So it seems that many didn't watch tonight but here's what happened:

Greta told Johnny she and Cliff slept together when she was with Eddie. So she blames herself for Eddie killing himself. Johnny says whatever, I don't care. They kiss.

Cliff is cool and makes out with Nikki. He also smashes in his mom's boytoy's car Logan Echolls style. Before he makes out with Nikki.

Not much happens but that's ok because . . . the next episode immediately follows!

For Americans, we Canadians have to wait.

Greta tells Johnny that the BIG SECRET is that she slept with Cliff the night before Eddie committed suicide. Henceforth to be referred to as the BS.

I'm more interested in what Liza saw and why didn't she tell the police?

Johnny was an interesting character tonight. I liked his interaction with Liza and with the little gay guy. I especially liked his interaction with Nikki (This isn't tough love, this is anger, BITCH!!).

Michael Cassidy continues to steal the show. Hopefully he can use this to get roles in something that will last.

I watched, I just didn't have the energy to start a thread.

Liza is really, really annoying.

Baseball was on here in Chicago, I was pissed. It looks like they are already posted online though.

I really liked these two eps. The pace was pretty good it seems like the show's really getting into a groove. At least JoeR will be happy there was plenty of sex thanks to The Wiatt's what with Tess, and Cliff going at it with half the cast. Of course coitus interuptus for Johnny and Greta. But the scene with Cliff and the dog was really cute.

And was it me or was Cliff/MC really hott when he was threatening Liza? I kept expecting them to just start making out.

Eh, Cliff kept me entertained. Despite his inappropriate sexual tension with his momma, I love how he tries to protect her in his own way. Momma of Cliff gettin' the gun and taking her boy toy to task was amusing as well.

Nikki and Cliff: As cliched as the mutual declarations of attraction were, I can't help but like those two together. Too bad Cliff's so bad, LOL.

As we've all said Cliff deserves his own show, if they did a spin-off (or just reimagined the show) they should go for the Profit or Dexter line of thought and basically make it about Cliff the bad boy stirring up crap and his being torn between being the good and bad boy as he amuses himself and climbs to power in Hidden Palms. We get good boy Cliff with Nikki and his momma and bad boy Cliff as he deals with his Oedipal complex by making his mom's boyfriends lives a living hell and annoys Greta, and plays Johnny while hitting on him. Johnny can be the sidekick with his story being the B plot, LOL.

How long do you think it will take for something bad to happen to that dog? I kept waiting for Cliff to stomp on it.

The "tough love" scene with Johnny and Nikki . . .eh. Taylor Handley seemed incredibly wooden. I always think its funny when a character has to say "No, this is me angry." If you have to tell me, then you probably should work on that.

Both Cliff and Nikki are being written as completely all over the place, but their charisma and snarkiness makes up for it somehow.

There is a whole Norman Bates thing happemning between Cliff & his Mother isn't there? Hmmmmmm. Creepy.
Loved when Cliff gave Travis the drink and Travis eventually takes it but sniffs it tentively (I though for sure it would be spiked with something) And Cliffs Mom with the gun "I'm from Texas. They give us one before we can walk" line was priceless.

So Cliff and Greta slept together (no big shock) not sure what Liza saw (or thinks she saw) but I bet it wasn't murder.

Thank GOODNESS I wasn't the only one with the odd Cliff/Tessie vibes. It was creepy with the lover lighting and all.

ANYway... I loved this episode.

Nikki/Cliff = LOVE. But, he's bad and she's unstable. Actually, maybe that's why it's so good. Heh.

Greta is starting to lose me. She pales in comparison to Nikki, and she's so.... Boring. She started out mysterious, now she's just gloomy.



I thought the opposite. I liked this scene, liked the dialogue and the performances. So far I think Johnny's best scenes have been with Nikki. They're my favorite of his. I'm exactly thinking of the couch scene after the drunken chaos.

Count me in as someone who was waiting for Cliff to do something evil to that dog. I'm really glad they didn't go there..yet anyway. Cliff totally steals the show, even tho trying to figure out who he's slept with and who he wants to sleep with can boggle the mind a bit.

Jake Kane has really turned rather nasty looking since season 1 of VM. I'm most displeased, that was one handsome man.

Not as good as the following episodes but better than the ones before. I still gasped when I saw Liza wearing the 08 Nova shirt or her screensaver even though I knew it was already her. I have been waiting for that Texas line since the horrid promos but it was a lot funnier with the whole "gun before we walk thing". And hey! For the majority of the scenes (barring a few) I actually recognized Greta!

I liked this episode. It was really Cliff-centric. Have you noticed that the show is becoming increasingly more Cliff-centric. Or maybe that is just the way I end up watching the show. Anyway, I loved Cliff and Nikki. Those two are crazy together and I love it. I also expected Cliff to do something to that dog, but he didn't. I think this proves that he must have some sort of history with the dog he kicked. Maybe that dog killed his father, or broke his mother's heart. (Just kidding, I'm not pro-puppy kicking!)

Johnny and Greta bored the hell out of me again. I also don't understand Johnny at all. You find out the girl you are really into had sex with the crazy guy she seems to hate, right before her boyfriend kills himself. But all you ask is "What was Eddie like?" Why not ask the far more interesting question "If you loved Eddie so much and have always found Cliff to be creepy, why would you have sex with him?" I kept waiting for him to ask and instead I was forced to hear about how pretentious Eddie was.

On another note, I hate Liza. I think she is nuts in her own right. She clearly seems to have been stalking Eddie before he died. Secret friendship indeed.

Continuity Error: Cliff smashed the headlights and did all the damage to the driver's side of the car, but when Travis saw the car, it was the passenger side that had the headlights broken.

I find I can't agree: Handley is fairly affectless, overall. His scenes with Nikki are a little better, but there were at least two scenes last night that made me laugh, they were so badly executed. And they were both Johnny's "big" scenes: The scene in the kitchen with Gail O'Grady ("He died. In. My. Rooooom! ... I screwed up, okay? I'm screwed up!") was supposed to be, I think, a glimpse into Johnny's angsty soul. But all I could think was, Holy crap, that was some bad acting! The later bit with Johnny and Gail (I can never remember his Mom's name, and I don't really care) talking about missing Dead Dad was laughable - with Handley's attempt at "tears"? Good Lord, that was embarrassing. Both scenes were also very clumsily written.

Who'd have thought that Jesse Joe Beverly Leslie Jordan would be not only the most charming character on this show, but the most subtle as well?

And enough already with the "he died in my room" crap. No way does that have to be disclosed on the sale of the property - when DW Stepdad and Johnny were wailing about that, I was all, What now? - and no way is it as traumatic for poor stupid Johnny as the show wants us to believe.

Oh, well, at least Michael Cassidy and Sharon Lawrence seem be to having a good time. Although possibly too much of a good time together - ew.

Is it... Could it be... Did I totally love it again? Yes!

I loved "I'm from texas you moron!". I don't care if it was apparently cliche. I loved Cliff and Nikki together. I like Liza being a bigger part of the episode.

And I still love Greta (and I'm STILL mistyping it as 'Great'). But there was something missing between her and Johnny this episode. I liked it when Greta was more of a crazy/free spirit. This needy thing isn't working for me.

And can anyone really blame her for sleeping with Cliff? Who doesn't want to sleep with Cliff? Show of hands? I thought so.

Oh, one thing I DIDN'T like: the truncated credits. I guess they needed to cut them for time? I don't see why though. They should have had extra time, with only having to run the one set of credits and all. Boo CW!

I actually thought Greta was relatively convincing after she told Johnny about sleeping with Cliff and that is why Eddie killed himself. She was able to act as if telling him that information lifted a giant weight off her shoulders. I didn't think that was the end of the mystery, but I certainly thought that was the end of her part in it.



Hilarious.



Interesting. I thought it looked like the damage was on the back of the car which I thought was strange and didn't coincide with the previous scene.

I am so in love with Nikki and basically want to have her babies. I love love love loved her scene with Jessie Jo. I love Jessie Jo as a character overall.

Johnny is growing on me more and more. I do think the acting is a little off sometimes, but I think he is at least being played as a believable TEENAGER: dramatic, a bit self-righteous, riding around on a bike and trying for the most part to do the right thing... and screwing up a lot.

I enjoyed the Anti-Travis plot hatched by Cliff. I enjoyed the Cliff interaction with... everyone.

The best thing about this show? The multiple possible love triangles:

Greta-Johnny-Liza (the originally intended one, I suppose)
Eddie-Greta-Cliff
Eddie-Greta-Stalker!Liza
Johnny-Nikki-Cliff
Cliff-EVERYONE ON THE SHOW (yessssss)

Michael Cassidy is on fire! Seriously, not only is the guy smokin hot, he's also very talented. He totally is a scene stealer! He so needs to have his own hit show or join as a main cast member of another hit show, I will watch whatever he is in, which until I saw his performance as Cliff, I would not have said before since I wasn't bowled over by his Zack character in the O.C.

He has an amazing voice and its all in the little details with him, very well done.

Nikki and Tessie are my favourite female characters, I love Tessa Thompson's snark, her chemistry with MC is incredible, that make-out scene when they took boytoy's car was wickedly hot, hundred times better than johnny and Grating---erm sorry...Greta.





Exactly! The man doesn't even need to take his shirt off to make the panties melt. Super hott.

*small voice* but I do like Taylor Handley...well mostly when he's interacting with Michael Cassidy, those two have serious HoYay potential. :D

I know this was somewhat mentioned before, but Johnny seems to have more chemistry with Cliff than any of the girls. What I'm trying to say is that he is not believable as someone who is straight. For example, a couple of episodes back, after he took his shirt off at the pool, he gently brushes his hair over his forehead...it just seemed very feminine-like to me.

As a gay guy, I have the exact opposite reading. Johnny comes across as completely straight and a bit clueless. Cliff comes across as VERY interested in Johnny and possibly entangled with Eddie. Johnny has more chemistry with Cliff 'cuz Cliff has more interest in him than Greta or Niki do. (Greta is looking for a audience for her drama and Niki is much more interested in her next drink.)

I only got a quick look at the pic on Liza's screen, but it looked Photoshopped to me. Anyone get a good look at it?

He died in my room!
Then switch bedrooms. Maybe the Johnny room is bigger or nicer, but there must be at least a 3rd bedroom in that house. And then he wouldn't be right across from Cliff. Does it bother anyone else that those two don't seem to use their blinds at night?

This is kind of a nitpick, but it seems Liza and Jessie Jo have those "TV jobs" where you're always at work, especially when it's convenient to the plot. It seemed like JJ was putting in a double shift during that Nikki episode.

Hmm, interesting take... but I still think Johnny's gay. Or at least the actor who plays him anyways. In Cliff's presence, he seems a bit stiff as if trying not to give anything away. In terms of Cliff, he looks like he's purposely all over Johnny trying to get him all hot and bothered. But thats just me.

That was my first reaction. The Photoshop job was pretty obvious, I thought. It was very badly done. Liza was/is just totally obsessed with Eddie.

I'm going with the Liza obsessing over Eddie thing. That Photoshopping was bad.


Word, Sapienta - nice to know that there's someone else who can't stand Liza.

I'm starting to really enjoy the credits. Can't say the same for Johnny and Greta's "epic" romance.

See, the Photoshopping was bad, but bad in the way where the production office sucks.

I don't think we were meant to be suspecting that Liza had photoshopped it herself because of some weird obsession with Eddie.

Though that would be pretty cool...

Really? I'm asking because until I checked the board it didn't even occur to me that the viewers were supposed to believe Liza was really friends with Eddie. That picture was horrible photoshop. Was it really that hard to get the two actors together for a photo?

That's so weird. LOL. I was the opposite. Until I came to the boards it never occurred to me that Liza wasn't legit.

That's where I am at as well. I thought we were supposed to realize it was photoshopped by Liza and she was/is obsessed with Eddie. Between having a photoshopped (if that was intentional of course) picture of her and Eddie as her screensaver, her knowing his screenname, his password, what poets he liked and disliked and wearing his coveralls at home, I think Liza is a bit creepy. Methinks her secret friendship with Eddie was so secret even Eddie didn't know about it.

I think maybe the show wants us to think it's real, and the big reveal will be that yes, Liza was obsessed with Eddie and there was no friendship at all. Perhaps they underestimated how technologically savvy people can really be and didn't expect everyone to horn in right away on the badly done Photoshop. So at some point, we can expect an ep where Johnny is looking at the screensaver. All of a sudden, realization will dawn on his face and he'll go, "What the--? Liza, you Photoshopped this picture! I'm smarter than the viewers watching this and so I totally noticed that!"

And we will bow in awe of Johnny's intelligence and keen eye for detail.

And then Liza will sob and say, "It's true! And I also killed Eddie because I couldn't stand his canoodling with Cliff -- I mean his mom -- I mean Greta."

and then she'll kill Johnny with a leafblower.

I completely agree that Liza is a stalker! That picture looked photoshopped to me too, and although I don't have the old shows to look at, I thought that was orginally a photo of Eddie & Greta. I think the only friendship Liza had with Eddie was in her imagination!! Creepy!