From TV Guide:

As Linc said, Money in escrow if anyone can tell me what's going on.

Beautiful.

I don't even care what's going on. While John convoes with Dad, everyone takes care of everyone else and Cissy almost smiles. Nice.

Well, I enjoyed it ... but I didn't understand it.....

I swear to God, when "Trixie" said something unintelligible and then followed it up with, "isn't that what I just fuckin' said?" I felt like we were back in the hardware store in Deadwood.

By-the-by, I made tuna today with Sissy's recipe and it was really good! (I never thought of adding lemon juice.)

I'm dying to know what is disturbing Cass so much about those tapes she's watching....

I wonder if the ep will make any more sense on future viewings.

Totally couldn't get the Link, Shaun's Mom connection.....

Confusedly yours,

DoodleDoo

What's next, will Ian McShane come out of the water? This show really makes me long for Deadwood 4.

John's Father is in the elephant cage.

Bill + Shaun = pure joyous TV

Stinkweed has $65 million for a golden parachute?

Nurse Barry!!!!

A very good stepping-stone episode. It looks like I've finally come around on Grayson Fletcher. He was very good in tonight's episode. I will let the smarter people deconstruct stuff that I missed.

...and Bill goes to the top of the stairs but still reluctant to face whatever happened with Lois?

Missed the surfing and loved getting it right off the bat.

Another Mitchless episode proves God does exist.

What's in the camera, Cass?

Wow, that was bland. No Milchifying, lotsa domestic stuff. No wonder these people get bored and fuck things up.

ETA: Rewatched and it works the second time. It's like wrapping myself in a blanket. BVH carries it from start to finish. Geez, this show is odd.

Damn, I gotta find me a hippie circle. That was trippy but very well done. In the word on the wall to come we can watch real life a second and third time to get it down like my DVD with its zeros and ones.

In Cass's camera to come TWoP is a hippie circle on the wall and all mankind can jump in and get wet from the HALO effect. - Sir Donald

This is absolutely the worst show HBO has ever done. I've given it chance after chance and in return I get garbage episode after episode. I hope somebody at HBO loses their job over this. Luckily, the ratings are horrible so we won't have to waste any more time with this show taking up a spot that a good show could have.

I really liked this episode, No, it's not Deadwood, but it gives me something to look forward to on Sunday nights again. The stick figure Dickstein drew in the drying concrete ...didn't John say something about that in his sermon at the motel?
I still don't understand the blackmailing thing with Linc, Tina and whomever. Can someone explain it to me?

The stick figure is the monad symbol that John draws.

Tina got an offer from Linc's partner to betray Linc, then reversed it by recording the transaction for Linc to use.

Don't know why either Tina or Linc would particularly choose to do that.

I'm not sure of Linc's business parter's name, so I'll just call him Zach. So Zach felt that Linc was hurting the company, so he wanted to get Linc to leave the company. So he gets Tina on tape talking about Linc doing a bunch of shady business dealings, like paying her to try to sway Shaun into signing a contract. Zach also pays Tina to lie about things like taking drugs. Zach plans on using this as a bargaining chip in case Linc doesn't want to be bought out. Tina, in turn, recorded Zach offering to pay her to lie about Linc. Linc then used his tape as collateral to increase his buyout by $30 million. Linc now is staying in Imperial Beach because he's now been taken with the events unfolding. Linc might've had more screentime in this episode than in all the previous ones combined.

Thanks! JFC fans are so helpful. Thanks a lot.

I loved it. I had tears in my eyes practically the whole time and I'm not even sure why. There was such a quiet. . . what. Unease, I guess. Like when Bill's book talked about helping to make someone at ease, this episode made me very uneasy and scared. Because they were all too calm, maybe? And John's furrowed brow and concern at the outset. Shaunie's sadness and breaking down at Bill's killed me. He must sense something "big and huge" is coming.

Kai looked so beautiful and peaceful.

There was a positive change in everyone since the sermon in the courtyard (except for Shaun anyway.)

Linc got back in the game by getting out of the game. He's on the John miracle train now, and maybe he'll help Cass make her film with the 65 million, like John told her to think a few episodes back.

Butchie is so over shooting smack. Is Cissy finally done screaming at and hating Butchie? She almost looked like she liked him and was happy to see him with Kai and going off to father Shaun. Butchie did not look uncomfortable around her either, for the first time since they held hands at the hospital. (I love all the hand holding. JFC has inspired me to hold hands with friends and loved ones more often.)

The halo effect, huh? There's more than one kind of halo, beyond business; I'm thinking about the military one and the holy one.

SirDonald. Ha!

My confusion is with the whole "boardroom" scene, the rants, the mooning!

All I can think is that we're not meant to understand it all, that the scene simply demonstrates how unstable Linc appears at this point--justifying his ouster from Stinkweed. Must rewatch with captions!

Next week looks very big, and course I won't be able to watch it til midweek!!



I was also very, very touched when he "fell" into Bill.



I loved the nonverbal exchange between them--there was a kindness, a sweetness about it that was such an obvious shift, yet portrayed with such subtlety.

I fail to see how a lousy four grand a month promised by Linc to Tina is such a brazen offense to a company with the cash to offer a $65 million buyout (an absurd sum to begin with).

Also, did Bruce Greenwood bail out or something? What's with a supposed main character getting no screen time in two consecutive episodes of a 10-episode run? Yeah, his character is annoying, but the disappearing act is just plain odd.

Which is maybe exactly the point. He's gotten them there, stirred them up and fucked with them and brought them together to the point where they can begin to see what the others are good for, and work in concert. Take a bunch of fucking misfit cocksuckers, who on their own might lead themselves to ruin and destruction, and who might at first glance have little reason to like one another and less reason to even relate to one another, and at the end ... you have a family. Building something. Making repairs. Riding the waves, healing the sick, serving one another juice. Finding their tap shoes, like Fred Astaire. That your gifts are nothing if you don't share them.

I'd love to sit down with Milch, a bottle of whiskey, and talk religion all night. Is that God to him, people making their own purpose in the world, being helped along by something that brings them together? Is that what it all means to him? I keep going back to Deadwood, re-evaluating in light of this much more blatant retelling. "Whatever lies ahead, grievous abominations and disorder, you and I walk into it together, like always." Maybe that's God. I could love that, that's for sure.

Kai looked gorgeous this ep. And that she saved Butchie's boards, hid them before he could sell them, that choked me up. The love Butchie didn't know he had, all this time.

"Cause the big money is staying in escrow for whoever can tell me what the fuck is going on." -- I think Linc just summed up how all of us are feeling!

When Kai arrived at her friend's to pick up Butchie's boards, she had her arms wrapped around herself *exactly* the way Butchie does when he's upset about something. After fifteen years of waiting for him to come around, I guess it paid off.

I can't decide who broke my heart more, Butchie or Shaun. The kid has the biggest, purest heart, and Greyson Fletcher's acting was spot on tonight. For all the complaints he racks up, he was totally on point and the perfect teenager learning the hardest of life's lessons first hand: that it isn't perfect and it isn't easy and sometimes all you can do is survive. Just like his Grams. For about the millionth time, tonight's episode reminded me of that famous Frost quote: "In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on."

The surfing scenes were either shot the same day as the ending scenes of the pilot episode, or the footage was recycled, or Brian Van Holt makes the exact same expression every time he's paddling into a wave. Impressive. Either way, much thanks for surfing scenes. It was a nice reminder that the show is about more than werid religious allegories. Also, the ending scene was eerie, and practically identical to the closing scenes of Episode One: the lighting, the outsider watching from the beach, and three figures on the shore watching the waves, only in Episode One, John Butchie, and Shaun were in the water with Cissy/Bill/Mitch watching them.

John is creeping me out, and not just because he'll make me cry if something actually happens to Shaun, but because I don't think he was actually with Shaun and Butchie at the beach. Neither of them reacted to him, and none of the bystanders seemed to notice the sudden appearance of a third party. So I now think John isn't the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost, but perhaps whichever one he needs to be any given moment. Butchie certainly isn't God, but at the same time everyone else seems to live in his world: Cissy self-flagellates because of what she did to him; Shaun is alive because he made him; Kai is in love with him; Bill is Shaun's protector because Butchie carried Lois' groceries; Freddy is his drug dealer and Palaka is his lackey; the three Amigos are involved with his hotel; Linc is involved with the family because of him. The list goes on an on. Perhaps in this case, Butchie is our Father, Shaun his ressurected Son, and John is the Holy Ghost between them.



Seriously! The cadence of her speech, the dialogue itself, and the accent? It was like watching a Hippie Trixie! I don't have the same issues with Dayton Callie though. Freddy might share similarities with Charlie Utter, but his speech patterns and body language are different and it's easier to separate the characters.

I'm sorry to report that I was bored to death with this episode. I stopped watching after the boardroom scene. I think I'm finished tuning in.

Agreed, Lucille and Athenae. I was choked up when Kai went to get Butchie's boards; then Butchie not-getting-high, Butchie letting Kai SEE that he copped but didn't get high, being vulnerable for her. And his joy and wonderment at Kai caring enough about him, always, since always, to take his boards and protect them and keep them safe, knowing he'd come around. That he'd want them back again someday. Or maybe she was just hoping. Blindly believing in him; having faith. And Cissy seeing the two of them together, and seeing them going to take care of Shaunie. Seeing Cissy realize that maybe she didn't ruin Butchie after all, that maybe there's hope. Linc and Tina, the jaded and cynical pair, watching Butchie and Shaunie going out to surf together. Everyone healing, everything coming together and coming right. Butchie heals, Shaunie heals, Palaka, Cissy, Linc. Everyone.

Milch instructs us to watch what they do, not what they say, for what that's worth. But yeah. I think at least the whole ship analogy is worth a second look. He definitely looks unstable from a business perspective.

I think Linc knew he was out of his own company from the get-go, and that the meeting was a sham and a waste of time. (Remember how he was staring into the retail store with the Stinkweed line? He looked pretty crest-fallen, as I recall) May as well have your say to the ones you brought along, who are watching you get buried but don't have the guts or integrity to tell you what's what.

Ted Mann (the Shit-Disturber from Deadwood) had his name in the end credits, so he was someone in this episode, but I can't figure out who. Maybe one of the folks in the hotel meeting room? Anybody recognize the Shit-Disturber in modern guise tonight?

He's mainly a writer-producer on the show (as he was on Deadwood).

It's Milch-speech. Like last week, when John and Joe and Bill were in Bill's house, and John first did his impression of Lois. Bill said, "You are on very thin ice," then Joe asked, if he might smoke herb in the house or if not, on the patio, while Bill continued to rant about how he might rather put John's head through it and hold him there until he drowned...Joe caught on and said, "The ice?"

Same way, the phrase "halo effect" was used two different ways by different people within 20 minutes of the show, to the one person who heard them each say it. Dwayne said about the Yost website, "Shaun's (win and death) had a halo effect", creating more hits. Dickstein said about the hold-harmless papers drawn up by the hospital, "Usually, they have a halo effect, for the doctor, but in this case..." (they are cutting him loose and letting Cissy sue him rather than them, as he resigned).

"Trixie" heard the phrase used both times and thought she caught on, and said, "The halo effect?"

I do love that Milch has caught, like a firefly in a jar, this trick of people's trying to follow other people's train of thought and speech, and trying to catch up with the phrase that snagged their attention.

Was he the hospital's attorney? Wasn't that guy on Deadwood?

The hospital attorney was the guy who played Commissioner Jarry

No, the hospital attorney was played by Stephen Tobolowsky, who played Commissioner Jarre on Deadwood. This is just a guess here, but I think Ted Mann might've played that guy in the booth where Shaun was smoking the joint. He had a couple of brief exchanges with Butchie.

Riiiight. And wasn't he also recently the mayor of beverly hills on Entourage?

About damn time there was some surfing.

Sometimes I get the feeling this show just isn't for everybody. I think it helps if you have some residual shame about your flooring.

I loved how Dickstein didn't know why he was writing it into cement at the Snug. I guess that's just part of not remembering the events of the sermon but a way it'll be remembered.

What I can take away from it is the fragility of doing good. The sequence that ended up with Butchie and Shaunie going surfing could have been derailed a hundred ways by a dozen people from morning to afternoon.

Interesting that Charlie Utter really can see John. As he keeps refering to John as a shapeshifter it would be interesing to see John as Freddie sees him. It does seem to be is that everyone is moving towards some common purpose that none fo them are aware of.

The fact that I'm not able to turn away from this trainwreck of a show is a symptom of personal shortcomings. I felt deep remorse watching Luke Perry in the boardroom, realizing that no matter how pointless this show became I couldn't let go. Because I cling to the hope that Al Swearengen will materialize. Failing that, nothing short of the abrupt cancellation of this show will serve to make matters right.

Exactly, sleepy33; "In Cass' camera, Butchie knows Kai has kept the faith"

In the past two episodes Cass seems like she is in a trance. Did I miss something? Last week she acted really strange in the room and then she went to the cookout. Everyone else seems pretty recovered from the cookout, but Cass still seems like a zombie. I wish we would see what is on that footage she took of her day out with John.

When Shaun and Butchie were on the beach and John was next to them; that internet geeky guy was watching and I had the feeling he could see John. I don't think anyone else could.

I watched expecting a continuation of last weeks ep, so of course I was irked when once again it was startling and strange. Every episode demands a second watching to feel like I've grasped a bit of its gist. And upon watching every episode the second time I feel uplifted.

When John joined Butchie and Shaun on the beach, they paid him no mind but the moment John appeared Linc offered his buyout money just to know what's going on. Last week taught us John can project himself and when he said they won't note what was said but they would not forget it showed he can choose to project into their consciousness or just their subconscious. So I think Linc was conscious of John when Butchie and Shaun weren't.

Maybe what drove Cass nuts was that she couldn't see God in her film, but she felt it was there. When John came back from seeing his Father, Cass could see it too.

I liked it. A few questions though.

Didn't Bill smoke "reefer" w/ Vietnam Joe (and maybe John, offscreen?) on that lil stake out last episode? He def. looked high, and maybe some bragging comment about having smoked alot in his day, so why would he be such a hypocrite to Shaunie about weed?

What is up with that footage Cass shot?

What is up with that big circular "area" (i have no idea what to call it) that John spent at least 50% of this episode (in quick, second-long scenes) staring at? (He's stared at this thing many times before, including one real weird time at the start of an episode where he appeared at varying lengths from this thing in split seconds). This is obviously going to play some part in whatever is going to happen.
- Also, John seemed so sad in his first scene, talking to Cass. And, looks like Shaunie is going to die, and prolly stay dead this time. Or it's a red-herring.

- Did anyone else notice how Linc and Mark Paul Gossalor's characters were visually identical? The clothing, the hair, etc. Nice touch.

That's funny - I had just watched Deadwood season 3-10 (I didn't catch the original run; such an amazing series), where Jarry came in from Yankton. So it was kind of amusing to see him as another annoying attourney-like figure here.

Anyways, my thoughts ... I'm really trying to stick with the show. I mean it is Milch and all. But for all the positive attributes in the show, there's always so many other negatives holding it back. Let's look at this episode, with the "positives" first: I loved John's little soliloquy in the beginning; it got me so pumped for what was going to come next! Then, we get absolutely no payoff whatsoever, just him looking at the sunset repeatedly. I also found Shaun's scene with Bill rather touching.

On the other hand, here are my beefs. First, I simply cannot find entertainment or relate in characters who absolutely abhor each other, are angry and cussing each other out, and generally have no purpose in life whatsoever (see Cissy or Butchie). It's like Trixie but a hundred times worse, and even she would have some touching, human moments with Sol on occasion. Second, the Milch dialogue, while clever, is not working very well at all in the modern setting imo. I don't have a rational reason for it besides the dialogue (and delivery) sounding rather mean-spirited in tone. Third, I am over the anti-gay slurs and stereotypes, like Shaun calling Dwayne a tool, or Barry's rather steotypical "gay" behavior. Being gay, I'm a little sensitive about it, but I find it as more of a discredit to Milch's script-writing, in that he can't utilize more original writing, and it certainly doesn't leave me entertained or amused.

Of course this is all my opinion of the show. Despite all these negative aspects, something is keeping me watching (barely...). But I was deeply disappointed that we didn't see a revelation with John tonight.

I took it as a tough love fatherly lecture, so I didn't mind. Bill probably wouldn't want Shaun to learn of his little outing the day before. ;) I think Bill was bluffing when he boasted about smoking weed and that was really his first joint. Just the vibe I felt mind you. At any rate, we've all been hypocritical at one point or another. I've been guilty of that when I wanted to protect someone, especially a child. ("Just because I did that, doesn't mean YOU can.") Glad (and very impressed) that Bill comforted Shaun first and waited on mentioning the pot until the right time. Also, was that the first time we've seen this poor kid get a real hug on this show? Notice how it wasn't from Dad, Gram or Gramps.


Wondering that myself. You know what though? Seeing Cass so happy makes me smile.

I noticed that this episode was directed by a Six Feet Under alumni. Yay.


Call me stupid, I had no idea that "tool" was an anti-gay slur mbird. Learn something new everyday sadly. :(

That may foreshadow "Shaun will soon be gone" will be used in a different way than it was in ep 1.

Adding to my last post about watching episodes twice, it occurs to me that with HBO rerunning episodes all week and making them available On Demand there's no longer the necessity for a show to be understood the first viewing. Milch doesn't have to be obvious and redundant like every other show, because it's so easy for us to watch it again. Same thing here at this forum, another way to grasp the show. Maybe this will start a trend.

I always interpreted it as that ... but you're post actually made me do some quick google research hehe ; ). Here's what I found: It basically means that someone is an idiot/dumb and used maliciously, sometimes as a proxy for someone else's bad intentions. It is also a slang for "penis," basically someone calling someone else a dick. I guess it isn't really an anti-gay slur, though I could see it used that way perhaps. Thanks for responding and getting me motivated to find out. I learn something new everyday : )

I really like this show, although I'm not entirely sure why. Kai is awesome. Shaun was great this episode.

About the golden parachute, I looked up the business stats on Quiksilver, and they're a $1.67 billion company. I imagine Stinkweed is around the same size.

Thank you Sleepy for such a brilliant summary in so few words! I got all those things too but couldn't quite articulate it. Though I'm a jaded bastard at this point in life the scene when Shaunie broke down nearly ripped the heart from my cold dead chest. He did a great job for a beginner and that had some kind of multiplier effect because it was dead on target. There were so many of those moments, some fleeting, like that cracked half-smile on Cissy when she saw her son step up, that I'm afraid to watch the ep again. I might actually have to break down and have a good cry.........nah. Fuck that.

In Cass's camera to come grown men who've spent a lifetime motivated by righteous anger become petrified to acknowledge that they too might have tender feelings - SD

A lot of tough characters both male and female are finding their cynicism challenged by simple wonder. I hated John's references to Shaun not having much longer. The kids what pulled us and the characters in. I don't know whats in Cass' camera but it's wondrous and terrible and somehow bears testimony that this all really happened, in Milchland, anyway.

That sounds like a good guess, lynch. Thanks. If I do a re-watch, I'll try to confirm that for myself.

As Butchie, Shaun and John trotted off into the surf at the end, I started singing: And the three men I admire most / The Father, Son and Holy Ghost / they caught the last train for the coast / the day the music died.

Gee, I don't know why that particular line would pop into my head....:)

I thought for a brief, hopeful second, Dr. Smith and Freddy would get into it, as a reprise of Utter v. Wolcott. That was an ass-kicking, my friends.

Except for Ed O'Neill (about whom Mr. Sobell's praises are, if anything, insufficient), I'm losing interest.

I'm 99% certain he is indeed the shit-stirrer from Deadwood.

For me the moment that nearly made me cry was Shaun's caress of the back of his father's head after Butchie invited him to slap in the back of the head. It was such a tender gesture, full of forgiveness, not just for the slap Butchie had administered to Shaun earlier, but for a lifetime of lousy fathering. It's incredible to me how this kid could have lived the life he did and not be a festering wound of resentment.