Actually I hope the title of this thread isn't too spoilery? Please change if so.

So, I kind of love her. Even the revelation in The Christmas Invasion that she is preparing WMD to fight aliens did not really put me off her. I do wonder though what will happen next ... did the Doctor's six words put an end to her premiership? If so, then what of his earlier statement that she became one of Britain's greatest leaders, ushered in the golden age, etc - having only been in power six months before those fatal words, even if she hangs on to power but is damaged, it seems unlikely that she could end up with that reputation. Or has history now changed? We may only find out in Torchwood, I guess.

Anyway, I love how Penelope Wilton plays the role. She's so chirpy and down to earth and yet commanding when she needs to be - for instance, the scene in the Cabinet Room where she tells the Doctor that she's in charge, as the only elected representative in the room.

Yes. I she's so fun. And I'm not sure I fault her all that much in the CI. Given that she just saw the world almost enslaved while the Doctor waited for his tea, it would seem that her concerns about global safety are valid. Just in the last season, we both times on Satelite 5 how the Earth had gone bad and the Doctor only stepped in to fix things after several decades of wrongness. And really, what makes the more effective warning in terms of planetary defense? A guy in pjs who can sword fight or a massive death-ray?

And if the thread title is too spoilery (I think it probably is), may I suggest an alternate: "Harriet Jones: We know who you are." I figure that's still very character but no more spoilery than the thread title for the 10th doctor.

I'd say it's a bit too spoilery. The Tenth Doctor thread title is casting information, but the PM bit is a twist from the last five minutes of an episode.

Anyhoo, on the casting front, it's a shame that Penelope Wilton has said that she's unlikely to want to appear as Harriet again.

Ohh That really I shame because appart from last speech in WWIII I really enjoyed her!

And I actually don't really fault her that much for her decicion in CI. Was rather on her side than on the doctors side.

And I would have loved to see her and Jack work together over at Torchwood Maybe a bit Cowley like. Especially since there are times that Jack reminds me of Bodie.

Even though it was valid for only one episode, there's always "Harriet Jones: MP, Flydale North".

Or even just "Harriet Jones: MP". The PM is still the MP for their own constituency so that would cover TCI as well. I bet she's not there very often though!

I totally forgot -- thread title changed. Next time, just email the moderator so that the focus doesn't stray from the character to the boards themselves. Thanks!

Did anyone see Penelope Wilton in Bob and Rose, which was also written by Russell T Davies? She played a very similar sort of character - Alan Davies was Bob, who was gay, and she was his mother and the way she responded to his sexuality was becoming a very right on, pro gay active campaigner. It just makes me wonder if the character of Harriet Jones was inspired by Penelope in this role.

I have not seen Christmas Special but what I have seen of her I really liked.
I thought for sure she would become a companion, instead she became a PM! lol.

Oh, Ellycat! I can't wait until you do! Just might be better than your spoiled comment!

Harriet Jones is love. I love how she in TCI makes sure she asks what the name is of the person bringing her tea, since she didn't ask the guy in "Aliens of London", and when he was then killed, she didn't know his name. Just love little character details like that.

Yay HJ!

I hope that she's featured again in DW and could possibly become a daffy, "M"-esque figure in Torchwood. Please, let her career not be over!

Damn it Jacob now I need to see Xmas Special NOW!

Having been lucky enough to see the episodes featuring Penelope Wilton I just want to add that I adore her as Harriet Jones too. Beautifully written and acted. You American viewers are in for a treat. One of the best UK actors and she just ROCKS in Doctor Who. And the twists and turns in the relationship she has with the Doctor make for some great television.She is a fun character and you will love her.

Pete

Penelope Wilton is pretty much excellent in whatever she chooses to do, but with her dramatic background plus a long career in sitcoms she's perfectly placed to do what she does. Uh, if that makes sense.

I heart her. And where the heck is Flydale North? Heh.

Why, it's right here: http://www.flydale-north.org.uk/ :)

marahsarie...That? Is fantastic!

See, now I want to submit an event of the WI bearing all for charity or something. Harriet Jones MP, of course, will not be removing her clothes...

I loved Harriet Jones in ‘AoL’ and ‘WWT’, in fact, she was one of my favourite guest characters. I thought it was great the way she was so self-sacrificing, offering herself to the Slitheen to try and save Rose, and the way she took responsibility, not in a power-seeking way, but because she was an elected official. And the ‘Made in Britain!’ as she gets out unscathed of the armoured Cabinet Room was great.

In ‘The Christmas Invasion’ I was a little disappointed that she'd become such a hawk, but given what she'd seen in ‘AoL/WWT’ it was kind of understandable, and like the poster above, I did think she did the right thing about the Sycorax. She did seem like she regretted having to do it. I hadn't made the connection like Miss Cam did about asking for the assistant's name in ‘TCI’ after what happened to Indra in ‘AoL’, but I love that they had that continuity, and that she was still protective of Rose (didn't she call her ‘My precious girl’ or something?).

I really hope we see more of her.

I adore her character because she seems to me a genuinely good person who can still fuck up. I loved her pointed reply to the White House as well as her turnaround with the Torchwood WMDs. As PM, she has to sell her soul sometimes, and, like Pooki said, she was sorry. Things that more responsibility and power do to you and all that. I do wonder what happened to her mother. I hope she got that bill passed.

If it's the cottage hospitals they're mentioned in The Christmas Invasion.

Ok I have seen the Xmas episode. I adore how she keeps showing everyone her ID and telling them who she is. And taking names and offering cuppas. Nice touch of continuity.
Her appeal for the Doctor made me cry too. Along with Rose.

I have seen her elsewhere but she rocks! And now I get that joke too.

Hey so which Doctor is correct - 9 or 10 over her being PM?

The implication is that Ten has changed history. Originally, as per Nine, Harriet led Labour to three election victories but, due to the way things play out in TCI Ten brings down her goverment prematurely. The real world reason for this, though, is that Penelope Wilton has said she wouldn't be open to playing the character a third time so they had to find an excuse for having any PM appearing in episodes set between now and 2020 not be her.

Of course, they've left it open enough that there's room for Penelope Wilton to change her mind at some point.

I think there's enough unspoilered in that post to figure out what happens, Nuallain. Maybe add a few more black bars?

Anyway, I don't see why they can't just mention Jones by name but not feature her as a character. Neither the Doctor nor Torchwood are supposed to be affiliated with her, are they?

Better?

It is worth pointing out that Wilton is not saying she will not do Doctor Who again-she does simply not expect to be asked again. She stated in a recent Dreamwatch interview that as it was Doctor Who anything is possible.......

Have only seen her in AOL so far but I really loved her. She's doing ernest, plucky and well intentioned, really well. You know she's a good guy without making her so saccarine that people hate her. I don't think I've seen her in anything else.

Oh, she's been in tons of stuff. She was Shaun's Mum in Shaun of the Dead, and she was in Calander Girls, and loads of British TV.

As a HUGE Shaun of the Dead fan, it was quite a delight to see her. I kept saying "We're coming to get you, Barbara!"

I for one didn't like what happened in the Christmas special. What she did was stupid. She had access to an actual expert in all things alien, maybe it would have been a good idea to ask before zapping those ugly horrible bastards? What if she was starting intergalactic war and certain annihilation fo the Earth? I understand that there were pressures and I'm sure that her actions weigh on her conscience now. I'm not so sure that great future as a leader that the ninth Doctor predicted is going to happen now. However, I just adore the character, the actress was just wonderful and I hope we see her again. Either in DW or in that spinoff show I'm always getting wrong.. Torchwood?

To be fair, the Sycorax had already revealed themselves to be chancers and conmen rather than the vanguards of an alien fleet; if they were serious about taking over the Earth, or actually meant anything to the rest of their race, they wouldn't have turned up with such a half-hearted bluff, would they?

Something I didn't like about TCI - aside from that "suddenly there's a tiny trapdoor right underneath the Sycorax leader and the Doctor somehow knows which button to press" nonsense - was the crapness of the Sycorax's threat. Give up half of the population into slavery or a third will die? Well you'd let that third die, wouldn't you? Eh? Now - give up a third or half will die; that's a dilemma.

Harriet is one of the great triumphs of New Who for me. Interesting to see such a likeable character during her first appearance, become a more morally compromised, ambiguous figure in her second.

I do hope Penelope Wilton is invited back to the series.

Highly unlikely - her plotline in TCI happened the way it did pretty specifically because they wanted to be able to have the PM in later stories and not be tied down to trying to get Wilton, who is a very very busy actress. I agree it's a crying shame - she was brilliant, Harriet Jones is possibly my favourite fictional national leader ever (a strong resemblance to Helen Clark helps) and I was on her side, not the Doctor's.

I agree completely Sixthlight, it was a shame what they did to her character, though I can see why given her scheduling demands.

I got to this part of Jacob's recap of WWIII:

and was all "Whoa. Freaky prescient like at the end of his Bad Wolf recap," until I remembered that Jacob's first episode of Who was The Christmas Invasion. Makes one wonder what a person whose first exposure to Harriet is that episode thinks of her character. I can't fathom, because my opinion of what she does there is so dependent on going into the episode having already seen her in AoL/WWIII.

There I go being clever.

Yeah, I loved her then, and loved her more in AOL/WW3. Love her still. She's the only person on the show that makes any sense to me at all.

Really, the main effect that scene had on me was making me love and respect the Doctor more, for his rage. That scene is what made me like the show.

Unfortunately, I saw this as RTD sacrificing Harriet on the Altar of the Doctor, for no good reason. Sure, there was the rage, and it was justified, but it felt like character assassination of poor Harriet, to me. She was this wonderful, fun character, who got an audience reaction like like Norm on Cheers ("Harriet!"). Suddenly, she's a mass murderer. It would be like having Norm suddenly burn down the bar.

I agree completely Edsel, I thought it was just a quick out to once again show the triviality of humans and our teensy little minds and the AWESOMENESS of Ten.

I was actually ticked because... we get it. I promise you RTD, you love the Doc, we know. Trust me, we know. No, really, we know, God, I mean Ten GOOOD! We're not worthy, yadda, yadda, yadda. Please can we move on? No? Okay.

Sigh.

Having just seen it again, I have to say -- I am still not convinced he's right, so I would question the "sacrifice." I think they both had valid points and that it's a sticky situation, but not one where she's completely worthless in the end. I completely see what you're saying, but I would question very strongly any viewpoint that took the Doctor's judgment as foolproof.

Poor Harriet Jones - painting her as a mass murderer to make the Doctor look good.

All it accomplished with me is a feeling of loathing for Ten.

There is a good chance I might have done the same as she did in her shoes, in that fraught moment.

Nine's predictions of a golden age did not, perhaps, refer to her first term. English/British Prime Ministers can return after periods of being out of power (see: bicameral parliamentary systems, Churchill, Clinton's Arkansas governorship and what followed) and it's altogether possible that a tougher, more experienced Harriet enjoys a resurgence.

I'll stick to what I said over in the "Christmas Invasion"; Prime Minister Jones was right, the Doctor was wrong, and petty and arbitrarily cruel. which I'll put down to post-regen loopiness.

I am definitely hoping that Penelope Wilton/PM Jones can be wooed back and worked back into, DW.

I don't know if we even need to do that; it seems perfectly in keeping with his "there is no higher authority" attitude. Harriet challenged him by not consulting him, so she went down. Not that I'm don't think he didn't genuinely also believe she'd done something wrong, but there were large elements of wresting back control embedded in that.

Maybe we need a "Bring Back Harriet" campaign? :P

Sixthlight


Sign me up, and send me a button!

And me, I thought she was ace

Over here in the States, I would proudly wear a "Harriet Jones for President" button.

That's rather apposite, considering that later in the season we learn there's an alternate universe where Harriet Jones is not only leading Britain into a Golden Age, but is President rather than Prime Minister of Britain. It's only a throwaway mention, but reads like a shout-out to the fans who were furious at her departure. Maybe if the planned Rose spinoff had gone ahead, we'd have seen her. Who knows?

I wonder how Jones would handle the American system? And who would she have as her vice president, do you suppose?

Harking back to what the Doctor pulled on her, I suppose I should feel grateful that it only resulted in (at worst) losing the prime minister's position. There's a long and unfortunate history of world leaders refusing to do what the Doctor ordered and being fried, chopped up, torn limb from limb, and otherwise ushered from the world prematurely.

Changed thread title; sad.

Badly, being neither rich, nor male, nor prone to thanking God for everything.

Mind you, I think that mostly because she really truly deeply reminds me of the fine body of women running my country presently, and I have trouble seeing her in an American context.

I think my sad little, delusions of granduer-filled, backwards ass country (yay USA!) would do well with Harriet Jones at the helm.



Don't forget that she also doesn't blame improper conduct on a very convenient denied homosexuality and molestation by a priest at a young age. (Ok, not the President, but come on, people, these guys are who we're voting into office?) I say if Harriet Jones, PM ran the good ole US of A, half the world might not hate us as much (though she'd probably do a right good job at pissing off half the universe instead)--but then again she'd have to overcome the 51% of religliously conservative middle Americans who voted Dubya into a second term. And since she's (seemingly) unmarried, childless, and has no fervent religious affiliations, I don't see that as very likely.

You got any salt you want to sprinkle while the wounds are still fresh ;-)

She's also have to overcome those people who didn't vote, or those people who say they voted liberally, but lied. They'll be the toughest.