Because she needed a thread...

And I couldn't think of anything better. Will she be a dream? Or a dud? Will her Cheetah Girl status keep her in the game whether she can dance or not?

Very possibly. Look how long Billy Ray Cyrus lasted, and she's a lot younger and prettier.

Then again, she is already more of a dancer than BRC ever was and seems to be more into dancing than Monique out of the gate. She might not have done ballroom before, but since she considers herself a dancer and is a performer, I think she might just be the best Disney representative yet.

But how many people were keeping BRC on because of Hannah Montana, and how many people were keeping him on because of his Achy Breaky Heart days? The two "fandoms" (put in quotes because...well, I was just a little kid back then, but wasn't Achy Breaky Heart widely mocked when it came out?) combined probably served to propel Cyrus as far along as he got. Depending on what the demographics are, the latter could have served as a bigger asset. Kind of how Mel B.'s Scary Spice days will probably help her as well.

That said, the Cheetah Girl fandom might be a bit more devoted, I think. I watched the tango scene she has in the second Cheetah Girls movie, and she seems like she can definitely dance. But I know next to nothing about dancing, so my opinion doesn't mean much.

I hazard to think much more of BRC's "success" was due to Hannah Montana. It's the biggest thing in tween entertainment next to High School Musical. There were a lot of people saying around the net that their kids wanted to call in and vote for him (and often tried to stop him). His Achy Breaky mullett days were too long ago.

Besides, Monique was not even one of the main stars of High School Musical and she made it until fourth. The majority hadn't even had heard of her before the show.

By comparison as much as Raven is often considered the main lead of the Cheetah Girls movie franchise, Sabrina is actually one of the main stars.

I am probably more familiar with Hannah Montana than I should be (being 23 years old and way past Disney's intended demographic), but I figured that since BRC wasn't one of the "cute teen members" of the cast (e.g. Miley Cyrus, Emily Osment, Mitchel Musso, etc.), that the Disney Phenomenon wouldn't have as much of an effect on him. But I guess your comment about kids wanting to vote for him blows that theory out of the water. :P

ETA: I hope she does do well. Never got into the Cheetah Girls hype, mainly because of the insufferable Raven. But she seems likable enough from what I've seen. (I remember seeing a video interview of her at the Disney Channel Games where she unabashedly says that she thinks Brandon Baker -- another Disney Channel Games competitor, he was in the Johnny Tsunami movies -- is "soooo hot." She came across as a bit flighty and very girly, but it was funny to see.)

As I do every season it seems, I will start the bitching and moaning about the "ringer." Sorry. She is probably a nice girl, I don't even know which one she is because I only kind of watched The Cheetah Girls go to Barcelona movie and didn't really pay attention but the amount of dancing everybody seemed to be doing again spoils the idea of an amateur dance competition for me. I grant you I will probably feel the same about a Spice Girl but I never watched them to see and am just assuming they danced too. Cheetahs I know dance.

That being said I will try not to be too bitter or mean about her unless she's got a nasty personality on top of a ringer status since she is probably young.

I see your point. But Jane Seymour was a professional ballerina (Kirov Ballet!) And so many others in entertainment and such have had dance training.

DWTS is such an inherently and OUTRAGEOUSLY unfair/unequal competition. A 24 year old athlete (Apolo) is a reasonable competitor against a 60+ year old actor (J Rat) in any remotely-physical undertaking? In what universe is that fair? And Apolo wasn't even considered a "ringer." Seems like ringer works against people sometimes anyway, like Mario and maybe Stacy.

Oh and is it fair that females do over 90% of the voting and tend to vote for "cuties" or their fan-faves while better dancers whose only crime is being female and not having a big enough "fangurl" fanbase get voted off (Paulina, Shandi, Rachel Hunter...)? Women seem to be at an incredible disadvantage -- I've heard the viewers of this show tend to be overwhelming female or gay -- so who is there to vote for a supermodel or a Miss America, even if their dancing was the best ever?

It's just a mocked-up popularity contest, where tweeners only watching for their pop idol, the elderly (the average age of the dwts audience was 54 I heard!), and I suppose gay men make up a disproportionately high share of the audience. Nothing wrong with that -- but it's sure not a "fair assessment" of dancing talent, and I doubt if very many of the voters are voting on the actual dancing ability anyway.

Since there's not one fair thing about all this, the "ringer" problem becomes insignificant to me. Kelly Monaco, Emmett Smith, and Apolo Ohno had no dance background and weren't ringers - in the way people usually mean it - but Apolo was cute/sexy (though I do think he was the best dancer but maybe I'm blinded by the "cute"?), Kelly had soap fans rotovoting, Emmett played for American's most popular sport (but I don't really get that -- why are older women, tweeners and gays voting for a football player -- so maybe that theory is worthless -- what, are there millions upon millions of beer-gutted macho football-loving Homer Simpson types grabbing every cell phone in the neighborhood to call in ??)

Well, I'm rambling and need to shut it -- this aimless tirade has led me back around to the idea that the most winning personality wins -- I think Kelly was cute the way she came back from such horrible criticism; Emmett was cuter (meaning more lovable and humble) than Mario; Drew than Stacy; and Apolo was cuter than anybody ever has been. So that's how you win - be cute (and try hard and be self-deprecating or at least moderately humble.) I think Helio may be the "ringer" if I'm anywhere close to right.

Will this sexism and stupidity ever end? Women are jealous cows who would never consider voting for another women -- Maks and Tony said so!

What exactly is it that would prevent a woman from voting for a supermodel or Miss America?

I don't care if I get banned for saying this anymore. I can't sit around and read where women are just mimicking back all the things that are wrong with their gender as told to them by men.

Jane's career with the Kirov started and ended 40 years ago. Sabrina's professional dance experience is a bit more recent.

I do remember liking her in the Cheetah Girls movies (what can I say? I'm a Disney Channel fan), so I'm looking forward to seeing how she does.

Yes, yes, and yes! After four seasons, it has become pretty obvious that being a "ringer" doesn't mean much if there are other celebs coming in with huge fanbases. Jerry Rice was a doll but he did not make it to second place during his season because of his dancing ability. Different celebs have different advantages when the season starts. For some, it's the fact that they've danced before. For others, it's the fact that they have thousands of fans already set to vote for them even if they can't dance to save their life. It all balances out in the end.

On the subject of Sabrina, having a number of younger female cousins has made me very familiar with The Cheetah Girls. She seems like a sweetheart and is one of the few celebs from this new group that I'm interested in watching dance.

I guess I feel obligated to answer, Nastia -- sorry if my generalizations are wrong and sexist -- but *I* voted for Paulina Poritzkova (or however you spell it) because I thought Alec was a hottie and I had a crush on him. I've been on numerous message boards and "met" many people -- well, the vast majority are female people -- and many of them seem to vote based on the "hot" factor too. I feel like I have enough "evidence" (such as it is) to presume that that's what a lot of women do.

Now *maybe* football-loving straight guys - and gay guys (football loving and otherwise) - DO the exact same thing (straights for the models and Miss Americas and gays for the hotties). Maybe males don't vote very much, period (which I'm tempted to believe.)

But I still think I might be right and that's why the supermodel and the Miss America were the first two voted off in Season 4 though they were not the worst dancers, imo, by a long shot.

I also think straight men buy the majority of Playboy magazines. It's a sex drive thing (like the women voting for the cute guys instead of the better-dancing young sexy women.) But maybe I'm wrong and just as many women like to buy Playboy magazines as straight men??

Oh well, I'm the world's worst debater but I still think I *may* be right. But my apologies for making any assumptions whatsoever on the voting behavior of gay men (if they vote at all.) I haven't been able to figure that out from message boards, while I think I have figured it out for quite a large number of women. And the women who do vote because of "crushes" or attractions to hot males on the show -- THOSE are the women who vote in higher quantities that the casual viewer who's voting for the best dancer. Now I realize the tweens and young teens vote most of all, but I think their voting might be similar to the "fangurl" type women voters -- though it extends to old codgers who happen to be on their favorite show (Billy Ray Cyrus)

BTW, what's wrong with that? I wouldn't watch this stupid show just for the dancing. I wouldn't watch a soap opera just for the literary value of the story-telling. Sometimes you just want some idle thrills, like the guys who buy Playboy or go to girlie shows. I really don't see anything wrong with it whatsoever. Why can't women use men as sex objects too?

Topic, please. If you want to have a discussion about whether or not this is a fair competition, or a dancing competition, please start a new thread.

I've watched all four seasons and am a huge fan of the show and ballroom dancing in general. Without having seen any dancing yet, obviously, I picked my top three and Sabrina is the only woman on the list. Of course this will probably change after Monday night.

Two interviews -

Cheetah Girl From Orange County Steps Out In DwtS

TV Guide Q&A

Yuck. What an incredibly dislikeable person.

Really?


I really enjoyed her tonight...even if I didn't care for the hip-hop.

So far she's my favorite female contestant.

If she keeps annoying people, she's going to go sooner than expected. Disney fame alone won't give her a title. Monique Coleman was in the HSM phenom and she still would've gone in fifth place if Sara Evans hadn't quit.

I'm hoping this was only a bad first impression. I also hope my eyes will stop blearing over from those garish outfits she and Mark were in.

Hands down, the best tonight!

While she was the best dancer tonight she and her partner were also the worst in the personality department. This is about ballroom dancing so what they did was just annoying. If you want to do a little hip hop save it for your freestyle. This is hers to lose but if she continues to go against the judges and irritate the viewer she is done.

I liked Sabrina but I've learned from these dance shows that if you rub people the wrong way, you are essentially screwed. You need the whole package and if your personality is stank, then you should expect to not make it far.

But I like Sabrina. She seems fun and can dance well. I hope she makes it far. We'll see though.

I think Sabrina is just really, really competitive, having said as much in previous interviews (regarding things like the Disney Channel Games). Nothing wrong with being competitive. The problem is, is that she apparently has not learned that an outright competitive and confident nature often does not translate well to television. It tends to come across as arrogance instead. Maybe (hopefully) Mark will be able to reign her in.

She has also said that she wants to work little cheetah details into each of her outfits because it's "who she is." When I heard that, I was just thinking -- no, no, no! Sabrina, you are not actually a cheetah, and I'm sure your fans won't feel slighted if you go a few weeks without wearing those dumb cheetah spots. And it's okay to change things up from your Disney Channel personality, now that you're on a completely different show. No need to incorporate cheetah spots and hip hop moves into everything you do. Please don't.

Mark was playing to the camera almost as much as Sabrina. Someone needs to tell them to calm down. People don't respond to the happy shininess.

Does she remind any of you of Barbara Jean in Reba McEntire's sitcom?

Wow she is the personification of "Spunky and Perky!!!" isn't she? She needs to be careful not to turn people off but I could see her riding The Cheetah Girls wave pretty far, especially since she's clearly a gifted dancer.

It's way too early in the season for Sabrina to already look like a Cheeto. Mark, I beg of you, keep her out of the tanning bed! She had one of the best performances on starting night, but I couldn't help noticing her leather like skin. Also dial the mega watt smile down a hundred notches. Super fakey and grating.

Enjoyed her dancing, didn't care much for her personality. She really needs to dial down the perkiness a notch.

I'm not really into the ballroom dancing so I really enjoyed her dance. Even with the hip hop. And besides what ballroom dances to the Pussycat Dolls. If they want ballroom dancing then maybe they should not play hip hop like music.

But I do think she should act like her character in the Cheetah Girls movie, that might help her tone her personality a litte.

For some reason I'm generally up on my Disney Channel shows and what not, so I've been familiar with Sabrina (at least on a minimal level) for some time. When the Cheetah Girls first showed up, I thought she was a cute girl. But since then she has turned oranger and oranger and winds up looking faker and faker. It's the orange tan with the overly style blond hair and lots of make-up look.

Now I'm not sure what always posseses her to feel the need to be practically glowing orange, but it's certainly not a DWTS thing. And of course DWTS will do nothing but encourage her already existing fake tanner problem.

It's too bad you can't vote against people. "Cheetahlicious" is not a word.

That's a word that was used annoyingly in the Cheetah Girls movies. It's not meant to be a real word. Just a combined word for that the tweeners love so much.

For being short and stuby looking, that girl is flexible.

The cheetah girls thing may be against her, but I thought this was dancing competition, not a popularity contest. This is my first season watching this show so maybe I don't know the rules. I thought they had the best dance of the night. It was fun and energenic and matched the song really well.

But I would think her being half Mexican that she would want to learn some latin moves.

I don't hate the girl at all, but I think the "Cheetah-licious" crap has been beaten into these girls by the Disney machine. They have been doing this schtick for several years now and any time they are interviewed everything is Cheetah this and Cheetah that. It might just be a case of too much media training. She needs to dial it back a bit and be real.

Frankly I judge my faves by two criteria, what's my pre-connection to them (I'm no raving fan of anyone they've put on so far, so it's more like do I generally like their tv show or music or celebrity personality or whatev) and, most importantly what they bring to the dance floor. I will be on your train if you work hard, perform well, and look like you enjoy it. Given that, I hoped to see big things from Sabrina, who I know because some of the Cheetah Girls are/were in another girl group I liked, 3LW, and Mel, who managed to find new life in America by working the Eddie Murphy break up and baby like a champ. Back to Sabrina, IMHO, she delivered big time last night. It reminded me of the good old days of Julianne and Apolo dancing with intensity, performance, and vibe. I think Sabrina's biggest challenge is mental. If she commits to ballroom technique, she should go far. I watched her performance twice and the second time, I thought to myself that there was no reason tfor her to use hip hop. She could have handled anything Mark choreographed for her and it would have been just as sexy and precise as the choreography that they did use. Hopefully she'll listen to the judges and master ballroom styles and keep entertaining on the dance floor.

I am going to haaaaaate myself for writing this, because it is going to sound etremely sizist, but I get a very Miss Piggy-esque vibe from her. And it is not so much the baby weight, but the facial features and perma-smile... I really liked Mark, though...

I am not a DWTS fan, nor am I a Cheetah Girls fan but after watching Sabrina last night (first viewing of the show EVER) and then reading all the hoopla surrounding it, I have what I would consider a few fairly innocent questions: Isn't the mark of a good dancer their ability to entertain? I realize that this is a ballroom competition, but as with any art form isn't there room for innovativeness? I thought that Sabrina rocked, while keeping traditional aspects of the CHA CHA and working in her own talents. I thought is worked! It may be enough to get me to tune in again next week just to watch her dance.

I hated her, and hated her dance. That was NOT a cha-cha. She should have gotten the lowest scores of the night, not the highest. I think the judges were told "The Disney (aka ABC) star can't be the first one gone" and voted accordingly.

Yuck.

It's really fascinating how much the rehearsal videos and judges' comments can affect the way viewers see a dance. There were two short hiphop breaks in a routine that was otherwise filled with textbook cha cha steps and styling but because the rehearsal footage was edited to concentrate on the hiphop elements and because that was all Len wanted to comment on, a lot of viewers seem to think that the whole thing was a hiphop performance with some cha cha thrown in. That's too bad. I hope that Sabrina can overcome any backlash and manage to stick around. After watching her performance again I am really impressed by her arm and head styling and how natural she made it look.

Are Sabrina and Mark actually dating?

Wow - that only took a day for the dating rumors to start!

Wow. I can't really justify this, but I kind of viscerally hate this girl. The insufferable personality, the orange tan, the caked-on makeup-- just, ugh. I really want to vote AGAINST her somehow.... Sigh.

I may have an advantage, which is--well, not innocence so much as sheer obliviousness. So I don't know who Sabrina is, or the Cheetah Girls.

But I thought she was adorable. She just had such energy and sexiness and sass and sheer joy in that first dance. That dance made me feel happy.

I can't help remembering the Bloomsbury painter, Dora Carrington, who was quoted in the movie Carrington as saying, "I paint when I am happy, and it makes me happier!"

I think Sabrina dances when she is happy and it makes her happier. And me. (I felt the same way last season about Joey Fatone.)

So, go Sabrina!

After seeing the hip hop dancing in Floyd and Karina's cha cha, followed by the judges not saying a word, I wonder why TPTB put so much emphasis on the controversy of Sabrina and Mark using hip hop.

Yes, indeed it is. I damn near had paroxysms of joy due to her foot and leg action. Baby Ballas put together a very nice routine (with high cha content) that she executed very well. I didn't particularly like her personality but I can't fault her performance. The brouhaha reminds me of when the esteemed judges told Louis (twice!) that he had not choreographed a proper samba and everyone going to town based on those comments . . .

Sabrina looks exactly like Mariah Carey.

One thing I really liked about Sabrina and Mark's cha cha is that it started at the beginning of the music and ended at the end. The usual DWTS routine, especially in the early weeks, is something like -- play with props, dance, pose, dance, pose some more, dip, dance, pose, etc. They didn't stand around playing with the hat or spend a lot of time flipping her skirt. I'd rather see 10 seconds of hip hop than a whole lot of standing around prettily. It shows that Sabrina has the stamina to do a whole dance.

I agree. The judges made a big deal out of the hip-hop. The majority of the dance had cha-cha elements. Plus, she is better than the other women and has a lot of potential.

Controversy alert: Apparently, Sabrina has extensive dance training and even worked as a dance teacher. She is not trained in ballroom, but she is trained in basically every other genre. I've seen a lot of posts about this on the ABC boards and she seems to be getting the Mario treatment.

The second that Mark kissed her forehead, I knew it was going to open the floodgates. I just didn't think that the dating rumors would start so soon. Have they come up with a cheesy combined name yet?

But all the women on this show have caked-on makeup and orange tans

Yeah, but the female celebs gradually increase their orangeness. Sabrina looks radioactive already.




That means she'll go far, but will ultimately loose. There has been at least one ringer per season, but they've never won.



I think Mark has a girlfriend, just don't ask me how I know cause I can't remember. I vaguely recall a Julianne lookalike. Waif and platinum blonde hair.

As for cheesy combined name... Hmm, Sark? No, isn't that used in a different fandom? Marina? Wait, I think that's been taken by Mario/Karina. I quit.

I ought to be embarrassed that I know this but what the helll... Marky has a myspace thing and his girlfriend Fiona figures prominently on it. Also his band (duo?) "Almost Amy" with Derek Hough is doing the song that plays when you go there (the myspace thing.) I don't know which one is singing though - but I think it's Marky.

It's there he says he met the "love of his life" at age 12. Julianne? And ain't that a weird thing to say when your new girlfriend is being talked about so much.

Oh, and how about Markrina?

ETA: Just checked out Marky's myspace and couldn't find Fiona on it -- but I swear she used to be!:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=13231243

Don't be ashamed, because not only was I aware that he supposedly had a girlfriend, I had also heard that the two broke up before he made the trek to Los Angeles. Maybe he was planning all along on getting with his dance partner, heh. And ick. I don't really need to hear the two denying romance rumors all season. I think if you look in the photos section, there is an old pic with him and his girlfriend taking a hot air balloon ride. Or something. He might've removed it, I don't know.

Elsa - you're right! His status is also now listed as "single". :-) Okay, Maks has now officially been replaced by my new, and much younger, crush. I think he's just adorable, and I don't mind his hyper, semi-spastic style. I agree, if Sabrina could tone it down a bit, I could really get into them as a couple. She does strongly resemble a mini-me of Mariah.