Here is the new thread for The Sopranos discussion. The old forum has been archived here for future historians to marvel at.

Let me be the first to say:

* It'll be weird to not see The Sopranos show forum anymore. I might just have to visit the archive to say "Hi" to it.

* The title of the thread is so hysterical and yet so true.

I was so pissed off on how the series ended that I actually thought about selling the Sopranos DVD's that I own but my mother talked me out of it. I'm not sure I'm gona watch Season 6: Part II again on DVD even though I'm pretty sure I'll buy it.

Hmm, according to Goldderby, these are the episodes they're submitting for the Emmys (two episodes together, distributed randomly).


- Soprano Home Movies
- Blue Comet

- Stage Five
- Kennedy and Heidi

- Second Coming
- Made in America

It's odd and sad to see this thread over here.

I think I need to see Dr. Melfi to learn to deal with my separation anxiety!

I'm sure I'll continue to watch my DVDs and marvel over this show for years to come, except for one part.

I think I must be the only one who has not yet been able to watch Coco getting percussion dentistry.

Word. The end of an era. And even though the quality of the last couple of seasons couldn't match the earlier ones, it was still better than almost anything the networks could throw at us. At least it has the distinction of generating the largest single episode thread that I've ever seen here: the finale thread ended up with 226 pages (3388 posts)! Of course the majority were of the "hated the ending/loved the ending" ilk, but still...

I hate Soprano Home Movies. It's one of the boring episodes I've ever seen of any show. I like Stage Five, Kennedy And Heidi and Blue Comet though.

Same here. I mean, a bad Sopranos is better than a good [insert lousy network fare here] but that show did nothing but waste time. I guess it was meant to show the major cracks in the foundation - Tony coming to blows with his #1, and foreshadow the Last Days of Bobby, but, eh.

So, what was this from the hangman thread?

DID / Y _ _ / H E _ _ / M E / W I T H / M Y / B _ L L S ? / W H _ / C _ N / _ _ C _ I N G / E _ T ?"

Last part appears to be "Who can fucking eat?"

First part is:

"Did you hear me with my balls?" - Junior.:-P


Sopranos Home Movies also contained the priceless information from Carm that "Tony is not a vindictive man!"

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing this: I started an "Artie Bucco" thread the day before they archived the old "Sopranos" forum, but I'm still hoping some of you may weigh in with your insights. Here's my post:

Did anyone else find the Artie Bucco character incredibly annoying? Every attempt John Ventimiglia made to come across as a colorful Italian character seemed extremely unauthentic, forced & clownishly exaggerated. All the showy, gratuitous gestering & use of ethnic colloquialisms irked me to no end. Was that intentional? I can't see any other reason why that pathetic clunky acting would meet the directors' approval unless they instructed him to behave like a cartoon character.

Also, did they ever show us or explain to us why Tony remained so surprisingly loyal to Artie over the years? Tony would've written anyone else out of his life, considering Artie's serious missteps, no?

I think Artie was his connection to his "real" past, the one before he was a mob boss. Tony may have even thought that Artie was one of the few people who really liked Tony for who he was, and not what he was. Of course, ironically, it seems Artie always wanted to get into Tony's mob-world. As for the character/acting, I always liked him on the show but can certainly understand why others didn't.

I guess I have been in denial but I knew the old threads had to close. It is still hard to believe that we will never see a new episode.

Ah, moving day. :-(

Yes, the final Sopranos Hangman game was:

"Did you hear me with my balls? Who can fucking eat?"

and it was from the episode "House Arrest" (Season 2, Episode 11) in which Uncle Junior was fit with the ankle bracelet ("It beeps") by Marshall McLuhan during his period of house arrest.

Since this is a general Sopranos thread, I don't suppose those of us who were really into the Hangman game could continue here, could we? Mod? I've still got a couple of really good ones. :-)

Word to that. I guess Bobby was right- we never even heard it coming...

I think it depends on the season you're watching. He had good ones and bad. The one where he gets an earring, loans money he doesn't get back, and hits on Ade - sooo annoying. Others when he's just kind of around, not so much. I like his performance in the Livia's Funeral ep, when he takes Tony out back and yells at him and throws garbage around. He's also hilarious in the Pussy Dies ep, trying to absolve himself of responsibility for Tony's botulism. And he and Char at the beginning, trying so hard to stay straight: "Arthur, does the mind not rebel at the thought of a bunch of dentists sending the Don of New Jersey on a cruise?" Artie does have this inner desperation and pathos bubbling near the bald surface always. And I missed him when he wasn't around. So, depending on his situation... YMMV

Just don't steal any magazine articles or you'll be finding a new therapist. ;)

Heh..I have been known to swipe a recipe from a dentist's office in the past.:p

Since it seems we can just gab about anything here, has anyone seen the movie "Lonely Hearts", with James G.(looking as though he should seriously consider salads)?

In what must be a wink to the Sopranos, the script has Scott Caan calling him a "fat fuck"!

Thank you, ejluther and Cathode Tube, for sharing your insights & opinions on Artie!

(Please do not use TWoP to quote and promote your own blog. Thanks. --Barnes)

That's very interesting but "on the lam" at Holstein's Diner? In Bloomfield, NJ? That doesn't seem to make much sense - why arrange their "permanent flight" and then casually eat out like that? Plus, their conversations at the table don't make sense if they are on the lam - they certainly don't act like they are. This "alternate ending" makes sense to me if the diner scene was reshot but not if it's the exact same scene with different events leading up to it. Also, in this alternate ending, how do we find out that Little Carmine is a rat? Again, this would make sense to me if not for the "comprising of the same scenes ordered differently and with a few omissions." stuff. It seems like we'd need at least a few new/different scenes (as opposed to just what we saw) to have this alternate ending make sense.

Omissions is meant both ways. There were scenes we saw that weren't meant to be in it and scenes that were shot and left out. That's my fault in penning the article. The final scene was supposed to be the same. It's been established that additional footage was shot, but according to the source, what we saw was intended to be the final scene regardless of what preceeded it.

Thanks a lot - it's very interesting and certainly sounds like it could work the way you've described. I wonder what the reaction would have been if that's the way it had aired? Would people have liked a "Sopranos on the lam" ending better than the "Choose your own fate for Tony" one - would fans have felt more or less closure? More specifically, how would this revised edit have affected the reactions to the cut-to-black?

I don't know. Neither really offer as much closure as you would want from a series that has ran as long as this.

It's hard for me to say if I would have liked the ending better without seeing for myself how this alternate take would have played out (assuming any of this is true). The scene in the diner would have to have some significant changes to make an on-the-lam scenario plausible. Like you said, EJLuther, the conversation and actions of the characters (like hiding out in a popular NJ eatery, strolling in one-by-one, and Meadow spending a lifetime parking a flashy car in the middle of a fairly busy area) doesn't lend it itself to this alternative.

Actually, I've been more interested in the alleged scene of Paulie getting shot and how that may have affected the reactions and interpretations of the final scene. If we actually had seen Paulie get shot after the peace deal with NY, it certainly would have strengthened the argument that Tony was killed at the end. Anyway, I'm not sure about the legitimacy of either of these rumored scenarios. If someone from the show with an established pedigree had claimed these things I would have an easier time believing them, but in the "Paulie gets shot" scenario the source was an unnamed stripper. I'd like to get some stronger confirmation of these rumors somewhere down the road.

See, ejluther, there is definitive evidence that the Holstein's scene was re-shot. If you recall, in HBO's screen-shots before "Made in America" aired, Tony was wearing a different shirt than we saw once the episode aired. This doesn't support the latest alternative ending theory in any substantial way, but does confirm that the Diner scene was re-shot for some reason (or, as according to some rumors, multiple Diner shots were done).

Good point - it certainly would.

Oh, right - the changing shirt! I think the official HBO line was that the photo in question was taken during rehersals and JG was wearing his own shirt but then why were Carmela and AJ in the same clothes? The plot thickens and, while I hope the DVD release answers some of these questions, my guess is we'll have to wait until the SOPRANOS boxset hits the shelves. And I have a feeling even that probably won't bring definitive answers...

The first academic conference on The Sopranos. I am definitely submitting.

Sopranos May 2008 Conference: Formal Call for Papers

And here's our formal call for papers ... to everyone...

David Lavery, convener, Paul Levinson and Douglas L. Howard co-conveners, solicit your proposals for an academic conference on The Sopranos to be held at Fordham University’s Lincoln Center Campus in New York, May 8-10, 2008. Sponsored by Film and Television and the School of Arts at Brunel University in London in partnership with the Department of Communication and Media Studies at Fordham University in New York, this first, major scholarly gathering devoted to the HBO drama The Sopranos aspires to provide a definitive assessment of one of what may well be the best television series ever made. Proposals on any aspect of The Sopranos are invited. The best papers from the conference will be published as a book.

We welcome proposals of 200-300 words (or an abstract of a completed paper) on any aspect of The Sopranos. We invite presentations from the perspective of any discipline: literature, history, communication, film and television studies, women’s studies, philosophy, religion, linguistics, music, cultural studies, and others. Discussions of the text, the social context, the audience, the producers, the production, and more are all appropriate. For a comprehensive but not exhaustive list of possible topics, see below. All proposals/abstracts should demonstrate familiarity with the substantial already-published scholarship on The Sopranos.

Papers are limited to a maximum reading time of 20 minutes. Since all rooms at the conference site are fully equipped, presenters can anticipate using DVDs, Power Point, the Internet, and visual presenters in their talks. Please fill out this form. Submissions by undergraduates and graduate students are welcome; however, undergraduate students should provide the name, email, and phone number of a faculty member willing to consult with them (the faculty member need not attend). Submissions from non-academics - writers, critics, unofficial "students" of The Sopranos - are also very welcome.

Proposals for prearranged, complete sessions of multiple presenters (no more than three) are welcome. Fill out the session form.

There is a pdf of almost 400 suggested topics here.

Here is the the announcement, with links to more information. They expect to present 100 papers, and a 20-minute reading time is probably 6,000-7,000 words.

So you wrote this article? If so, can you tell us a little more (within reason) about how you got this information?



Some people speculated back when the "Second Coming" first aired that Tony may have been a target at Phil's house, but many people (like me) thought that it would be too big a risk to kill a guy in the house of the boss. That's not quite following the "keep the boss removed from the actual killing" procedure they usually follow.



Carlo may be a relatively minor character to the audience, but that is very different from being a minor character in the Sopranos organization. How much the viewer at home knows about him is irrelevant to the amount of damage he could do to Tony. Carlo heads an important crew with responsibility for the docks, a big cash cow for the gang. When Tony and Melvoin discuss the ramifications of Carlo possibly flipping, they make it pretty clear that Carlo could give the feds some pretty damaging information. Carmine is a semi-retired guy from another Family who seems to have always been kept at an arms length from the really serious stuff. Carmine's history with Tony seems to revolve around him being the world's worst mediator. Apart from some suggestive background info, I'm not sure what kind of damning stuff Carmine could give the feds regarding Tony that would stick. Carmine would be a bigger danger to his own Family. Which brings to mind this question: if NY manages to find out Carmine is an informant who screwed up a planned hit on Tony, would Carmine be around for much longer unless he ran straight from Phil's house to protective custody? These guys don't waste time plugging leaks.

Sure. One of my high school friends has an older cousin who worked on the show for the past two seasons. The cousin used to bust our balls, buy us beer, etc. when we were in high school. He's been working on The Sopranos for the past two seasons and came back to Philly for a wedding. We went out one of the nights he was home, I told him that I'm a television critic (trying at least, journalism probably wasn't the best career choice) we exchanged stories, etc.

He told me about the alternate ending and after some prodding said I could print, using him as an anonymous source. I asked him a few questions I had and have no doubt he was true.

Keep in mid, this was an ending on paper. He had no idea if it was actually cut. There's also a possibility that certain scenes that make it work weren't shot.

I absolutely agree and asked why they'd let Carmine go if he was a snitch (two birds with one stone sort of thing). The source suggested Carmine could have been wearing a wire, although he really didn't know. Writer's write around these kind of plot holes all the time. And sometimes they don't even bother to write around them.

As far as Carlo being the leak, I guess your reasoning is why Chase went with the ending he did. But I say Little Carmine makes more sense. Mediator's are actually pretty damaging. They're at sitdowns between bosses. Relaying the information that Tony curb-stomped Carlo, they were going to war with New York, etc. is all way more damaging than trying to put together a RICO case through Carlo. Wear a wire to one meeting and you can probably get Tony on attempted murder. The scene between Tony and Melvin seemed to me like it was decided and shot at the last second.

And if I remember correctly, the only scene Lil Carmine shows up in after 'Second Coming' is the sit down with Butchie. I could be wrong but him being the snitch doesn't jeapordize any other scenes.

First of all, thanks for responding!



Mediator's are at sitdowns and would know certain things, certainly, but I'm not sure how actionable that information would be in indicting someone. The stuff Carmine could give the authorities would be what I would call useful background information, but legally I don't think they could make a case based on his information alone. Telling the cops he heard Coco got curb-stomped might be useful in filling in some of their gaps in the knowledge, but I don't think there is a case there (I don't think Coco is itching to press charges). It's not like Carmine is sitting in on the planning sessions for murders. Granted, the final sit-down in the warehouse might be suggestive with the talk about Phil having to go, but on its own I still don't think a case could be built around it. I'm not sure how many people are still hanging around this forum, but hopefully there is someone with legal knowledge who could explain things better about this situation.

Let me put it this way; I'm not disagreeing that Carmine could have been a informant. There are certainly some signs pointing that way. I can go along with both Carlo and Carmine contributing to some trial. I just think that Carlo is in a better position to give specific details about serious crime that could actually send someone to prison, while Carmine provides background to flesh things out. Btw, have you heard anything about the alleged Paulie death scene?

Speaking from experience,TVBlogger, hold on tight to your dream if journalism is what you really want to do with your life. I started out as a journalism major over twenty years ago, and switched over to psych when I realized how few paid opportunities existed in my city. Although I've had a fairly successful career in human services, I regret the decision almost every day. Hang in there, and keep the faith!

That's the one thing I blew completely. I was so involved in processing the new ending I completely forgot to ask about Paulie's death and Junior's alleged funeral. I've considered trying to follow up but it'd be an awkward conversation. "Hey, yeah, I know you're back in Brooklyn but uh, did Paulie actually die?"

If we don't know by Thanksgiving or the next time someone gets married or dies I'll find out :P

Thanks for the kind words. It's rough though. Newspaper circulation is plummeting. I'm not much for compromise though so it's full time or freelance/welfare for me :P

Wouldn't they move a little further away if they were on the lam? It seemed as if the restaurant was pretty familiar to them....probably not the best place to hide?

Again, it's a good point. The way I see it the scene is yet another piece that could double for each ending. Consider Meadow's rush in trying to park, the way each member of the family comes individually and again, the way the camera heightens the tension (it makes more sense to me if they're on the run) in the diner.

I'm not sure, but wasn't the only thing identifying that diner to Jersey the onion rings?

Personally, I think you could question the decision making in either ending. Why was Meadow in such a rush to park? She doesn't really seem the type to shit her pants over being late does she?

Then there's the alleged multiple-shoots in the diner.

Sorry, but I'm obsessed with all the alleged deleted scenes from this show over the years. Is the Junior funeral a recent claim (post-finale)? I had read way back when on spoiler sites that Junior would commit suicide or die or natural causes, but we all know how many of these kinds of claims are bogus. Is there someone claiming that there was something actually filmed? There does seem to have been footage shot of Bobby's funeral mass, since the actor who played the priest had mentioned it prior to the episode even airing. Based on pictures deadwood stage obtained from the HBO site, there also seems to be footage of Sil and Burt Gervasi at some kind of party, probably when Burt first approached Sil about switching sides.

I wanted to know about them too.

I re-watched "College" tonight (S1 E5). Of course, it's such a classic episode. I smiled when Tony told Meadow that "being a rebel in my family woulda meant selling patio furniture on route 22." I love that so many threads were re-connected in years to come.

I had forgotten how early in the series that Meadow acknowledged what her dad did for a living, and basically accepted it, as Carm did. I recall that Carm's confession to the flawed Father Phil had originally given me hope for her "salvation." Loved the Hawthorne quotation at the end that momentarily gives Tony pause about his private and public faces. This episode is a gem.

I've never heard about this - anyone know the details of the rumor?

I think they do show the "Holsten's" sign at one point and Carm does mention it by name earlier, but both those things could be easily rectified. The main reason I think the viewers know where it was is because of the media attention given the filming of it.

I sort of suspected Meadow was going to tell them she was pregnant - there was that line about changing birth control so we know she was at the doctor. And, as some smart poster elsewhere pointed out, women often change the type of birth control they're on when they know they want to get pregnant soon so maybe Meadow's wish just came true earlier. Of course, this is all speculation on my part but, I agree, Meadow seemed a bit agitated. Of course, it could have been her difficulty parking that flustered her. I guess my main thing about the diner scene doubling for this alternate ending, is the way Carm and AJ seemed so blasé - if they were forced to be on the lam, I just think they'd be bitchier and whinier about it. Or, alternately, not even go as a family and and just let Tony be on his own. Of course, perhaps that doesn't mean there couldn't have been an earlier scene showing their unhappiness at being on the run - I'm reminded of the scene at the safe house where Carm whines that she "just wants to go home" (IIRC). Or, as pointed out earlier, that version of the diner scene, one where it was made more explicit that they're on the run, could have been filmed when JG had the different shirt on.

Thanks again for all the info, TV Blogger, it's all very interesting...

ETA: Info on the DVD release of Season Six, Part II:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7749

I thooght Carmela brought up birth control to reassure Tony that Meadow wasn't already pregnant -- he looked a bit concerned when she mentioned the doctor.

I thought the same thing. I guess my point is maybe Carmela doesn't even know Meadow's pregnant yet - that Meadow just found out herself. Again, this is nothing but speculation on my part and based partly on Meadow's expression as she ran toward the diner.

Celebrity sighting: the Queen of Wakanda met Steven R. Schrippa (Bobby Bacala) today! He was shopping at a Duane Reade drugstore in Downtown Manhattan. When he got to the cash register, the clerk apparently asked him for a "Club" discount card. He didn't have one, turned around to ask if anyone standing on line did, and borrowed a fellow shopper's card to complete his purchase. According to my significant other, neither the cashiers nor anybody else in the store seemed to recognize him! She told me that he appears much smaller than on television, although he does have a huge head. The Queen tells me that he's a very friendly, polite guy and smiled at her once she recognized him.

I'm hoping there is a bit more to that 6b DVD release. Unless they expand on them a bit, both the Cleaver and music featurettes have been available already on HBO or the internet. And the commentaries leave me a little disappointed as well. No Chase or Winter, no Gandolfini, Falco, or Imperioli, not even Sirico. It might be interesting to hear Van Zandt, but freakin' Carlo? It looks like they are really holding back for the big collector's edition in another 18 months. At least I hope that's the reason these extras are looking kind of weak.



As I touched on earlier, I had read something similar as part of the zillion "spoilers" that was on the web prior to and during this last run of episodes. If I remember correctly, Junior and Tony have one last emotional meeting, followed shortly afterward by Junior killing himself. In these rumors it even talks about a wake where Tony gives a speech about his uncle and Bobby (still alive at this point) is very emotional. That's the crux of what I heard, and I've pretty much chalked it up as being a figment of some "spoiler's" imagination. However, I'm not aware if anyone claiming to be involved with the show has said post-finale that scenes were shot and not used, like the alleged Paulie shooting.

Has anyone else seen the ad for the new series of Meerkat Manor? It's an homage to Sopranos ads.

Not exciting enough for me to purchase. I'd be just as happy with my DVDs I made off of OD.

My very first episode of The Sopranos was the first episode of season 6b, and am only now going through the beginning via DVDs for seasons one and two.

I'm at the second to last episode of season two, and am asking myself why it took me so long to get into the show.

I love the character of Livia, and wonder how different the show would have been had Nancy Marchand not died.

I have to say that i am really ticked about the DVD extras and there is no way I am buying the set. Commentary from Schirripa and AJ? who cares? The other extras seem to be the same that were already on HBO. How about a Terrence Winter commentary? I was not expecting one from Chase based upon his recent behavior (insulting fans at the Television Critics Awards). He won't throw us a bone with a commentary on the finale. He is "above" explaining it to die hard, loyal fans. Can you imagine the cash HBO could have made with a Chase commentary for the finale? I would not hold out hope that we will get new commentaries on some future complete series set. If you look at the Sopranos book that HBO released last March there is an interesting quote from Chase. He says he knows what happened to the Russian but refused to tell b/c "people got so pissy about it", so we know how spiteful he can be.
-As far as that alternate ending, I agree w/ many other posters that it doesnt make much sense. The scene really makes no sense if the family is on the lam. Why not just film at a different location if you are trying to show that they are hiding (i.e in another state). Would you still have the scene at Holstens in New Jersey? and why would the family be seperated if they are hiding and are on the lam (they all arrive at different times). Also, the whole idea that Little Carmine was taking Tony to Phil's to get killed has many problems. Why would Phil tell Little Carmine in front of Tony that "cooler heads prevailed"? (i.e he is calling off the hit). Why would he admit that to Tony if he calls the hit off? wouldnt Tony now have to retaliate? It makes no sense. Also, where exactly was Phil going to kill him? in Phil's house (his wife may not appreciate that!!) or outside in complete daylight on a suburban street? I think this story is the product of a low level HBO employee looking for attention.

clancy25 broke down the rumor exactly as I had heard it. And it was completely unsubstantiated as far as I'm aware. Which is why I was really mad when I realized that I had forgot to ask.



You don't actually move state to state when you're shooting a television series. You film in one place and say it's somewhere else. Them Hollywood folk is some tricky devils.

I don't really understand the question about "telling" Tony. He just sent him away from a sit down and cursed at him from the window. What are they going to go and get tea? War was declared when he didn't let Tony in the house.

Phil could kill him wherever they planned to have the sit down. I'm sure if Phil's wife (I don't even remember if he had one) is okay with having Butchie answer the door to a sit down between criminal conspirators, a murder isn't too far past her threshold.

The employee isn't low-level, he worked on the series for two years. Nor am I sure that being an anonymous source is the best way to get attention.