Here's the place to discuss The Doctor Who Kissed Someone.

I was sad that the 1996 movie never took off. Unfortunately FOX owned the rights to Doctor Who for several years and even though they weren't going to make a new series they didn't allow BBC to make the new series for several years.

Paul McGann was cute (I was 16 at the time), which aside from Peter Davison, I didn't think the previous Doctors were. I ended up buying most of the Eighth Doctor books, even if I had to buy them from amazon.co.uk .

The long curly hair and the clothes were always described as Edwardian in the books.

I, too, was sad we didn't get to see more of the Eighth Doctor. I haven't read any books, but I've listened to some of the audio adventures on BBC radio online. There's an online audio version of a redone Shada with him, which I really enjoyed.

I loved his version of Shada. It's amazing how well he did with lines that were scripted for the Fourth Doctor, with just a few changes to fit with the altered premise.

I've recently managed to acquire a large number of Big Finish audios and am looking forward to seeing how well he does in them. He really needed a better run than one film.

Just as I have done for the first seven Doctors, I suppose I should make a reference list of McGann's era on tv:

160. Doctor Who - 1 episode

Short list. Paul McGann only got one TV movie to appear in, and when you consider that McCoy was present for the first bit, and McGann is suffering from post-regenerative weirdness in the second bit, we get precious little of his Doctor. Those so inclined can see what happened next via many books, audios and comics that have been steadily accumulating since 1996.

As for the actual TV movie, it occasionally shows up on Sci-Fi network, but even though it has been almost 10 years exactly since it first aired on Fox, a DVD release in the US has yet to materialize. We are told it has something to do with complicated rights issues, and maybe they will clear up if the new series is a hit.

If you just can't wait, it has been released in the UK, though you would need to do some special jiggery-pokery to your DVD player to play it.

Final note. This is the 160th story, going by the numbering given by the good folks who are releasing the DVDs in America. They seem to be counting Shada (though it was never completed), and the Trial season as four distinct stories (though it was broadcast with just one title).

In any event, with the new Eccleston series, maybe its best to think of the show in terms of episodes, in which case the TV movie is the 696th episode. Frightening, innit?

As no one else has actually voiced their opinion on his one solitary TV story, I thought I should. It's all right, but nothing special. Nice effects, though. And a nifty sight gag involving the TARDIS.

Also, contains a powerful moral about always looking through the window (or whathaveyou) before you step out your door.

I was disappointed as well that the movie didn't spawn a series after it was shown. It's hard to believe it was almost ten years ago that it aired. I really would have liked to see where Paul McGann would have taken the character.

Are you familiar with the Big Finish audio adventures? I think they give a good indication that Mr. McGann would've made a great TV Doctor.

If anything, they should make at least one more thing with McGann, to show his regeneration to Eccleston.

I believe I heard McGann has said he would be willing to do a regeneration scene, since McCoy did one for him. So that might still be a possibility.

Do we need one though? All of us little fans boys are crying out for one, but when all's said and done, the absense of an 8th/9th Doctor handover makes Rose a nice easy starting point for new watchers, in the exact same way that the 7th/8th Doctor regeneration makes the TVMovie a head scratcher for any new viewers. To be honest, I'm so used to him on audio, I don't know how I'd feel about seeing him on TV again. Plus, it's unlikely we'd get EcclesCake back to film it.

You don't really need Eccleston. We could have a story where, say, the Doctor & Rose are fighting Evil Overlord <x>, who, the Doctor reveals, was seemingly destroyed when the 8th Doctor sacrificed his life to stop him. Then we cut to a flashback where we see this happening, as the Doctor narrates. The flashback ends with McGann dramatically falling to the ground (in slo-mo, of course), landing with a really loud THUD (with lots of bass). Then we cut to an overhead shot of his body, and we start slowly zooming in on his face, which starts to glow and morph, and the glowing gets brighter and brighter until--

-- we cut back to David Tennant saying, "and that's how I regenerated." (or whatever)
[/armchair director]

I haven't heard any of the audio adventures but reading that he may have been a great Doctor makes sigh a bit more.

I wouldn't mind seeing that, areacode.

I second that. Obviously you have thought a fair bit about this huh?

Well, not really--I just tried to think of something cool!

If we ever see him again, I hope he's wearing something closer to Christopher Eccleston's outfit than the one from the TVM. I always thought that the 8th Doctor's full Edwardian gear looked pretty cheesy, and I liked to imagine that after the TVM finished, he came to his senses, went back into the TARDIS and changed into something else.

I read something somewhere where Paul McGann was quoted as saying that the outfit he would have wanted to wear for his Doctor was the same kind of thing that Eccleston's Doctor wore.

I have to admit, I found the full Edwardian gear rather sexy-looking, but then again, it might a combination of the gear and the fellow who was wearing.



Oh, and finding the scarf in the locker was rather amusing, too.

I like that theory. I also think that would serve as a nice metaphor for the transition between the old series and the new series.

I love Paul McGann, and I love his Doctor SO MUCH. He's up there with Eccleston as the two best actors ever to play the Doctor, and the Big Finish audios are a real treat to listen to. He's amazing in them, a wonderful actor with such a gorgeous, evocative voice. I don't know how he manages to embody the sheer enjoyment and drama of being the Doctor without hamming it up, but he pulls it off. And he is the Doctor. Even without seeing him I can feel his Doctorness and accept it unquestioningly. Damn. Too bad about the crappy movie, but even then he was fantastic in it.

Well, I saw some little clips of the TV movie without sound (there was a song playing over it) in a fanvid online today (it's here. Spoilers for Doctors Nine and Ten), and I'm sort of intrigued by the movie and I want to see it now. Alas, I live in the US. Is there any way for US whovians to see it without a region free DVD player?

Like I said, I've only seen tiny clips without sound, but Seven's death in the movie really disturbs me for some reason. I mean, here's a guy who's been from one end of creation to the other, laughing in the face of death, saving planets or the universe...and he gets shot. By accident. I don't know why, but I find that really upsetting and sad. But, in the end I guess it's okay because it gave us Paul McGann, who I like in general, even though I haven't really seen him as the Doctor.

You would think since the 1996 movie originally aired on FOX, that there would be some copies laying around, but it appears to be out of print. Aside from looking through used book stores and libraries, the SciFi Channel used to re-broadcast it late nights, but I don't think they've done so since they've aired the newer series.

Given the time frame when it aired, the copies you do find might be on VHS.

Some of the Paul McGann's Big Finish productions as the Eighth Doctor might also be floating around in libraries and used book stores. He does have a wonderful tone of voice.

Oddly enough, I got so invested in the Eighth Doctor books and imagining the backstory that it took me a while to get used to Nine, because he wasn't Eight.

I believe here are fan (LiveJournal) communities out there that might be of help. I don't know their exact URLs though. Does anyone know?

One of my favorite 8th Doctor audios is "Shada", the Douglas Adams story that was supposed to be a 4th/Romana TV ep. Filming got cancelled because of a strike, I believe. Anyway, it works great as an audio and Paul McGann and Lalla Ward have great chemistry. And Oliver Wood from the Harry Potter movies is in it too.

Adina, did you know that Shada was animated and put onto the BBC site? I watched it a few days ago. It's highly entertaining.

It's so strange hearing Paul say lines meant for Tom. He's good, but they really were Tom lines.

Yep, I saw that before getting the audio, but it works better for me as an audio only. I agree about the lines' fitting Baker more. The Doctor in the story seemed a bit more whimsical than 8th was. It's funny especially after watching "The 5 Doctors" and seeing the "Shada" footage used (clumsily) to set up Baker's non-involvement. Hee. But they still did a great job with fixing up "Shada" for McGann, I thought.

Raksha writes:


Well, Universal holds the North American rights, and has never felt especially bothered to negotiate with Fox and Auntie for a commercial release. However, they did sell rerun rights to the Encore MoviePlex channel, who will occasionally air it at odd hours (unfortunately, it's not scheduled to air in the near future).

And I don't get the Encore channels anyway. Damn.

Well, I've been meaning to get a region free DVD player for some time now, so this is just more incentive!

There's an interesting bit in Eight's Wikipedia entry that says there's speculation that it was actually him that fought in the Time War, given that Nine apparently hasn't looked in a mirror before Rose and he's wearing Eight's costume in the 1912 photo. This would give some context to what caused Eight to regenerate, which has never been explained in the show itself.

I always thought so. Eight was so full of life and romantic, its very easy to imagine that after seeing what he had done in the time war, he simply "died" of shock.

Eegah, I believe that too, given that as you say the 9th didn't even know what he looked like when he met Rose, then it could only mean that it was the 8th in the Time War. As for the photos of 9th in Clive's collection, did he really do those things before meeting Rose, or couldn't it be possible that that he did those things while away from Rose for a while? He couldn't have done all those things and yet not looked in a mirror all that time. Bit of a problem there.

Whatever it is, I'm hoping they address that during this season or at least at some point in DT's run. I would really, really love to see Paul McGann as the Doctor again.

The Doctor disappeared in the Tardis for 2 seconds then re-appeared at the end of Rose, but he could've had years of unseen adventures in-between.

I'd love to see a "Three Doctors More" two-part episode with Paul, Chris and David.

Since they always seemed to involve Gallifrey, perhaps have the three go back in a massive effort to restore Gallifrey.

Unfortunately, Davies has said that he's not bringing in past Doctors any time soon.

But that doesn't mean he'll never do it, right??? (She says desperately.)

The little bits of Doctor Eight that I've been able to see have intrigued me a great deal, and I would really like to see the TV movie... and some more!

I can only vaguely remember the movie, possibly the idea of Eric Roberts as the Master just shocked my system too much. So can somebody clarify...The last tv doctor was Sylvestor McCoy (who I never saw since they didn't show his season/s on my PBS station) but he was 7 right? So 7 gets killed in the first minutes of the movie to become Paul McGann?
BTW I didn't mind the Edwardian get up. But then I like that look on thin men like Sting in the Bride.

Also in the Big Finish stories does 8 keep the medical doctor who helped him in the movie as a companion or what happened to her? Thanks

I'm pretty sure we never see Grace (the medical doctor) again. According to the Big Finish website they created a new Companion named Charley and later on added a second Companion, named C'rizz from their monthly audio releases. This of course puts them in conflict with the Eighth Doctor Adventures (8DA) published by BBC books. Neither the Big Finish stories nor the BBC books are considered official canon for the new series.

Yup. I haven't seen the movie, just bits in a fanvid that I linked up thread, but Seven's death is in that fanvid and it is really disturbing to me.

I don't know about the books, but the Big Finish audios and the BBC audios before them had the actual actors, as well as the series writers, so a lot of the fans consider them canon, especially in PM's case since that's all we have of him as the Doctor other than the TV movie. But I agree about their not being officially referenced for the new series, which is fine with me since there's something about the new DW series that's putting me off. I prefer the classic episodes. Back to Big Finish: I waver on Charley -- sometimes I like her, sometimes she annoys the hell out of me, but I really love PM in the audios.

Argh. They have to explain the whole Time War thing one of these days, and they have to bring Gallifrey back to life. Bring back the Eighth Doctor!


Actually, he survives the shooting and wakes up in the hospital when they're trying to work on him, but Grace freaks out about the two hearts and he still dies, and regenerates in the morgue. Still not a fun death/regeneration.

Hee. I never liked the Seventh Doctor, not one little bit, so was hugely amused by his "Tum te tum, step out of the TARDIS - GAK!" departure. But he still managed to annoy me right up to the end, what with all that ridiculous gurning during the regeneration scene.

McGann's Doctor I thought definitely had potential, although I thought the 'half-human' revelation was a mistake, which thankfully seems to have been ignored by RTD and co. He had a zest and glee about every new thing he experienced, which after the bombastic arrogance of Six and the sneaky manipulations of Seven was a change for the better. Too bad he only did the one story. Oh well...

I think you'll have to wait until Davies leaves for Gallifrey to come back. I think they made a concentrated effort to get rid of Gallifrey in order to create a new starting point without all the baggage for the new series. I'm not sure that they'd undo all that.

Plus, I think if they did undo the effects of the Time War, that would undermine a lot of the power of Nine's stories.

As for the Eighth Doctor, I just saw the TVM for the first time. Not really a fan. All the concessions to the Americans kind of choked the life out of it (Eric Roberts didn't help in the least, either). In the handful of scenes where Eight was being Eight, he seemed alright. But give me Nine or Ten any day.

Heh. Well, I can understand that. It was actually the "Tum te tum, step out of the TARDIS - Gak!" that disturbed me so. I mean, this guy has gotten himself in and out of mortal danger more times than probably even he can remember, and he gets taken out like that? It's just the randomness of it that I find so disturbing. I guess I just feel that someone like the Doctor should have meaningful deaths.

After watching it, it wasn't the gunshots that killed him. It was the fuckups of doctors he had, most especially Grace, who kept taking x-rays and seeing two hearts, figured the machine must be malfunctioning, and then went probing that killed him. He was actually waking up and starting to seem fine before they put him under.

Ah, I see. Thanks! Yet somehow, the Doctor dying from medical malpractice doesn't make me feel much better.

I mentioned that too.
The scene was especially frustrating because they wouldn't listen to him.

They don't have to undo the War, just show (1) Eight leading up to Nine, and (2) the resolution of the Time War with the participation of Nine. So he could have all that angst intact and a happy ending, too.

In a way I guess I can live with the Time War not being within this current season's scope, as I am really not liking Tennant in the role.

I was skimming through the 1996 movie when I realized that Grace and the Doctor have the same hairstyle in the end. Although, both of them could use a good conditioner.

I never understood why they had that idea about the Doctor being half-human anyway, it didn't even go anywhere in the movie, unless they thought people would be creeped out by Grace kissing a full alien? And it was so obviously ripped off of Mr Spock anyway.

My guess is that the half-human thing was done for the American audiences. I'm sure some genius thought that the US audience would be more accepting of him if they made him half-human.

I mean he had been an alien since 1963, so the British didn't seem to mind. It's only when Fox and the United States get actively involved that he's suddenly half-human. It seems to be the logical conclusion.

Frankly (I'm going to rant here for a second) the TVM was so badly done I can't believe it. It has to be one of the worst introductions/pilots I've ever seen, if for no other reason than the glut of exposition and name-dropping it starts out with. If you're familiar with Who and its history you can get along, but you get annoyed by getting told a lot of stuff you already kind of knew.

I look at the way the TVM did things and then I look at Rose and I shake my head. Yes, it's nice that you get the regeneration scene and it's important to long time viewers, but I really think it only serves to confuse new viewers and turn them off and that's the audience that any pilot is aiming for. Honestly, if you really had to keep the scene at least have Seven do something more than just drink a cup of tea, step out of the TARDIS, and get shot.

Of course the other problem is that it just reeks of American intervention. I'm American, but one of the things I love about Who is that it feels so British. America does several things quite well (I don't think Britain would have come up with Buffy, at least the early years, despite its popularity over there), but Who is something best done by the British.

I don't mean to totally hate on it. As a story it's an ok Who story, maybe a C, but as a pilot it fails horribly.

Sorry for the rant.

Was rewatching this episode last night, I hadn't seen it since it aired, and While I would have really liked to have seen more of McGann and his adventures I really don't think that they would have been that great, I have little faith in Fox doing something good, though I am assuming that the when they set up the half human part were going to have it be a story arc of some kind.

What I hated about the half-human thing was that it seemed to diminish the Doctor's long-established fondness for humans and the Earth. I always liked the idea that this eccentric wanderer from a powerful alien race sort of took a liking (after some initial distrust) to us. When it was "revealed" that the Doctor was half-human, suddenly it was as if we really hadn't earned his trust and admiration, we were just the other side of the family he fled to when he didn't fit in with the Time Lords.

And it also ruined the idea that the Doctor was just an ordinary Time Lord who rejected his people's non-intervention philosophy. (For similar reasons, I wasn't a fan of the "more than a Time Lord" Cartmel Master Plan in the 7th Doc episodes and novels.)

It also seemed like a prelude to (if it had turned into a series) a whole running plot of the Doctor being torn between his human and Time Lord sides, which didn't appeal to me at all.

That said, there were some fun Doctorish moments in the TVM. When the Doctor points the gun at his own head, I thought "hey, someone gets it -- the Doctor isn't just Jim Kirk with an accent and a police box."

That's my favourite part of the movie. It's just so... Doctorish.

I forget the details, but the Doctor has been detained by a motorcycle cop. I think he distracts the cop or something, takes the guy's gun, and then points it at his own head, threatening to shoot himself. If I recall correctly, he then takes the cop's motorcycle and takes off to resume his pursuit of the Master.

I may try to dig up my old videotape of the TVM this weekend.