cutecouple
Mar 10, 2006 @ 11:36 am
The 2nd of 2 parts, concluding the story began in Aliens of London.
A decent ending. An alien family of criminals is an interesting twist on the monolithic alien race, all good or all bad. A relatively quick ending to the cliffhanger too, which is unusual I think for Doctor Who, unless I misremember.
There were good shoutouts and callbacks (UNIT, Rose's enhanced cellphone from EotW), plus characters stepping up, like Mickey and Harriet Jones. Good focus on the Doctor's relationship with Rose, and his desire to keep her safe, to keep his promise to Jackie. (or did I misremember that?)
Edit: The move to have Mickey launch the missile seems very War Games. I suppose if this were done with an earlier Doctor, he would have dialed in with a pretty text-based interface. A lot of the running around seems to be for running around sake. It seems curious that when the missile was launched, they showed neither Jackie nor Mickey making their last goodbyes to Rose (nor the other way around). But I suppose the domestic bits at the end were more important. Also, why would Mickey have a baseball bat and not a cricket bat?
Raksha
Apr 7, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
Aw, I love Harriet Jones, MP Flydale North. She's so sweet and polite (pass to the left, indeed) and she's really deals with all this quite well. And she was so awesome, ordering the Doctor around there near the end. Yay, Shaun's mum!
I still don't like Mickey.
I'm so ashamed, but I actually laughed at a fart joke. When the rest of the family was showing up, and one of them farted, Margaret said "That's the spirit." I don't know, it was just her delivery. It cracked me up.
I am so very pathetic. That "I could save the world, but lose you" bit had me going "Awwww! He luuuuuvs her!" Then Rose's expression had me going "Awwww! She luuuuuvs him!" I am 14 years old inside.
The Doctor's got a manipulative streak. That bit about the Horsehead Nebula? After last week's ep indicating a concern about her staying with him, he knew she wouldn't be able to resist coming with him if he described something like that. That's a fascinating bit of characterization, I think. He cares about her and he wants to keep her safe, but he'll do whatever he can to keep her with him, even if it's a wee bit underhanded. Of course, this was really mild, nothing that would make me go "Ooh, that's shady!" but it's enough to make me wonder how possessive he could get.
ETA: So what bits were cut out of this ep?
SteveManfred
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:03 pm
As expected, there were no deleted bits in tonight's episode, since it was already short enough for SciFi's timeslot.
Next week.... things get serious... and Hugo-nominated.... here comes the "Dalek"..... :)
Raksha
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:06 pm
As expected, there were no deleted bits in tonight's episode, since it was already short enough for SciFi's timeslot.
Ah, yes. Forgot about that. Thanks!
Next week.... things get serious... and Hugo-nominated.... here comes the "Dalek"..... :)
Eeeee! I'm so excited! ([Jessie Spano]I'm so scared![/JS]) Actually, I'm a little disappointed too. The preview for next week was lame. Anyone not familiar with Who wouldn't know what a big deal the Dalek is and there was nothing else in the preview to get those people excited to watch. Lame SciFi channel.
Jenius
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:06 pm
pass to the left, indeed
Could you elaborate?
That bit was full of jokes, and I giggled at "question time," but "pass to the left" -- hunh?
CatusFelix
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
Next episode: Daleks! Yes!! Result!
The two-parter was still pretty awesome however. Good combination of farting aliens and general whimsy and things that would have had me hiding behind the couch when I was 10. I always did love the episodes where the Daleks or the Cybermen or whatever would appear from the tube stations, or the electrical shed or the abandoned quarry rather than directly from outer space. Like they were waiting there all along. Ready to jump you while you were coming home from school.
Also, why would Mickey have a baseball bat and not a cricket bat?
Actually, Irvine Welsh had a joke in Trainspotting (I think) about the number of baseball bats sold in Britain every year but never any baseballs.
Demetrios
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
That bit was full of jokes, and I giggled at "question time," but "pass to the left" -- hunh?
It was port, and in nautical terms, port is to the left. Therefore, port should always be passed to the left...
usmc5855
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:11 pm
Anyone else think "I'll give you a choice" sounds way too Buffy?
prettythings
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
Not all that many people actually play cricket. Though the baseball bat is a bit of a mystery. Where I come from, only very scary people owned those (and not to play sports with).
I was just enjoying the oh-so-subtle political narrative. the inspectors have found evidence of massive weapons of destruction capable of being launched in 45 seconds. Hee.
Great minds think alike, CatusFelix, though I don't think my old neighbourhood was quite as hard as Trainspotting.
RavenaS
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:13 pm
It was port, and in nautical terms, port is to the left. Therefore, port should always be passed to the left...
More than that. Drinking port is an old nautical tradition, lots of rituals surround it when consumed in social circles. Wikipedia details it. If you pass to the right, you are committing a social faux pas. Since Harriet Jones is a socially polite sort of person, it's characterization that she'd remember that bit even when in a crisis. Same as her "Did you notice when they fart, if you'll pardon the word, it doesn't smell like a fart, if you'll pardon the word."
CatusFelix
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
I would love it if Harriet Jones (future PM) became the new Brigadier for this series. She could deal with the doctor turning up randomly and the random shit he turns up with pretty handily.
clack
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:17 pm
Loved the character grace notes, hated the whole Slitheen plot -- I would've really enjoyed a whole episode built around just the interactions amongst Jackie, Rose, Mickey, Harriet, and the Doctor. But that wouldn't have been very Whovian, I guess.
Slitheens chasing the Doctor and Rose around 10 Downing : rubbish. Their "plot" to destroy the world : ridiculous and puerile writing on Davies's part.
But once that plot was wrapped up, we got to the good stuff.
Mack the Spoon
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:19 pm
I have seen both this and AoL, don't worry, but the tape I watched cut off the beginning part, which explained (I hope) how the Doctor got out of the situation we see him in at the cliffhanger. What did he do to overpower the Slitheen? I think the tape just started with him leaving the room.
Thanks very much!
Warden
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:21 pm
Anyone else think "I'll give you a choice" sounds way too Buffy?
I missed that part but when it was revealed that the Slitheen were just in it for the profit, my mind immediately went to ST:TNG with the Ferengi.
Also, why would Mickey have a baseball bat and not a cricket bat?
Actually, Irvine Welsh had a joke in Trainspotting (I think) about the number of baseball bats sold in Britain every year but never any baseballs.
I thought it was a jab at Americans with the preoccupation with violence and such that Mickey would have a baseball bat "for self-defense". What does that say about Mickey though?
Pinwiz
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:29 pm
I hadn't noticed it on the first viewing, but when Mickey was getting Jackie settled after rescuing her the first time one of the things he did was to check the trash can to see if it was going to attack him again.
CatusFelix
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:37 pm
Great minds think alike, CatusFelix, though I don't think my old neighbourhood was quite as hard as Trainspotting.
Yes, but you probably didn't live in "Crap Estates," South London.
Oh yeah, and the trashcan trauma. Mickey's got a lot on his plate. Good call,
Pinwiz.
MDKNIGHT
Apr 7, 2006 @ 9:43 pm
The Good: Character developement. I no longer hate Mickey. I'll take a guy (and you really should drop into the every planet has an atlantic thread to learn what "guy" actually means) who knows his limitations and chooses to stay home, than one who volunteers and then spend his time whining about it, any day of the week. I kind of like Jackie now and was actually feeling sorry for her with the Doctor not accepting the shepherd pie of peace. It strikes me that if it were people in my family, they'd think the Doctor thinks he's too good for them and be hurt by it. Harriet Jones cool under pressure. I love that, especially since most writers insist on throwing women who freak out at the drop of a hat at me, and have done that for decades.
The Bad: The plot: It was rediculous and could not make a 5 year old believe it as plausible. The Slitheen Plot AND the resolution to the Slitheen Plot was atrocious from a storytelling POV. The Doctor escaping into the "lift" was horrendous and this is coming from somebody who bought that the 4th Doctor could defeat a Dalek by throwing a hat on it's eye stalk. There is just no excuse for this plot.
Question for those who have seen the rest of the season reg something on this ep
I saw the kid wipe the Tardis which of course is erasing the Black Wolf tag but was there any actual mention of the Black Wolf in this ep? Don't tell me what BW actually means, since I don't want to be spoiled I just want to know if the phrase appeared this ep. Thanks
Reg Next week's trailor Yeah Daleks! Spoiler removed because they were already mentioned upthread
ETA Since nobody answered, the Doctor took his id card which seems to be what was transmitting the electric shocks or whatever to all the experts, said that might kill a HUMAN but not him, and then put it on one of the Slitheens. Interestingly enough when you shock one the others convulse too. I'm guessing it is only family wide but still a stupid thing for evolution to do. Don't buy it as plausible.
Raksha
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:01 pm
It was port, and in nautical terms, port is to the left. Therefore, port should always be passed to the left...
More than that. Drinking port is an old nautical tradition, lots of rituals surround it when consumed in social circles. Wikipedia details it. If you pass to the right, you are committing a social faux pas. Since Harriet Jones is a socially polite sort of person, it's characterization that she'd remember that bit even when in a crisis. Same as her "Did you notice when they fart, if you'll pardon the word, it doesn't smell like a fart, if you'll pardon the word."
Yeah, that was part of what I found so funny about that bit. Harriet reminding him of that little bit of politeness at a moment like that. Hee! But I also giggled because whenever I hear anything about passing to the left, I automatically think "Pass the dutchie on the left hand side," which is a pretty funny thing to associate with Harriet Jones.
CatusFelix
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:05 pm
Interestingly enough when you shock one the others convulse too. I'm guessing it is only family wide but still a stupid thing for evolution to do. Don't buy it as plausible.
I think it had something to do with the translation/gas exchange(?) devices around their necks.
The Doctor survived because of his two hearts, of course.
Demetrios
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:04 pm
ETA Since nobody answered, the Doctor took his id card which seems to be what was transmitting the electric shocks or whatever to all the experts, said that might kill a HUMAN but not him, and then put it on one of the Slitheens. Interestingly enough when you shock one the others convulse too. I'm guessing it is only family wide but still a stupid thing for evolution to do. Don't buy it as plausible.
Since he pressed it against the gas exchange mechanism on the Slitheen's neck, I assumed that it had to do with that. So, stupid design flaw in the mechanism rather than stupid evolution...
Mack the Spoon
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:07 pm
Thanks, all! Cool! I wish I could actually see that, but I'll wait for the DVDs. :-)
Eegah
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:15 pm
Hmm, let me see, who could this whole massive weapons of destruction thing be aimed at? Particularly with the 9/11-like crash in part one?
MDKNIGHT
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:28 pm
Ah yes the mechanism being stupidly configured does make a heck of a lot more sense...but STILL it is a stretch because why would one compression gizmo have to communicate with another? Also one of the Slitheens could "feel" that another one was dead after he got Hannibaled. Still very odd.
Hmm, let me see, who could this whole massive weapons of destruction thing be aimed at? Particularly with the 9/11-like crash in part one?
This surprised me because the more I talk with Brits on the other thread the more I realize the US is not the center of thier universe. I actually have half convinced myself they were criticizing Tony Blair rather than Busch and didn't really give 911 a thought when they filmed that scene.
ctcasares
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:30 pm
A lot of the running around seems to be for running around sake.
Which is why I giggled...so very like the original--running through the same walkways over and over and over. One Tom Baker episode in particular mocked their lack of sets.
It was fun. I apparently don't demand much logic from my Who.
I laughed out loud when the Slitheen exploded after being covered in gherkins. That was good stuff!
Did anyone catch what their real species name was? No cc on this tv.
And, yea! Daleks! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!
Mack the Spoon
Apr 7, 2006 @ 10:32 pm
Their planet is, if I got it right: Raxicoricofallopatorius. The spelling may be wrong, but I think the syllables are correct.
umrguy42
Apr 7, 2006 @ 11:20 pm
Yay, Shaun's mum!
Amen to that... I had a lot of fun when I first saw her in last week's ep, I was all, "hey, it's Shaun's mum! Cool!"
Ahem. Anyway. I'm left (being the semi-anal-retentive detail-obsessed type that I am) wondering whether Mickey will in fact use that computer virus the Doctor gave him to remove all mentions of him.
I also found it interesting that while Jackie takes off after a few moments (and hey, that was hardly 10 seconds... maybe ten from when the TARDIS started to disappear, but, c'mon!)... but Mickey sure looked like he was prepared to settle in and wait for a while...
Jamoche
Apr 7, 2006 @ 11:27 pm
Next week.... things get serious... and Hugo-nominated.... here comes the "Dalek"..... :)
Hugo-nominated? Not to be a spoiler, but it deserves it.
lastro
Apr 7, 2006 @ 11:38 pm
wondering whether Mickey will in fact use that computer virus the Doctor gave him to remove all mentions of him.
He actually doesn't use the virus. Read Mickey's blog (BBC's viral site) regarding WWIII.
WARNING: Archive entry #8 and greater refers to episodes that have yet to air on SciFi.
http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/index6.shtml
CatusFelix
Apr 7, 2006 @ 11:45 pm
This surprised me because the more I talk with Brits on the other thread the more I realize the US is not the center of thier universe. I actually have half convinced myself they were criticizing Tony Blair rather than Busch and didn't really give 911 a thought when they filmed that scene.
There's also a perception in England that Blair completely rolled over for Bush during the campaign for the war in Iraq. A lot of the dodgy intelligence came by way of MI6 and the revelations that the info had been "sexed up" got a lot more play in the English press as well.
FrightenedAuk
Apr 7, 2006 @ 11:59 pm
Hm. Did anyone else think it was really, insanely stupid that the ep wrapped up with "Alien Hoax!", like ok, a giant space ship crashed, most of UK Parliament was slaughtered, someone launched a fucking missile at the center of elected British government, but nah, people think it's a hoax.
WTF?
There's still a goddamned spaceship sitting in the Thames.
Living unspoiled as I do, I don't know if that was just some random commentary on human nature or if it was actually meant to imply that the whole world will just have forgotten this episode ever happened next time we stop by London, Present Day. If it's the latter, that's just... inane.
That said... I would totally vote for Harriet Jones. Also, high marks to: the Doctor, for inviting and then covering for Mickey, and Jackie, for actually respecting that her daughter is an adult and can make the decision to risk her life for herself. Classy.
And I laughed at "that's the spirit" too. It really was good delivery.
dannyboybell
Apr 8, 2006 @ 12:20 am
As other people have said, I liked everything about this episode but the plot.
Although I was wondering why the UNIT password was "buffalo"
So, now that we've seen the episode, what was the spoiler in the BBC trailer? I assume it was something more dramatic than the SciFi trailer which just said that The Doctor survived and I think we all guessed that was going to happen.
Arthur Dent
Apr 8, 2006 @ 12:37 am
One of the sillier parts of the plot is the idea of needing to get the launch codes from the U.N. But then, this hearkens back to the Tom Baker debut episode "Robot," where the Brigadier explains that the superpowers all gave their launch codes (or something like that) to Britain because "naturally enough, [it was] the only country that could be trusted with the role." Without missing a beat, the Doctor says "Naturally. I mean, the rest were all foreigners."
Subjunctive
Apr 8, 2006 @ 12:54 am
I thought maybe I hadn’t understood that part correctly. The Slitheen’s plot really hinged on getting the codes to Britain’s nuclear missiles that at some point had been given to the U.N? Farting aliens that can be killed with vinegar I’ll buy, but the idea that the UK keeps it’s nuclear capacity but gives the codes to the U.N is the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while. Does the U.N have a special filing cabinet in the basement where it keeps the codes? Does Kofi Annan keep them on his blackberry?
I’m really beginning to like Mickey. I wanted him to climb aboard. I kind of like that he and the Doctor don’t get along very well, but they are starting to grudgingly tolerate (respect?) each other. On the other hand Jackie still annoys me, but I think it’s because from time to time her voice reminds me of Brenda Blethyn’s in Secret and Lies. Whenever she’s in a scene, I have my remote in my hand just in case she starts to cry and I have to hit the emergency mute button.
RovingIze
Apr 8, 2006 @ 1:49 am
This was like a whole new Mickey. Even the Doctor started calling him Mickey rather than Rickey at some point I think.
Kaffyr
Apr 8, 2006 @ 1:49 am
*Alright!*
I just finished watching World War III for the second time. I am so very, very impressed.
(Pause to admit I *am* a cheap date. But I don't think my admitted failing has anything to do with my reaction to tonight.)
Where to start with the good things?
The writing; technically strong, emotionally sure.
Character studies, already well established, feed sturdily and smoothly into the plot, nourishing and furthering it.
I *believe* in Jackie's love for Rose, I believe her when, at the end, she pleads with Rose to stay by offering everything that you know Rose has been on at her for God knows how long; bettering herself, not vegging into zombiehood, avoiding some borderline thug she's let into her life. Just a few brief, well-sketched lines with which Jackie and Rose reveal this to us.
I *believe* Mickey, his reluctant, surprisingly efficient, actions, his new ability to take orders without letting his thin skin get in the way. I believe in his ever-so-slowly growing understanding of himself. Right now, he understands that he's not ready, and, compared to when we first meet him, he's gone beyond fear, and is moving beyond embarassment about that. I believe that he, like Rose, is slowly being enriched, emboldened, empowered - his potential is being coaxed into the open - by being around The Doctor.
I *believe* in those two, I respect them more as people. They're the kind of human, this script has me thinking, that The Doctor loves even as he almost holds them in contempt. Lovably shallow humans who surprise him again and again with hidden depths.
I *believe* in and purely do love Harriet Jones, MP, Flydale North. Every quick review and analysis she makes of her situation, even while ducking smelly, psycho-killer nightmares. I love her instinctual nobility - jumping out without thinking to offer herself to them in Rose's stead, her "I think I like you, too" to The Doctor on the run, the little stabs of civility in the midst of murderous chaos. Were I a Brit in that universe, I would *so* vote for her!
I *believe* in the Slitheen family. The writing hints at the parts of their psychological makeup that are species-specific, and the family history suggesting they're particularly odious representatives of a dodgy lot. And *Bravo!* to the CGI - it smoothly transitioned the rubber suits into the kind of frighteningly powerful and swift hunting animals they are.
The Doctor? Rose? They are beautiful. Two best scenes: a) when Jackie presses him over the phone to guarantee her daughter's safety. He can't. He knows. He watches Rose and she looks at him with eyes that hold a nano-second of Jackie's hope, a split-second of hurt and anger when she realizes he can't keep her safe, and a final understanding that she doesn't care. b) when he tells her he can't save the earth without putting her at risk. And he is quietly, disbelievingly incredulous as he realizes he's heart(s)-tied to this snip of an alien girl, in a time so short his previous years of Companionship have left him unprepared for the kick to said hearts. He's on the brink for some molecularly small strength of time, to not doing it for that reason. And she tells him to. It's her challenge - not asking him not to do it, but a challenge to him to believe in her ability to handle it. It's erotic in a platonic way, if you get my drift. Or platonic in an sensually physical way. They are learning to love each other. And, no, probably (or undoubtedly) not in a classicly romantic thing. Just not done; I know The Whoverse. But a relationship unlike any other he's or she's ever had.
Plot: I know there were holes, but far fewer this week. The writers smoothly wove a perfectly acceptable explanation of the Slitheens' camouflage methods into some of the holes of last week; so much so, that I wonder if the writers actually were addressing the "realities" of putting five pounds of shit in a four pound bag (so to speak), and only *after* doing so realized they could have fun with farts. I think we've all been assuming the farts came first and only later the No-Prize attempt backstory stuff. Now I'm not so sure. And, yes, I'm prepared to accept that The Doctor could help Mickey hack into secure ultra-military systems. (And I salute the doctor for having the intestinal fortitude to give some tacit props to Mickey. Shows even 900-year-old curmudgeons can learn.)
And Massive Weapons of Destruction? Big Kiss now being sent the way of the writers.
For me, an A- at the very least.
And next week, Daleks? OK - I'm trusting this crew to make a stab at making those scary fellers even scarier, perhaps through some masterful writing that eliminates some of the obvious foolishness of horrific universal threats who can't take the stairs.
BlueOwl
Apr 8, 2006 @ 2:09 am
Well, this one started our really, really bad, but in a really fun way. I think they were making fun of themselves and deliberately reveling in the ridiculousness of it all, and so I was giggling right along with them, with the big goofy rubber monster suits (which must be a deliberate tip of the hat to the older shows), the cheap looking CGI monsters which matched the rubber suits so poorly, and especially all the pointless running around 10 Downing St. (which, when picture it in my mind now, I imagine them all running in fast speed with "Wacky Sax" playing on the soundtrack, and of course Rose clad in nothing but sexy underwear). I even liked stupid way the Doctor escaped by stepping back into the lift ()
But soon, the fun sort of petered out once the Doctor, Rose & future Prime Minister Roslin got locked in that room, the Slithereens just sort of stood around & practiced their Evil Laughs, and Mickey & Jackie wound up being the center of all the action by staring at a computer screen. Wound up being another really weak episode. There were lots of funny little one liners delivered at inopportune moments to relieve the nonexistent tension, but most of the humor seemed decidedly forced.
Even the character bits between Rose & the Doctor, Jackie, Mickey, ect seemed kinda ham fisted. In particular: while on the one hand it was kinda sweet how the Doctor almost doesn't want to blow up 10 Downing St. because he might lose Rose, it struck me as way too early in the series for him to openly admit to that level of feelings for her.
Other thoughts:
-Seriously, is the British Army made up entirely of soldiers that were too dumb to even make it as Imperial Stormtroopers?
-I know this show, and especially this episode, probably isn't the place to go for realism or veracity, but is it even remotely conceivable that England would not have access to their own nuclear codes and would have to ask permission from the U.N. to use them? This seemed more bizarre & absurd than anything in the show involving the actual aliens.
-Still not really liking Mickey, although I get that the writers are trying real hard to de-toolify him somewhat.
-To echo a point Jacob made in his recap of Part 1: So, the Doctor vaguely knows the name of the low-level MP, and 45 minutes after the rest of us figure it out he finally recalls that she will someday (fairly soon, from the looks of things) be a three term Prime Minister of Thatcheresque significance, yet he apparently doesn't remember having heard about the big Alien Invasion of Earth in which 10 Downing Street (which he seems to know the entire history of) got blowed up, and which apparently started the future PM on her rapid climb to Political Superstardom? I suspect this is the sort of thing I'm gonna have to learn to just not think too much about if I want to enjoy the show.
-Speaking of which: they actually blew up 10 Downing Street? Damm. That's actually kind of audacious of them.
-But other than that one little detail of the center of power of the British Government being blown up, and in fact most of Parliament apparently having been killed by these things so that the entire British government is in a complete shambles, it kind of sounds like things are going to rapidly go back to "normal" as the entire world experiences collective amnesia & denial about the aliens because humanity just can't deal with the traumatic truth of just how cheesy the Universe really is.
Also, why would Mickey have a baseball bat and not a cricket bat?
Well judging from the way he was holding it, I'd say he didn't have a whole lot of experience using it for either administering beatdowns *or* Baseball.
This surprised me because the more I talk with Brits on the other thread the more I realize the US is not the center of their universe. I actually have half convinced myself they were criticizing Tony Blair rather than Busch and didn't really give 911 a thought when they filmed that scene.
I think it was mostly Tony Blair. He was the one leader who enthusiastically bought into Bush's whole line of bullshit about Iraq and even helpfully shoveled on a heaping pile of his own (and he seemed like such a bright guy back when he was dealing with Clinton). That line about the aliens being able to launch an attack on them within "45 seconds" was reference to a claim Blair had made before the Iraq war about Saddam having the capability of launching an attack on Europe within 45 minutes (even *Bush* was backing away from that one).
But whether it aimed more at Bush or their own PM, it was a surprisingly direct, explicit political allusion, I get the impression that it's a lot more biting than anything Who had been known for in the past. The parallels to Iraq & phony stories of WMD's to justify the war & get the U.N.'s approval are blatantly obvious & perhaps even simplistic, (although in the end depressingly accurate.) They even had the aliens ultimate plan being to melt down the Earth to use as a huge source of fuel for spaceships. I suppose we should be glad they did seem to focus more on Blair & England's role in getting us into this mess, and so didn't try to squeeze in an allusion to Abu Garaib prison.
NickBarlow
Apr 8, 2006 @ 4:27 am
I think the point about the 'Alien Hoax' headline was to try to acknowledge the fact that this is a quite commonplace event in the Whoniverse - in the 60s and 70s, the Earth (well, South East England, usually) was invaded or attacked on an almost weekly basis, yet the general public are kept completely unaware of it. It does get picked up on in The Christmas Invasion, though. It's just a nod to the general suspension of disbelief that youhave to go along with for the show. Doesn't Stargate also have it that the general population aren't aware of the gate and the the existence of aliens?
As for the question of why the Doctor doesn't know certain things before they happen, despite knowing his history, my personal opinion is that he exists slightly outside the normal flow of things and sees history as the sum of probabilities, rather than a definite fixed and unchanging flow. My belief is that he only vaguely recalls Harriet Jones when they first meet because her future isn't fixed at that point - it's still entirely possible that he could fail or he could succeed in a different way to the way he does, and thus she dies in the explosion and just remains 'anonymous MP who was in Downing Street when it exploded'. It's only after the end of the crisis when she's survived and is walking towards the cameras to launch herself into the public awareness with her new-found confidence that he 'remembers' her becoming Prime Minister. And again, see The Christmas Invasion for her return and a revisiting of this issue.
Pinwiz
Apr 8, 2006 @ 5:41 am
My belief is that he only vaguely recalls Harriet Jones when they first meet because her future isn't fixed at that point - it's still entirely possible that he could fail or he could succeed in a different way to the way he does, and thus she dies in the explosion and just remains 'anonymous MP who was in Downing Street when it exploded'. It's only after the end of the crisis when she's survived and is walking towards the cameras to launch herself into the public awareness with her new-found confidence that he 'remembers' her becoming Prime Minister.
I don't know if it's a TV canon concept, but the book writers stuck to the rule that whenever the Doctor visits a place/time then the events are stuck in place forever. It explains why the Doc keeps getting drawn back to Earth... he has to come back to keep the timeline stable.
As for why he doesn't recognize Harriet, I thought that the Doctor was too busy trying to pick one planet's name out of 5000/save Rose's mum/stop the destruction of the planet to devote the energy to placing a random person's history.
Or not. Either way, I love Harriet Jones. Why can't she run for President?
xtreme
Apr 8, 2006 @ 8:46 am
Yeah I have to admit, the secondary cast got their chance to shine in this one, well all except the Hottie Secreary, worse luck. And Harriet Jones is just hilarious. Especially her Manners-At-All-Times style attitude. Her meeting Jackie could be interesting, if it ever happens properly.
FrightenedAuk
Apr 8, 2006 @ 8:55 am
I've had a thought about the Doctor not knowing anything about the crash when Rose was grilling him in the road last ep.
If, as the inane newspaper article would have us believe, the world has written off the slaughter of the entire British government and the giant fucking spaceship sitting in the Thames as an elaborate hoax, then it wouldn't have made the history books; ergo, despite being an Earth historian, the Doctor wouldn't know about it.
He still ought to have been saying "that's odd, I remember First Contact being in 2201," or something. But he's ADD so that much at least I could roll with.
marahsarie
Apr 8, 2006 @ 9:37 am
MDKNIGHT asked about this episode's Bad Wolf reference: (I don't think I need to spoiler tag this, but I will just in case anyone is trying to find all the references on their own)
I'm not sure if her name is actually shown in the episode, but on Mickey's website, there's the same clip of the American newscaster, and her name is given as "Mal Loup" -- apparently French for "Bad Wolf". (Standard warning: anything past entry 6 "Hoax This!" on Mickey's website contains spoilers for episodes that haven't aired in the US.) I can't remember, though, if her name is ever actually shown on screen during the episode or not.
Raksha
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:00 am
Great post, Kaffyr! Maybe I'm a cheap date too, but that's pretty much how I feel (except I don't think the Rose/Doctor relationship is all that platonic).
As for the whole "It was a hoax!" thing: Maybe it comes from so many years of watching Buffy, but that really didn't bother me. I just qualify it as Sunnydale Syndrome and move on.
clack
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:19 am
But, how is Harriet's political carreer launched by her reaction to an event that never happened? If people believe it's a hoax, doesn't that make her a liar?
Raksha
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:43 am
Not if they believe she was fooled by the hoax just like everyone else. If she (along with everyone else) believed it was real, then she was still keeping order during a crisis.
SteveManfred
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:50 am
Just a point of correction. The entire British government wasn't destroyed. The Cabinet was still stranded outside London on the orders of the Slitheen Prime Minister, and it looked as though most of the people who were in No. 10 who weren't Slitheen managed to get out in that rapid evacuation.
falcon15
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:50 am
Did anyone else notice a freaky resemblance between the aliens' faces and those of the Teletubbies?
DianaD
Apr 8, 2006 @ 10:53 am
Add me to the "cheap date" list, I'm really enjoying these episodes. I can't wait for the Daleks!
xtreme
Apr 8, 2006 @ 11:01 am
And anyway, when was the last time you knew a politician to worry about lying? Or am I being cynical.
alysonwonderlnd
Apr 8, 2006 @ 11:27 am
And anyway, when was the last time you knew a politician to worry about lying? Or am I being cynical.
Cynical, but truthful.
Also:
The Doctor survived because of his two hearts, of course.
He has two hearts? Again, this is my first foray into the Doctor's universe. But it makes sense. And its frakkin' cool!
Anyways, I thought this week's episode was all for the characters. You see a whole other layer in the Doctor, when he's on the phone with Jackie while they're still trapped in the cabinet room. It's kind of scary, and kind of touching. It's like, for all that he's crazy and happy go lucky in a warped sense most of the time, you also see that he knows how dangerous it is, he knows whats at stake, and how close they come to dying, every day, but he'll keep on doing it, because it's all he knows how to do.
Breath. That was a mighty run on sentence and I apologize for it. I just have a penchant for them. Any who, I liked it. And although Mickey is just neutral in my eyes now, not awful or brilliant, just tolerable, I'm not so sure about Harriet Jones. She, just, rubs me the wrong way maybe. I don't know, yet. We'll have to see.
NickBarlow
Apr 8, 2006 @ 11:45 am
I think even if the Alien Hoax story is accepted, there's still the little matter of the PM being dead and Downing Street being blown up. There's probably some cover story about Joseph Green and General Asquith thinking we were under attack and going mad and Harriet Jones stopped them somehow, even though Downing Street was blown up.