Now that BB has produced a season that flunks the first season test (if this were the first season of the show, would anyone want to see it picked up?), is it time to put it to rest? Has this show sunk so low that CBS would be better off replacing it with Temptation Island? Just how dysfunctional does it have to be, how many pledges to avoid watching does it need in order to expire and the plug pulled.

IOW, is there hope for the future of this show, or is this the season that puts a stake through its sad, wretched heart?

With its ratings being as high as they are this season, I wouldn't expect to see BB cancelled anytime soon. Though there are people out there that pledge to never watch another episode, have signed petitions, and have phoned sponsers, the only thing CBS cares about is the ratings. And as long as the audience is there the show will continue.

While I've been unhappy with the turn of events this season and most of the contestants, I'll continue to watch.

I'd be so bummed if the show were cancelled! Yeah, this years' cast is full of dull and/or despicable people, but I could have changed the channel.

I'm definitely still onboard.

Personally, I'd love to see another season, but I'm torn. I think Dick, Eric, and Daniele are some of the worst houseguests that the show has ever had, and it midly horrifies me that they have all made it to the final six. Plus, throw in the double standards with the producers favoring Dick and the ridiculous Jen situation (I love the girl, and feel really bad for her). All of that being said, a cancellation after this season would almost be appropriate in my mind, and even though I've been watching since the first season, I wouldn't be too upset.

All that would change, though, if Dick is held accountable for his actions and CBS is somehow made to pay for their behavior this season (maybe by Jen slapping a giant lawsuit on them and Dick, which would make me squeal with joy). Basically, I'd be willing to watch season 9 religiously if the trainwreck that is season 8 ends with:

1) Either Jessica or Jameka winning (which seems highly unlikely)
2) CBS and Dick getting what is rightly coming to them once this season wraps up.

Since the first season of Big Brother flunked that test, I'm guessing this show will go on forever.

Other than Will, I've never liked the winner, and I didn't like Will because he was a fine, upstanding great guy, I liked Will because he was just that damn good. Nobody will ever play the game better, period. End of story. (Heh). I know that there's no way in hell Zach, Jessica or Jameka can pull off the win so I'm guessing this seasons winner will be someone I despise and someone who's last name starts with D.
The producers have always had their favorites, this season is no different. I said way back when Dick was on the block the very first time that I had watched BB enough to know that there was no way in hell he was going home. Also, while I wasn't overly impressed with Erica last season I thought she fared far worse than Jen (whom I love!). CBS nor Boogie "got what was coming to them" so don't think for a minute it will happen with Dick either. Expect a finale full of Jen Sucks! clips and for Dick to insult her on live television like the producers had Alison do to Erica.

There seems to be something about the basic structure of this show that tends to produce unpleasant winners, compared to, say, Survivor or TAR. On BB, nice guys usually finish last. If I had a more analytical mind, perhaps I could figure out why.

Me, too. But I haven't. Do you suppose they're beaming subliminal messages that make us keep watching when we know better? I hope so, because then I can blame them rather than myself for having such an embarrassing habit.

I don't see BB going away any time soon. In fact, from what I can tell, it's becoming more and more popular.

I've already stopped watching the show when Jen left, I tunned in to see sequester footages of Jen and when I found out there would be none, I found other things to do during the time BB runs.

So far, I don't miss the show at all.

I think Maggie played as great a game as Will, just in a different way. As much as I hate her, I've got to give her props for being able to control half of the houseguests to the point that they'd make sacrifices for her.

I think Erika was treated really badly by the editors. Basically she was made out to be a mindless tramp. But even though Boogie played her like a 5 cent violin, she wasn't treated badly by him in person. He didn't make violent threats at her, nor did he assault her or taunt her. Her clothes were not vandalized.

Sadly, the audience seems to love becoming part of a huge collective bullying of Jen. I hate it, but the ratings seem to be up. So I expect the carnage to continue. And I guess I'll probably tune in to be outraged! However I have made a little mental note of sponsors. No one has withdrawn yet as far as I know, and I won't be patronizing any of their products from here on in.

It hasn't become more popular, but it is being hyped that way by CBS. It's still off in the ratings from seasons 3-6. I don't think the feeds are watched by many. CBS doesn't give us numbers on those, but if people really saw Dick's behavior for what it is, he would not be popular at all.

I can see it going on for another 2 seasons and then maybe finishing. I haven't enjoyed this season or the one before, but Survivor has had sucky seasons and still managed to deliver some great entertainment. I just hope next time they pick the correct people.

I'm used to reality tv that features awful, awful people. Heck, I've watched every iteration of Flava Flav and his collection of women-to-bring-shame-on-all-women. I've watched portions of seasons of Real [sic] World that were enough to make me turn off the tube.

But it just seems that even the most rancid show has drawn a line as far as assault, abuse and basically criminal behavior. I guess even after everything I've ever seen on tv, I'm a little shocked and bothered to see CBS take one step more toward lions vs. slaves in the coliseum.

I mean, promoting assholes is nothing new-- it's the lifeblood of television. But this season of BB feels something new to me, like CBS's protection and aggrandizement of Dick is something worse.

I have stopped watching, but it hasn't helped-- I feel as if I saw a woman being mugged on my front porch and the best I can do is go back inside and shut my door.

I stopped watching after the cigarette incident on BBAD, and tuned in only for Jen's eviction. I haven't watched since, and have kept up with the show via this board and the recaps. I do want to find out how this sordid saga ends, even if I don't want to actually watch it.

For me, the trouble was that the producers' encouragement of Dick's behavior, and the behavior itself, was making me extremely angry. I would fume about it for hours after I had seen or read about it. It wasn't a "fun" kind of anger, the sort one often feels about reality show contestants, but a distrubing feeling about even being a tacit participant in the whole thing.

I have watched the show from the beginning, and it's been pretty bad a lot of the time. I was bothered by the producers' failure to tell Monica about her family member's death in the Twin Towers, but decided to let it go. There have been many other contestants who I've hated, but it has usually been enjoyable to dislike them. That's the point, after all, to have entertaining villains.

If this were another type of show, one that didn't have live feeds and Showtime, I wouldn't know nearly as much as I do about Dick's behavior, and might be able to accept Dick. But I know too much, and can't accept it.

And this is the problem. Dick isn't just an aberration. He is the product of the current producing team. They not only knew what they were getting; they want it. And the edited version of Dick appears to be paying off for them in the ratings. And while there have been a few embarrassing stories, nobody really cares. The story has no media traction, and is unlikely to get it now.

I don't know if I want to get started on this show next year if Grodner remains in charge, because you know we are going to getting a steady diet of wannabe Dicks in addition to the usual collection of reality show freaks and famewhores. The show has, over the years, lost the balance that kept it grounded and entertaining. In recent years, it has relied on gimmicks, editing tricks, increasingly manipulative production tactics, and a decision to endorse the worst sort of behavior.

While I'm still "obsessed" with the show, or I wouldn't be reading and writing about it now on a message board, I don't miss watching the darn thing. The only way I watch again this year is if Jen can cast a deciding vote against a Donato - unless it's a vote for Eric.

Agree on the trouble with this-- beyond the immediate bad taste of Dick's behavior is the clear message to future contestants-- There are no lines that we don't want you to cross, and if you want to be a "star" it's no longer enough to simply be an obnoxious asshole-- we're looking for people who will do the sorts of things that would get them restraining orders and arrest on the outside. Be constantly verbally abusive. Make vicious violent threats. Punch someone. Sneak a weapon in. Don't just give the viewers cartoon verssions of dysfunctional behavior that they see in the world-- give them the kind of stuff that really pushes the envelope, that crosses lines that are held by laws. Show them things they can't see in the real world unless police are involved.

And then get the home crowd to cheer for it. I doubt that I will even watch episode one next season. It's going to be ugly as hell.

I don't think the producers would permit Dick to punch someone, although at this stage I'm not totally sure. And I certainly don't think people are going to be bringing weapons. One of the annoying things about Dick's "rebel rocker" pose is that it's just that, a pose. He is relentless in his verbal abuse, but outside of the drink-dumping and the burning cigarette, he is careful to stay just on this side of the producers' line in terms of actual physical violence. He's not a rebel. He's a teacher's pet, and the editing of him as some sort of rebel is just as phony as the editing of him as a caring father. The idiots on BB1 who threatened to walk out of the house were more rebellious.

The trouble I now have with the show is the obvious favoritism, and tolerance of unacceptable behavior from perceived "fan favorites." If Zach - for example - had done anything close to what Dick has done, he would have been gone. Future Dicks may find themselves kicked out for the same sort of behavior if they don't have a storyline the producers want to sell.

I was, in the end, uncomfortable with watching something that felt like what a lot of women in awful, abusive relationships go through every day. And I felt a powerful distate towards everyone else. They could have taken a stand against that sort of demeaning treatment. While I understand them not doing it at first, given that they were there to play a game, the fact that they didn't later made me feel comtempt for them.

I didn't really enjoying feeling that way, because it reminded me of all the self-righteous reality show contestants who huff and puff about people's morality. But the show turned into a morality play, with the producers acting as Dick's enablers and the other contestants standing aside and letting it happen.

I don't want to get on a high horse about this, because I understand why other people want to see how it all ends, and because distasteful behavior isn't exactly new on this show. But it stopped being fun for me. I honestly don't know if I will return to even sample next season unless major changes are made.

Seriously, as long as Les Moonves is the president of CBS and the Chenbot is married to him, BB is in no danger of being cancelled.

Nevertheless, I am out after 8 seasons of watching this craptastic show. The strong taint of producer interference this season has just totally taken all the fun out it for me.

I think the first season blew even worse than this one. Let's face it, this is the kind of show that was born on the other side of the shark cage. It's appeal is all base and prurient and guilty. In some ways I think it's a distillation of the competitive reality format in its purest form. An elimination show nt based on any kind of skill or talent or even personal appeal, but purely on high school level cliques and social pecking orders, eventually giving way to lying, betrayal and treachery as the established social divisions collapse on themselves. It's like a controlled Lord of Flies experiement. That's competitve reality television at its most naked.

Usually there is some comfort in knowing that the cool kids always have to eat each other in the end, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. That's really when the show is fun to watch. Unfortuantely, we also know that the show is not meritocratic or fair. There's no guarantee that the "good people" will win. If we didn't learn that with the Friendship, we should have learned it with Boogie.

I guess there is a difference this year with at least the appearance of interference from production. I can see why people might be able to live with the knowledge that the worst scumbags might win on occasion, but it becomes rather more intolerable if production is actually helping the scumbags win.

Personally, I think the AP twist is more to blame for helping the D's than production is. The AP vote kept Dick in the game when he should have been a goner against Dustin. Without that vote, both D's would probably be gone now.

Conceptually, I can see where the frustration of consecutive seasons of worms like Maggie and Boogie winning the show would make the twist of giving the audience a secret hand in things seem very appealing (imagine if we could have made Will evict Boogie or Ivette evict Maggie), but the whole thing has backfired because the vote is coming in for the wrong people. How much that has to do with the sanitized and deceptive edits CBS has been giving to Dick, I don't know. It may just be that the D supported have figured out a way to tamper with the vote. Either way, I think it was a well-intentioned idea that just didn't work.

Not that they could do it again anyway. If there's another season, everybody in the house will suspect every other player of being AP. No one could be sly enough to pull it off except for Will (who would probably tell everyone h was AP on the first day and they'd refuse to believe him), and I doubt he's going to do any more seasons.

<He is relentless in his verbal abuse, but outside of the drink-dumping and the burning cigarette, he is careful to stay just on this side of the producers' line in terms of actual physical violence>

I think if cigarette burns are this side of the line, then the line has been shifted ever so slightly, which is what I find disturbing. Next season will the producers say, "Well, he only punched her once, and not toooo hard."

It sends a clear message to future contestants-- abuse and some actual violence toward other players will not only be tolerated, but can help you win, so go for it.

I've stopped watching the show, canceled the feeds (with complaint), and only know what's happening by reading the recaps here. However, I would be happy to watch again if they would simply cast more interesting people and give them more interesting things to do. It doesn't have to be this boring and pathetic....the producers are simply incredibly uncreative and have resorted to recruiting violent, mentally unstable people in the hopes that that alone will draw our attention. Sorry, but that just works for Jerry Springer.

They could increase the prize money for a start, which would hopefully draw a wider selection of applicants. They could stop recruiting directly from LA bars. They could get rid of the slop angle (which serves no purpose other than to make half of the HGs despondent and tired for a week) and have more luxury competitions. They could give the HGs stuff to do in their spare time that would actually be worth watching-- art supplies, jump ropes, sidewalk chalk, another pet (tarantulas don't count)-- so that it doesn't turn into endless beer pong and bitching.

It could be a show I'd watch again. But honestly, I don't have high hopes that it will be.

Excellent post, Vajram.I have to agree with almost everything you said, including your thoughts on AP, which I agree probably seemed like a good idea at the outset. I also agree we'll never see it again.

I like your point that it's not like this show started on a high level and has headed straight downhill ever since. It's been what it is since day one, like it or leave it. Some seasons are better than others, but none are exactly Shakespeare, or even Survivor. I think a lot of us have hated the mysogynistic trend of the last two seasons, and I can totally understand (and even admire) people who refuse to watch. Still, even if this aspect is eliminated, we still won't be dealing with entertainment at its finest. I think the main reason a lot of people watch at all is that it's on in the summer, and people think, like me, "Well, it's better than nothing." (We may be wrong there.)

Adding to the Vajram praise of post - ITA. I also agree wholeheartedly with Cometmonkey and think that more activities, luxury and no slop could help things.

BTW, My new favorite phrase is "born on the other side of the shark cage." I'm going to go find other places to use it....

Every year, people cancel the feeds and protest. I haven't seen any signs CBS cares.

This is the first year I don't care at all since Season 4. So if you had asked me at the time, I would have said it jumped the shark after Season 4. But we got 3 more seasons I enjoyed after Season 4.

So I'll wait and see what happens.

This is the first season that's so obviously rigged. It's the only one I stopped watching completely.

I don't believe this season is rigged at all. The DR asks leading questions, but they don't force the HGs to vote the way they want. Example: Jen. If Dustin is stupid enough to keep Eric in the house, that's Dustin's fault.

They cut Jen's screen time down to nothing when she became more popular than Dick. They've made the show all-Dick all the time, and used the AP to reinforce that.

I also agree with the praise of Vajram's post.

A few thoughts, and then I'll leave it alone:

-- Season One was awful, in terms of sheer tedium and a plan that went awry. The whole show was revamped afterward. That was the only other season that involved viewer voting. They should have learned.

-- The "born on the other side of the shark tank" line is both funny and true. Even the seasons people seem to remember fondest, such as Season Two, had the dreadful refusal of the producers to let Monica know about her cousin after the Sept. 11 attacks.

-- The show crossed the line, for me, not because I didn't like the winners. And while the appearance of producer interference bothers me, that accusation has also been made before. This ain't a fair show and really, the fun seasons have been about the moments along the way - not the final winner.

-- I usually am unnatrually loyal to shows I watch, and will stick with them even after they have gotten hopelessly bad. But I couldn't stick with this season. It wasn't producer interference, although it's been worse this year because of AP. It was the relentless misogyny, its endorsement by the producers, and acceptance by the players. Boogie was a distateful jerk, and the producers made things a lot worse by portraying Erika as a slut in the finale, but there just isn't anything that approaches Dick's treatment of Jen - and the others studiously ignoring it or gleefully joining in - for weeks on end. The producers could have told the guy to cut it out a long time ago, and he would have, because he's a good little poser and will do what his masters want, but they didn't. They never kicked Dick out, encouraged his behavior, and then denied and twisted the truth of what was happening so that Jen looked like the crazy one.

One of the important things about a guilty pleasure is that's fun, even if you don't want to admit you watch the show to your friends. But this stopped being fun, and started making me sad or angry. That's when I knew it was time to stop watching.

I don't know. Smart players could use the suspicions to advantage, and since everyone would suspect everyone--it could get interesting in a different way. Also, they could have a few "players" and people might assume there is only one. They could set up competing tasks, for example, Alpha would be told to get Beta nominated, while Mutt would be told to get Jerry nominated, and at the same time, Popeye would be told to get Donald Duck evicted.

We did a "group" thing once, where participants were all given conflicting tasks. It went on for 7 hours, and while we knew we had a task, we didn't know what the others had been told, if anything. Meanwhile, the entire group was given 4 tasks to complete (design a flag, uniforms, choose a leader, whatever.) It became quite a tense situation. Why? As it turned out, one person was told something like, "under no circumstances let the flag be green," another, "make sure you have a green flag," or "disrupt every meeting, make sure no decisions are reached," or "support all the male opinions expressed" etc. I was given no instructions about the tasks, just told, "Get yourself elected leader."

Big Brother could do something similar, and it might work well. Having BB give the contestants individual tasks, with the chance of picking up another $5000 periodically, could shake things up a bit. If this were done well--it could be a cool twist.

America could vote on what the player would do, without knowing which player would be chosen. The top two vote getters could be given to TWO different players each week. Conflicting goals would be best, but either way--more would be happening in the house.

No. If I'm going to watch this show next season, I need to see all twists that allow production to manipulate the game in the favor of specific houseguests removed. I don't really care who wins or how horribly the houseguests humiliate themselves and each other (to an extent, of course, DICK!). It's when the game is heavily influenced by favoritism from viewers, production, and viewers being manipulated by production's editing that I become irritated enough to stop watching. I know it's not supposed to be completely fair, but at least allow the game to unfold on its own, and if BB is going to screw with the hamsters then screw with them all equally. I also know there will always be some level of manipulation involved in making locked up crazy people into compelling television, but it's obvious that BB production isn't capable of pulling it off without us noticing. So quit it.

That's ironic considering the PSAs on CBS have the motto "CBS Cares". They should change it to "CBS, eh, waddaya gonna do?"

I agree that the current producers would not impliment this, which is too bad, because I do think it would be a good twist, if not used to show favoritism by the producers to one or two HGs.

However, I would prefer that all the contestants rotate in the role of America's Player, if they are going to keep the concept.

Some wouldn't risk their game to get the extra $5000 or $10,000 bucks, but some would.

To make this more fair, they could easily also have voter's choose which player(s) would be up each week before announcing the task and allowing the vote. You could only choose from remaining players, then start the rotation again, so everyone got the chance.

Frankly, I would rather watch that than endless beer pong or cooking.

There are ways they could help reassure people about game manipulation, for example, have a group of tasks, and have each on a bingo ball. First the viewers vote on which player is to have a turn. Then the pre-season loaded tasks would be spun and Julie would choose the random task. Then the viewers could vote on the "target" player involved, if any. Same deal there, once one player has been the target, only remaining players are available for vote. Faces, faded to black and white, so people could see who is left, then start over will all of them after the task is done.

I think it could work, and could be done fairly, if they wanted to, and they could keep the "you get to vote" factor.

As far as votes for eviction? I don't know if they would need that if they did something similar to the above. That's the part I don't really like, but making it an option, "here is the name (again, random draw from Julie's bingo machine or whatever) and if you cast your vote this way, you get $X amount of money, but you don't have to." The amount of money should increase as the game gets tighter and more risky.

Would people betray "alliances" for $1000? $2000? $10,000? At which stage of the "game?"

The "bingo" system would keep producer interference in the outcome minimal. Since people in real life have agendas too, I think this kind of thing would reflect the spirit of the premise.

I agree, liqidclark. If BB wants to influence a game to such an obvious extent, they should just make it a whole new show and call it Rat Runners. That would be more honest.

Interesting..that was just the idea we were talking about the Shark thread here. I think it would be easy to keep "America" involved, as well as limit the producer interference in the outcome.

Actually, with the arbitrary rule changes we've seen this season, I'd say CBS might as well buy the rights to the "Paradise Hotel" name. This season felt like it'd fit on Fox more than CBS.

For me it's not the unlikable winners souring me on Big Brother. It's a change of perspective for me. Big Brother always had ugly people but I used to enjoy cheering against them and I usually felt the show felt same way (I got a love to hate feeling for the Friendship that Richard Donato never inspired). Maybe it's because I'm paying more attention but I feel like the editing is more heavy-handed instead of letting me make my own judgments about the HGs.

As for what matters to CBS, there's one thing that matters more than ratings -- revenue. Usually, the ratings are the key factor in determining how much revenue a show brings in but if viewers scare sponsors out of buying ads on Big Brother, then they have to charge less than they would for a show that brings in similar numbers. So those angry calls to sponsors can have an effect.

Then again, if you're complaining to CBS, what'd really hurt them is if you tell them watching this season has given you a negative impression of the new shows they're advertising. Summer programming is partly about getting eyeballs to see promos for the new fall shows and if the unpleasantness of Big Brother has soured you on Cane, Viva Laughlin or The Big Bang, that's probably a worse thing to tell the network than you won't tune into Big Brother if it returns in July 2009.

I don't agree that the show has jumped the shark. It's still getting great ratings, and as much as I hate America's Tool, the concept was interesting to an extent. Too bad they chose such a poor person to execute that concept. This year's concept was definitely a lot better than the Ex Factor or the Secret Pairs.

Some of the people in this season sucked more than others in other seasons, but I think the show itself is as entertaining as ever. Besides the horrific first season, the other seasons I completely lost interest in were Seasons 5 and 6. I think this season has been captivating.

I remember that they did tell her. I remember them calling her into the diary room, telling her that there was an attack on New York City, and that her cousin was missing. Then they called Will and Nicole in with her and told them about the attack as well. I don't think they told them immediately, but they were probably trying to figure out what was going on, if the show would continue, and at that point in time I remember that there was still hope that the missing people would turn up as John or Jane Does in hospitals, so maybe they were hoping her cousin would turn up and there would be no reason to alarm her right away until a few days had passed.

Although I doubt it will ever get that far, it does seem like that's the direction they're going for. Which is kind of a shame, because that's just crappy wwf wrestling. I don't watch that, so if this keeps up, I won't be watching next season. Wrestling also seems to have that veneer of fakeness that this season has developed as well, although the hamsters don't get the script.

I don't want the show do go away, I just want a season that I want to finish watching. I think that the producers learned the wrong lesson from S6. I was glued to the TV every Thursday in the hope that the Nerd Herd would lose, and the producers have been trying to up the conflict via casting every since then.

The show works perfectly on its own, it doesn't need a bunch of psychotic people to make it better. I can't imagine that things will change for S9, and while I'll be there to watch in the beginning like I always am I doubt that I'll be able to stick with it. Unfortunately, people will still watch.

Since the season two was the last time I watched the show, I have a question for those long term viewers about this season's cast. Many cast members (Kail, Dick, Daniele, Eric, Jameka, and I think Joe) have mentioned trying to get on this show in the past. Some, like Kail and Dick even made to the finals before being cast this year. So my question is: is this normal? Or this ultra unlikeable cast a result of retreading old applicants that didn't make the cuts in previous years? I know Jen, Carol, and Dustin didn't even apply but were recruited (or that's what they said)

I think calling the show Big Brother and manipulating the game to their own desired outcome is completely acceptable. The whole point of Big Brother (the concept, not the show) is that everyone is being watched for the express purpose of allowing Big Brother to manipulate events and people in the way they see fit (Big Brother just being a front for TPTB).

This is my first season watching, so maybe I'm not as invested in this show as much as others, but I think it's completely acceptable for the producers/TPTB to do whatever they want to get the ratings they're after. This whole "integrity" issue I think is quite a funny one--one that the producers perpetuate with the Jen stuff. It's a show first and a game second. And it's a game that's only purpose is to produce ratings for the show. Whether people think it is "fair" surely doesn't matter to the producers. I can also see the argument that it is marketed as a game with rules and therefore it should be fair, but in the end it's just a show with which CBS wants to get good ratings and during which it wants be able to sell advertising time.

The producers ("Big Brother") are obviously after ratings and that is their prerogative. But it's my prerogative to watch a competition labeled as "reality" where what occurs is truly the natural choices and reactions of the people in the house. If I wanted something scripted ans contrived, there are other genres or venues for that type of programming. The producers may be after certain ratings, but I am after a certain quality.

The show has never been manipulated in such ways before. After watching every single season of this show, following/subscribing to feeds, following Big Brother in the media, etc., I can honestly say the productions efforts to thwart the events in the house have never been so aggressive and so blatant. I think the show has become predictable and boring and place blame squarely on production interference. The cast itself was promising. The premise of the game works. The producers ended up creating a situation where the people they want to stay stayed and the people they wanted gone left and there is an unbalance in the house and it sucks.

The contestants that the producers and the fans want to win these shows never do. That's why I love them. Anything can happen. And there is a genuine struggle -- the fan favorite is vulnerable and that's part of the excitement. This year, I knew exactly what was going to happen every single from week four and on. And it was around that time I knew the Donatos were it in for the long haul. Every other season, my predictions have been totally wrong.

Arnold Shapiro used to come on House Calls and take viewer calls directly and answer question. Grodner won't even do an interview with the Associated Press. Shapiro used to talk about how important it was to him to not interfere with the game because of his background in documentaries. Makes me wonder what Grodner's background in in? Jerry Springer-esque talk show? WWF-esuqe professional wrestling?

I don't want the show canceled, but I'm not watching it anymore if it will be run the way this season's was. Game tampering aside, I'm really disgusted at the way they allowed Dick's behavior and even went so far as to apply a double standard where Dick could destroy and hide people's thing but when others did the same things back, they were yelled at. The favoritism was really bizarre and totally unprecedented.

The name of the show doesn't mean much. Survivor isn't really about surviving, the winner of The Apprentice doesn't become anyone's apprentice, the Average Joes were mostly a bunch of freaks, and Big Brother isn't about Orwellian centralized control. If the purpose of the show were to see if a group of people could be manipulated by production to a certain end, they'd show us the manipulation. They'd put a live feed in the diary room so we could see how they were screwing with the hamsters, and the announcer would say things like, "Will the idiots be stupid enough to evict Dustin this week and keep the Dick-Dani power alliance in the house? Stay tuned!" (I'd watch that show, by the way.)

Instead, they keep all that under wraps as much as possible, not even letting the players talk about diary room sessions or producer interactions. They present it very much as a fair game with competitions, strategy, and prizes, like any other game. The worst thing is: for all the manipulation they've done or been accused of, they've ended up with a pretty dull group of people. They've managed to keep the pair with the biggest drama in the house, but all the other interesting people have fallen away in the process. We're left with Dick and Daniele and a bunch of people doing whatever Dick says. I don't know how the ratings are -- I've seen people claim they're better than ever, and that they're down -- but the show as it exists right now doesn't seem very sustainable. They're having to do major editing just to make their favorites palatable to the viewers.

I don't think the show needs to be canceled, any more than the World Series should be canceled because the last couple were blowouts. Just cast some people who have interesting attributes and things to talk about beyond their dramatic "hooks," poke them with sticks once in a while to keep them stirred up, and let us watch.

I liked Season 5 and LOVED Season 6. This season has bored me to tears.

The only explanation for the change this season is the switch in the person in charge of the show. Allison Grodner has been involved for years, but Arnold Shapiro ran things.

I think Grodner concluded, early on, that she had a good thing with Dick and was worried that viewers would tune out in droves if he was voted or kicked out. This is her first season as executive producer, and my guess is that she wanted to prove her mettle and improve the ratings. She has managed to do the latter.

I do wonder if Grodner's decision to hide out from the mainstream media, and the complaints about the show, will hurt her in the end. The ratings are up from last season, but it's not as if the show has suddenly become a runaway hit. It was always a bit of a bastard child, but now it's such a touchy subject that its producer won't agree to an interview with the Associated Press.

That's my primary hope. CBS has been making money on this show for years and its host is well-connected within the network. The show can survive without blatant favoritism and abhorrent misogyny that has turned the season into a joyless death march. I understand the maxim that all publicity is good publicity, but that's not necessarily the case with broadcast television networks.

I'm not proud about it, but I like this show, even during dull seasons or when I'm unhappy with the winner - which is most of the time. I just really hate this season and couldn't watch it anymore. I want to come back. CBS just needs to give me a reason.

The casting this year appears careless. In past years the oldest HG's weren't one dimensional like Dick.George, Kent, Gerry and Jack had different facets to their character and could be everything from nice guys to total jerks and back again.
Aside from Dick, who to me is just a lowlife and judging by the clientele of the bar he manages is right at home there, the other HG's:
Daniele:Typical whiny, immature brat but is not as dumb as she appears.

Jameka:It would have been interesting to see how she adjusted to her introductory statement about being in a house with all those white people. Being in the minority's a tough thing to get used to, especially if you're forced to do it. Instead she comes across as a religious nut. I'm sure there's a lot more to her than the editing allows.

Jessica:A vapid pseudo blonde who has the judgement skills of a pea.

Mike & Nick:boring. Nothing there.

Kail:Very pretty but no clue how to play the game.

Amber:A complete waste of methed out protoplasm.

Joe:A vindictave waste of time

Dustin: No sense of fun and just plain irritating.

Zach:A St.Bernard in a glass factory.

Eric:One of the most replusive people in or out of reality TV.

Carol:A beauty that may have been entertaining. We'll never know.

Jen:Got off on the wrong foot but did not deserve her horrible treatment. Without that she could have been the most fun this season.

If I missed anyone it's because they left that kind of impression.

Even though the ratings are doing great, I wouldn't be surprised if some sponsors are not very happy. Many sponsors got complaints and without sponsors, ratings don't really mean much.

I'd think that the show's bad relationship with the Associate Press will somewhat influence sponsors, along with the complaints that they got from the viewers.

Either way, even with high ratings and good sponsors, Grodner will never be respected. She has burned too many bridges.

A few devil's advocate remarks, just to keep myself honest:

-- The ratings are up, not by a lot, but not by an insignificant amount for a show in its eighth season. We can debate the whys all we like (anti-All Star bias, too much inside baseball, too much Boogie?) but we dissenters are up against a powerful counter-argument. We may not like what's happened this season, or the way the producers have done things, but it appears to have worked.

-- Dick was, for a time, a compelling character. I thought he was an ass, but also thought his aggressive, bullying style worked well against someone as easily rattled as Kail. It was his relentless and misogynistic bullying of Jen, over a period of time, that made me hate him, the producers for endorsing his conduct, and the other players for looking the other way when they weren't bashing her themselves. Still, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that the edited version of Dick, and the story of his relationship with Daniele, is a significant reason for the ratings bump.

-- The AP twist backfired badly, because it gave Dick another ally he didn't know he had. But I didn't know, in advance, that it would turn out that way. I didn't like it at first primarily because I am tired of all the gimmicks, and eventually because I couldn't stand Eric and because it appeared that the producers were using him to keep the Donatos in the game. I don't tend to like the twists, but has this really been worse than the cringeworthy tale of Cowboy and Nakomis, half-siblings who met in the house and discovered they didn't like each other at all?

-- People jump on the negative media articles, but really, there haven't been many. Kid Nation has gotten a lot more attention. Justin got a lot more attention for holding a knife to Krista's throat six years ago. Jen went quietly, making only a mild stink on her way out. The sequester house blackout and the flap about Amber's comments will all be forgotten soon.

-- One of the things this season has made me wonder about is the other reality shows I watch that don't have real-time feeds and Showtime live episodes. What happens on those shows that we never see? What sort of manipulation do the producers utilize to keep "characters" whose stories they want to tell? The main reason we have complained is because we know behind-the-scenes details that we never would see on Survivor or even The Amazing Race.

-- I sometimes feel like I am shocked, shocked that there's gambling going on in Casablanca. It seems worse this year, in terms of the favoritism and the hideous conduct that's been accepted, but as noted above, there has always been a distasteful element to the Big Brother. This is a show that's had Mike Boogie on twice, the second time as its All-Star champion, probably because Will insisted on his presence as a condition for coming back. I guess if you watch a show like this long enough, you will eventually find something that drives you away. I found it this year. But when I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that I will probably give it another try next season - even if Grodner stays.

After seeing Dick dump tea on Jen -- which I think in America constitutes, you know, assault -- then not get thrown out was my final straw. Haven't seen it since. It's funny; I think it was a Tuesday a few weeks back when, while watching the news, I totally forgot that the show was on. And I was proud of myself because I realized I did not a give a shit.

I think I'll watch next year, but I'm wary. I speculated on the Speculation thread that I would grow to hate every single one of these Hamsters (mission accomplished) but that this season could not be as worse as BB: AS ... oops. IMO there are enough smart people here that believe there has been unprecedented manipulation and rigging on the part of Alison Grodner's people that leads me to believe this season has been contrived past the point of "reality show." I just wish some intrepid reality show blogger would raise more of a dust-up over this.

This show, however, won't go away, if only because it makes too much damn money for them. Doesn't matter if what we see is not the result of the free will and actions of the people playing this game, it'll roll on and on. And it's sad, because it looks like Grodner rivals J.D. Roth as the worst producer of reality shows working today.

I really disagree. I do not think that the ratings of this show have ever depended on one person. Dick is certainly a lot less popular than Janelle and Kaysar were in their seasons, yet this season's ratings are higher. I also don't recall a popular houseguest ever being evicted and the ratings suddenly dropping. (Maybe someone has some numbers on that.) I think when it comes to compelling houseguests, it's a group dynamic. e.g. I seriously doubt there would be Janelle: Star of BB6 if it weren't for the Nerd Herd. It's a struggle between some likable people and not love-to-hate people and it's the drama and the comedy they create. But that will only affect how truly entertained viewers are, not if they are turning on their TV sets every Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.

No, I think the reason this season is more successful ratings-wise is because of marketing, plain and simple. I don't think the editors have done anything better this year than in previous years -- it was more of the same stuff, basically. The competitions this year were more of the same kinds of things (though, in my opinion, super-boring compared to past years). I think the cast was pretty decent, but it's arguable whether they ranked as one of the best or the worst. And they have the same casting director as they've had since BB2. The only thing different about this season was the avenues in which BB could reach its audience.

ShoToo. Brand new this season, a new avenue to reach an audience. I don't know what the ratings for this are, but it seems like it's been a success based on reading that a lot of people actually do watch it. It's helping the show on a smaller scale but the same way YouTube is...

YouTube. I think this is a huge reason more people are becoming invested with the show. During BB5, YouTube didn't even exist. And, on average, people's computers couldn't record and store massive archives of video the way they can now. During BB6, people started recording the feeds more but still weren't using YouTube for Big Brother media as much. During BB7, most of what happened in the house appeared on YouTube. This season, every single fucking thing is on there. People who were just watching the show are finding these live feeds and becoming more invested in what's happening, and they don't need to subscribe to the feeds.

In fact, let me extrapolate that to just: The internet in general. Television ratings are going down. That is just a simple fact. People are spending the time they used to spend on TV on the internet. Big Brother has a massive online component to the show. It's always happening so people can always hop online and watch the feeds or read the updates or chat with fans or check out polls, etc. I think someone in another thread said the Big Brother page on CBS.com wipes other TV show pages out of the water in hits. That's not surprising to me. It's almost as if you have to be online to get the full extent of what the show has to offer. Other TV shows don't offer that. And yes, I think this season has definitely gotten more media coverage, but most of it is online coverage. And most of it was driven by stuff posted on YouTube.

Do I think you need a good cast? Yes. Do I think you need good editors? Yes. Do I think you need good competitions? Yes. But Big Brother had all that before. What it didn't have before was such a huge chunk of it's viewers following up online because America didn't used to have such a huge chunk of its population spending time online. The internet is the next media frontier and Big Brother happened to fit in perfectly.

I think it's timing and marketing. This could have been season two or three or four -- whatever. Timing and marketing.

And when I complain about this season sucking because it's been predictable and dull and appalling and offensive, etc. I don't care if the ratings are good. This season can still be predictable, dull, appalling, offensive etc. and have good ratings. I don't think those things caused the ratings to be what they are. To me, the ratings and the quality of show are pretty exclusive in this case. I think the production agendas and manipulation suck, I think the encouragement of misogyny and abuse is disgusting, and I think the competitions have been lame -- but I also think marketing and online presence have expanded the show's audience. Grodner can suck all kinds of ass and the show can still be popular.

Um, Pro? I think I kind of love you. In a non-Eric kind of way.

Hey, don't dis J.D. Roth, he rocked...

AS THE HOST OF GAMEPRO TV! ahahahahahaha


anyway... I came to the conclusion earlier this season that Big Brother took their little psychological test... weeded out the craziest, most unstable, most controversial, and most boring people they could find... and then put them on the show.

Kail was the most normal one of the bunch, and I honestly thought she was beginning to wonder if this wasn't really the return of the Joe Schmo Show. Hell, even some of the houseguests seemed to have been ripped directly from the two seasons of Joe Schmo:

Amber / Eleanor- The weeper.
Dick / Hutch- The a-hole.
Jameka / Molly- The Christian (Molly was billed as "The Virgin" but she was portrayed as a devout Christian)
Dustin and Joe / Kip (the Gay guy(s))
Carol / Ashleigh- The rich girl (Carol is the daughter of a Senator, I have no doubt that if she had stayed, she'd have played this role)
Jessica and Zach / Cammy- The Moron
Nick / Gerald- The "Gotta Be Gay" guy
Eric / Nikki- The Schemer (Just like Nikki on Joe Schmo, Eric wasn't any good at scheming)
Mike / Brian- The Buddy (Stuck with Kail to the end... had to be his gimmick)
Jen / Bryce- The Stalker. We all loved Jen towards the end, but let's not forget she was a total psychopath the first few weeks.

I can't figure one out for Danielle, but with all the smarmy whining, I would hope she's not a real person and is in fact a scripted character.

Add all that to the insane contests like being sprayed by butter and wearing a bunny suit, and yeah, the similarities are like right there. (Joe Schmo's Bangers and Mash contest comes to mind)

In short, Bring back Joe Schmo. :(

Which raises an interesting question: Did the producers give Dick such a great edit because they wanted to keep their estranged family pair in the game to the end, or because they figured that if they showed the reality of Dick, half the casual viewers would change the channel in disgust? I think it might have been both. Maybe they realized early on that they could either kick Dick out or whitewash him, but there was no way they could show him in all his glory. As some have said, his worst moments wouldn't be TV-safe without one long bleep, and maybe not even then. He was part of their biggest twist, so they kept him, and it all went downhill from there. But if the ratings are good, I'd say it's because they've pulled off a masterful editing job by making the TV versions of these people at least palatable.