The first episode shown, but the 2nd made. Gorram Fox.

Still does a decent, if rushed job of introducing everything. Maybe it would have been better to spread out the intros over a few eps, instead of jamming it into this one. Then again, they could have split up the original 2 hour episode too.

The first time I saw that ep I made note of how much the Alliance troops' armour looked like those in Starship Troopers. Kept expecting to see giant bugs wandering around behind them!

It's because it's the same armour. Joss mentioned it in a commentary I think(?). They just borrowed it from the studio or something.

Hilarious commentary on this one, with Joss and Tim Minear still clearly bitter about having to come up with this rushed second pilot over the weekend. Interesting bit: at one point Tim asks if The Train Job would have ever been written had the pilot been the first to air, and Joss says he thinks so, as he really considers a show's first six episodes to be its pilot, though he obviously wouldn't have been as exposition heavy otherwise. Neither mentions the real reason, though: it introduced Niska, and the episode where he returned was also where River displayed her freaky targeting ability. It probably wouldn't have been too difficult to get her to show it another way, but the continuity porn really helped me get into the events more.

damn double post

This was the episode where I first muttered, "Damn, Wash's arms look good in that shirt." The shirt/vest was sleeveless. . .and damn, his arms looked good.

This was the episode where I first muttered, "Damn, Wash's arms look good in that shirt." The shirt/vest was sleeveless. . .and damn, his arms looked good.

I think I may be the only person who thinks this, but I kind of like it better as a pilot. I hate to side with FOX, but when I've showed "Serenity" to people they don't really get it. By "train job" they're into it. Serentity is good and all, but it seems both too slow and too fast to me. Granted, it was bitchy of FOX to meddle, but I think Train Job is really pretty great.

I'm not sure if I'd be able to pick up all the right information without it, but I definately like it better.

Okaaaaaay. Just finished 'Train Job'.

Overall impression, I liked it, even if they moralise hard about returning the drugs and then brutally murder the other bad guys left, right and centre. I hate ambiguous bad guys. (Ooh, look, Spike has a soul now!)

But other than my own issues, let's get to the nitty gritty.

From what I am led to understand, this was shown before Serenity? That would have left me a little out in left field, I think. I mean, I am confused enough about Simon and River (zzzzzzzzz) exist, and why the Shepherd is hanging around a den of disrepute (-I know, he believes in their moral fibre, and they are all good souls!), but without watching the pilot first, I wouldn't have known *why* they were on the ship at all.

Story: Great story, I loved the train heist, although it seemed too fast and easy, it still works as great tv. I would have preferred a little more complication in the heist, and less time talking to the Russian Mafia (and why does he have Giles' table lamp? Seriously, that damn lamp was very distracting, even if it wasn't the exact lamp, it was close enough for me to focus on getting a good look at it for most of that scene!)

Given that I have now seen 2 episodes and both times Mal has pissed off the big bad, how successful can he be at thieving? How many Worlds are there that don't have commonality amongst the crime world. People talk, for goodness sake! All the Crime Lords get together and decide that if they are going to lose 10 henchmen and *still* not get the job done, they might all decide to *not* accept Captain Mal's offers of work.

I think that Jayne is becoming my favourite unlikeable character ever! Doped up Jayne? Awesome!

The Companion has nice character interaction with the Shepherd, and also with Kaylee.

Simon, I could care less about, but I will reserve judgement.

Riv....zzzzzzzzzzz...

Last scene, I loved, LOVED the shoot 'em up on the ship, and Mal's casual "Damn!" before booting the big guy into the turbine engine, followed up with the next guy saying, "Yeah, yeah! Definately got it! Best for all parties..." Hee! Awesome.

Ooh, the men in black want River back. Hopefully, Mal will give her to them. No? Oh well, maybe they would take a Buffy Season 5 Dawn instead.

Erratic. Spike gets a soul? You really need to stop spoiling Buffy for me.

I can't believe you think River is boring - I love her. I loved Simon's expository "You know, we're on a ship???" Best thing ever.

The train heist is lots of fun, and I loooved Zoe pretending to be married to Mal. "Yes, sir. Honey." Lol. But her real husband is the bestest character ever - I love Wash so much and you didn't even mention him :-(

I love Jayne's chain of command speech, and I was quite proud of Simon for drugging him.

And yes, the pilot episode was shown three months after this one. I will never ever stop hating Fox for it.

I didn't mention Wash, but he didn't really do much this episode. I like the actor and I love "Steve the Pirate" from Dodgeball, so I am sure that I will eventually be on the Wash Train.

Maybe River will grow on me too, but given that I barely remember her from the movie, (and didn't she have an important part in that?), I don't hold out much hope. Wait. Is she a key or something?

Oh good. I wasn't the only one who noticed the similarity.

The Train Job is one of those episodes that I kind of forget about how much I love it when I haven't watched it for a while. It had so many great moments.

- I adore Kaylee's little "Oh hell no" when Simon asked if they had done a train heist before.

-A lot of Zoë being awesome which is always good.

- It was mentioned before, but I must say it again that guy getting kicked into the engine. One of my favorite moments of all time.

- And because I'm just as big a Wash fan as JerseyGirl the delivery of "Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" never fails to make me happy.

River does get better. She just takes forever to do so. She has a few scenes that I like pretty early on (in Shindig and Jaynestown) but doesn't get really interesting untill War Stories. The movie is pretty much all about her story.

You know, I meant to mention that! It is almost impossible for an actor to successfully pull off the ever cheerful optimist without ODing on saccharine. Kaylee is awesome! I buy into her completely!

But. If she hooks up with Simon I will be unforgiving. I do not want 'Ships on the ship! It's all I ask.

I love her "But I think it's gonna work" and the look of utter...horrified disbelief that Simon has on his face as she says it.

JerseyGirl, I'm totally with you on this one. I absolutely love River. She breaks my heart so hard. I didn't really get her the first time I saw this episode (as I was one of those poor souls watching this "live" on Fox and was like, "Who are all these people?"), but by the end of the teaser of Bushwhacked, I was hooked. And it only got better.

But the crew aren't really bad guys. They're more ambiguous good guys. They're slightly tarnished, but still have hearts of gold. Except Jayne. He's pretty much morally deficient.

Yeah, I was kinda using the term 'Bad guys' as morally disfunctional people. They are thieves and killers with "hearts of gold" - the staple of good t.v.

I understand it, but I don't necessarily like it.

That being said, I *do* like these characters a lot so far... (except River)

River doesn't really get a chance to shine until we get Tam-centric episodes, of which there are three. You're coming up on one soon: Safe. It might change your opinion on Simon too!

That's funny, because I hated Kaylee with a mind-numbing passion (well, not really, she just bugged me. A lot) and Simon was my favorite character - probably because I am an ex-nerd who was persecuted in high school. River gets more interesting as she comes into her own, but in the first few episodes, she seems to function more as a plot mechanism than as a person.

Erratic, why don't you want 'ships on the show? I'm just wondering. And Zoe/Wash don't count, right? Because they win the JerseyGirl award for cutest couple ever, followed by Xander/anyone (by this, I mean Anya, Cordy, and Willow for those four episodes), and Veronica/Logan, on good days of course.

I think River gets really fascinating by "Safe," because the "Yeah, but she's our witch scene" is the cutest scene ever. Just making sure, but "Ariel" and "Objects in Space" are considered the other Tam-centric episodes, right?

Kaylee is so cute whenever she exists. I kinda love her. Not that I don't love everyone else, but still. But her comment to Simon in this episode (see? topic!) was adorable.

Jayne is great the way he is - not on the "mission" like Mal or Zoe, but just there for the money. I love it!

Oh I totally forgot about Safe when I was talking about when River got interesting. It's actually that great dance she does in Safe that totally cemented my love for her.

Oh right topic... um I already mentioned that Zoë was awesome didn't I. Well whatever I'll do it again:

Mal: Hell, this job I would pull for free.
Zoë: Then can I have your share?
Mal: No.
Zoë: If you die can I have your share?
Mal: Yes.

Also I agree with JerseyGirl Zoë/Wash is the best couple in pretty much the history of ever. Actually I also agree with her about Xander couples.

Many fans consider this the weakest episode, given that it was slapped together in a few days after Fox informed Joss and Tim that the pilot would not be airing. So there's all kinds of little stuff meant to introduce observant viewers to the whole history of the setting (the opening shot of an Asian dance entertainment in a western bar) and all nine (!) regular characters. Needless to say, it didn't quite work out that way.

Xander is a disfunctional boyfriend and can never be counted as half of a cute couple!!!!

Dammit! I just broke my promise to myslef to not reference any more Buffy in here!

Zoe and Wash are established and comfortably married, therefore they are not counted as a 'ship, but just as a couple, and Yes! they are cute!

JG - You have been *dying* to black bar me for months, haven't you? Well, it won't work, I am NOT intrigued/curious/twitchy to look in the slightest!!! I will *not* be spoiled!

Sure, Erratic, I totally believe you. And I have just been *dying* with the spoiler-tag, so consider it payback. The phrase "black bar" as a verb makes me laugh, so maybe I'll continue to do it.

You are allowed to reference Buffy if I do first, okay? And Xander is totally adorable with his girlfriends when he is adorable, but not when he's not. (Because that makes so much sense.) Xander/Cordelia scenes were one of the best things about season two.

And because I can totally do topic, I love the first scene in "The Train Job." Imagine that you had no idea what was going on, because this was the first ep aired, and a spaceship came out of nowhere after a barfight. That would be so randomly awesome!

It was pretty damn awesome. However, my favorite part of the teaser was Mal saying, "This is why we lost, you know. Superior numbers." And Zoe just says straight, "Thanks for the reenactment, sir." I remember thinking that was one cool woman.

And further on that note, Tim Minear mentions on the cmmentary that Mal getting thrown through the holographic window is the entire show summed up in one shot.

River grows on you. Like moss. I actually think she's similar to Dru on BtVS -- I don't know if you were around when the show originally aired, but people hated her in season two. They thought she was batshit crazy and boring, while Spike was marginally more interesting. Her nonsensical verbal stylings did not make for the popular. But now, after a hellava lot more seasons, she's considered probably one of the most kick-ass characters in the Buffyverse.

I hated River in the beginning, but by the last episode that aired, I kinda loved her.

ah, "The Train Job" -- this was one of the episodes shown in a movie theater -- the Parkway Speakeasy in Oakland, CA -- along with the pilot and it's so cool to see the characters projected on a movie screen and to watch with a few hundred true fans. And the moment when Mal kicks Niska's minion into the engine? People go crazy, dude.

Oh, I am so jealous! That sounds like a lot of fun. Why did they do that?

uptoolate1966, the Parkway Speakeasy does a Joss Whedon night every other month, alternating between Buffy nights -- they play 3 episodes, and always the musical -- and Firefly. They're running through the FF episodes in order, and next screening is sometime in March, I think.

It's pretty cool. The night I went, the theater was packed, and it's very different watching the episodes with so many people who are obviously fans. Plus, the place has couches and serves beer and pizza and nachos, so it's just a relaxed night.

Erratic, I hated River for the entire run of the show. I don't even remember when she started to grow on me--it might have been when the last episode, "Objects in Space," aired, or it might have been when I started rewatching the series. Either way, I love her now, and it's weird to think of a time when I didn't, even though she was quite annoying in the first few episodes. (FWIW, I never really liked Drusilla.)

I also hated Book, and I still don't like him in the series, but I do like him in the movie, possibly because he has such a small role. The only character I started out liking and then began to hate is Inara; I was a Mal/Inara 'shipper for awhile, but now I think their non-relationship is one of the weakest aspects of the show. And she's gorgeous, but she looks like Lana Lang*, which doesn't exactly work in her favor.

*Many people will vehemently deny this, but it's true, I tells ya.

Lady Agnew, thanks so much for this, we are going next week! Right in our back yard and never would have known if not for you. I'll report back (maybe in a different thread, though).

So I'm not sure how this episode would have worked as a pilot, but I definitely loved it. The Train heist was very cool, and I loved the wittiness of Mal the entire episode. "Were there monkeys? Evil Space monkeys?" and "Do you have time to do my hair?" cracked me up.

Kaylee is definitely an enjoyable character in all her happy glory. I loved her excitement over doing crime. I'm also sort of confused at the relationship her and Inara have, but I guess it's just a really close friendship?

Zoe/Mal are awesome, and I loved her in the beginning scene (well I loved that whole scene, with the thrown through the holographic window and Jayne just sitting there all "I didn't fight in any war" but then he helped. I would have been beyond confused if that had been the first scene I had ever seen of this show however.)

Jayne cracks me the hell up. He's so sarcastically shifty, and I love it. They should drug him up more often, he can at least still shoot a gun while being all high. Wash's "Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" followed later by Kaylee's "We tried to get him to the infirmary, he's just...heavy" had me laughing.

I'm going to take your word that River gets better JerseyGirl because right now she just annoys the hell out of me. I mean, I know she's all confused, but she's almost more annoying than Fred was in the beginning.

The Crime lord guy this episode was way scarier/believable as evil than Patience or whatever last episode (who I couldn't get past the fact that it was Mrs. Feeny/The Deam from "Boy Meets World") Wow, dude went through the engine...eww and cool.

I like that the crew is just trying to get along, not living by alliance rules, but not wanting to hurt innocent people either through their jobs.

I really disliked the Mal/Inara relationship. Even with how short the show's run was, that subplot really overstayed its welcome to the point that I felt like screaming "Would you two do SOMETHING and put us all out of your misery?"

Yeah, I believe Kaylee and Inara became best friends being the only girls on a ship besides Zoe, who always hangs out with the guys.

You mean you didn't love the "Mal - bad. In the latin" scene? I love River there. It just is so much fun. I think this episode wouldn't have worked as a pilot, especially with all the clunky exposition they had to put in. (SIMON: You know, we're on a ship....) I love that line, though, so much.

I love the whole train heist thing - Zoe and Mal being "married," Jayne with his "chain of command," and Kaylee's excitement over the heist.

The moral ambiguity of Mal and the crew is kind of awesome.

And River gets better, I promise!

I consider the next episode to be one of the weakest of the series, but it has a "Checkpoint" like interrogation scene that is absolutely wonderful.

Ah, I love the next episode. Partially for the interrogation scenes, but mostly because that was really the episode when I fell for River. I didn't know what to make of her in this episode (I was one of the "lucky" few watching it on Fox), but then it was all over.

I have to say, the first time I watched this episode, I was completely confused. If I wasn't already a fan of Joss', I probably would have turned it off because of how confused I was. I was like, "What Joss? Buffy and AtS get exposition episodes where the fans can get used to the universe, and with Firefly I just get thrown in head first?" For all the great scenes like Mal telling Zoe, "This is why we lost, you know. Superior numbers", and her dry retort "Thanks for the reinactment, sir", there were scenes that I just had no clue what to do with. I'm happy I stuck around though. And even happier I stole my friend's friend's DVDs the day they were released.

It's also mentioned in the commentary that the people watching the show as it aired must have been completely confused by the shot of River in the box from the credits. Not to mention Fox's heavy promoting of that scene before the series aired.

Once again, new fan discovering the series for the first time. I've seen the BDM, and now I'm going back to see what happened to these characters that I loved before the movie.

So, this episode was great. Not a good episode to introduce the viewers to the 'verse (WTH Fox?), but still a good episode. I loved the bar fight, with Mal, Zoe, and Jayne standing there cornered, then... BOOM! Up comes Serenity!

I liked the whole thing with the train job. Going through the trouble of stealing it, the train getting stopped (Yes, I was freaking out for Mal and Zoe when the soldier came into the train with their cargo) at Paradiso for so long, Inara having to go in to get them out of there.

I feel like it's good enough to get people to come in, but my god, people must have been SO confused when this was used as the pilot. I would have been very confused by River/Simon especially. I mean, we aren't even shown why she's so messed up, just a quick shot of her screaming as doctors poke her brain. Ugh. Fox.

Definitely. Having seen the series when it first aired, I was incredibly confused as to how Simon, River, and the preacher ended up on board. Just like I was confused as hell as to who those reaver folks were in "Bushwacked." It wasn't until the DVD's came along that I could truly enjoy this episode for what it was.

There's one guy over at Big Damn Commentaries who mentioned that, not having seen the real pilot, he thought Reavers weren't real when he watched Bushwacked.

One thing this episode really does better than Serenity is introducing the ship itself. In the pilot, the first time we see Serenity it's camoflauged in a bunch of debris, and we only see the front half, so that if you don't already know what it looks like you'll probably miss it completely. Whereas here you get the heroic rise up from the canyon. I know which one I prefer.

I've heard that Niska was another demand from the network for a recurring bad guy, like in Buffy. Once again, they just couldn't see that this show wasn't supposed to be Buffy in space. But I thought he worked out pretty well, and the guys at stillflying.net came up with a perfect conclusion episode for him where he forces Mal to watch as he tortures everyone else. Yes, even Kaylee. It's a gut wrenching sequence, but the episode ends with Niska's very unambiguous death so everything's good.

Okay, so maybe y'all can help me out. I just spent all day watching the entire season of Firefly, came to read the 'caps, and... apparently I'm missing this episode. A friend burned the DVDs for me, and I have 15 total episodes -- one monster episode just called Firefly 1-4 and thirteen other regular episodes. Somehow, I am missing The Train Job. Can anyone clue me in as to why that might be, how I might be missing it if it is on these DVDs, and... uh... stuff? Apparently this one sets up the Niska confrontation with Mal and Wash later, so I am all kinds of curious. Plus, if I'm just a doof who skipped it somehow, that means I have a whole extra episode to watch before I have to concede that there is no more Firefly.

Help? And if this shouldn't go in the ep thread, sorry.

(Edited because I can't count. Seriously.)

Since there were only 14 episodes (15 if you count Serenity as two) you should have The Train Job. You can check out the recap here to see if you have seen it.

I did, and I haven't. I'm wondering if that first "episode" I have -- Firefly 1-4 -- is mislabelled; perhaps it's actually just Firefly 1-2 or something. I suppose the Great Train Job Search begins now. :P

Edited to say that I don't have Serenity, either, so that makes a pretty compelling argument for mislabelling. Without Serenity and The Train Job, that brings my total episode count down to thirteen (uh, if I'm doing the math right), so that first episode is probably really just one episode, not four. I think it's time I contact the person who made my DVDs; sorry for splattering confusion all over the boards.

Thanks for the help -- knowing how many episodes there are supposed to be clears up some of the confusion.

You can catch the episode on your computer for free. (It's where I've seen them.) I can't give the web address because of the Forum rules (I think) but if you search for firefly full episodes, you should hit on the (fully authorized) website.

ETA - Thanks Mars. I thought it might qualify as "pimping other websites."

rab01, you can definitely give links to completely legal places to watch online. You just can't give links to places that are not legal — or don't have the legal rights to the content they're sharing. In other words, hulu is OK. Network sites are OK. YouTube is OK for clips, etc., but not full episodes. Illegal streaming/downloading sites are not OK.

And the place to find episodes online -- completely legal -- is Firefly on hulu.com. I've been rewatching the series. I'm gonna have to buy the darned dvds.

I know you meant The Big Damn DVDs.