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Glark
Media-y!
Season Pass
Tim Goodman of the San Francisco Chronicle waxes enthusiastic about Big Love here. Minor spoilers, mostly related to the premise and outlining the basic lines of dramatic conflict in the series.
phantomframe
A conversation with the creators of the show on All Things Considered yesterday.

Also, Howard Berkes watched the show with a group of polygamists on Day to Day this morning. The audio isn't available until later today, but it's worth checking out, for sure!
valny
Good review from today's NY Daily News.
pujolsistheman
All the reviews are raves, it seems. HBO kicks ass.
EmperorSeth
Slate isn't too thrilled with it, though.

The review goes in a really weird direction, though. Not sure how much it helps.
jackiecarr
They're really promo-ing the heck out of this. I've seen commercials all over basic cable , and I think network TV too. Way more than any other recent HBO show.
pujolsistheman
My goodness, that is indeed a weird direction for the Slate review. Wasn't too surprised to see that the writer is pissed at the very idea of a series about polygamy that examines it as a lifestyle choice without flashing "THIS IS BAD, OK?" in big neon letters, but when she veered off into a crazy homophobic rant? "There is a sense in which the homoerotic ethos has triumphed?" What?
BlackCorduroy
Here is a nice collection of reviews from various sources in one place. I think the general consensus is positive, while the negative ones seem to have at least a few good things to say about the show.
torianne84
Seattle P-I did a review. It too is favorable.
Season Pass
Probably worth bearing in mind that the author of the Slate review, Daphne Merkin, isn't a regular TV critic, but an iconoclastic essayist who frequently approaches her subjects from a provocative, often confessional and usually overtly sexual angle. She's probably best known for a mid-1990s New Yorker piece in which she explained her love of spanking (the piece was titled "Spanking: A Romance" and is collected here).

Not that any of that takes away from her Slate piece -- I actually thought it was interesting and thought-provoking, although I'll have to actually see the show to see if I agree with any of it. It might, though, help explain where she's coming from if you're not familiar with her work.

ETA: Slate's regular TV reviewer weighs in on the show here.
GooberPyle
Cathy Seipp and Louis Wittig both gave it positive reviews on National Review Online.
phantomframe
Totally genius ad in the New York Times Weddings and Celebrations section today! You can't see it online, you have to get the print copy. It's 3 wedding announcements at the bottom of the page. It almost looks real at first, except they didn't follow the NYT criteria for photos and have the couple's eyes at the same level...
Contralto
The Chicago Tribune did the same a few days ago.
Amelie06
Word on the street is that Bill Paxton and Chloe Sevigny (sp) were on The View. Joy Behar asked her about the infamous sex scene in The Brown Bunny. After the cameras stopped rolling Bill Paxton apparently lost his shit because he thought it was wrong for them to make her talk about that again. The story that I read at imdb claimed that he vowed to never go on The View again.
Edwin F. Sneller
Here's an article from Sunday's Deseret Morning News (a Salt Lake paper owned by the LDS church) about polygamists watching the show.
calla
Listened to this the other day on the way home from work. Interesting to hear how those whose lives are being portrayed feel about it.

Real-Life Polygamists React to HBO's "Big Love"

NOTE: I especially love the "off tape" comment of one of the husbands toward the end.
Spadada
I saw The View clip on Best Week ever and Joy's tone when asking the question was vicious and Chloe was genuinely stunned. There they were having this civil converstaion and then all of a sudden, Joy hits her with it. It felt like a public indictment. There she (Chloe) is with her current co-workers being asked about the time she sucked dick on camera. It would be like asking Catherine Willows about stripping when you were interviewing her about a case she was currently a CSI on. Awful. Chloe kind of shakes it off and makes a joke, but is obviously taken aback. Her female cast members say that what she did was "very brave" and Paxton makes a joke but is obviously pissed, "I'm going to have to defend this lady's honor. That was way out of bounds." I can't imagine what he said when they went to commercial. (Course Chloe can defend herself.)
teafan62
Uh-Oh
pecora
I find all these articles on what real-life polygamists think of the show totally fascinating. The Salt Lake Tribune's polygamy blog watched the premiere with some current polygamists ( Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4) and some former polygamists (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3). This comment was especially interesting to me:

John Llewellyn, a former member of the Apostolic United Brethern and author of the critique Polygamy Under Attack: I lived it for 20 years and had three wives. There is competition between wives and a woman is not above using her sexuality if she is a cute girl to gain favor with the husband. There is always going to be competition to see who is going to be the dominate wife and who is going to be the favored wife.

There is always contention or problems going on. I know from experience that much of the man's time is keeping peace. No matter how fair and equal in every respect [you try to be,] you're going to be accused of not being fair. That's just human nature.

Your personality changed when you were alone with each woman. We had three different locations at one time and then two. I was one guy here and another guy there. You crave some privacy of your own because you're always in demand. Not sexually, like [HBO shows] but your attention. It's not an easy life.

Fawn Broadbent, a teenager who several years ago left the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: My whole life, I have never seen a happy family where I came from. Never.
Edwin F. Sneller
Colorado City's opinion of Big Love, from the Deseret News.
LisaM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/28/arts/tel...r=1&oref=slogin

From The New York Times - polygamists view of "Big Love".
volcano
I briefly considered starting a "Big Controversy" thread, but I figured that it would probably overlap too much with this thread. Anyway, yesterday I recieved the following E-mail from one of my classmates:

HBO's new series, "Big Love", is about a polygamous family and is set in a
Salt Lake City suburb. About the likely impact of this sexually driven show,
the New York Times said, "We may never look at Utah and think white bread
again."

Parodies of beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
occur- belief in priesthood by a man blessing his hunting rifle, belief in
personal revelation from the Holy Ghost by dramatic visions that the
polygamous leader discusses casually with a friend. Talk of "celestial
kingdom", "free agency", and the "Choose the Right" slogan are included.
There is a brief disclaimer stating that the polygamists don't have an
active connection with the LDS Church. But if the writers don't intend for
viewers to make the connection, one wonders why they set the show in Salt
Lake City, the Church's world headquarters, and why they included
distortions of LDS beliefs.

NBC recently cancelled a show about a dysfunctional Episcopal priest who saw
a "Jesus", after almost 700,000 people emailed and complained.

Couldn't we do the same for this show? If you agree, will you email a polite protest to HBO?
Thanks!

Source of info: www.lds.org click on Newsroom for News Media

Susan Hatton
Marietta, GA

Contacting HBO:

Go to www.hbo.com,
scroll to bottom of page,
click Contact Us,
click on The Sopranos (unless Big Love is listed when you do so),
scroll to the page bottom
click on Contact Us. Then enter your information, specify
it's about Big Love, and leave a message asking them to cancel this
offensive show.
One or two sentences is all it takes. Or feel free to copy or edit
this message: I am offended that you would produce the series Big Love.
It demeans and distorts sacred beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter- day Saints. By setting the show in Salt Lake City, it blurs
the line between the Church and the long renounced practice of polygamy.
Please cancel the show immediately.

For "extra mile" effort and effect, call HBO's operator at 212:512-1208
from 9am to 5pm Mon-Fri EST and ask to leave a message asking
them to cancel Big Love.

This is not an official statement from the church or anything like that. Personally, I never thought anything in this show could be considered "parody". Thoughts? Or should I start a new thread?
iMissEthan
Broadcast networks react more to campaigns like this because they are beholden to sponsors who don't take kindly to word that their products will be boycotted, etc. HBO would not have to deal with angry sponsors, and unless people start cancelling their subscriptions to HBO as a form of protest, I don't see this going anywhere.
LisaM
Besides, if an HBO show didn't cause any controversy, would it really be an "HBO show"?
Coeffriction
And given that the demographics of the typical HBO viewer probably doesn't overlap too heavily with the typical LDS who would be concerned, I think it's even less likely to have an impact. That is, HBO is known for giving more leeway on adult topics than is likely to be comfortable for someone of strict LDS faith, I'd think, and so HBO probably has relatively few strict LDS viewers to lose.
LisaM
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3649390

This article details the email campaign against Big Love and contains a statement from HBO that the show does not demean the LDS Church. The article also says that HBO is pleased with the ratings. Interesting too that the people interviewed in the article as having sent emails admitted that they had not seen the show.
teafan62
Interesting too that the people interviewed in the article as having sent emails admitted that they had not seen the show.


Wow, there's a shocker. Like all those people who complained about Harry Potter, but never even saw it for themselves. How can one form an opinion if one is not even open-minded enough to see and judge for him/herself?
rainbowdarling
Well put, teafan62. That's one of my pet-peeves with things. At least HBO isn't likely to cancel it simply on account of them.
attica finch
BL got a shout-out from yesterday's The Colbert Report. He's for it: the more, the merrier.
fionacaps
Email campaigns against an HBO show for being offensive. Yes, because these people are regular HBO viewers and enjoy their weekly dose of The Sopranos, Deadwood, and Sex & the City. Oh. Dear. And yet, how very predictable.
LeleAnne
I am LDS and have watched all of those shows. We don't know for sure if these protesters have seen it or not. I am sure many of them have not, and many of them have. We can't make a generalization of one group and say they are being hypocritical because they haven't seen these shows. A lot of people hate Howard Stern and have never heard his show! At the same time, there are people who listen and still despise him.

That being said, I love Sex & the City. It's addicting. Big Love is a very well written show as well.

I think the church does not care that it is on the air as much as they would like a clear disclaimer before the show. They want people to realize this is fiction and some of the ways LDS members or portrayed is not always positive. That's all. It's not like we are all rushing out to destroy HBO or anything. Besides that, I've had several people come and ask me about the show and what I thought. It's not always a bad thing to have shows about the Mormon religion because some people genuinely are curious and want the truth. To me, that's a good thing! Even on these boards people have had nice discussions about religion.

To me, this show could bring a lot more tolerance to the religion but also a lot more prejudice. Hence the reason a disclaimer would be nice.

Just my two cents.
teafan62
I'm confused; I thought the show already does air a disclaimer in the credits every week???
booberella
I was going to post the NY Times article but LisaM already did -- it was pretty good as far as revealing that the creators spent three years researching before they wrote the show, and that there's a "balance" between pro-polygamy reaction and anti-polygamy reaction.

Also, apparently the NYTimes stated that the disclaimer (about polygamy being banned in 1890) ran in the first episode, but doesn't run in every episode (apparently they reported that it did.)
tristyn
I am LDS and have watched all of those shows. We don't know for sure if these protesters have seen it or not.


But most HBO shows - and certainly Big Love - would be rated R, if not NC-17, were they movies. And LDS are counseled against watching R-rated films. So presuming that most LDS generally follow the prophet's counsel (or at least the church's actual statement regarding Big Love), it's unlikely that many LDS will consider HBO programs acceptably wholesome and nourishing entertainment.
Laira1
(removed 'cause of redundancy)
xtinar
I live in Utah, and I love the show. All my non LDS fans are laughing like mad about it. It is so spot on about Mormons. There must be people raised mormons writing it. I think there is a ton more stuff they can include too.

I was laughing and laughing about the "choose the right" "lay a blessing on you" and "baptisms of the dead."

I can't wait til they get into the blessed underwear part ("garments"). In fact, I was shocked that when Bill got out of bed he was wearing Jockey shorts. Where were garments? Has he taken it off? And isn't that a big issue? And where were Margene's garments when she had on that little short robe. I think Barb was shocked not that she was showing her ass but that she didn't have on her garments. lol
teafan62
xtinar, they aren't practicing LDS that belong to any church right now. Hence, no garments. Also, check out the crosses in the houses. That would be an LDS no-no.
xtinar
I think the church does not care that it is on the air as much as they would like a clear disclaimer before the show.


Yeah... sure. Like should their be a disclaimer before "Friends" saying this isn't how most young people without earning power live in NYC? Or maybe before the Sopranos they should give a clear disclaimer that it is not accurately portraying Italians or Catholics?

I think the church does not care that it is on the air as much as they would like a clear disclaimer before the show.


Good catch!! I don't think any mormon... even one who was fallen away... would have crosses in their house. I know a guy whose mother was raised mormon, but married a catholic and had her children raised catholic, and even he goes nuts when his wife wants to put a cross in the house. A judge I know once chastised a clerk in the courthouse for wearing a little cross on a chain.

Even polygamists who have left whatever cult still wear their special underwear. I don't think that someone like Barb, Nikki, or Bill would feel comfortable without them.
tristyn
Even polygamists who have left whatever cult still wear their special underwear. I don't think that someone like Barb, Nikki, or Bill would feel comfortable without them.


How do you know this? Are the polygamists on TV saying they still wear Gs or something?

I could see Bill and Barb still wearing theirs, until they wore them out, but where would Nicki have even gotten them? She's never been a member of the LDS church, she's always been polygamist.
cdredhead
Review of Big Love in Entertainment Weekly

It got a B+.
LeleAnne
Yeah... sure. Like should their be a disclaimer before "Friends" saying this isn't how most young people without earning power live in NYC? Or maybe before the Sopranos they should give a clear disclaimer that it is not accurately portraying Italians or Catholics?


That is kind of unfair seeing as how religion is a completely different avenue. Didn't Fox cancel a show about a man who saw God because of the complaints? I think religion is a bit different. People WERE upset about the sopranos portraying catholics and italians in a negative light.

At any rate, I was just stating what I heard to be the church's stance on the issue.

Also, about the no rated R movies thing, It's just a suggestion. It's not a commandment. Not every Mormon is perfect.
teafan62
How do you know this? Are the polygamists on TV saying they still wear Gs or something?

I could see Bill and Barb still wearing theirs, until they wore them out, but where would Nicki have even gotten them? She's never been a member of the LDS church, she's always been polygamist.


Actually, I'd think Nicki would be the most likely to have garmies, if anyone does.

Remember that "compounds" like Juniper Creek and Colorado City broke away from LDS or FLDS. These sects believe that taking polygamy out of the religion was against the commandments that Joseph Smith believed.

So, my understanding is that the polygamist sects are almost like "supermormons". In many cases, it's my understanding that many leaders of these sects held their memberships in their mainline LDS or FLDS churches as long as possible, until they no longer rec'd recommends or were excommunicated.

I get the idea that Barb would not have chosen to leave LDS for herself, but did it because of Bill. We'll see how it plays out.

The important thing to remember, for purposes of this particular show, is that these people are not practicing their religion in any formal way. (eg, attending any house of worship, etc.) That is, as far as we know from what we've seen thus far.


Didn't Fox cancel a show about a man who saw God because of the complaints? I think religion is a bit different. People WERE upset about the sopranos portraying catholics and italians in a negative light.


I think it was NBC, Book of Daniel.

BUT, now *you* are not comparing apples with apples.

People complained about Sopranos, and, so what???

HBO is a premium channel. It's a choice. It doesn't have the commercials and sponsorship worries that a "main" channel does.

My response to everyone about every channel is: if you don't like it, your remote has channel changing buttons,and an off button!
LisaM
My response to everyone about every channel is: if you don't like it, your remote has channel changing buttons,and an off button!


Bravo! This is my standard response to those "family" groups who automatically send out form letters in protest to the FCC. There is a reason that God created the remote control and the V-Chip.
LeleAnne
I think it was NBC, Book of Daniel.

BUT, now *you* are not comparing apples with apples.

People complained about Sopranos, and, so what???

HBO is a premium channel. It's a choice. It doesn't have the commercials and sponsorship worries that a "main" channel does.

My response to everyone about every channel is: if you don't like it, your remote has channel changing buttons,and an off button!


Wow. All I was saying was that there will always be someone complaining about shows that promote a stereotype or handle a controversial topic like religion. It's called free speech and last time I checked, that was okay.

I totally agree with you. If someone wants to protest the show, then don't get HBO. Cancel your service. Just like the radio, if you don't like Howard Stern turn it off. That doesn't mean people who oppose the show or people who are offended by it don't have the right to say so.

That is all I was saying. But feel free to interpret that any way you want. I rather enjoy the show myself. I was just trying to point out the reasons why the LDS church wants a disclaimer at the beginning of every show. And I also was just saying that there were people offended by The Sopranos. Hence my argument that no matter what, you are going to have critics.

This is all very off topic for the media thread.
teafan62
I think the garmies stuff is off-topic for this thread, too. (But I don't agree that this is all off topic.)

Please know that I wasn't picking on you, LeLeAnne.

When you implied that the "Friends" remark wasn't fair, but then went back to the "Sopranos", and tied in NBC, I was a bit confused to where you were trying to go with your statements.

I find the discussions hard to interpret sometimes, because I am a verbal cue type of person. I look and listen for expression and tonal inflection, and for which words are emphasized. That stuff is hard to get by just reading.

All that said, I *do* think that complaints, disclaimer requests, other cancelled shows, other networks (pointing out similarities and differences), sponsorship (commercials) and yes, even our remote controls, are all within the scope of this thread.
Rirons
There is a write-up about the first three episodes, here.
tristyn
Remember that "compounds" like Juniper Creek and Colorado City broke away from LDS or FLDS. These sects believe that taking polygamy out of the religion was against the commandments that Joseph Smith believed.


So you're thinking what, that the polygamists are making their own garments or have their own versions of the Distribution Center where they're sold? Because they couldn't get the ones that LDS wear. And I can tell you for a fact that those things wear out pretty fast.

We've seen Nicki undressed for sex, but otherwise she's always got long sleeves and long skirts on - maybe she does have some sort of fundie garments going on under there; after all, the old-school garments back in the early days DID hit wrists and ankles (and how much fun that must have been in Utah summers, underneath Victorian dresses and petticoats, I hate to imagine).
sobell
Okay, enough talk about the garments in the non-garmento thread. Take it to e-mail and please yank this thread back around to talking about Big Love media sightings.
LeleAnne
Thanks Teafan62, I was worried that I upset you in some way. I'm not very good at getting my point across in writing. I'm more of a talker myself!
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