The thing is that we don't have access to the Nielsen numbers directly. All the public ratings information online is filtered through some media outlet. And Marc Berman at mediaweek.com and pifeedback.com always rounds his numbers off when reporting them. Sometimes he rounds up, sometimes down. It just depends how he feels about it. People have mentioned it to him that it would have made more sense to round down when he has rounded up and vice versa and he doesn't seem too pressed about it. So, these are approximations. Same with zap2it.com which also rounds figures off. Other news items use their figures and they likewise round off numbers.

oooooohhh but Wrestling Lois wasn't show on trailers..in fact if you didn't pay attention on the smackdown you wouldn't know Wrestling Lois was on the episode.

Anyway. I heard that Smallville is going to air in some areas tomorrow...those rating will count to the final ones???

I mean the Final Ratings will be: Thursday's + Saturday's????

I watch American stations via satellite, and two of my 4 CW stations were pre-empted. I can't imagine that helped things along.

Which two stations? Just wondering because I didn't hear of another preemption besides Chicago and I'm wondering what other city didn't show it and what programming it aired instead.

But ooooooohhh, they had promo photos out about it for weeks. How many people here alone said that they were skipping both Promise and Combat? Anyone who ganders online knew about it.

CW didn't promote ED in this one, true. But then again, one usually only tries to promote what will put bums in front of the television. Adverting ED in Arrow and Rage didn't help them any at all. So really no surprise there either.

Promise didn't leave people wanting more, and anyone who went online or caught the WWE stuff could of easily tuned out because of either of them. Or simply the lack of adverts. Or people realized there was a new UB on.

There are a lot of factors.



Really? Ouuch.

Honestly I think it was written as semi-filler and to be a come back to the last 7 episodes ep; tagging it directly after Promise... I don't think even the Bestest Episode Ever (whatever that may be) could do great after it.

I would say the Male Demo just plain stayed away from Promise on and might be back by Progeny, whereas the additional Women 18-34 were only in it for the Lexana wedding orgasm fetish and have no interest with anything else dealing with Superman or Clark Kent. I'm still weighing watching Combat, even if Clark looks so sexy and so fine. The Chloe getting scooped and undercut by her cousin supposedly IC!Lois just gripes and grates on me. I would love it if some one could post the exact minutes where Clark, Belle Reve and the fight are located in the episode so I can just FF to those parts. pweeze?

While there were other factors working against this episode, it does look like the ratings were hurt by "Promise." 4.2 million viewers is not only the low for the season, it's close to a series low: 4x11 was about as low, and 4x17, 4x21, and 5x18 were lower, but that's about it. Also, "Combat" was apparently at about 1.7 amongst the 18-49 year-olds, so it looks like the demos suffered too. I just hope they don't interpret it the way Scry fears they will: Knowing them, though....

I think without a doubt it was PROMISES's fault...I mean how many of us online viewers are nielsen families?

Look at the half hour break down..3.77 is horrible for the first half hour, but it went up to 4.46 in the second half hour...Which just happens to be when people would know that clark would be fighting. I think Promise killed this episode..And the CW may very well have killed the show for the rest of the year by not airing a "Coming up on Smallville in 4 weeks" trailer for the rest of the season like Supernatural did..But we know Supernatural handles their own trailers...

Seriously, how do you not get the word out as soon as possible that Wonder Woman is going to be on Smallville (sorta)?

Hmm. Odd that you attribute less-than-average ratings with ED. Coincidentally, those two episodes were also the two big GA episodes. But I guess it's easy to pin it on an actress solely because you don't like her character.

I think that was a HUGE dumb mistake. They went on hiatus without telling their audience EXACTLY when to come back. That wouldn't have cost them a thing and it would keep the audience anticipating the return of the show instead of risking the audience getting out of the habit of watching on Thursday evenings. Other shows do countdowns for the return of new episodes and the CW lets the audience leave without anything to pull them back in? It's like the CW doesn't even do the basics.

And Progeny will be preempted for baseball in Chicago, too, unless there is a rain out. So, Progeny could use a promo push. But, they under promoted Justice so I frankly can't see them getting it together for Progeny.

Finals:

pifeedback.com

oooooooooo

So about how much do you think was from the preemptions?

I reckon it would've gotten about 4.25 million viewers had it not been for the preemption, and probably even higher if it hadn't followed Promise or gotten shafted by The CW's promotional department.

It's a trend noted by the producers way back in Lucy. Happened again in Exposed. And Fanatic. When one starts piling them up, then yeah that's a possibility.

GA's biggest episode, Justice, did pretty well. But sure, people could not be down with Lollie. But as I remember a big Reunion and Wither which had descent amounts of Ollie did ok.

But don't pin it all on me - Almiles said it first. *shrug* Trends exist.



I agree with this.

Thanks Scry

Man, I hope the ratings for "Progeny" aren't as bad as Combat since that is being preempted too. And I hope the CW gets their shit together and start promoting these episodes as much as they did with Promise.

Wow. Too bad, I liked Combat.

I am concerned about Progeny, though - no promo, no advertising, no idea when it comes back. This could bode poorly.

See, this is what pisses me off.

So far, Smallville and Supernatural have always aired the same episode number at the same time (Freak aired the night of their 15th episode, Promise during their 16, Combat during their 17th, etc.). Immediately after Supernatural's 15th episode, they started showing the trailer for their 16th episode, which aired one month later (like Promise). Now, after their 17th episode (our Combat), they immediately started airing trailers for their 18th episode (our Progeny) which is again one month away. Smallville? Starts airing trailers a week before their next episode airs.

Now, I've heard that Supernatural uses their own budget to make their own trailers (which are usually themed, and they rock). What's going on with Smallville? Progeny was filmed quite a while ago, and frigging Lynda Carter's in it! What the fark?

My guess is that given that Supernatural has a cast of two and is only in their second season, the operating budgets for SPN are smaller. Which means more money for advertising. Also with a majority of directors leaving SV (given how important they are in the whole process on the s5 dvds) and such, that the SV production teams are spread to their max as it is.

I agree a trailor should be out - if they can leak clips on yahoo 2 weeks early then they should be able to throw together a 'in the coming weeks' trailor -- aren't they filming the finale right now? It would be good. One of the great things about s5 in terms of adverts, IMO, was they had going into s5 and then later the one with Bo's Void voice over, really good mishmashed up exciting promos for when the shows returned.

But then again, I think the WB knew that SV was a powerhouse and consistent in ratings and went out of it's way to air stuff for it; I don't get the feeling that the people in charge of the CW like SV or SPN (hence SPN taking it's own money to show off it's awesomeness. Which, in the end, IMO, works better because it's the tone of the show and really plays up the coolest parts.)

But my guess is that they are using all their money for the finale right now, and with a bigger cast, and a smaller production team, they don't have the money or people to do it.

Maybe that it the case Chiriru, but you would think they'd want to at least show some kind of trailer for upcoming episodes so they won't risk a bigger drop in ratings than it's already going to because of preemptions. They should have showed some part of Progeny after Crimson like they did with Promise after Freak aired.

Indeed the promo department really needs to get their act togheter I only hope they are preparing to air a big exciting the 5 last episodes of the season kind of cool trailer during the award ceremony...Like they wanting to let the cool things as desert...

Supernatural does its own commercials cuz the CW/WB ones sucked. The show does save on money because Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles are the only 2 regulars and also because they shoot at locations all the time. The only sets they ever build are the motel rooms the boys stay in and the beer that they drink pretty much.

Maybe Smallville could do like Supernatural did a couple months ago. Supernaturals episodes always start with a THEN segment where they show clips of previous ep stuff and then go to NOW when it starts. At the end of their 8th episode, they did a SOON segment which completely threw all the fans for a loop and was KICK.ASS. because it showed all the great stuff coming up.

I didn't understand what you meant by this. That if Chloes mother had something to do with Lana or Lois then that would make the episode bad? Just wondering.

What he meant was that for people who were pretty repulsed at the Lana-fest and character assassination fest that was Promise, there would be an episode that wouldn't be all about Lana and a guest star who wouldn't be stalking Lana/kissing Lois but actually do something more connected with what the show should be about.

Unfortunately, I tend to smell "Poochification" because frankly, Goughlar are both shameless and careless.

I just think that the producer of SPN is doing his best to drum up interest in his show though I suppose we should be glad Goughlar don't, considering their interviews tend to piss people off instead of entice. (Briefly wonders what kind of trailers they'd produce.)

So, apparently the Brick Awards are still airing on April 12, but in Supernatural's time slot. Crimson will be airing at the regular Smallville time.

I guess my question is... why in fark's name wouldn't they still air Progeny (especially since Ugly Betty is airing a recap special)?

Scry - Where did you hear they're airing Crimson on 4/12?

I completely agree with you they should air Progeny on 4/12. No preemption in Chicago. Up against a recap UB instead of a new episode on 4/19. Otherwise, the slots are the same.

The only downside is that it would leave Supernatural without a new SV lead-in for the finale or maybe they feel SV will miss out on the lead out of Supernatural (considering how Supernatural goes down in ratings, I don't think SV benefits that much from Supernatural as a lead out), but even so, to me the upside WAY outweighs that. It reminds me how the CW waited to premiere their new shows until *after* all the other networks started their new schedules when the WB use to always start their seasons early to snatch bored viewers into checking out their shows first. The CW should take advantage of repeats on the other channels and start the new batch of episodes off with a really great guest star like Lynda Carter. It helps bring in attention to new episodes that might help offset the ratings loss because of preemptions.

Is there any way to bug them about this? Do they have a way to give them feedback on this scheduling?

And so far no trailers of Progeny? No stills? No publicity, right? Didn't Justice had at least *some* promotion by this point during the hiatus (3 weeks before). It seems like Promise did because people talked about seeing the trailers for that early.

Yeah, I was just about to mention that too. There has been absolutely *no* promotion for any of the episodes after the hiatus. I remember a lot of people missed "Subterranean" because it came on after a short hiatus and they didn't have a clue when because of no promotion. It might have been a good thing for "Subterranean", but for an episode that's supposed have Lynda Carter, you think they'd do *something*. A month-long hiatus after just two episodes itself isn't great; if they refuse to do any promotions to remind people when they'll be back and with what, I can see why the CW is going down the drain. They're hardly capitalizing on the few good things they have.

The only reason I see for them not going for "Progeny" on April 12 is because of the timeline they've followed with "Supernatural". I'm imagining they want to end in sync, though I don't see why they can't do that by breaking somewhere in the middle for a week and letting "Supernatural" catch up. It'd be one more break though, I guess. Is it just me or does this season seem to have more breaks (and longer ones at that) than the others?

DTS has just posted "Progeny" stills

SQUEE!!

After all the garbage lately, I was thinking I'd give up and not even watch Progeny despite how excited I was about it. But, one look at those stills, and I know I don't have the willpower to do it. Lynda Carter!!! Now, I'm all greedy and want more stills!

Supposedly the reason The CW pushed so many shows back is that they want more original programming during May sweeps. Makes sense, since sweeps are such an important time period and in the past The WB got through everything pretty early, thus missing out on those valuable sweeps airings.

Extending Smallville to May 17th allows The CW to get in the final sweeps date of the sweeps period (April 26th-May 23rd) for Thursdays. As it is, every show will be running entirely through sweeps except for the Monday night comedies and 7th Heaven (and Gilmore Girls -- BUT the 22nd, the last date in sweeps, will have its spot taken by a two-hour Veronica Mars).

I love Linda but what's up with Chloe and Lois' mother's looking nothing like them? Lois' mother is blond has a longer face like Chloe, and now Chloe's mom has the same strong jawed apple shaped face like ED!Lois. Are they trying to imply something? Should this be in the spoilers? Will take it there.

Heh, I'm so amused right now. I let out a long rant about the promo department, and the very next post is that announcing new stills. And now I'm sitting here, all bitterness gone, because the stills and the trailer were awesome. Darn show. ;)

Actually, it's not unusual for kids to look like aunts and uncles more than their parents. Heck, my sister and cousin look more like sisters than my sister and I do...but my sister's daughter looks a lot like me. (And acts a lot like me at that age, apparantly.) So, if they were going to get Linda Carter for Chloe's mother, giving her an aunt who looks more like her sorta makes sense. More sense than I would've given the PTB credit for, actually.

And I didn't rewatch "Hydro," but I tuned in early for SPN just in case their was a promo. And it was a good promo. But they really should've shown it after "Combat."

CW ratings roundup!

America's Next Top Model is still dominating, Friday Night Smackdown is consistently strong (and they have a big event coming up this Friday, equivalent to our Justice), and the first repeat airing of Pussycat Dolls Presents continues to do better than the first original airing. Still, repeats of Smallville do almost as well.

Ouch with 7TH HEAVEN...thank god they already cancel it

They cancelled it once before. I'm holding back until September. Never trust it. Never trust them.

That's a repeat of Seventh Heaven so don't go by that.

That's still piss-poor for a repeat. 7th Heaven used to repeat much better; hell, its new episodes used to do much better. The season average is 3.4 million --> last season, the average was 5.2 million. Quite a difference, and one certainly worthy of cancellation. Not to mention, now that Reba's gone, that 7th Heaven is now The CW's weakest performer in the target demo (A18-34). Yes, even compared to the comedies, which get less in millions on viewers.

The CW announced this weekend that 7th Heaven IS definitely ending this year.

Scry - If you check this thread, have you been keeping track of the trailers for Progeny? I haven't seen anyone mentioning seeing any SV promos since one aired a couple of weeks ago and Progeny is *next* week already.

They don't air the promo for the rest season as much as they did "Promise" where I am. They mostly show it late @ night/early morning, which make no sense to me.

I don't watch the CW so unless someone online mentions seeing a promo, I'd have no idea if one aired or not. Liz how many times do you think you've seen the trailer for the rest of the season? I think Scry was keeping track of airings during primetime because those airings are decided by network. Plus, they have the highest likelihood of being seen.

I've been keeping track, Massena, but I don't know how to interpret it. The only trailers they've been running are for reruns (Hydro, Labyrinth, Crimson) and the joint trailer for Progeny, Nemesis, and Prototype. The joint trailer doesn't air very much at all (9 times since March 29). It's hard to give all those points to each episode, since they're not being promoted individually.

I fully expect a Progeny trailer tonight after Crimson. Even though it should've started airing at least a week ago. :\

Massena I'd say I saw the trailer at least 15 times since 'Combat'.



I'm expecting one too. I'm hoping that it will be at least more than 10 seconds. And I agree they should have started airing it last week.

There is a "Progeny" trailer out now, but I can't help shake the feeling that they're not making much of an effort to promote this episode. It airs in under three days, and yet there's still no director's cut up on the CW website. I don't understand why they'd go to all the expense of hiring Lynda Carter as a guest star and then not promote the heck out of the episode. Maybe they just blew their ad budget on "Promise."

Same here. It feels like they already think it a mediocre episode and just can't be bothered, but that just me.

If it weren't for this board, I would have no idea Smallville was returning. And this isn't just about Carter, the show's been in repeats for nearly a month. It's kind of important to get the word out that it's back and new. Real networks generally like having those big, booming, "Five episodes left uninterrupted before the season finale that will changei]everything[/i]" promos. And especially to get people into one of your major shows. Oh well, just another reason CW is utterly incompetent.

You can't turn on NBC without seeing an ad for the last five chapters of Heroes.

Fox has been pimping the new episodes of American Idol, 24 and House like crazy.

But the CW? Hopeless. I guess the Moonroff spent the promo money filming 4 more reality shows.

I occasionally wonder if Moonves is trying to destroy CW. It is a direct competitor after all.

Why should he be so worried? CBS is doing fine on it's own. There's no need to destroy a netlet.

Nah. I just think the PTB don't quite know what they're doing with the CW.

I remember when Moonves was "co-running" UPN. They did quite a lot to try to help UPN, and took quite a few risks in the process. Like spending more money on Buffy the Vampire Slayer than they could ever hope to make back. But they thought the attention and new viewers UPN would get from "stealing" BtVS from the WB would be worth losing the money. And they ran Veronica Mars on CBS, hoping any new folks who saw it on the bigger network would follow it back to the smaller network. And Moonves was one of the folks who jumped all over the merger idea because it seemed like a sure thing UPN wasn't gonna make it as it was for much longer.

So, no, I doubt they are now trying to kill the CW. But, like I said, I just don't think they know what to do with it.