Calling all pedal-philes! (sorry)

The most arduous sporting event in the world is back.

Begins today with one of the tour`s frequent visits to foreign parts.

An 8 km prologue time trial around central London today, Stage 1 Greenwich - Canterbury tomorrow. Finishing with the usual procession into Paris on 29 July.

As usual, there`s the usual shambles with drugs, many of the teams have refused to sign up to an anti-doping charter, and Alessandro Petacchi has been suspended for failing a dope test.

Possible winners this year? Can`t really look past Alexander Vinokourov, Andreas Kloden, or Alejandro Valverde ,who probably has age on his side.

I'll probably end up watching who's on the leaderboard and start going...

OK, he's doping, he's probably doping, doping, not doping, doping, doping....

Might be a fun game to play...guess who's on drugs!

Yesterday's sprint finish with Fab to the line. Wow!!
What I truly love about the Tour is the great commentary. Its a knowledgeable, witty, group of guys who really know a turn of phrase or two. I can't wait for the "suitcase of pain."

Funny, I've been doing that with baseball, basketball and football for years!

Oh, and Le Tour sont ici??? = The Tour are here.

Ouch!

Because grammar matters in every language, how about changing the topic to "Le Tour est arrivé"?

Perhaps Bob Roll of the Tour de Fraaaaaance named the forum?

And I believe Vino had a collision with the suitcase of pain today.

Has anyone else had problems with the videos on versus.com? I tried to watch some of the post-race interviews today and had no luck getting any of them to load. Is anyone watching this?

I've been biking again for the first time after a bad accident some years ago, so I watch to see people who are having a worse time than I am!

Seriously, I've been following the sport since the LeMond days - even got to catch Le Tour in France once, and once I get past Roll's pronunciation of Fraaaaaaance the Versus coverage isn't that bad. Yeah, it could be better, but it's better than nothing.

Being a connoisseur of falls: I'm surprised Vino's even riding after yesterday's fall. Ouch!

I'm not that familiar with past Tours (started watching two years ago) but doesn't this year's Tour seem to be crash city? I really felt for Rogers on today's stage.

There usually are quite a few crashes in the first week, but this is one of the more crash-tastic years, I'd say, with a lot of bad luck. Michael Rogers broke my heart yesterday: I wonder, if they'd known it was a dislocated shoulder, if they could have popped it back in and he could have kept on going?

Did anyone have no sound for a couple of days on Versus? Today I hope to catch up with my DVR'd coverage, but know that for a good amount of yesterday and the day before, there was no sound. Anyone else?

We had sound, OopsSorry. The only technical problem we're having is the satellite picture break-up that everyone's getting.

Tough luck for the Aussies this year. Michael Rogers (who we saw retire) and Stuart O'Grady who apparently had a horrible crash and was shown being loaded into an ambulance. Multiple broken ribs forced his retirement. Robbie McEwen went out Sunday on time. Cadel Evans is their last hope (though not a bad horse to back at all).

Go Levi!

Thanks, TraceyBee. Comcast Chicago swore it was nationwide and a problem with Versus, not their system. I now have a bit of evidence to the contrary!

Those crashes yesterday in the rainy time trial were very difficult to watch. Poor Cancellara.

Anyone know why Phil and Paul are sooo into Levi Leipheimer? I love these two to death, but the seemingly-unfounded plugs are annoying.

I think that is encouraged by the higher ups at Versus. American cycling fans apparently need to know that even though Lance is gone there is an American in contention or they won't tune in. Or so the producers of televised sporting events seem to think. There is some truth to that I'm sure. I think the French are doing the same to some extent based on the footage shown. I'm Canadian and don't have a countryman to cheer for but I don't care I just want to watch the race.

Phil and Paul have probably been told to do "Levi Watch" to keep people interested. It has been a bit annoying when Levi or Chris Horner are interviewed over and over again before they get to the stage winner or jersey wearers. They are interesting guys but mix it up a little for crying out loud. There are so many other guys who may never get a stage or a jersey who still do great things I'd like to here from (lead out men for sprinters for instance - that's a skill right there). I do think that now that Levi is top 5 the attention is more justified.

I agree--a bit much with Leipheimer. And it was kind of annoying to me that they didn't have anyone to interview Contador after his stage win, saying some day they would interview him--when his English gets better. Versus can't hire a Spanish-speaking interviewer? It was a departure from some of the over-coverage of Team Discovery. I know they are trying to appeal to the American audience and they have done some impressive rides but I feel like if we knew more about some of the other riders the race would be more exciting. I was pleased this weekend they finally seemed to have interviews of Rasmussen. And I wish they would have more behind-the-scenes type coverage talking about how cyclists train, how teams develop their strategies, how long it took Phil to come up with the phrase "ride of fire," etc.

I am a little surprised at how little the Versus coverage talks about doping scandals. There has been little discussion of the Landis affair and I haven't noticed any discussion of the Rasmussen controversy this year, though I may have missed it. I appreciate that they do really focus on the racing but it seems like they need more commentary and backstory.

Interesting. Our coverage over here in the UK uses the same commentators for the stages, but obviously everything around the actual footage is different. We have an interviewer guy on the ground called Ned Boulting (that might be spelt incorrectly) who apparently can speak about 7 languages and effortlessly switched to Spanish to interview one of the key players tonight (probably Contador). He also managed to turn a 'no comment' from Rasmussen into something resembling a denial.

Much of the conclusion to the show tonight was about the Rasmussen situation and interviewing various guys about what they thought about it. I find it amusing that David Millar is now considered something of an 'expert' because he got caught cheating and has now come back onto the tour. It's understandable, but it's like - "David, you were a lying, cheating bastard who screwed the world of cycling by cheating your way to any success you ever had. How do you feel this latest scandal is affecting the Tour?"

What was the general consensus about the Rasmussen situation? It seems like a bit of a tempest in a teapot to me. He screwed up and was punished for it and so far hasn't had a positive drug test, just a tendency to thumb his nose at authority. That whole mountain biker and the shoebox story is off the wall but still just talk right now. What gets me is the timing of the announcement. He got in trouble back in June which is when it should of hit the press. It's hard not to see the timing as payback for not following the rules and not being sufficiently repentent about messing up. Drama, drama, drama.

I really don't think there was a consensus. When they interviewed the commentators, they were torn between suggesting Rasmussen was bringing the sport into further bad repute, and questioning why it wasn't leaked until he was in yellow. They were pretty negative though, one said it felt like 98 with raids, depression etc. When Boulting interviewed Rasmussen himself, and he (rather wafflingly) said the shoebox story wasn't true, Boulting said he could have saved us all a lot of bother and speculation if he'd only said that earlier. The cyclists interviewed had all just come off hours of racing. A few of them said if he's done it, he should be out right now, and seemed fairly pissed off. Cadel Evans said he didn't give a dayum. Millar did the same drugs-are-bad speech, but ended up saying it was good for cycling because it shows the testing system just doesn't work and needs to be changed. And Robbie Hunter did a nice, strong interview saying Rasmussen hadn't been caught doing anything wrong (ie there's a reason 2 misses doesn't equal a positive) and the pack of journalists should just calm down, sit back and watch the racing, which is what it's all about. I think they're all getting a bit sick of riding hard all day than being mobbed by people who don't ask them anything about the race and just go on about drugs...

The UCI seems to have handled this terribly. Why is all of this coming out during the Tour if the second missed test was in June? And the UCI is saying now that maybe Rasmussen shouldn't be racing, even though they knew about the missed tests before the Tour started. And then making statements that they hope he doesn't win? And then backtracking. They really seem to have no idea what they're doing and have absolutely no idea how to manage damage control.

I'm not sure how reliable this is but I read in VeloNews that Richards (the mountain biker claiming to have been asked by Rasmussen to transport doping materials) talked to a reporter in 2002 but because he wanted to remain anonymous the story never ran, though it did show up in "From Lance to Landis" by David Walsh. If this is true it does make the story more convincing, though I suppose it doesn't say anything about whether he is doping now. And I don't know what doping tool would allow him to stay miraculously upright during a time trial.

I agree that this year's Tour has been really exciting but totally overshadowed by the fact that all anyone in the media wants to talk about is doping. It's a shame.

Thanks for the tip on Boulting's interviews, Richyyy, I've found some of them online. I wish Versus would air them. I wonder what their logic is behind not airing them? This is an English-only Tour day France? Hee!

I knew it, I fucking knew it. *shakes head*

The Dutch news is reporting that L'Equipe is saying(yeah I know, I know lol) that Vinokourov tested positive on bood doping.

I'm Dutch and had a hard time to translate this properly, so I hope that makes any sense

edited to add that the reports are also saying that he and his team have left the Tour.

The entire team? That takes out Kloden and Kasechkin, 5th and 8th respectively in the GC, and the #1 team. This would mean an almost-certain victory for Discovery Channel in the team competition.

A little more info, he tested positive after the time trial on saturday. Accoding to L'Equipe he had a blood transfusion shortly before the time trial.

Yes, that's what I'm reading, the whole team left the Tour

Well, damn it. This is my first year watching the Tour (or even being remotely interested in cycling), so I'm completely in the dark here. Does this mean anything for Vinokourov's stage victory yesterday? Are they (and I'm not even sure who 'they' are...) going to take it away from him?

After all the hoops are jumped through (hearings and such), almost certainly.

actual news reports: BBC and ESPN

I realize this is strange, and I am disappointed by the people who have been doping, but for some reason, it does not seem to affect my enjoyment of the race. In reality, on an intellectual level, I suppose, I recognize the significant health risks that doping presents, and that it needs to be policed, but somehow or another, perhaps through a cynicism that has now seeped all the way into my bones, I expect that everyone is doping, and that in addition to losing riders through illness, accident and exhaustion, we now have to speculate about attrition through testing as one of the key elements of the race. I was impressed with Vinokourov yesterday, but that time trial really did make me wonder.

Does anyone else think that T-Mobile has figured in the center of a lot of what is going on with all of the doping mess? Vino is a former T-Mobile rider, Sinkewitz is current T-Mobile, Ulrich was T-Mobile, and I would bet money that Kloden will test positive at some point. Not to forget Sevilla also getting into the mess last year. Did Landis ever ride for T-Mobile?

Honestly? No. I think all teams use, a lot of Armstrongs former teammates either tested positive or admitted to taking doping. Team CSC anyone? The team formerly known as Mapei, they were head and shoulders above the rest in the mid/late '90's, I doubt that they were clean. Musseeuw admitted to taking doping. I believe the problem is much deeper than just one team. YMMV of course and it doesn't help that I've gotten incredibly jaded through the years.

I still enjoy watching sports oddly enough.

Its not really affecting me either except my favorites being out, Ivan Basso and Vino. I still want Rasmussen to go out there and win it. I think cycling is the only sport where I am/wouldnt be up in arms about drug usage. But I am completely bothered that it doesnt bother me more.

I kinda think that too, why else would the whole team pull out of the comp, they were probably afraid they all would get exposed.

Reportedly the Tour organisation asked the team to leave,they didn't go voluntarily.

That makes more sense.

Holy cheet! I better go check the blogs when I'm done here. Just wanted to quickly address this:



I think Discovery was already #1 team. They were in yellow during yesterday's ride and had 3 in the top 10 again (and higher up in the GC than Astana's 3).

Noooooo!! Not Vino too!!! I love him.

I was believing in Rassy's innocence until proven guilty but he's most likely doping too. Oscar Perreiro is my last hope.

I only started watching cycling in 2004 because of Lance (who's doped too I'm sure). I'm at the point now that I realize everyone is doping. So what's the big deal? They all should be pretty much even then.

Or maybe they just need to dissolve the sport of cycling all together. Or at least say, if you get caught doping even once you're out of cycling for good.

Astana was a couple minutes ahead today I think.

that is correct. The top 3 after stage 15 were:
Astana 209h 52.24
Discovery at 2.53
CSC at 15.01

I tend to agree. I guess it ruins my enjoyment of the race only in the sense that the doping thing receives so much attention. And while Vino may have been doping (probably was doping) his time trial was still pretty thrilling as was his second stage win, though his uneven performance obviously raised red flags. And from what I've read, blood doping is hard to prove definitively and the studies on the effectiveness of the tests are still questionable.



I wonder if, to some extent, we are seeing cyclists hitting the outer limits of the capabilities of the human body, leading to the inevitable search for "artificial" boosts? This seems to be happening in some track events, as well, where it seems like pretty much every sprinter is under suspicion. I've read so much about the flawed systems of testing, etc. Maybe the target ought to be the doctors rather than the athletes (or in addition to?). The doping thing broke wide open in the states with the bust of the Balco lab. I have no idea how that would work so this is pure armchair speculation.

On the front page of Versus they have a shocked and appalled letter from Phil Liggett in which he refers to reformed drug taker David Millar which seems a somewhat charitable assumption. Eh, I guess I'm a cynic, too.

The scandals don't spoil my enjoyment of the sport either. I just feel a bit annoyed because I know the media are going to run amok. Last time I checked cycling wasn't the only sport with issues about drugs but I don't remember people talking about banning track and field or swimming from the Olympics or cancelling major events in those sports.

I'm glad they are doing the work to fix this and I think we are going to have a couple more years of doping issues at least before the tide turns. There are way too many cooks in this particular kitchen and they all want to get the attention. A little co-operation would go a long way to clean up this mess and create a system that the majority of athletes and their teams are going to totally buy into. Right now it feels like an 18th century royal court where people were playing fast and loose with the rules to get ahead or would manouever to destroy anyone who crossed them.

I really would like to know what motivates cyclists to still dope in this day and age when they know they are being monitored and any success gets them a date with the drug testers. Do they not care? Is the pressure to succeed so high that they are willing to risk it? Vino doesn't strike me as a stupid man so why would he do something that is supposedly so easy to detect? Very odd.

As for Lance Armstrong, I'm very hesitant to say he doped up. He went through cancer treatment and had all of those chemicals pumped into him just to get well. Why would you want to risk your health and the possibility of getting sick again? Armstrong was such a tactical rider with a tactical team that his victories were just as much a result of intelligence as they were of physical ability. As much as his constant success took the suspense out of the yellow jersey race for me I respected his abilities as a racer. Who knows?

Given that the riders that finished around Lance in the last few years: Ulrich, Basso, Vino, etc. have all cheated and that so many of Lance's former teammates have been caught cheating (Landis, Heras, etc.) it seems very likely that Lance cheated too. You have to believe that a) even an undoped Armstrong was so clearly superior to the doped 2nd, 3rd and 4th best riders in the world and that b) his teams had a culture of doping, but somehow the guy it all revolved around didn't dope.

This doesn't even get into the "doctors" that Armstrong worked with or the testimony that indicated that he told his cancer doctors about his doping. As for the cancer, I could see that working the other way - you had cancer, you faced death, you'd want to live in the now and do whatever it took.

Versus' coverage is abysmal. Their recap this evening didn't even cover the Astana withdrawal. I think that was big enough news to warrant taping a few new segments.

Not to mention that Armstrong was an entirely different type of rider before the cancer. He was more of a one day event kinda guy and came back after the cancer as a multi week event rider, which is a big difference. It's absolutely great that he beat cancer, but I don't believe for a minute that he was clean, also for the reasons stated by krispywi

Like I said before, I've gotten very jaded through the years.

Too bad about Vino. I was rooting for Andreas Klöden. I don't care when or why the info came out now. Rasmussen missed those tests on purpose so he is likely doping also. Maybe Contador can pull out a victory. He is an exciting young rider.

I agree wtih krispywi and jolanda. I don't believe for a second that Armstrong didn't dope. Having cancer doesn't mean anything. He survived and was determined to do whatever it took to achieve his life's dream of winning the Tour. Armstrong clearly became a different rider after the cancer which suggests that he did something. He was a single hitter and became the home run king after remission which simply does not happen without help. Armstrong's passionate defense of Dr. Michele Ferrari combined with the fact that almost every single one of his former teammates have been caught is more than enough circumstantial evidence, imo. I don't hold the doping against Armstrong though. All those guys were cheating. He just was best at it. What I do hold against him is his threats against others who talked about his doping.

I think maybe we need to rename this thread: "Le Tour est Icky".

I will admit right off the bat that about 30% of the reason I watch the tour coverage is for the gorgeous scenery. But I find myself aligned with those who are not all that worked up about who is or is not doping. When you think about what it is they are doing, riding five - six hours a day, seeking an extra edge just isn't that unbelievable. Doesn't make it right, but not at all hard to believe.

I am also one who thinks Armstrong probably doped, just like I believe that many players beyond Barry Bonds took/take steroids. I guess until those on the inside are willing to turn against the "fraternity" mindset of not ratting out their "brothers" there will always be doubt; for me anyway. Turning a blind eye is just as much a form of cheating as those who are breaking the rules. What is that saying, "If you lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas."

What seems a shame is that other forms of cycling, like track cycling, are probably being tainted along with road cycling. And in track it seems like it is mostly the sprinters who are getting in trouble, perhaps because that is the highest profile event. I am not familiar with doping scandals in swimming, besides the East German women back in the '70's(?). But is there any money to be made in swimming, unless you are a Michael Phelps? I never see it on T.V. outside of the Olympics, so I guess doping in swimming would not make much news here in the U.S.

It is kind of ironic that Lance Armstrong made the Tour more well known here in the U.S. and if it wasn't for that Versus probably would not be covering it and the scandals would not even be registering here.

It's very weird to watch the Versus recap of the tour on rest day with no mention whatsoever of today's revelations. I wonder if the commentators are gnashing their teeth in frustration that they can't get on the air and discuss this. It can't have been their decision to not tape anything additional. Maybe it's an issue of the union cameramen demanding a day off or something. That would be very European.

Anyway, I've now become just pessimistic enough to think no amount of testing is going to really clean up this sport. Maybe they should just give up and accept that drug-taking is part of the physical challenge of the sport. I'm pretty sure that no amount of drugs could transform me into the athlete these guys are. If they want to play with their health, maybe it's none of our business. It must be horrible to be a cyclist and constantly live a lie--the toll the lying and hiding would take on you would be crazy-making.

The rest-day round-up in the UK started with a statement that the Astana withdrawal happened after taping, so they were going to play it anyway, then at the end Boardman and Imlach, I think it was, phoned in some commentary on the day's events over footage of Vino in the tour this year.



It's so similar to what Landis did last year, it feels like sheer desperation. To have put so much work into getting the best form of your career, and then to see it all slipping away: particularly galling if it's from a crash rather than a stronger rival. These cyclists push themselves so hard to do something virtually physically impossible, year after year, the temptation to give yourself a little edge must be overwhelming. Like Tyler Hamilton, he went through agony riding through races with all those broken bones, grinding his teeth away. I find it hard to get that upset about giving himself a little help to keep pushing himself along the road. They are already outstanding athletes in a world where drugs are rife in every sport. I can see that it detracts from the romance of it, but I think it's very understandable.

I'm imagining a jersey ceremony in which the athletes step up on the podium with their doctors who get their very own stuffed lions. Or a polka dot lab coat.

I think doping is rather dangerous, though I don't know if it would be made safer in regulated form rather than athletes and their doctors continually seeking out new and undetectable ways to dope. I know there were a few deaths from EPO usage but does anyone know if there have been overall patterns of health problems like those surfacing in pro wrestling or pro football?

I can understand the allure of doping. In particular, Landis last year was looking at a hip surgery that could end his cycling career and a Tour in which many of the favorites had been knocked out. I would imagine that the earning potential of a Tour winner is dramatically different than that of domestique for Lance Armstrong. I would guess that most cyclists dope out of a belief (and perhaps knowledge) that others are doing it and the fact that a lot of cyclists have gotten away with it.

The Versus coverage yesterday was surreal. They'll have to address it today, right? They need more pre and post coverage.

Versus did that as well, with a crawl on the bottom of the screen stating what was going on and that they'd have full coverage of it on today's stage.

I'd talk about what they said when they opened the stage today but since it's still running live I'll wait.

Count me in the "I'm bugged about the doping but it won't effect my enjoyment of the rest of the tour too much" group. With any sport I think it would really bug me but cycling not so much and I'm not sure why.

ETA: Also color me disappointed but not at all surprised that I couldn't find any actual coverage of this whole fiasco on ESPN's SportsCenter when I caught part of it this morning. Unless they covered it in the first ten minutes I missed, which I doubt given Bonds, Vick and the NBA scandals, I don't think it was even mentioned outside of the ever so popular bottom of the screen crawl you see everywhere now days. I guess I need to file that under the "if it's not about Americans it's not happening" mentality. US Sports Coverage is just so annoying most of the time.

I feel terribly naive, as I'm feeling kind of crushed about the doping. My heart was in this all for Vino this Tour, and it's awful to have been so elated at his triumphs, only to be so disappointed at the recent news. I have perhaps an antithetical response to all the doping: I try hard not to believe the tests! It's pathetic, I realize, but I'm still holding out hope that Landis's appeal will prove a conspiracy against him and his long-awaited innocence.

I'm kind of joking, except there is a seed of hope and disbelief. I just can't believe that the riders would attempt to hope to get away with it. I'm still in denial about Basso, and cannot even begin to consider that Armstrong had any of this going on.

And because I really want the incredible athleticism of what these riders do to retain the respect it deserves, I agree that a more thorough analysis of the situation - rather than the judgment and scorn - would be helpful for me. If it is really as rampant as it would seem, what about these events could be preserved without pushing the human capacity beyond its limit?

I don't understand the denial, especially about Basso who I adore as a rider. The Spanish authorities caught him red handed. Basso accepted his ban. What is there to deny? These guys all cheat including Armstrong and the even more obvious Landis. The xenophobia embedded in blaming the French and the French lab for the positive tests of these riders has got to be over or cycling will never regain its glory days.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news again, but L'Equipe is reporting another positive test,this time on testosteron. No name yet, the UCI will release the name later today. It happened after Stage 11, the stage Robert Hunter won. Except him, Zabel, Kirchen, Jegou, Moreni, Vila Errandonea, Iglinski en Rasmussen also were tested that day.


It's so easy to blame the French, everything is their fault, especially when it's concerning American riders(YMMV of course). I do think that the Tour direction is using a double standard when it comes to positive tests or riders admitting the took doping. If it's a foreigner(Riis and Ullrich for instance) they take away the jersey(for the retired ones) they won or won't let the rider/their team compete(Ullrich), while if it's a French team or rider they tend to do nothing(Virenque anyone).

I'm getting at the point that I think they should just dump all doping rules, let them all dope up, let doctors run it and let riders mess up their body is that's what they want. I don't think doping will ever go away, the testing labs will get smarter, but the doctors treating the riders will continue to get smarter as well.

I must be living in naive land or something. I just wasn't expecting the tour to go down this way. Especially after the Landis fiasco of last year.

I mean I'm not totally naive. I know there's doping. I guess I just didn't expect the more experienced riders to be so brazen and get caught out on it. Of course in Vino's case he probably thought he wouldn't, given the difficulty in proving blood doping.

So any guesses on who it is today? Zabel? Rasmussen? I'd lean toward Rasmussen given his ducking of the tests in June but I'm thinking in the end it won't be him.

This is the craziest tour I've watched yet.

I watched way back when the Festina disaster happened, trust me this is nothing *g*

According to L'Equipe Vino not only tested positive after the time trial(stage 13) but also tested positive after stage 15, which he also won. I have to admit that I found that win extrememly suspicious, considering the really bad stage he had between those two stages, kinda reminded me of Landis last year.

Would they let the individual with the positive test race? Do they wait for the testing of the B sample? I hope it's not Rasmussen--his battle with Contador is good TV and if they're close for the time trial even better. To their credit, Sherwen and Liggett have managed to maintain their excitement even as Rasmussen has been waving away the motorbikes. (??)

I'm also curious, was Astana's withdrawal voluntary or forced? If forced, why Astana and not, say, T-Mobile for having a positive for testosterone? I suppose it is possible that a team member might be surreptitiously injecting himself with something without team knowledge but a bit less likely that no one on the team would notice a team member getting a blood transfusion just before a stage. Does anyone know the rules on this?

From the information I have, it was forced. I have no idea why the whole team was forced to leave.