.