Doom
May 19, 2007 @ 9:42 am
The WNBA starts back up
on ABC today with a rematch of last year's finals - the Sacramento Monarchs VS the Detroit Shock at 3:30 E.S.T.. In recent years, the league has added a new team - the Chicago Sky. Here are the current divisions:
Eastern Division:
Chicago Sky
Connecticut Sun
Detroit Shock
Indiana Fever
New York Liberty
Washington Mystics
Western Division:
Houston Comets
Los Angeles Sparks
Minnesota Lynx
Phoenix Mercury
Sacramento Monarchs
San Antonio Silver Stars
Seattle Storm
Also, here's a great ESPN
feature on Diana Taurasi &
recently re-signed Sue Bird going overseas to play, to make money.
Richyyy
May 19, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
And should you ever see the name 'Nancy Lieberman' near your television set or an article on ESPN.com, run, and run fast.
In other news, I'd be happy to talk about the WNBA and its coverage here for posts on end, but I fear there won't be many people joining in. If anyone's interested and doesn't know, you can watch all the games that are on NBATV via the website for free. The list of available games is
here. It didn't always work perfectly last season, but I'm told it was operational for the Connecticut-Washington game earlier today.
Doom
May 19, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
Nolan (Detroit) is great. She's just got that bounce, man. And I could have sworn Lawson (Sacramento) retired? She's back and she definitely lost some weight. Ticha Penicero, god bless her, that woman couldn't hit a jump shot to save her life.
Oh she could dribble the ball between all 5 defenders and throw a behind the back pass, sure. But when she shoots, she just knows it's not going in.
Okay, now, somebody explain this to me. You are Detroit. You win the WNBA championship in 2006. Uh...how do you get Ivory freakin' Latta the next season?!! I was only half paying attention and tuned back in at the end of the game, and what do you know - old wide eyes out there looking like a kid playing with grown-ups. How in the world did that happen?!
I bet the San Antonio Silver Stars (who perennially suck, apparently) are none too pleased.
Richyyy
May 19, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
The Silver Stars, like nearly every other team in the league, passed on Latta, and she fell to the 11th pick in the first round. I don't think Laimbeer even really wanted to waste his time drafting anyone that late, then Latta fell to him and he happily snapped her up.
The Silver Stars packaged their first round pick (center Jessica Davenport) to get Becky Hammon in a trade from New York.
Oh, and I love Ticha. Yes she isn't the greatest shooter the world has ever seen, but the girl can flat out run a team. Truly a pure point guard.
Doom
May 20, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Ah, okay, thanks. I had no idea she dropped like that. Maybe it's her size.
I love Ticha too. It started when she was at ODU doing things I couldn't even do. I love the Monarchs just because she's on the team. Lawson's awesome and Yolanda "older than dirt" Griffith is cool, even though she's in Gary Payton territory it seems.
Other than that, I adore Sue Bird. I just hope the league hangs around long enough to get going really well. There were plenty of empty seats in Detroit on Saturday. Kind of weak for the defending champs.
Richyyy
May 20, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
I have a horrible feeling this is turning into a two-person thread... ;)
Anyway, I watched Phoenix-San Antonio last night (via webcast - so that one worked at least). Good win for Phoenix but SASS are kind of a mess with all their new players, lack of a true point guard and gaping hole at small forward (they have quick guards and decent bigs, but nothing in between, so the likes of Taurasi, Taylor, Mazzante etc. ripped them to bits).
Part of Detroit's problem with the arena looking a bit empty is that they play at the Palace of Auburn Hills (where the Pistons play), so the place is huge. Some of the other teams sell fewer tickets but the arena looks fuller because they play in tighter, more compact venues.
Doom
May 20, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
True. I do remember them talking about how ridiculously poor the attendance at games was. Then of course there was the whole fiasco with them locking out the WNBA from playoff games because of the American Idol finale, which I thought was just complete nonsense (as in screw American Idol).
pokey camp
May 21, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Okay, I'll make three then. I read that article too Doom. Loved Taurasi's quote about getting handed straight cash after a win: "He's a legend." Plus, the Russian drinking bit.
Part of Detroit's problem with the arena looking a bit empty is that they play at the Palace of Auburn Hills (where the Pistons play), so the place is huge. Some of the other teams sell fewer tickets but the arena looks fuller because they play in tighter, more compact venues.
Yeah, that's one of main reasons I was hoping for a Monarchs repeat last year. (That and I just really love their team.) Sac has actual fans that sell out the place and truly care so I wanted to see them rewarded with back to back championships. Unlike the Palace, Arco would have been rocking Saturday. But Detroit got under their skins with all their bitching, complaining and general all purpose drama and that was that. Oh and Nolan is pretty much unstoppable when she decides to be aggressive; too bad for the Monarchs she decided to be aggressive during that series.
Ah, okay, thanks. I had no idea she dropped like that. Maybe it's her size.
I'm not sure it was all about size. I think she just didn't have a good year. Being injured was part of it, but I also think her poor decision making was exposed too. Plus, she's a complete drama queen... so I guess she'll fit in great with the Shock. Perfect fit really.
I love Ticha too. It started when she was at ODU doing things I couldn't even do. I love the Monarchs just because she's on the team. Lawson's awesome and Yolanda "older than dirt" Griffith is cool, even though she's in Gary Payton territory it seems.
Yeah, it's hard not to love Ticha. Over plucked eyebrows and all. Believe me I've tried; it took me years to get over how she absolutely dominated that '97 Final Four game. Gah. For some reason she could shoot just fine then. But Lawson and Powell are just so clutch, I love that team. Hopefully they can get it together with Boucek. (BTW awful outfit on Saturday, but she recovered nicely for the NBATV game Sunday.)
ajra
May 21, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
I'll try to make it four, but it'll be tough. My viewership has waned in the past few years.
I just hope the league hangs around long enough to get going really well.
It's already been 10+ years; is it going to take 20? I really wish I knew what goes on in TPTB heads as far as the WNBA is concerned. They're not even treated like second class citizens.
- The Cleveland Rockers had a decent fan base... then, all of a sudden they're disbanded - why? So the Cavs could get LeBron, new team colors, and re-do the arena floor and seats? Maybe the decision had nothing to do with LeBron, but the two will always be linked in my mind.
- And while I love that WNBA players are made available after games for autographs and photo ops, what's up with interviewing players during the game? (A player on the bench for a rest was interviewed during a game this weekend.) That would never happen in the NBA.
The league doesn't get any respect... if it hasn't gained the respect it deserves in 10+ years, what hope is there, really? It just seems like a summer-long, televised olympic team tryout or something.
(Man, I didn't know how bitter I was until I typed that all out.)
pokey camp
May 21, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
The league doesn't get any respect... if it hasn't gained the respect it deserves in 10+ years, what hope is there, really? It just seems like a summer-long, televised olympic team tryout or something.
Yeah. Another option for this thread title could be: The WNBA: Your Favorite Part-Time Job. (The article Doom linked pretty much spells that one out.)
I know it seems like a lot, but really 10+ years isn't that long wrt establishing a league. If you look at the big three major leagues, even though they had an obvious advantage in terms of less competition for attention and being played by men, they all took a hell of a lot longer than 10 years to gain any traction; MLB, NFL and especially the NBA. Hope that helps ease the bitterness.
And funny you should mention the Rockers, NBATV just re-ran a special on Suzie McConnell Serio. Man, I kind of miss that old school pony tail plus bangs look. Thank goodness the Miller twins are still around.
Richyyy
May 21, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I believe the main reason that the Rockers were disbanded is that Gordon Gund (former owner) is an asshole and screwed them over. There are plenty of people still bitter about that one.
The league needs to find a way to keep the Storm in Seattle though (even if the Sonics leave). That's another very well supported franchise that the league can't really afford to let disappear/relocate.
Good to see other people joining in with Doom and me ;).
ajra
May 21, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Good ol' Suzie. She had all those kids and she could ball. I would have loved it if my mom was ball player.
Doom
May 21, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Wow, what was I thinking. For some reason I thought Kara Lawson had been in the league for a long, long time. This is only her 4th or 5th year. And Ticha has been in for what, 10 years now - longer than Yolanda Griffith. I don't know how I got that confused.
I totally agree that they're treated like second class citizens. It's awful. They'll be in the post-season and ESPN sometimes won't even show the highlights until like 35 minutes into sportscenter.
They really do need to get better marketing. This "have you seen her" stuff kinda went out a while back. I think the in-game interviews were an attempt to try to give viewers something they couldn't get in the NBA. Like trying to figure out what unique content they can generate.
That's where I think Ivory Latta (drama and all) can help. Basketball is about personalities. Either team or individual. I couldn't half remember what team Latta was on last year - there'd be a Maryland VS Duke game on and I'd be wondering where she was.
...But I was wondering where she was. Those looks, that passion, her constant yapping - it made you want to watch her. Watch her succeed, watch her fail, watch her sweat, watch her scream.
You know what, it's kind of like she was bucking the whole patriarchal system that has women being passive and deferring. She's loud, she's concerned about herself. She's not selfish to the point of being annoying or arrogant to the point of it being a turn-off. She's just really passionate. And while she did keep (or was it the media) referring to wanting to be Allen Iverson-like, it was still enthralling to see her out there.
I think one of the biggest problems the league has is the play inside on a loose ball. The guard play is often phenomenal, that's fine. But get a loose ball on the inside - even just a mishandled rebound, and time seems to grind to a halt. The players kind of half fight for it and the perimeter players just stand and watch. It's like the forwards and centers are stuck in sludge. Things go in slow motion.
I don't know what to do to fix that, but that's one of the major drawbacks to me. Of course there's the dunking issue, but a lady from Tennessee is on her way to solve that pretty soon.
ajra
May 22, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I totally agree that they're treated like second class citizens. It's awful. They'll be in the post-season and ESPN sometimes won't even show the highlights until like 35 minutes into sportscenter.
Heck, when Detroit went from worst to first and won the finals, the next day,
nothing WNBA related was anywhere to be found on the front page of Sports Illustrated's website (sportsillustrated.cnn.com). That's pretty sad.
As a matter of fact, go there right now. "WNBA" in not on one of the tabs across the top of the page. And when you mouse over "More", it's not in that list either. "High School" has a tab, people. And in the "Scores" list, it's number 5 - under NFL and College Football who don't even play in May. That's more than sad.
Of course there's the dunking issue
Oh, don't get me started on that - Lisa Leslie got the first WNBA dunk in 2002?!!??!!? No one thought to dunk before 2002? None of these women dunked in college? It just happened to be during a nationally televised game... and it just happened to be done by Lisa? That whole thing just burns me up.
Richyyy
May 23, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
The Seattle-Phoenix game tonight (10 EST) has been added to the NBATV schedule (and hence the webcast schedule as well) if anyone's interested. Should be a pretty good game.
toons
May 23, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
I went ahead and bought season tickets for the Mystics and was at the game last night against Sacramento. I thought the Mystics might actually win if they kept up their 1st half play, but then they went totally cold on offense, stopped rebounding, and just generally played like they'd never been on the court together before. Brutal.
I think the game was shown on ESPN2, so did anyone see any of it? I really wish teams would focus on filling the lower sections instead of selling tickets all over the arena. One of the main sections across from the visiting team's bench was nearly empty, which had to look horrible on TV. Despite the relatively small crowd, people were still enthusiastic and actually got pretty loud.
For my money, the entertainment can't be beat.
Doom
May 24, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
I forgot about it, then remembered. Then when I flipped it over there, it had already gone off and I was looking at some random bald dude.
pmiller5
May 27, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
I'll join you guys. I wasn't a women's basketball fan at all until I came to the states to the east coast for university and caught Husky fever. I think the main reasons the league hasn't caught on is a) the play can be painful at times, probably due to the shortened seasons and the players' resultant unfamiliarity with one another and b) most people still think only lesbians are interested. If the owners were more invested, and didn't just view WNBA teams as tag-alongs to their NBA franchises, the league would be much better off. The trend towards independent ownership in WA, Houston, and especially Conn is encouraging, but if the Seattle team is relocated, it will be a huge blow to the league as that team enjoys the best media coverage by far, and are among the best fan-supported teams.
Enough with my ramblings, all I really care about is Diana Taurasi. I will watch any game she plays in, even if it's a handicap match, pitting her against 10 dwarves. She is an amazing freak. I hope Phoenix finally manages to get into the playoffs this year because people need to see this team play. Seattle, with Lauren Jackson and Sue Bird, is cool too, but I can't figure out some of Anne Donovan's moves. Why on earth did she cut Barbara Turner in favour of Shyra Ely? Anyway, let's hope the Phoenix/Conn game next week is decent because the last two ABC broadcasts have been duds.
Speaking about broadcasts, I almost forgot to mention my what a disaster most of the "experts" are, particularly that half-wit Nancy Lieberman. Rebecca Lobo and Doris Burke are the only two I can stand. Rebecca is plain funny and Doris seems like she knows what she's talking about half of the time.
One more thing, when are TPTB going to realise mic-ing Bill Laimbeer is a crap idea. He is an abusive bully who doesn't do anything but whine about the refs. If they mic anyone, it should obviously be Taurasi. ;)
Richyyy
May 28, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Oh absolutely, micing the coaches is an idiotic idea. Well, micing the coaches and leaving the mics on during play is an idiotic idea, anyway. They need to use it like the NFL - mic them up, then piece together the footage into a package for half-time, post-game, or a feature item the next week. It's a disaster at the minute.
Putting a mic on DT would be dangerous though - from what I hear once they bleeped out the words they're not allowed to broadcast there wouldn't be much left ;). There was a lovely moment in the Phoenix-Seattle game last week when the refs called a travel on Lauren Jackson in the paint and Taurasi came charging over and started shouting trash in LJ's face. She kept it up as long as she could until they both dissolved into peals of laughter. Bird, Taurasi and LJ are great mates and the whole game was played in a fantastic spirit even though the Mercury were getting their asses kicked.
As for the coverage, I think I suggested in my first post to immediately run away as soon as you see the name Nancy Lieberman anywhere near anything. She's an idiot, and her 'articles' at ESPN.com are riddled with factual errors even once you ignore the opinion elements. The difference between her stuff and Mechelle Voepel's on the same site is huge.
Doom
May 28, 2007 @ 10:01 am
I'm glad ESPN(2) at least committed to showing Tuesday & Saturday games at a minimum. I don't recall that in years past, though perhaps I just didn't notice.
toons
May 29, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
I think I suggested in my first post to immediately run away as soon as you see the name Nancy Lieberman anywhere near anything. She's an idiot, and her 'articles' at ESPN.com are riddled with factual errors even once you ignore the opinion elements. The difference between her stuff and Mechelle Voepel's on the same site is huge.
So much word - Lieberman is the absolute worst and I can't take anything she says seriously in print OR on air. I love me some Mechelle Voepel, though.
pmiller5
May 29, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
Well how quaint. I finally get a chance to watch a Taurasi game, and she loses her head and is ejected before the 1st quarter ends. Did anyone watch the game? That was hardly a flagrant, what a crap call, but expected from these awful refs. I don't think I've ever actually seen a woman ejected.
ETA I just watched the replay, and she did make contact with Lawson's head, so yeah, I guess she deserved the flagrant, but I'm still pissed she was tossed. If Laimbeer can get away with everything he says, I can't imagine what Taurasi said to warrant an ejection.
Richyyy
May 29, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
Told you that mic-ing up Taurasi would've been dangerous ;).
I only saw the second half so still haven't seen the foul, but I hope you stuck around for the rest of the game - Phoenix woke up after DT got tossed and it ended up in a heck of a finish.
pmiller5
May 30, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
Told you that mic-ing up Taurasi would've been dangerous ;).
Yeah, but it would be ratings gold! I did catch all of the game, and it was really exciting, particularly the end. Due to some horrible coincidence, the good games are never picked up on network.
In other news, Houston lost to SA, and remain winless. I guess SA is finally a legit playoff contender.
dagny
May 31, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
The Monarchs just killed me. I caught the fourth quarter. All of those turnovers. Not scoring with 10 seconds left on the clock? Gah. Phoenix just killed them by preventing the inside passing. Gotta give them credit for coming back & just frustrating the Monarchs with the D.
pmiller5
Jun 3, 2007 @ 5:24 pm
In contrast to the ABC game yesterday, the Liberty/Mercury match today was incredible. I'm really impressed with NY, with the Hammon trade, I chalked this year up to a rebuilding one. Taurasi disappeared in the 4th quarter after starting hot. Someone needs to tell her coach that the last shot goes to #3. Always.
SophiaD
Jul 11, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
I stayed up late last night to see the results of the Storm-Sparks game on the news and the idiot sportscaster didn't even mention it. Blah, blah Ichiro (who is a great player), blah blah men's basketball, but not a WORD about the Storm. The frickin' paper doesn't even have a link for the Storm on their website - you have to click and click and click again to get to them.
Washington has two women senators and a woman governor - not to mention one of the greatest WNBA players in Lauren Jackson - you'd think we'd get a clue.
Richyyy
Jul 11, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
Seattle actually has some of the best local coverage in the league (although that may say more about the others than about Storm coverage itself). Jayda Evans of the Seattle Times is a dedicated Storm beat writer and
writes a blog on the Storm that's updated at least once a day, and the Post-Intelligencer covers them as well. Hopefully Seattle can keep the Storm even if they lose the Sonics, because it's one of the best markets that the WNBA has.
Doom
Jul 15, 2007 @ 7:17 am
The WNBA All-Star game is today at 3:30 Eastern on ABC. I haven't been catching many games - anybody know how Ivory Lata is doing?
Richyyy
Jul 15, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
Latta's been doing alright when she gets on the floor, but to be honest Detroit is so deep that she's barely played. Her defence really isn't good enough yet to get consistent minutes for the Shock, so she mostly gets on the floor for the last play of a period as an extra shooter or in garbage time.
Her fellow rookie Lindsey Harding tore her ACL a couple of days ago and is out for the rest of the year, by the way (after so far being one of the leading candidates for rookie of the year).
Doom
Jul 15, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Well that was pretty awesome! They came out on fire and it ended with a flourish. I loved the announcement the president of the WNBA made that ABC will be broadcasting their games until the year 2258. Okay, actually 2016, but will the league even last that long? I hope so, but with the Washington players begging the fans to re-show for their game on Wednesday...
But what was up with that little wimpy ass mvp 'trophy'? And a gift card from Discover?
Here's a hint, WNBA, show season highlights all throughout the game. Because likely many people haven't seen games all year. I saw one commercial and somebody did an incredible move going between the legs on the way to the hole and what looked like a 3-point play.
Holy mackerel, could Tina Thompson's child be any cuter? That baby was adorable!
Richyyy
Jul 15, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
Well that was pretty awesome! They came out on fire and it ended with a flourish. I loved the announcement the president of the WNBA made that ABC will be broadcasting their games until the year 2258. Okay, actually 2016, but will the league even last that long? I hope so, but with the Washington players begging the fans to re-show for their game on Wednesday...
Official announcement of the new TV deal
here. Definitely good news, but I'd love to see some numbers about how much the league is getting in the deal.
Doom
Jul 15, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
I don't think they're giving up any info. The president was all hush-hush about the markets they were trying to expand into. I'm like you need to expand into D.C., so the players can stop begging the fans to attend games. I keed, I keed.
So sucky that Sue Bird couldn't attend. She's basically my favorite player besides Ticha. The more I play, the more you see women on the court now. I love it. Because it used to be so rare to see "a girl" playing. I've seen ladies light guys up though. There are always some blocked shots but the ladies I've played with are completely unphased. The WNBA still isn't doing it marketing wise though. They really have to get that piece figured out. It's like they just can't really figure out what the unique draw is, to market it to people.
Richyyy
Aug 18, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
Last day of the regular season tomorrow (Sunday). All six games televised in one way or another, early game on ABC, the rest on NBATV and/or webcast via the website. Last playoff spot in the East is still up in the air. If Washington win in the early game, New York need to win three hours later to keep the fourth spot in the East; if Washington lose it's all done and New York are in regardless.
Playoffs start Thursday - Detroit-NY/Wash and Indiana-Connecticut in the East, Phoenix-Seattle and San Antonio-Sacramento in the West. Detroit ought to take care of whoever they end up with, but the other three could all get interesting.
Ellegado
Aug 20, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
I keep on trying to watch WNBA games, but the same problems keep coming up. Mainly bad shooting and, until Phoenix hired Paul Westhead, slow play all the way around. They need a Lindsay Lohan looking woman who can score 30 points a game and do 360 dunks, then clone her five or six times, or barring that find a way to have at least 10% of games have at least one team score 100.
notting
Aug 21, 2007 @ 3:31 am
The games are only 40 minutes long; if you prorate it, WNBA teams average about 92 points/48 minutes, compared to the NBA's 99. Doesn't say anything about the quality of play, but it's not ridiculously slower.. I suspect most of the difference is the shooting (the best shooting WNBA team is still worse than all but one of last year's NBA teams.)
Richyyy
Aug 21, 2007 @ 11:24 am
I almost hate to bring it up, because it's something NBA fans who arbitrarily hate the WNBA frequently mention as a reason behind their dislike, but one of the main reasons for that 7-point difference is probably the lack of dunking. Watch any WNBA game and you'll see a bunch of missed layups, and while it drives me nuts that certain players seem incapable of ever making a freaking layup, often it's because they get bumped or nudged or whatever. In the NBA, several of those layup attempts would simply be dunks instead, as the player could elevate above the rim and put it in. Dunks have a 90+% chance of success, while layups are much lower when they're contested.
Also, it was only last season that the league switched to the 24-second shot-clock (rather than 30-second), so that's sped things up and increased scoring. Improving the refereeing would help the quality of play considerably as well.
flg8or
Aug 22, 2007 @ 8:53 am
They need a Lindsay Lohan looking woman who can score 30 points a game and do 360 dunks
Don't we all?
Those humans, by and large, just don't exist.
Swoopes was known as the female Jordan at Texas Tech. She's a hell of a player, and I've interviewed her, she's very, very, very nice and very cool and smart and I think she's very attractive. But she doesn't move the needle.
Sue Bird's a terrific player and very attractive. I don't know that she moves the needle.
Lauren Jackson looks attractive sometimes when she's photographed right, but most of the time she looks like a jock - which is fine, but she's not going to attract the male demo you're alluding to (even when they find her nudes online).
Lisa Leslie's game can be, at times, the most recognizable to male fans as what they're used to - she plays big, and she's stylish and (YMMV) attractive. I'm not sure she moves the needle, either, though.
Looking ahead, Candace Parker is a really, really,
really good player. I don't mean this to be sexist, either, but she plays in a style that male fans would recognize as being close to what some NBA players do, too. And she's very smart and a great kid (I've interviewed her, too) from a great family. She's going to be a big asset to whatever WNBA team gets her. But I'm not sure she can move the needle, either.
I just don't think "the" WNBA player you're alluding to exists. There's no Beckham-type to raise the league out of its niche status and make it worthy of even lookie-loo status like MLS has at the moment (however temporarily).
I'm a big believer that niche sports should play to that niche, and do it strongly. If the niche isn't big enough, then you're toast. But if the WNBA and MLS are looking for mainstream acceptance, I'm not sure that's ever going to happen. Which doesn't mean they can't survive and even thrive - it's a matter of playing to that niche.
pmiller5
Aug 22, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
I don't know if you necessarily need a drop-dead gorgeous player to 'move the needle'. The league and sponsors just need to do a better job of promoting players in the right way. For example, I think it would be fair to say Taurasi, coming out of college, was a mainstream sports star. She is not conventionally pretty...cute yes, but not Sue Bird. The problem is, besides from the inane WNBA commercials, Taurasi isn't in any other marketing campaigns. I would love to see Nike or Gatorade push her into the forefront, similar to how they marketed Mia Hamm. The only time I ever hear my local sports shows mention the WNBA is when Taurasi comes to town, so she definitely has drawing power. As for shooting, for some accursed reason, televised games always feature horrible shooting. I attend NBA and WNBA games on a regular basis, and would say perimeter shooting for both leagues is basically the same, with the edge going to the women on consistency of jumpers. As someone mentioned, the problem is the blown layups.
Anyway, I'm very excited for the Seattle/PHX series. I hope it goes to a game 3 with Seattle winning out.
My other predictions:
Monarchs/SA--I don't particularly care for either team, but I think SA in 2. Sacramento hasn't impressed me all year. They're lucky the rest of the western conference teams had abysmal years.
Conn/Indiana--Really depends on whether or not Catchings is back, but I would say Conn in 3.
Detroit/NY--This series can get very ugly. Detroit in 2 easily, I just hope it's not too lopsided.
ETA: Egads! I just looked at their record and what happened to the Comets this year?
flg8or
Aug 22, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
I don't know if you necessarily need a drop-dead gorgeous player to 'move the needle'. The league and sponsors just need to do a better job of promoting players in the right way. For example, I think it would be fair to say Taurasi, coming out of college, was a mainstream sports star. She is not conventionally pretty...cute yes, but not Sue Bird.
Double-edged sword. If she's drop-dead gorgeous, she's not taken seriously as a player (or is only a very good player,
a la Kournikova). If she's a serious baller, there will always be those men who consider her butch.
And, like I said, the ones that have serious game
and are really attractive aren't that numerous - and like you said, they aren't really marketed all that well.
I think the WNBA is skittish about playing the whole sexuality card, especially seeing as how they skirt (no pun intended) that line between feminine beauty, athleticism and sexual preference.
Richyyy
Aug 22, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
ETA: Egads! I just looked at their record and what happened to the Comets this year?
Swoopes was injured essentially the entire year (and might be done completely), Michelle Snow did her standard disappearing act, and they had no backcourt whatsoever. Tina Thompson was their only consistent presence all year and that wasn't even close to being enough.
They took JUCO project Ashley Shields with the 8th overall pick in the draft (when they almost certainly could've had her in the second or third round) and it was downhill from there. Shields ended up rooted to the bench for most of the season, and until they re-signed Tameka Dixon after their season was already pretty much over the Comets were just desperately trying to paper over the cracks on the perimeter all year long.
And I second
pmiller5's endorsement of the Seattle-Phoenix series - if you wanna see scoring, these are two of the best scoring teams in the league, and two of the worst defences. The Storm also tend to see Phoenix's running style as a challenge and run right back at them, rather than trying to slow them down. Also, Taurasi, Jackson and Bird are all great mates, so you may get the bizarre sight of players throwing elbows or talking trash at each other... and then dissolving into giggles :).
flg8or
Aug 22, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
The fact that you know these things confuses and frightens me. :)
Doom
Aug 22, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
Sue Bird's a terrific player and very attractive. I don't know that she moves the needle.
Heresy. And hey, what about Deanna Nolan? She looks good (she not drop dead gorgeous, but hey) and she's got a prettier (and more accurate) jumper than me. And she's
cranking.
Who needs looks when she can drive baseline and do a double pump reverse? I haven't seen her play in a while, but Sue is... well just don't ever say that again about my basketball wife ;)
pmiller5
Aug 22, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Double-edged sword. If she's drop-dead gorgeous, she's not taken seriously as a player (or is only a very good player, a la Kournikova). If she's a serious baller, there will always be those men who consider her butch.
And, like I said, the ones that have serious game and are really attractive aren't that numerous - and like you said, they aren't really marketed all that well.
I don't think there's a double-edged sword if the right player or marketing campaign comes along, and again I would reference Hamm or Sharapova. WNBA has numerous attractive players who are also very good players--Swin Cash, Hammon, Catchings, Cheryl Ford, etc..., but the league suffers from horrible marketing. I think something more subtle than the 'This is Who I Am' campaign from a few years back, where the players dressed up in pretty clothes and wore too much makeup, would be effective.
Swoopes was injured essentially the entire year (and might be done completely), Michelle Snow did her standard disappearing act, and they had no backcourt whatsoever. Tina Thompson was their only consistent presence all year and that wasn't even close to being enough.
They took JUCO project Ashley Shields with the 8th overall pick in the draft (when they almost certainly could've had her in the second or third round) and it was downhill from there. Shields ended up rooted to the bench for most of the season, and until they re-signed Tameka Dixon after their season was already pretty much over the Comets were just desperately trying to paper over the cracks on the perimeter all year long.
Thanks for the info,
Richyyy. Snow has always been a headcase, and I don't know why the Comets drafted Shields over Latta, who might be short, but was also a proven talent in college against elite competition. She's doing rather well in Detroit too. As annoying as Laimbeer is, I must admit, the man brings out the best in his players.
Also, Taurasi, Jackson and Bird are all great mates, so you may get the bizarre sight of players throwing elbows or talking trash at each other... and then dissolving into giggles :).
Has anyone followed Bird and Taurasi's blog this year? I haven't read all of the entries, but what I've read is entertaining as hell. The league should consult these two on effective marketing campaigns. As for the matchup, I would have preferred seeing it as a Western Conference final instead. Too bad Seattle was so inconsistent and injury-plagued this year.
She looks good (she not drop dead gorgeous, but hey) and she's got a prettier (and more accurate) jumper than me. And she's cranking.
Wow, can Nolan dunk!? Is she even 6ft?
flg8or
Aug 22, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
Yes, Sue Bird rocks.
And yet, Seattle's per-game attendance dropped from 8,568 a game last year to 7,974 this year. That's what I mean by moving the needle.
pmiller5
Aug 22, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Seattle's attendance dropped because there's a relocation issue looming over the team, and many Seattle fans are disillusioned about new ownership, as well as arena issues. The Storm's inconsistent season didn't help the matter, but I don't think a decline in attendance can be attributed to Bird, unless fans stayed away because she played injured during the first half of the season, resulting in a drop in her stats. Even during a down year, she still managed to pull in the most ASG votes, though I know there were accusations of ballot stuffing from Seattle fans. I'm not saying this means she's capable of 'moving the needle'. It would be interesting to see stats on televised game ratings, as in which teams draw the most fans. I know there was a small Taurasi effect her rookie year, where every televised Phoenix game resulted in an audience increase of....I don't remember the exact numbers, but maybe 30%? You know what team is doing really well in terms of attendance and working themselves into the local sports scene? Connecticut Sun. Silly name, I know, but so far, they've been a model franchise. Believe me, I live in the area, and the news coverage is top notch, possibly the best in the league with Seattle.
Richyyy
Aug 22, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
The fact that you know these things confuses and frightens me. :)
Hey, every league and every sport has its fans and followers. Now the fact that I live in the UK and know these things might be a little surprising... ;)
Thanks for the info, Richyyy. Snow has always been a headcase, and I don't know why the Comets drafted Shields over Latta, who might be short, but was also a proven talent in college against elite competition.
Considering their desperate need for a point guard (which pretty much still exists although they found some vaguely serviceable options by the end of the year), they really should've taken Latta. No one much expected her to fall as far as she did though, so maybe Houston weren't really prepared for it. The whole organisation's basically been in turmoil since they were sold by the Rockets' owner before this season.
Latta's done alright in very limited minutes on a loaded Detroit team, but not really shown much except an ability to jack lots of threes and play pretty poor defence. Still would've been an upgrade for the Comets though.
Wow, can Nolan dunk!? Is she even 6ft?
Not really, is the answer to the first question. She's tried in a couple of All-Star games and come up just short, even when the other team actively cleared out of her way. She's got a phenomenal vertical jump though, to go with what's become a very good all-around game.
You know what team is doing really well in terms of attendance and working themselves into the local sports scene? Connecticut Sun. Silly name, I know, but so far, they've been a model franchise.
Connecticut are doing realy well, but what they also have is a near-unique ownership situation. The casino doesn't mind losing a little money on the team or at best breaking even because it generates publicity and creates a family atmosphere and reputation around the casino. It also obviously brings in people who populate their stores, restaurants, slot machines and gaming tables before and after all the games.
As for the ongoing debate about advertising the league, I think the league has always been confused about how to go about it. The traditional sports fan is a straight white guy, probably middle-aged, who drinks beer and likes hot chicks. The next biggest group after 'white male' is 'black male' before you get anywhere near a female group. But these people are generally not interested in the league - so do you try hard to
get them interested, or do you go after other groups like women, the gay community etc. who aren't typically interested in sports in general?
As for using the attractiveness of the players to gain publicity, that's always been an awkward area as well. Push it too far and they get criticised for selling how hot their players are, ignoring their talents as athletes and 'demeaning' their stars by treating them as sex-objects.
Don't use their stars' attractiveness to sell the league and they get criticised for not using a valuable resource to sell the league.
pmiller5
Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Hey, every league and every sport has its fans and followers. Now the fact that I live in the UK and know these things might be a little surprising... ;)
That is surprising. I didn't know women's basketball even registered on the UK radar. I'm from Australia and attended university in CT, hence my WNBA allegiance, what's your excuse? ;)
Connecticut are doing realy well, but what they also have is a near-unique ownership situation. The casino doesn't mind losing a little money on the team or at best breaking even because it generates publicity and creates a family atmosphere and reputation around the casino. It also obviously brings in people who populate their stores, restaurants, slot machines and gaming tables before and after all the games.
Considering this is their 5th year in existence, I think the growth has been very commendable. Each year they have slowly accrued more fans and have managed to distinguish themselves from the rabid UConn following. It doesn't hurt that CT has nothing else going for it at this time of year, and there are at least 3 very good newspapers following every home game. But where I think the ownership has really excelled is making games very fan friendly. The arena is an ideal size, there are all kinds of great promotions, and players are always visible in the community. You're right though, it is a unique situation. A move towards independent ownership seems to be inevitable and will probably be better for the league in the long run. Houston doesn't count as it seems Hilton wasn't the best candidate for ownership. I'm hoping the evil OKC guys relinquish Seattle to local buyers because it would be a shame if the league lost that market. Still not sure if expansion is a good idea at the moment, though TN would be an interesting market.
As for using the attractiveness of the players to gain publicity, that's always been an awkward area as well. Push it too far and they get criticised for selling how hot their players are, ignoring their talents as athletes and 'demeaning' their stars by treating them as sex-objects. Don't use their stars' attractiveness to sell the league and they get criticised for not using a valuable resource to sell the league.
There's a way you can showcase an athlete's attractiveness without being horribly blatant about it. For example, Gatorade commercials featuring a bikini clad Kerri Walsh with Gatorade sweat beads glistening off her body are not offensive to me. She's sexy in a strong, athletic way that even beer swilling white guys can appreciate. In contrast, some of the past WNBA campaigns are embarrassing in their attempts to push the players' femininity upon us. The clothes...the makeup...the cheesy backgrounds...it's all too, too much. Thankfully, the league seems to be moving away from that direction under Oreander. Unfortunately, the officiating seems to have gotten worse.
One more thing, whilst we're on the subject of PGs in the league. Why is it that there's always such a shortage of them? How many elite PGs are there...off the top of my head: Bird, Hammon, Whalen, Kelly Miller, maybe Tully and Penicheiro, and then....? Poor Bird hasn't had a decent backup since Tully left and Houston hasn't found a good one since Perot.
Anyway, I'm really not looking forward to the WNBA commentary this week. Doris Burke is good, but the rest of ESPN/ABC's crew should go away. Well, maybe not Rebecca Lobo, I can't slight a UConn legend.
flg8or
Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:45 am
In contrast, some of the past WNBA campaigns are embarrassing in their attempts to push the players' femininity upon us.
Especially when some of them are just so...not feminine. At all.
pmiller5
Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Especially when some of them are just so...not feminine. At all.
No mate, they push those girls into the attic for commercial campaigns. They're only allowed back out during All-Star game 'glamour' photos, but that's only because their absence would be too glaring. I thank God Leslie was knocked up this year and we weren't all subjected to one of her model/Kentucky Derby winner poses.