From HBO.com:

Go Barry....

Bill and Freddy... Good Cop, Bad Cop? Er, no.

I just want to say that tonights episode was really awesome. They're getting better every week.

I will have to watch this a couple more times. I felt really sorry for John when Bill was questioning him. I'm begining to think that John thinks he's Jesus. Who knows, maybe he is.

Cracked me up to see Bill, Freddy and Zippy together in that car. How nice of Zip to let Bill tag along.

This episode makes me view John in a whole new light. He seems to be as confused as everyone else in the story. When he's finally confronted with direct question over who the hell he is and what he means, he gets this pained look of confusion. He's as much in the dark as everyone else.

What was the deal with Barry and Shaun in the bar? Was Barry remembering what had happened to him at that age?

Awesome episode. But I need a revelation. Hopefully soon.

Jesus Christ Jesus Christ! Is Milch channeling Timothy Leary? I give up. I don't care what happens to any of these people, and I no longer care who or what John is.

lol, AuntiePam.

I'm pretty much just hanging in because of curiosity and some Butchie love. Not that I have much hope the curiosity is going to be satisfied.

I thought this ep was ok, didn't enjoy it quite as much as the past ones. It just didn't seem as quite as riveting to me. And, where's Mitch????? I miss him :(

Luckily next week's promo makes it look like he's finally back, though who knows if he will escape Cissy's violence ;)

He'll be back next week, unfortunately.

So did anything actually happen in this episode? If so, I missed it. Sure, everybody talked and worried about something that <I>didn't</I> happen (although apparently it will next week). And we learned a little more about John's abilities (and his inability to understand much more about what he's doing than anybody else), and some of the relationships moved forward about .02 percent. But, really, if we had skipped this episode entirely, would we actually have missed anything? I don't think so.

As I was watching a marathon of the show "My Boys" today I realized that it has come to a point where even TBS is putting out more interesting shows than HBO is these days. For me watching JFC is like watching a really bad movie, I don't want to stick around for the end but I have already passed the half-way mark so I might as well see it through. What a waste of some real talent both in front of and behind the camera.

This show makes me heave way too many exasperated sighs. I'm curious, but I'm also tiring of feeling like, "Here it is...something is finally going to happen...ooh, I'm feeling kind of nervous, this is probably going to be big..." and then, nothing. Again. Some more.



I vasillate back and forth between thinking that's the case, and thinking that he knows but can't come up with a way to answer everyone's questions with his limited dialog. Somebody needs to turn on a tv or radio, STAT! Because his speech to Sissy after hearing the radio commercial was the most we've gotten out of him yet. He looked often like a person who knew what they wanted to say, but was frustrated because they couldn't come up with the words to say it.

I feel really bad for Cunningham. He seems like an incredibly sweet, kind and gentle person who has been so severely damaged that he's gone rather crazy. I like him with his bear.

Butchie's dialog with Tina at the bar was OUCH, but funny. "I wouldn't have time to eat." Ha! He's so mean to her, and I can't even muster up a "Hey Butchie, that's not nice" because I love his character so much.

I do wonder if Jennifer Grey's character is going to matter much somehow in the big picture? I am confused about the need for her presence right now.

Fish and visitors stink after three days. John's on day seven . . . .

Jennifer Grey, is she the Yost family lawyer's wife?

When that third episode ended, with Shaunie skating on the half-pipe and some cool-ass Muse song playing that I had never heard of, I couldn't stop re-watching that sequence. I was so enthralled.

I liked the return of "I don't know Butchie instead" tonight.

Is there really ONLY 2 more episodes this season? B/c the previews def. haven't mentioned that rather important fact (for most HBO shows, the last 3 episodes of any given season are usually highlighted in the previews as such).

?

I was on the edge of my seat when Bill went into interrogation mode! You could tell he was putting all his cop skills to work on John. I also got the impression that John couldn't articulate a response, and it indeed gave him pain. The sudden self-stabbing was shocking! What was John trying to communicate with that?

Speaking of communicating, there were more technology snafus tonight: Shaunie's message to the store did not go through. Butchie, trying to reach Shaun, leaves a message that his "phone is fucked up."

Butchie to John: "Fuck the Internet John!"

(yes, because of course, the Internet isn't "Huge." just big.)

Ramon's shuffleboard court with the 10s at the bottom of the pyramid cracked me up. "You don't reward failure, Ramon!"

I'm not any closer to figuring out what's going on (saving the big bucks to pay the person who can tell me, haha), but I still absolutely love this show. Every second that it's on I'm dreading the end, which always comes too soon. Maybe it's naive, but I'm keeping the faith until the bitter end with the hopeful assumption that all my questions will be answered. If nothing else it has certainly kept my brain from becoming dulled out which is what usually happens with summer programming.

Oh, Butchie. My love for you knows no bounds. Ditto Bill. And Ramon. And Shaunie.....every time he smiles it pierces my heart. These are the reasons I keep watching this show.

She's his fiancee.

The Snug Harbor has wireless internet? REALLY?

When exactly did Shaun turn fourteen. I swear everyone said he was thirteen for the majority of episodes, and suddenly he's a year older? And just finished the sixth grade? ? It started last week, and continued through this one. Huh?

Nasty as they are to one another, I really liked Butchie and Tina's attempt at co-parenting at the hotel bar. Tina's trying to form a friendship with Butchie as much as she's trying to be Shaun's mom, and it takes a lot to push aside his snide remarks to get along with her kid's father. Her offer to take Shaun to Sea World broke my heart as well. At fourteen, he's totally too old to go, and she's clearly trying to make up for a time when Shamoo was age appropriate but she wasn't there to take him. So many teenagers would run for their lives rather than show up at Sea World with their porn star moms, but Shaun just smiles and tries to make mom happy. Cissy did do something right -- she raised an amazing child.

I like the contrast of Kai losing faith in her love for the Yosts while John struggles with who he is and his father's mission for him. Just because she chooses to trust her heart against her better judgment, doesn't mean John will do the same.



Brian Van Holt is truly a revelation on this show. All the acting is strong, even Rebecca de Mornay's blustery Cissy, but it's Van Holt that's holding the heart and soul of the show in every twitchy jerk and pained expression. I don't even care if we never find out who or what John is, so long as I can watch BVH's Butchie grow into a real boy. His scene with Shaun last week, when Shaun ruffled his hair and caressed his head rather than smack him, was one of the more poignant ones I've seen in a long time, and most of it was his acting.



Me too! Very few characters on this show are likeable, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve character development like everyone else.

this is probably one of the worst shows I have ever seen. here's hoping for a cancellation after the season is over.

Gawd.

I've tried, every single week now for two months or whatever.

I'm just gonna have to stop b/c it's too fucking depressing that Deadwood and Rome were killed for this crap.

I'm absolutely shocked that somebody actually sat down, read this script and said, "we've just got to do this show". This is by far the worst thing HBO has ever done.

I was fascinated with all the anger with John.

Bill, Freddy, and Zippy staking out Chez Yost? Thank you, DM.

I miss Joe and the doc. I guess the doc would have been a damper of reason on the confusion at the Snug. I'd happily swap Joe for Dwayne.

Another day shot to hell in IB, thanks to John Monad. Cryptic messages, lost kids, then closing time. The Yosts are now 84 days in arrears, methinks.

Butchie looked weirdly out of place in the hotel bar, like he'd walked into a different show. I think he even looked clean.

Funny that Butchie was hugging himself and going fetal under the stress, and Cissy told him (not angrily AFAIK) not to start doing that again. The intervention line was hi-larious when Butchie came in.

Funny to see Kai carrying a flask. Why would John specifically tell Kai to stay for Butchie? John's father must not like her much. Fifteen years taking crap from Cissy, then a subconscious compulsion to help a three-days-clean junkie.



He corrected Bill in the previous ep.



I think he copied the file to the laptop. I'm more surprised that Dwayne owns a computer. Otherwise, I don't know why he'd use the rental at Trixie's "Hot Cup O Web" (TM NewsRadio) except for the occasional boob massage.

I wonder if really Shawn did die in the accident and he was replaced by John with some spirit or such. I could see this happening in order to give the family time to fix their lives and problems before Shawn leaves for good... I mean, Shawn did just show up out of nowhere in the old bar... just like John does.

Butchie to all the people gathered in his room: "Hey if this is an intervention, I'm clean." ETA: "there's a bunch of people here who love you like crazy." Still can't figure it out, but I give them a solid 10 in style points.

This episode disappointed me. For the first time instead of wanting more I was left with more of a mild interest in reading a short synopsis of the last two episodes after they are over.

Boomshakalaka, I've stopped watching and am only reading the comments and blog synopses myself. Much less frustrating than sitting through the episodes at this point in time.

I liked seeing Linc and Tina saying, "With my past, why am I being given this opportunity to change? Should I? Can I?"

Shaun being with Tina in her car at the same time he's with Barry in the bar tells me Shaun is crossing over into John land. And the red backlighting of his juggling made him look, to me, like a sorcerer. The change coming over him sheds light on last week where Shaun wanted to go back to normal, smoked a joint, and wished Zippy hadn't kissed him. Cissy's ballbreaking and Shaun's friends teasing wasn't causing his pain. It was foreknowledge of the changes he will undergo.

Shaun telling Kai "I know more than I let on" may connect with Mitch saying in ep 1 "he plays it close to the vest" and also to how nonplussed he was about bringing Zippy back from the dead.

Next week Shaunie goes to Hogwarts.

The only thing that could save this show is if in the next episode, Al Swearengen wakes up in bed and tells Trixe that he just had the strangest dream.

A few have mentioned that Shaun was projecting himself into the scene with Barry.
I have an alternate viewpoint.
Barry sees Shaun at the bar as part of his seizure visions or just a simple daydream.
I don't think Shaun is dead or a shape shifter.

Is that a threesome with Sol?

Perhaps John just isn't allowed to answer questions directly. He looked like he wanted to.

This was a good episode but not great. John stabbing himself and Bill's reaction were phenomenal. The lighting was different and very well done in many scenes.

It seems like there were more references to angels, work on Earth, and a mysterious war than in previous episodes. Even the scene with Linc and Tina seemed to have a double meaning to me when he mentioned that they were being watched and allowed to operate.

I still think he was talking about the Stinkweed company/people but all the other references could imply that Linc is a tool for evil. That was backed up by Butchies comment about Linc to Tina.

I think Shaun will begin to travel now that he has signed with Linc but the real significance of his life and the Yosts has still been hidden from us. There might have been more hints of what that is in this ep but I missed them like when John climbed the tower. He's acting like a former Special Forces soldier which I speculated could be his backstory before but maybe he IS a soldier just not an earthly one like an angel. The SEALs train at the facility with the elephant cage.

John does seem to be acting more human or at least limited in his knowledge as if he is just a vessel which shoots some holes in the alien theory. He could be an angel but wouldn't there be evil angels then who also had special powers over mankind?

The scene with Barry and the Teddy Bear during his vision was chilling. It highlighted the abuse that it seems the gay community faces on a daily basis. It was heartbreaking. That sounded like Milch himself didn't it?

I loved Cass's scenes and thought the actress did very well but was frustrated with John's non-response to her demands. He put her in another trance and that was it.

The bigger picture is still very murky. Is John an alien, an angel, or human with special powers developed by the military. Who am I Dr. Phil??

Or some kind of Cyborg who cuts, bleeds and controls hls own healing process?

ETA: I've only posted here afew times and I keep mentioning the government as being behind John's exsistence. I just wanted to add that it is not what I necessarily believe. I don't know what to believe!

Also, about the scene with Zippy in the cage behind Freddy in the car. The second time Freddy turned around to look at Zippy I thought he was going to see John there...but of course he didn't.

Obviously, the issue is that the show itself is a shapeshifter, and not everyone is watching the same program. Some have been rerouted into an alternate reality watching live feed outtakes from a traffic cam out behind a 7-11 in Hangover Beach, while the rest of us are seeing the best television show on spirituality since "The Power of Myth." I really like the good writing, the naturalistic acting and the creative production; I love the sheer humanity, the profane communication and the fact that the writers and producers do not seem compelled to do my thinking for me.

Bring on a ambiguity--I'll take it on faith.

I like this observation very much!

I really liked this episode, although I am yet to warm to the idea that the show deserves another season.

Whilst Van Volt led us to believe that episode 8 would be the big one, I just saw more treading of water (and little walking on it), dramatically speaking. Volt also says that episode 10 is where the story begins properly, but I think Milch has squandered good will with the obtuse approach. Clearly *he* feels no urgency to tell the story of God communicating with humankind. All I see is iterations of the same character quirks, and delayed gratification regarding the show's own reason for being.

At any rate, are we to assume that Shaun being 'gone soon' coincides with him selling his soul over to Linc at the end of the episode?

Well put. These are the same reasons that led me to be so disappointed with this episode.

On a scene by scene basis I think the acting is outstanding and many of the characters are quite compelling. I also enjoy a smartly written story even if it is slow developing...Carnivale comes to mind.

But in a short 10 episode season I find treading water at number 8 very disappointing.

Sean (or the actor who plays him) can navigate a skateboard, while carrying a surf board in one hand, and juggling with the other. That's just amazing.

This episode was funnier than all of the other JFC episodes combined. Lots of nice one-liners; the shuffleboard painting error was quite good. Dwayne sticking his fanny out of a car window in a feeble attempt to grab a laptop--why not just open the door to the car? I'd call the episode a harbinger of much improvement, but after being let down on so many occasions prior by the empty promises of JFC, I think I'd better refrain from optimism.

The surf sequences at the beginning of the episode were simply magnificent, and it was nice to see Brian Van Holt actually standing on his board! I know it was supposed to be early morning, but the contrast in lighting from earlier surf sequences was significant. Previously, the surfing scenes have been bathed in a gorgeous golden glow, but the lighting was dark, depressing, and menacing last night. As Shaun will soon be gone, I'm hoping it's not foreshadowing of him falling into the same patterns as his father, or meeting another unfortunate end from a wave he couldn't handle.

I also loved the return of "I don't know Butchie instead."



Whatever it was, with the eerie red lighting and deserted bar, I was getting flashbacks to "The Shining" and waiting for those absolutely terrifying twins to show up and that's not a place I like to visit! I also think Barry was simply seeing Shaun and picturing him because he's very close in age to young Barry when he was molested in room 24. Considering his screw up family and death/resurrection and relative emotional sanity, Shaun is a better version of who Barry could have been at that age?

ETA:



The "actor" is professional surfer Brad Gerlach and according to Kai, the character's name is Sonny Mac. I'm guessing he's some kind of local surfing star, because it seemed like Butchie was testing his surfing skills against the competition.

Who was the guy surfing with Butchie? Is he significant?

I continue to love the acting (Ed O'Neill and Dayton Callie! Whoo!), but I'm officially bored with the 'plot.' Big and huge this, fellas.

Per usual, I’ll have to rewatch and read the comments on this board to ‘get’ this episode. I really enjoyed the program yesterday, especially Ed O’Neil. He is a fabulous actor and I’m glad he’s doing a role with such depth that demonstrates his acting talent. I see an Emmy nomination for ‘Bill’ as Best Supporting Actor, and I’d love to see Butchie nominated as Best Actor.

The theme of JFC seems to be related to the New Testament. John being John the Baptist, preparing the way for Jesus. I think Shaunie is Jesus, who started his public life at 13 preaching in the temple - “the Word made flesh??”. The other characters are probably apostles. The shuffleboard reminds me of the ten commandments tablets, i.e Moses brings down from the mountain.
More later.

I’ve posted after a couple of episodes that there was no forward momentum and “treading water” describes it very well. As much as I enjoy watching the deeply flawed, interesting characters and love Milchean dialogue, I’m getting a little impatient with the withholding of any explanation and plot development.

John seems to be more of a conduit and an instrument than an independent agent who is thinking and learning and acting on his own. Actually, I am getting a little impatient with him, too.

With only two more episodes of the season, I’m going to need an answer or two rather than more mysteries to even care if there is a season 2.

ETA - Whatever problems this show may have, it's not the acting. This is an amazing group of actors who make it compelling, no matter the material. It wouldn't be the first time HBO shows have acting outstrip the material.

I am so glad this forums exists. I can now stop watching this show and come here and read what you guys say about it and call it a day.

The voice on the radio calling Cunningham a cocksucker and so forth was David Milch his own self.

Please explain the point of that!

I think this ep is the first where the main problem for the ep is telegraphed: Shaun is threatened. I don't remember another ep where I felt like I understood more than the characters understood while I was watching it. I remember watching the panic at the Snug, followed by Tina picking up Shaun off the street, and thinking, "Okay, I know that Shaun and Tina probably will amplify the panic by innocently going elsewhere." I don't have any questions today about how the story advanced in this ep, though I'm enjoying reading other ideas about it.

I remember thinking that Ep 5 (the first day that Tina tries to see Shaun) was disjointed; usually, I enjoy trying to keep my head above water. Now understanding the stakes for the characters, it works in rewatch. I couldn't breathe during the scene in Cissy's kitchen. The misery of all four people was devastating. I happened to pause the kitchen scene on a random frame with Butchie trying to support Tina, the mother of his child, and Kai in the background wishing desperately to be struck dead. Unfreakingbelievable.



The concept of showing little more than a week in IB may be a dramatic limitation. I think Milch treads on thin ice with the amount of change that the characters can realistically exhibit in a short time without interfering with their humanity.



The IB/Snug characters went back into old patterns with the most stressful possible event other than Shaun's death. The only big character growth I noticed in the IB/Snug characters 'today' since the sermon is that Cissy doesn't automatically berate Butchie. Also, Bill has moved from disabling grief to self-awareness and competence. The matter-of-fact way he acknowledged his stair phobia while sitting on the curb made me smile.



I think I'll be disappointed if it just means he's going farther from the nest, like teenagers usually do, and I don't think he'll die (again).

I'm wondering exactly what Linc is signing him to do. Is Linc signing him to Stinkweed? Signing him to a personal services contract? Linc has a five-year non-compete; Shaun would be at his peak when Linc would be free to promote him commercially. I can't decide whether Linc is interested in Shaun as a hobby, or a business opportunity, or an opportunity to redeem himself for what happened to Butchie, or a way to legally establish a vantage point in IB so he can watch the madness.