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Glark
Sniff! Rome is now in PH land. The old forum has been archived in the Read-Only section of "Dramas". This is where you can continue the talk.
wimple
Thank you Glark. May the thirteenth RIP. I've been trying to watch Henry VIII, but the inferiority of that mess just makes my Rome withdrawals all the more painfull.
Lizrd
Yeah, I'm seeing Rome orphans all over the boards; the Henry VIII thread is full of them.

A friend of mine was in town last weekend who had only seen Season 1, so I had a good excuse to re-watch most of Season 2 with him from On Demand. (Get it while you still can, kids!). God, it rocked; nothing else on TV like it.

*sniff*
Lillith
Salve citizens! The Tudors is sadly not the historical fix I thought it was going to be, and watching it makes me realize how vastly superior Rome was in every way.
artemis snape
Noooooo! I am still in mourning and refuse to delete my season pass. I underwent a little therapy by watching Bedrooms and Hallways last night. James Purefoy and Kevin McKidd naked and kissing each other did help a bit.
hmelizabeth2
I am about to break out the Dance to the Music of Time DVD this evening. Plotting to buy Topsy Turvy with my tax return money. Thinking about gathering screen caps from Rome and printing out paper dolls so I can make James and Kevin smooch each other whenever I want them to.

I'm trying the Tudors, too. Liked Jeremy Northam whipping himself, weird and strangely hot at the same time. We'll see how that goes.
Arya
Awww "Bedrooms and Hallways". Here are some nice pics and the subtitle under the fifth one send me rolling under the table ;) And KMK? How cute he was? Funy because "cute" is one of the last words I would use in reference to him in "Rome" but here? I could eat him- totally.

http://community.livejournal.com/rome_fic/8675.html#cutid1

And since we are speaking about "Rome" boys kissing and all here are some nice manips by the Theban Band featuring Brutus&Cassius and Pullo&Vorenus. The second one is slashy as hell so be warned.

http://www.squidge.org/~praxisters/rome/desiderium.html

http://www.squidge.org/~praxisters/rome/rome.html
artemis snape
I'm trying the Tudors, too. Liked Jeremy Northam whipping himself, weird and strangely hot at the same time. We'll see how that goes.


The Tudors is snarkalicious, but no substance. Jeremy Northam is definitely one of the few highlights.

On Rome, there were very few characters that I did not care for or root for in some way. For example, I hated Octavia for most of season 1, and then they made me love her. It is opposite with The Tudors - there are very few characters that I can stand.

Thanks Arya! Keep those links coming!
Belisarius
I'm glad the old forum has been archived; will still browse it when I can.

(Even the mediocre-or-worse shows have had good forums. My first exposure to TWOP was Married by America; I never even watched the show, but read the forum as religiously as the recaps.)
LoneRanger
I am late to the party, having just purchased and watched the DVDs of Season One and now -through my friends' HBO On Demand -starting Season Two. I have so enjoyed M. Giant's recaps - it's like getting the pleasure of watching the episode with a snarky friend. Makes me nostalgic for his magnificent early "24" recaps.

This series is such a perfect balance: historical epic without being ponderous. And for all the violence, many moments of clever humor that respects our intelligence. ("You too, Mother?") The first episode of Season Two was magnificent, with the juxtoposition of the funerals of Caesar and Niobe.
Doc Clara
Sniff. There I was rationing the viewing because I was in denial about cancellation and I only go and miss the Forum too. Cursadillas.

Just want to say that, even more than this instalment of Jocasta's Upper Class Twit, Antony's sinister Julian Clary look in Deus Impeditio etc had me creased up. As did Pullo complaining about "the gippos" to Lyde and Vorena the elder who were in full Egyptian Isis robes: oops.

I can't think of another show that mixed sinister and comic, historical and contemporary, so well.
anyanka323
HBO Emmy Campaign and Submissions
It does look like HBO is doing an Emmy campaign for Rome. Whoever was in charge of selecting episodes did a good job with "Phillippi" and "De Patrae Vostro". JP, RS, KmK, PW, and LD are being submitted in the lead categories.
May 29 1453
JP, RS, KmK, PW, and LD are being submitted in the lead categories.


I'm glad they are doing an emmy campaign, maybe there is a slight chance someone gets a nomination. But Lindsay Duncan as a lead?? That is funny!
Arya
Maybe I'm stupid or something but I dont recall Lindsay Duncan playing a part in neither "De Patre Vostro" ( for obvious reasons) nor "Philippi". She was brilliant and deserves an Emmy but as a best supporting actress and I think "Death' Mask" was the best episode for her. As for the rest for the submitted actors...the two episodes mentioned above were very good and particulary Polly shined in "De Patre Vostro" but for James, Ray and KMK I would rather pick "Passover", "Son of Hades", "No God can stop a hungry man" or "Neccesary fiction" but that's just me ;)
caia1970
I think it's up to the actor to submit their own episodes so probably "Phillippi" and "De Patrae Vostro" were submitted for the show and Lindsay Duncan will submit different episodes for herself.
Historybabe
I'm glad that Rome is being submitted for Emmys but the show is up against the last season of The Sopranos so it might not go well. Sopranos was my favorite show until Rome came along. I still love it, but watching it is just not as fun as watching the weekly Pullo/Vorenus mayhem and the Antony/Atia snark in Rome. My co-workers feel the same way, we're all probably just going through Rome withdrawal.

As far as the nominations themselves are concerned, I would have put James up for supporting actor, I think he'd have a better chance that way (and certainly deserves to win) because Kevin and Ray are clearly the leads with a lot more screen time. I agree completely with Polly for lead actress, but I concur with others that Lindsay should be in the supporting actress category where she'd also have a better chance of winning.

On a related note I saw Hot Fuzz last night. I haven't laughed that much in a long time, I highly recommend it. I was laughing so hard I was crying at parts of it! And, as a bonus, both Karl Johnson and Kenneth Cranham were in it, and both were funny, Karl especially. He plays a cop who has such a thick West Country (Gloucestershire) accent that others have to constantly translate for him. I hadn't realized that they were in it, or just forgot, so it was a pleasant surprise seeing them. Steve Coogan, Bill Nighy, Paddy Considine, and Jim Broadbent, among others, all pop up as well.
happybumblebee1
Arya, those links....*thud*
Arya
You are welcome. I also almost fainted and I'm sure Ray Stevenson and Kevin McKidd would also faint though not for the same reasons ;)

Movie/tv critic E. Copeland about James Purefoy as Mark Antony:

One thing that is true in both the 1934 and 1963 versions is that the films are much stronger when they focus on Caesar and Cleopatra versus Antony and Cleopatra. The opposite was true of HBO's Rome, which I think actually had a stronger second season than a first, where the Caesar/Cleo chapter seemed somewhat perfunctory, but the Antony/Cleo segments sizzled, though James Purefoy's great work as Antony overshadowed Lyndsey Marshal's as Cleopatra. Purefoy was superb throughout the series' run, but he really soared once the tough schemer became literally unhinged by his obsession with the Egyptian queen. His performance so bests Henry Wilcoxon's in 1934 and Richard Burton's in 1963 that it isn't even close.


Here is the entire article:

http://eddieonfilm.blogspot.com/2007/04/cl...m-34-to-07.html
alisonb
I'd love Bamber and Menzies to have a chance at best supporting actor but the list of contenders is so long they dont have a chance.
oannonian
(Historybabe)
On a related note I saw Hot Fuzz last night. I haven't laughed that much in a long time, I highly recommend it. I was laughing so hard I was crying at parts of it! And, as a bonus, both Karl Johnson and Kenneth Cranham were in it, and both were funny, Karl especially. He plays a cop who has such a thick West Country (Gloucestershire) accent that others have to constantly translate for him. I hadn't realized that they were in it, or just forgot, so it was a pleasant surprise seeing them. Steve Coogan, Bill Nighy, Paddy Considine, and Jim Broadbent, among others, all pop up as well.

What role did Cranham play? Was he one of the Neighbourhood Watch?
Arya
I'd love Bamber and Menzies to have a chance at best supporting actor but the list of contenders is so long they dont have a chance.


As far as I know HBO did not even submit them so they dont have a chance for noms.
Hovewer I think Walker and Purefoy' chances are growing rapidly since the critics are raving about them ( I mean- really raving not like they "rave" about "The Tudors" ;) I dont believe they are going to win since as someone already said this year Emmys are swan song for "Sopranos" but nominations would be a nice enough recognition.
Dispatcherbert
Regarding The Sopranos and the Emmys being its swan song, we can still hope, can't we? By that I mean didn't everyone think that Martin Sheen was a foregone winner when The West Wing was wrapping up? Thank God that people realized if he were going to win, it should've been when the show was actually, you know, good! While I still enjoy The Sopranos, it just doesn't hold a candle to Rome.
Arya
Oh I'm sorry- I was wrong about Bamber and Menzies. They are actually submitted. The all submitted actors are: Purefoy, Stevenson, McKidd ( the best leads), Walker and Duncan ( the best lead actresses), Kerry Condon ( the best supporting actress), David Bamber, Max Pirkis, Tobias Menzies, Simon Woods, Guy Henry and Lee Boardman ( the best supporting actors).
jjfc
I hate the fact that Purefoy is in the "lead" category. I think that hurts his chances because the show isn't that high profile particularly with McKidd and Stevenson splitting the vote. Walker has a strong chance of being nominated.

I may very well be in the minority but as much as I liked Bamber and Menzies, the performance that impressed me the most over the past two seasons was Max Pirkis.
Historybabe
What role did Cranham play? Was he one of the Neighbourhood Watch?


He was, or the NWA as it's called in the film. My friend and I were snorting with laughter when we saw that it was called that! I wonder how many people got that reference or missed it?

As for the Emmys, now I guess it's up to the Emmy committee to decide who actually gets nominated. It's possible to have more than one actor from the same show in the same category, but it's not likely because there are a lot of shows from which to choose great performances, most of them seemingly on HBO. Not just Rome and the Sopranos, of course, but also The Wire and Big Love - I don't think Deadwood is eligible for this year. I'm not sure if Entourage qualifies as a drama or a comedy, I'd guess comedy.
lynch
Not just Rome and the Sopranos, of course, but also The Wire and Big Love - I don't think Deadwood is eligible for this year. I'm not sure if Entourage qualifies as a drama or a comedy, I'd guess comedy.

Deadwood is eligible this year. The parameters for the year are, I believe, June 2006 until May 2007, and Deadwood aired over last summer. Big Love isn't eligible though. It's season aired last Spring, so they already had their shot.
Arya
I hate the fact that Purefoy is in the "lead" category. I think that hurts his chances because the show isn't that high profile particularly with McKidd and Stevenson splitting the vote.


If anyone of them is going to get the votes this will be Purefoy for sure ( not that Ray and KMK were not great but...you know ;) a gem of a role such Purefoy' Antony happens rarely). IMO the most serious candidates are Ian McShane, Hugh Laurie, James Gandolfini, Jason Isaack, Michael C. Hall and Purefoy...so there is a chance.
But who knows with Emmy'voters?
I agree that Polly Walker got the strongest chances.
This would be nice for Max to get a nom but the fact he was only in two episodes does not help.
nichst
Some very, very good news, from caltrask55, in the old Rome on DVD thread:
Whoo Hoo, indeed. Damn near choked on my double salted liquorice lozenge!
azleo
How sweet of HBO. August 14 is just in time for my birthday. Guess what's now on the top of my list.
UnfamousLoser
If you live in the U.S. and get the cable channel BBC America, they're showing Beau Brummell: This Charming Man on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 8:00 p.m. James Purefoy plays Brummell.

For the more lurid-minded among you, there's a scene in which Brummell (Purefoy) has a menage a trois with Lord Byron (played by Matthew Rhys, who plays "Kevin Walker" on Brothers & Sisters) and Some Lucky Bitch Who Isn't Me.
Arya
Here is the recent interview with KMK- talking mostly about "Rome". Unfortunately I dont have the exact link so I'm just going to quote the whole thing here in two parts. Nice one- I particulary liked the bit about James Purefoy ;)

“Poor James. At one point he said, ‘I’m so sick of having to take my f***ing clothes off every episode!’”


Hee. Here is the whole thing.

Here’s one of the leading men of Rome and Rome II, who’s relieved he has got fewer sex scenes in the series than his co-stars. Next week: Interviews with other cast members

By ELIZABETH TAI
starmag-feedback@thestar.com.my

I’M not very interesting,” Kevin McKidd insists. I don’t believe him, of course. But the 33-year-old Scottish actor, known for his role as the honourable Roman soldier Lucius Vorenus in the HBO-BBC series Rome, says that he was a shy, tongue-tied kid who stumbled onto acting because he discovered that he could express himself better as an actor.

Furthermore, he doesn’t think it is an actor’s job to make people interested in them.

“I am not an actor because I want to be a celebrity,” he says in a light Scottish accent.


Despite the tumultuous times in Rome, best friends Lucius Vorenus (Kevin McKidd) and Titus Pullo (Ray Stevenson) hang on to their friendship. – Photos courtesy of HBO Asia
McKidd, who looks decidedly more casual in jeans and white shirt than the very proper Vorenus, is in HBO Asia’s offices in Singapore to promote the second season of Rome, which premieres on regional television next week. (The actor met with the media last Tuesday.)

Thanks to Vorenus’ intimidating presence, one tends to think that McKidd is as intense as the stern soldier. But in real life, McKidd is a light-hearted and talkative fellow whose “vice” is that he’s a bit of a gadget freak. The unpretentious and down-to-earth actor, together with his beautiful, publicity-shy wife, gamely joins us reporters for a pottery-making session at Boon’s Pottery and later for a noisy dinner at Brown Sugar, a fusion restaurant in River Valley Road. Stardom has not quite swelled his head.

“I live a very quiet life, really,” he says. (He makes his home in a cottage in the English countryside with his wife and two children – one aged seven, and the other is five.) He claims that his role in Rome hasn’t changed his personal life much, even though the powers that be behind American television are very interested in his leading man potential (see Rome leads to roles).

Interestingly, McKidd nearly didn’t become Vorenus because he had turned it down when it was first offered to him.

“I thought: ‘American TV show? Nah,’” he says.

Back then, he had been doing lots of independent cinema in Europe, and didn’t know what it meant to star in a HBO original series because the cable channel was not available in Britain. Plus, he didn’t realise that it would be broadcast internationally. If not for his agent, who asked him to reconsider, we may have a very different Vorenus!

“If you look at Rome, it’s a very high-class, high-end soap opera. And I think that’s what keeps people watching.


McKidd sportingly joins in the activity at Boon’s Pottery in Singapore last week.
“Coming from the film world, I used to be snobby about it, but I came to realise that I was in denial. It is a soap opera.”

And a good one, mind you.

Roman adventure

For 179 days in 2006, McKidd had to wake up at 5.30am to get to Cinecittà Studios (in Rome, Italy) to shoot the second season of Rome. Considering that an average 22-episode series takes 160 to 180 days of production, it was certainly a mammoth task to make the 10 episodes of Rome II. The actor recalled working 14-hour (or more) days that often included strenuous battle scenes.

“It’s a boy’s dream come true to ride horses and swing swords, so I will try not to complain,” he says with a chuckle.

“Now, Ray (Stevenson, who portrays Titus Pullo) is a terrible complainer,” he adds cheekily.

The actors had to wear actual chain mail – no plastic ones for them – because the producers wanted the costumes to be as realistic as possible.

“Wearing them for 14 hours was like you’d been in the gym for four hours. Which was great!” he says, laughing.

However, standing around for 14 hours in heavy chain mail didn’t do favours for their feet. The actors absolutely hated the leather sandals they had on because the soles were only half an inch (slightly over 1cm) thick.

“They were agony. Your arches were dropping. And we thought, ‘Why can’t we get Birkenstocks?’ My kingdom for a decent pair of sandals!” he says in jest.

Eventually, they managed to convince the producers to tone down the realism a notch to allow them to wear leather sandals with proper arch support!


Besides its attention to detail, Rome is also famous for pushing the envelope with its brutal battles and steamy love scenes. The producers argue that they needed to portray an era where such debauchery was commonplace and an accepted part of life.

Love scenes are never easy for the actors to act out, admits McKidd. He feels especially sorry for James Purefoy, who plays the womanising Mark Antony.

“Poor James. At one point he said, ‘I’m so sick of having to take my f***ing clothes off every episode!’”

McKidd had fewer sex scenes only because his character is a principled man who is loyal to his wife.

“Those scenes are awkward for an actor to do. There’s not one actor I’ve met – male or female – who has said that they enjoy steamy scenes,” says McKidd.

“They’re embarrassing; you’ve got lights, you’re worried about the way you look ... yuck,” he says, making a face.

“I think I got off lucky,” he chuckles.

A dark turn

But while being Vorenus was fun, McKidd was always aware of the heavy responsibility he had as the lead actor of an expensive production.

“That was quite scary, but it made you stronger in the long run. Now, there’s not much to faze me in this career,” he says.

In Season One, McKidd was very hands-on, and even contributed to the writing process. But it was taking a toll on him after a while.

“It was exhausting, and I wasn’t enjoying myself. And I made a note to myself that I wasn’t going to do that in Season Two, but to focus on my acting.”


Just as well he did for Vorenus was slated to undergo a massive personality change in the second season.


Mark Antony (James Purefoy) and Cleopatra (Lyndsey Marshal) begin a stormy love affair. Doing those love scenes was no joy for Purefoy!
“Vorenus is the kind of man who, no matter what happens, will stick to his principles. It can get frustrating after a while. I had been desperate for him to do something a bit more out of control and out of character,” he says.

He got his wish in Season Two; Vorenus is going to a dark place.

“Vorenus has lost everything in his life and because he has nothing to live for he has a certain power he hasn’t had before ... he’s released from himself,” says McKidd.

“Vorenus wants to die in some bloody battlefield, and because he has no fear of death he becomes strangely invincible and unkillable,” he says.

And that means lots of physically-demanding battles such as the fight between Vorenus and his best pal Titus.

“It was hard, sweaty work for three days in a dark studio, knocking lumps at each other,” he says.

“Ray damaged his thumb. He’s quite accident-prone,” he says, laughing. (Stevenson also fell off his horse thrice and dislocated his shoulder during filming.)

There were also many more emotionally-draining scenes such as the one that involved Vorenus’ children.

“I have children ... and the idea of playing a scene about young children under your care that you allowed to fall into abuse ... the kind of guilt that a parent will feel ... the horrible emotions that you have to go through. That was hard. I know how visceral that emotion would be,” he says.

“There were some days it was almost as if I had given myself a headache because of the level of intensity I had to get to. In real life I’m light-hearted generally, so to get to that place, that kind of intensity, was exhausting,” he relates.

Ironically, after being released from the straitjacket of Vorenus’ principles, McKidd finds that he prefers the Vorenus of Season One.

“He had that innocence that is stripped from him in Season Two. In a way, he was naive, that was one of his faults, but he had ideals he hoped he could live up to. It’s very sad, but you have to open his eyes to the truth so that he becomes less ideal (sic),” he says.

When executive producer Bruno Heller told McKidd that there wouldn’t be a third season, the latter was naturally sad.

“Bruno said, ‘The great thing about this is that they’ve given us 10 episodes and now I can put three seasons worth of storylines all in one intense, 10-episode, kick-a*** season.’

“But it’s much more punchy because we know we have only one season to tell everything,” McKidd says.
Historybabe
Thanks for providing this, Arya. In my former life as a public relations exec I used to have to prep people for interviews, and I can say from a professional perspective that Kevin interviews well. I like that he keeps the discussion to his professional life and doesn't give up too much about his personal life, and he seems to say something different in every interview so that they all don't sound the same. I've read interviews with other actors (not for Rome) where they seem to have said the same thing in every interview, which is boring. Some of those definitely come from junkets (for films) but others aren't. Good for him for keeping it interesting.

FWIW Ray and James seem to do the same as well, they also interview well.
nichst
Thanks for bringing this article to our attention, Arya. A Google News search for Kevin McKidd Elizabeth Tai brought up this link, for those who wish to check out the pics and links to related articles.

ETA: Yay, I'm a Fanatic, at last!
Lu Bu
I was watching "Casino Royale", the new James Bond film, tonight and during one of the film's long, drawn-out, three endings, my mind started to wander and I began thinking that Kevin McKidd would make a great James Bond should Daniel Craig decide to give up the role. He could be the first red-haired Bond.
WannaBeBad2
Imagine James Purefoy as James Bond... A naked, pansexual James Bond.........
wimple
Imagine James Purefoy as James Bond


THAT is a GREAT idea! And how about Pullo as Jaws? I'm going to watch Casino Royale tonight (thanks, NetFlix) so will undoubtably let my imagination fly...
wwhk
Imagine James Purefoy as James Bond... A naked, pansexual James Bond........


Thank you. You've just created my new X-rated happy place. Sigh.
alisonb
Tobias Menzies on the set of Atonement

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/29...034109588gStXKD
Arya
This is the supposedly official Emmy' contenders list- much more selected than the previous one though I dont know how it works.
I have one question- where is James Purefoy?

http://www.geocities.com/licuria/emmy2007.html
Arya
Sorry double post.
Historybabe
Arya, thanks for posting that link. I wonder why James isn't even on the supporting actor list (where he'd have a better chance, anyway)? That's just wrong. I can't say that I've seen many of the other shows, but he's got to be miles better than some of the other candidates, if not all of them, and he's at least as good as Sam Neill and Jeremy Northam, not to mention the Sopranos entrants (of which there are three!). Same goes for Lindsay Duncan, she should have been nominated for best supporting actress. What a shame. I think that maybe actresses get nominated if they employ much histrionics, and that was certainly not Servilia's style. At least Polly Walker's still in the Best Actress category.

I see most of the other categories, such as writing, direction, costumes, etc. have not yet been posted. I'd expect Rome to figure heavily in those.
dustdevil
“Poor James. At one point he said, ‘I’m so sick of having to take my f***ing clothes off every episode!’”


That's funny, because I just watched the Beau Brummell movie on BBC America, and there was a scene with totally unnecessary JP nekkidness. (Well, unnecessary to the plot, but maybe not unnecessary to this particular viewer.)
UnfamousLoser
there was a scene with totally unnecessary JP nekkidness. (Well, unnecessary to the plot, but maybe not unnecessary to this particular viewer.)

The best part: there was an audience of men there to watch Brummell get dressed. (That's right; to watch him dress. For fashion pointers. Not because it was homoerotic, or something).
Belisarius
The Second Season DVD can now be preordered at Amazon for $69.99.
jjfc
Because this argument about Vorenus/VtE will apparently never die (and I admit I played a key role in reviving it).

The point is just that by both the laws and the religion of the time, Vorenus was in fact doing the honourable thing with regard to his family throughout this sequence. He had the legal right to kill his wife for adultery, even though he didn't actually do it. His willingness to accept the boy after he learns who he really is is even going above and beyond, as is his accepting his daughter's part in the deception. Of course by modern standards he's a horrible sexist pig, but it's a historical piece. And by historical standards, his daughter should have considered him a model of enlightened parenthood. Not that there were a lot of role models for that in the series.


First, let me add that I think it's pretty clear that Niobe jumped, and she did not just "fall" over the balcony. I would also add that Niobe did not cheat on Vorenus when he was merely "with the army" he was legally dead.

Second, I'm not sure this is a valid argument. Ancient history is rife with tales of (mostly) young lovers and others flouting supposed conventions and our sympathies are supposed to lie with them. And while these have certainly been punched up by the Romanticists and Shakespeare, they have a definitive ancient lineage. So the idea that Vorenus would be a "model of enlightened parenthood" is questionable. For instance, the written law was that a paterfamilias could sell his children into slavery, but it was generally understood even in those times, that would be a horrible thing to do.

Finally, especially within the context of the show this is a very questionable proposition. To make a comparison with the other main family in the show: At the end our sympathies are supposed to lie with Atia and not Octavian with the "rotten soul" despite the fact that Atia did not yield control of the family over to Octavian. I don't the writers intended for us to be guided in our moral judgments by close adherence to ancient Roman family law.
Basileus
Well, I finally watched the entire season To me, it didn't pack the punch of the first season sadly and I can only think it was because the show was shortened and rushed to get as much in as possible. Perhaps the script was planned for a longer run and they had to do a Reader's Digest condensed version, but what they should have done is just cut some subplots out all together. Timon and his brother, and Gaia. I found I just didn't care about them because there wasn't much time to care.

I enjoyed Atia and Servilia last season, and the beginning of this season was shaping up quite nicely (attempted poisonings, torture of Servilia etc) then Servilia had to go and kill herself. I don't know if that was what was originally intended for the character, but it seemed kind of rushed to me.

I did like Octavian's manipulation of his mother, and how he basically shut her up in a convent for a couple of episodes. Or house arrest. But it struck me as odd that Atia would put up with that sort of treatment, no matter that Octavian was Pater Familiar. It just didn't ring true for the character. I half expected her to pull out her trusty old whip and give Octy a good sound thrashing, which he probably would have liked! But she just sucked it up and took it. Bleh.

No Actium? I know Rome was never big on battle scenes, but I would have liked to have at least seen more about how the break with Antony came about. Not just Octavian giving ONE speech in the senate. That should have developed over a couple of episodes.

Loved Jocasta and Maecenas. HATED Livia! Sian Phillips has nothing to worry about.

Antony was a real stand-out this season though. He had an excellent arc and it was well played by Purfoy. And I loved the last episode. That more than made up for the faults of the season.
Belisarius
Agree with jjfc that what's officially correct and human nature often clash.

Interestingly, though this is one my favorite shows ever, I don't like the characters as a whole (in the sense of wanting to know them as RL people)--they were jerks, whiners, or untrustworthy. That probably ties in, however, with the whole different society/values, etc.--I'd feel differently were I in that universe.

I did like Alfidia (sp?), Livia's mother. A pushy social climber, of course, but still something good-natured about her. Like when, after the Atia/Livia showdown she briefly patted her daughter's back--still naive enough to think Livia would bother having hurt feelings.
Arya
So the idea that Vorenus would be a "model of enlightened parenthood" is questionable. For instance, the written law was that a paterfamilias could sell his children into slavery, but it was generally understood even in those times, that would be a horrible thing to do.


That's true. I also agree that despite what the writers said I dont think EVERY single pater familias would have killed the child his wife secretly had with another man to restore his honor.
Hovewer I dont think many of them- if any at all- would have not only accepted but also loved such a child as their own. Face it- not many men would be able to do so even now. But Vorenus did and it kind of make him a "model of enlightened parenthood". Sort of. Or at least- not as harsh man as he appeared to be.
The same goes to his daughter' deception and the fact that she was forced into prostitution. Yeah we know this was her tragedy. But in that period of time when father would have rather kill his own daughter than allow her to be sexually abused by another man ( the story of Virginius, his daughter Virginia and Appius Claudius) I think it was expected from Vorenus to either kill her or at least keep her completly isolated somewhere away from all the people forever.
But he didnt.
wwhk
I also agree that the way Vorenous behaved was definitely liberal, but I can see plenty of fathers behaving the same way during the time period. However it took Vorenous's tremendous physical and emotional strength, friendship/romance with Pullo, and tremendous guile and intelligence to be as successful as he was. Not many guys could have single-handedly brought the abductor to justice, rescued the children, and ensure that the children were treated with some respect despite their shame. However even with these achievements, Vorenous ended up suffering tremendously. Even with his talents and good conscience, he never got the family life he deserved and desperately wanted. I think this is the ultimate tragedy of the show.
Penny Robinson
Perhaps the script was planned for a longer run and they had to do a Reader's Digest condensed version,

There's an interview with Kevin McKidd that was posted a few pages ago, where he says (paraphrasing) that Rome was supposed to have 3 seasons, and when the writers learned there would be no season 3 they had to fit all the storylines into the 10 episodes that season 2 would have. I'm still pissed that stupid, stupid HBO deprived us from what it could have been. I still liked season 2 a lot though.
I miss Purefoy and his pretty pretty ass.
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