Really good episode! Loved the pics of all the kids...totally noticed she talked about the births more though. She aluded to the fact that Jessa doesn't listen to her. She said she was the one that made them learn more about parenting and that michelle has to repeat a lot of what she says cause she doesn't listen, so thats kinda funny that Jessa seems to be the one that doesn't listen.
Thought she would touch on Josiah's "birth defect" but nothin.. booo, disapointed we didn't get any info on Jinger, and they repeated that whole Johannh scene with Josh, and the words "James' sweet countenence" came up...

The "devil horns" that random j-boy was showing is the sign language sign for "I love you" but its used at concerts and stuff.. so no idea where he got it from.

I also really liked the new backgrounds!!! The all white was too harsh and the colours make it so much better and softer!
next weeks episode looks good, Jim bob at home with the kids going wild.. at least he interacts and lets them climb all over him!

I didn't know that "devil horns" were the sign language for "I love you", but now that makes sense cause I could swear back in the earlier episodes when Smuggar was talking about individual interests, it was mentioned that one or two of the J'girls was learning to sign. Or maybe I'm mixing up the shows LOL

I too loved seeing the the love between Jim-Bob and Michelle. I think they are showing their kids about love and long last marriages. My parents have had a long lasting marriage, and I guess I would want that for my future as well.

Devil Horns are similar to, but not the same as the sign language for "I Love You". To sign "I Love You", you hold up the pinky and pointer fingers (like devil horns), but the thumb is also extended straight out. (the thumb is not visible in "devil horns, it's holding down the two middle fingers).

Was it this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_em_horns

Forgot to mention that I was mighty glad that Spongebob did not burst into song ala our Joshie and the Missus. I also wondered who was singing the song that jmama and Sisterbob wrote for the original wedding. IIRC, the wedding program from the our Joshie's wedding included the jgirls singing, as well as a couple other songs, along with our Joshie's musical tribute. These weddings may not include dancing but it seems like everyone keeps bursting into song, like a Gershwin musical. Which leads me to wonder, did jmama and Spngebob have dancing at their for-real wedding 25 years ago? Lord, I wish they had a wedding video.

Right. The kid was doing the "I Love You" sign, with the thumb out. I think the devil horns "rock" symbol might have started at KISS concerts? I could swear I read that somewhere, but who knows. Anyway, yes, two totally different things.

I wonder why Jana's only a "chatterbox" with her parents? Not even with her sisters?

I actually pretty much liked this episode. Good to have the focus on the kids, and their personalities. I know Michelle said less about some kids, but I'm pretty sure that's due more to editing - I figured we actually have a pretty good idea about the personalities of Jinger and Jackson on down, for example, so they were just paring down for time. Or maybe they felt her birthing stories were more interesting, or something. I know, gag, but they were the ones who asked her about it - and in some instances, it made for interesting stories (when she was remembering, say, the 4th of July parade or why she was scared with the younger twins - NOT the gory details).

The Jinger-and-Jessa confessionals made for good TV - I'd like to see group confessionals with a few kids at a time, more often. I was impressed with what Michelle said about Joseph - seems like he's been making an impression on her. More of him, and as always, more of the older crew - Jana and JD especially!

Gene Simmons may have tried to claim credit, but Ronnie James Dio started it.

(actually, Gene usually does it with the thumb out)

I missed the earlier DA meeting, but will be catching the next one in 10 minutes. Sorry, I was on J'Duggar time.

I did manage to catch the webisodes. Poor J'Anna, waddling in August outside in the heat. I really feel sorry for that girl. And I have noticed that she seems to have this constant "blah" look on her face. You can see it in the SY2TD episode, any of the latest episodes for that matter, and in the pictures. The only time you can't see it was in the "Next J'Generation" webisode when she's with Smuggar. I wonder if she thought that when she was getting married, she would be marrying Smuggar and not his whole family. Poor girl was saddly mistaken.

T-minus 12 days until baby Smugglette's arrival.

Is TLC trying to add another Cousin Oliver to the show? I just can't understand why we keep seeing toilets lately but maybe the theme will become clearer in time.

I hope it was unintentional, or something, but J'Michelle seemed to be blaming some of her babies for not being delivered more easily. Anyone else notice this?

MissBrooklyn, you are so right! It's like there are two Duggar kid molds. I hadn't realized that the twins were different "types", and today was the first I realized how different they look. That's probably because the mass of little boys kind of blends together. But I agree, half the kids have that kind of ... Jessa-face, and half have the other face.

I agree with those upthread who could have done without all of the childbirth descriptions. Michelle really seems to identify much, much more with the pregnancy/delivery of each child, than with the raising of the child. I mean, it's pretty obvious why: she didn't raise them, but I still thought it was striking. If you asked my ma to describe her kids (only 4), I don't think our birth stories would have shown up there. Michelle could have been prompted that way, I guess. Actually, she knew more about most of the kids than I would have guessed.

Well in all fairness, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer and Jordyn are all still pretty young (even though more was said about Johannah...did anyone find her introducing herself so cute?? I don't know what it is. Maybe how she said it.), and sometimes it takes time to figure out a child's personality. I know not all babies are totally alike, but often until a child is at least two he or she will usually just eat, sleep and cry for their basic needs. That being said, even though they asked about the children's births, Michelle could've gone into more detail about the kids themselves than going into how excited she was (borderline preaching) about natural births. If you asked my mom for stories about me and my brother, she probably would've given some quick facts about our births and had more to say about us growing up. However, it was neat (sorry! lol) finding out that the majority of them were natural births...and was it Jessa that they said was 10 pounds?! Holy crap!

I didn't catch the boy doing the I love you sign/devil horns, but yes, devil horns have the thumb turned inward, and "I love you" has the thumb protruding. I was just teaching them to my dad on Saturday. :P

Wow, I don't think that I have ever seen Jedidiah and Jeremiah side-by-side (at least not while I was paying attention) and I never realized how different they look from one another. I know that fraternals aren't more closely related than any other set of siblings but it's still funny to see the twins further apart in looks than any of the other siblings, imo.

The kids' intros were cracking me up. Joseph never actually said his name and Jennifer just made that face.

What does Michelle mean when she says the recovery time is quicker with a natural birth? I had epidurals with both my kids and went home from the hospital the next day.

I'm scheduling an emergency DA meeting right away. I didn't look at TWoP for a day, and I had 5 pages to catch up on!

Moving on... I completely agree with the previous posters regarding giving "nicknames" as actual names. It bothers me to no end! I have a niece named Katie (short for Katie), so I call her Kate out of sheer spite that her parents named her that. Still not as bad as JordYn or MackYnzie.

I was also going to say that Ronnie James Dio started the "hook and horns," but someone beat me to that one, too. I do have one thing to say that hasn't already been covered... Man, the Duggar-obsessed sure are thorough! :)

Regarding the Josh and Anna webisode: What is the point of Anna getting Pregnancy photos? First, she is going to be spending the better part of the next 25 years pregnant. People probably will be more surprised at how she looks when she stops having babies. And second, why get maternity photos taken if one is too "modest" to show the belly? I mean, I did my maternity pics for both pregnancies in the nude, which I know is not for everybody, but having yourself photographed looking pregnant and miserable with ugly flour-sack looking clothes to boot just seems like a waste of resources.

I was going to say money before I realized that they didn't pay for it!

Re: Jedidiah and Jeremiah

Oh, wow! Jeremiah and James look more alike than Jeremiah does with his own twin! Jamesy-bug is a cutie, definitely, but I worry about that kid. Why did no one stop him from climbing up the ladder to hang off the basketball hoop? Joseph, I think, is going to end up being the real catch of the Duggar men. I just wish we got to see more of him.

"Josh is definitely our firstborn (pause) son." Um, was there doubt on either of those counts, Michelle? And please please please for the love of all that's holy, remember that your viewers are not six and we do realize that babies are not carried in women's "tummies."

Was it me or did Michelle sound thisclose to yelling when they were taping up that ridiculous white backdrop thing?

I think, for Michelle, there's either "natural" childbirth or C-section, and the recovery time from a vaginal birth is considerably less, I've heard. Who knows, maybe the rest of them weren't entirely "natural" but Michelle wasn't comfortable with saying "vaginal."

Pennybrooke ~ I always thought "natural" meant no epidural or pain meds. Totally not disagreeing with you, BTW, but that's how I understood it...

Definitely not for me, though ! I'd no sooner do that than have a "natural" root canal !!! Hell, I want a morphine drip with the dial turned up to eleven just to sit through this show sometimes... ;)

On Josh and J'Annas' preggers pix video, Scott the camera man. In 20/20 show, Scott the camera man. Does this mean that he is the camera man that Jana seems to positively glow at when she looks his way? Are the Duggars trying to clue us into the engagement coming up in January when she turns 20? Hope, Hope, Hope. And hope Scott is more mainstream.

Pennybrooke - you are absolutely right. She meant c-section vs vaginal birth. Thanks for the clarification. I thought Michelle was implying she was up Cooking and cleaning the day of the birth!

I noticed Jichelle referred to the butcher paper in the backdrop as being like a "run through poster". Guess she's harkening back to her cheerleader days!

I have to say I liked the new intro with the different colors behind the jkids. Makes it much more interesting.


I was thinking that while I was watching the first bit. While it was nice to listen to J'Chelle talk about each child individually, minus poor Jinger, it was still a bit odd that she gave more information regarding the birth than the actual jchild. IIRC, the producer asked J'Chelle about the jkids first and then the births. I'm hopping on the Idle Speculation Bus to say that I think these interviews revealed more evidence about J'Chelle's baby addiction and how she cares more about the newborns and their first 6-8 months of life. I do have to wonder as to why J'Chelle didn't even really talk about Jinger other than the fact that she was the first home birth. I wonder if the J'Duggars are driving their own Speculation Bus and wondering if she'll be the first one to break from the fold, and J'Chelle was uncomfortable talking about Jinger's sense of independence.

JimSponge kneeling in the bathroom was just tacky and borderline disgusting. Ugh.

I have to laugh though that the decorating scenes. J'Chelle was totally about to yell at Sponge about using that tape. And then again when he was holding the ladder and it made her nervous? Loved it. Maybe deep down, Sponge is just an insecure little boy who is scared of women. It also makes me happy thinking that maybe J'Chelle has some spunk and spirit left. One could almost argue that Sponge is whipped! Now that would be hilarious.

As much as I hate to say, I think that I, too, have dipped into the vat of Kool-Aid. It's obvious that J'Chelle and Sponge love each other, and I was touched that Sponge actually teared up during the ceremony. That being said, I don't agree with all the hoopla of having essentially another wedding. That was just. not. necessary.

I have one final note regarding the older jkids. J'Chelle noted that Jana was a huge talker when she was younger but now only really talks to J'Chelle and Sponge. I wonder if she's constantly talking to them because she's got a thing for the offspring of Hot Fundie Gil also known as Zach. Maybe she's a motormouth when she talks about him to her jparents about how she thinks that G-d is telling her this is the one, she really likes him, etc., but is quiet and composed around the other jkids all while thinking of the hotness that is Zach. Ok, I need to hop off the Idle Speculation Bus before I crash it.

Awww, gotta admit I loved the vow renewal. I thought it was a bad idea when I realized it was all TLC's idea and poor Michelle had been bullied into wearing a Kleinfeld's gown, BUT the Duggar's wrested back control at the last minute and had a lovely renewal.

I loved how Jim Bob admitted he wasn't even thinking about kids when he married Michelle, he just wanted her. And Michelle sure didn't seem embarassed about the timing of their first kiss with her eagerness to tell the story. The kids really are fortunate have their parents as an example of a marriage full of love, and not obligation.

I only hope that the Duggar children have the same choice to marry for love and not obligation.

Actually, I think the reference was that Jana was not being a chatter box "anymore", except to her parents. I didn't take it that she was not talking to anyone other than her parents.

The senior Duggars certainly seem to have a lot of "new iron" on the road. The dually pickup J-bobble was driving when they picked up the cake, whos "scene clacker" was dated July 23rd, btw, and the 15 passenger van Michelle drove to the church are higher dollar rides. Know Smug has a "previously owned" car lot but don't think they came from there. I've seen numerous, much newer vehicles in the drive at the Erector Set house, presumably one or two would be from the film crew.

Did anyone else notice Johannah during the shot of her on top of the golf cart? She was wearing a pink and orange babydoll top/dress that the gosselin sextuplet girls wore during their photoshoot :O

Pics of the dress:
http://gosselins.sosugary.com/albums/Photo...sonfive/015.jpg
http://gosselins.sosugary.com/albums/Photo...sonfive/012.jpg

& I've also noticed that in next weeks episode preview...all the younger kids seem to be picking on Jennifer. Poor little girl.

Most women do have a shorter, easier recovery after a vaginal birth than after a c-section. That can depend, though, on whether or not the mom has an episiotomy. Some mothers find that an episiotomy is more painful than a c-section incision. Furthermore, many moms find the recovery easier with a truly natural birth than the typical hospital vaginal birth with lots of interventions. Maybe it's just the high that comes with a natural birth.

Jessa weighed in at 10 lbs and was face up. Daughter Day, "Big whoop, she'd already had her vagina stretched by other births. Try pushing out a 12 lb 3.5 ozer face up on the first one. I'd could go toe to toe with her on pushing times."

I was pleasantly surprised that J'chelle knew so much about each childs' personality. And after the sweet renewal, TLC should just back off and let the Duggars show us the Duggars! And the Bateses, too!

More, more, more, more of Johannah and extra servings of Jennifer, if you please.

I wonder how much of the younger boys hyperbehavior and misbehavior is due to the cameras. They all seem to have regressed to being normal kids instead of the little robots they were in the early specials.

Questions to Jessa and Jinger about their parents love for one another, priceless. Just goes to show, in a warm and caring heart love grows and knows no boundaries. (So much for not dating and saving that limited amount of love for the right one. Which begs the question, if the amount of love in ones' heart is limited, wouldn't having so many children mean you would run out of love for the last dozen or so?)

This episode felt like a shout-out to TWoP! We have certainly wondered whether Michelle could tell us something about each child, though I have to give her a C-/D+, unless editing is to blame for the extreme brevity of some and the altogether lack of others.



I have to completely disagree. I could have easily bored you to tears with rapt descriptions of Little Hippy's personality by the time she was Jordyn's age, and so could any other mother I know. And any child (free of disabilities and whatnot) who didn't do much more than eat, sleep and cry well before the age of 2 would have me extremely worried.



Is that even possible with the type of courtship they subscribe to? It's so unfair for Boob and UU to think that the J'kids will be able to find the kind of love their parents have with someone they can't be alone with or have a private conversation with before the wedding, and then to immediately get knocked up and add the fun of pregnancy and a newborn to the mix of getting to know each other. The mind boggles. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly doesn't stack the cards in your favor. The jury's out for me with Smuggar and J'Anna because they're still in the puppy love phase, in my humble O.



This is something that has bothered me since we first learned their views on dating and courtship. It makes absolutely no sense, especially when you consider how in love Jim Bob and Michelle are. Do they honestly think their marriage is tainted for not having courted? Blah. It seems as though they'd not want to have friends either. How does that work? What happens if you have a close friend whom you love dearly, and then lose to a falling out? Didn't that happen with that other fundie political family whose name I can't remember? Are you able to recover pieces of your sometimes multiplying, sometimes non-multiplying heart then?

During the clip of Jinger's driving lesson, when they showed a far shot of the pickup she was driving, was that a price written on the windshield?

Yes to the price on the windshield of the "driver's ed" truck. Do the senior Duggars still own THEIR car lot?

Poor Anna. Can you project into the storm of emotions that have come in to play and massive adjustments that girl has had to make in 12 short months? Think about it. Coming from a reserved, closed family. No dating. No boy/girl "stuff"; touchy-feely, exploring, etc, straight to marrying Smuggar. With her Ma so far away.
"You want to put WHAT? WHERE?"
Oh yeah. She probably was just starting to figure some of that lovin' stuff out when one of his smug little swimmers reached its objective and, her hubby tells her she's preggers. Neat. (Brain bleach time)

I am a retired RN, with 4 kids raised and on their own and I enjoyed the sexual revolution so I'm pretty experienced (wink, wink) DOWN THERE. Good DoG people! The first time I experienced an internal ultrasound, I was MORTIFIED! Can you imagine how that poor girl must have felt? Holey socks, y'all. First one "thing" and then another.
And now with all the crazy hormones raging and the whole Duggarness of the last 12 months plus the hideous MIL preggers suit for the vow removal, I think she's entitled to look chronically snarly. Thank DoG for the 80 days off after Mackynzieye arrives.
Bless her heart.

Yes there was a price. I'm pretty sure it came from Smuggar's car lot. That whole thing he has going on there makes me wonder how many cars he's actually selling. It seems like every so often we, the humble viewers, see a new car with a price tag being driven around (jurisdiction swap epi, double date epi, Jinger driving epi). I wonder how Smuggar's potential customers feel when they look at a car knowing that it has been driven often before coming into their possession? Not only that, but we don't know how much extra wear and tear all Smuggar's usage is putting on said vehicle. I know that car lot owners have to test drive each acquired car, but that seems a bit ridiculous with me.

Personally, I'm wondering where the VW bug that J'Chelle and JimSponge drove off in came from. Smuggar said that it was his, but I highly doubt that it actually belongs to him. I'm betting that it was yet another car lot car that Smuggar used for his own personal use. For that matter, does Smuggar actually even own a car...as in the title is in his name and not the car lot's name? Or does he just drive any car he wants off the lot for a few days?

Scott is married. During one of the episodes (might have been the Christmas nativity parade episode), he showed up at the Duggar house w/ his wife and family because he was traveling for Thanksgiving. (The Christmas parade was in early December, the 7th, I think).

I hope she was just sweaty from running around playing, and that wasn’t greasy hair. She just looked disheveled, and un-kept. Lately, we’ve only seen tired/cranky/whiny shots of Jennifer.

Better to do a small-scale renewal than go to Hawaii, fake it and file for divorce months later. Whatever else we may think of them, JB and Michelle very,very obviously love each other.

Very interesting that the one kid who really breaks the mold (Jinger) gets the short shrift in the personality profiles. Maybe they're so used to everyone else pretty much toeing the Duggar line that they really don't know what to say about her.

Has anyone noticed that the boys were "sleeping" in their clothes? This isn't the first time that I've seen that. I assume that this means they are re-enacting waking them up rather than actually showing it. And the one boy had no sheets on his bed.
I have been thinking about all the details about the births that were given. In some ways, Michelle's biggest accomplishment is her giving birth to so many kids. (It would be very strange to have this be something that you were famous for). She has spent so much time being pregnant, giving birth, and nursing that it really is a huge part of her life. Most women do it for a short period of their lives and then move on to other stages, but Michelle is defined by it. It's kind of funny because she has a real estate license, an insurance license, helped with the family businesses, and wrote a book as well doing speaking engagements, press, and a TV show. But all of that gets subsumed under the banner of "true womanhood" which really seems to be more about ignoring those aspects of womens' lives that don't fit within the narrow path of motherhood and marriage.
To get an idea what some of the older girls might think about all the chores, there is a website by a woman who was raised this way called Quivering Daughters. It's nice to hear it from a different perspective rather than the rosy Jim Bob approved version.
Quivering Daughters

Did anyone catch a few times when getting ready for the ceremony Michelle didn't use her sweet voice?? lol

Why was Anna not really shown at all? I could only see part of her face from behind Michelle.

I too noticed Michelle wasn't really descriptive of her kids personalities. She was just recounting her births with them, which they did ask but they also wanted to know the kids personalities.

We finally didn't have a fraud... the cake shop poster was correct!

Oh just watched the repeat of the San Fransico trip. Jana must have colored her hair it was much darker!

From Jinger on down, she really didn't say anything too specific about any of the kids, other than maybe Jeremiah (who likes to draw). They're all special, neat (ok she didn't use this one, but I had to put it in here), have energy, love life, etc. etc. I get that it's hard for the really little ones whose personalities haven't quite developed yet, but she could've put more details into all of the kids through Jason, at least. It seemed like she kept veering off into the details of the birth of each one, which is probably all she can remember about them.

I loved when they had the kids introduce themselves. Jinger and Joseph had me cracking up.

Sisterbob (love the name!) and Oliver, IIRC from reading it somewhere. No offense to Sisterbob, but if that song was any indication of the way she really sounds, I'm surprised she has any kind of career as a singer. Oliver, too. Nice enough, but nothing my daughter's high school choir couldn't have accomplished.

Re the episode: I would have loved more hearing about all the kids, less wedding. Did anyone else notice how much toddler Jana looked like Johannah?

Amen to that one! One thing I have to give the Duggars credit for also is that they seem the same as they did from the first special, like them or not. I am sure they have enough money to have nannies, maids, etc. but they still act down to earth. Now, if Michelle cuts her hair into a rooster tail in the back I will start to worry.

James must be a hellion....from a torn regular or plastic sheet a few weeks back to nothing at all on the mattress this week....

Kind of disturbing that he shares my first and middle names but I guess I've have to learn to deal with it.

ITA. That was SO sweet. I'm afraid JimBob was whipped from the start.

In the beginning when Joy was waking the boys up, did anyone notice how a couple of the boys had those utility fans (blowers?) on their beds? Weird!

My old fartiness kicked in and I fell asleep 25 minutes into the epi. However, I did see her begin to talk about her kids and I gotta say, Josh was one cute baby. But as I looked at his darlin' baby pic, I just felt sorry for him for having to go from conservative but normal but ultra-fundamentalist and the heavy burdens on his young shoulders. Other than that, I only remember myriad baby pictures.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! That was despicable on their part (JK8).

JD still my fave but Joey is coming up fast! Did I do the math right? Is he only 14?!?!?! I am feeling really icky about myself now.

Pennybrooke, if you're right, and to Michelle "natural" = "comes out through the hoo-hoo, drugs or not," then I take back what I said last night about being impressed by her.

Yep, he's only 14 though he's coming up fast on 15. I always kind of associate him with JD since they tend to look and act so similar (imo) and then I remember that there are the 3 girls in-between them.

Love Johannah! Can I have her? I promise I'll give her back after we go see Geoffrey the Giraffe and buy lots of toys and spend a day at the zoo.

Surely Jennifer was just having an off day; I can't imagine the J-slaves going long without washing her hair, etc.

It looks like Joy prefers just Joy, but Michelle seems to call her Joy Anna.

I still have a hard time keeping all the kids straight personally. Argh!

Showing at ten weeks? Wow.

From upthread:

When my friend Jessica and I met them a while back at Silver Dollar City, we talked to Michelle a little while. Of course, there was mention that we are both J's too. We joked that they could add a Jessica to the pack, but Michelle said that while that name had been considered, it was too close to the names they had already. Then she laughed and said that they hadn't thought that through in the past. So apparently they do realize the similarities and are trying to avoid that.

In news from long ago, I keep seeing references to Josh's behavioral problem from long ago. Is there a place or a post I can read to get all the details?

That reminds me: what was that fan on the top bunk when Joy-Anna went to wake up (I think it was) Jason?

LOL...still not enough to remove the ick factor.

I don't know, maybe whoever owned that bed just likes to sleep with a fan on? I know I do, even in the dead of a New England winter.

Maybe the fans are some kind of Gothard-inspired thing we're not familiar with. Brother Gothard has come up with some funky rules before this. Re: jmama and little James, she kept remarking on his sweet little countenance (with very little attention given to his typically Max-you-wild-thing! behavior).I guess she has actually looked at him, because he really does look different than all his jsiblings. His face is wider and rounder, and his eyes are set farther apart than the others. Weird. Also, I distinctly remember, duringthe On the Road special, Jamesy hopping up on the counter behind jmama without her noticing, and chiming in on the conversation with the unseen voice about whether or not the trailer would make it. James, you wild thing!

Well, it's all speculation. Maybe most of her vaginal births were without meds. I think she emphasized that Jessa was "totally natural" or something like that, implying that maybe Jill and Josh weren't, but who knows, maybe every one after Jessa was. The 80s were certainly a heyday of all-natural birth, and she was having home births by Jinger, which is actually kind of early in that trend.