LOL. What a tease! Well, that sucks...

Stupid preemptions. This episode deserved to rate higher than fucking Crimson. :(

Okey I am totally lost....can someone explain me what happened, why some say 5.07 million and others 4.76??? who is right??

Okay.

The fast nationals and the overnights are based on the same markets. So if you compare the overnights and fast nationals for all the episodes you are comparing apples to apples.
(Those are the first figures we get from mediaweek and zap2it.com.)

In this case, as far as I know, SV hasn't been preempted in any of those major markets that comprise the sample used for fast nationals and overnights yet.

However, this week, several smaller markets which are included in the final nationals which come out later on the day after the episode airs, preempted the show (did not show the episode) in that market and showed basketball instead. So Freak was not shown to as many people as the other episodes this season so the ratings went down in the finals as posted today.

However, Nielsen has actually changed its system so the figures that use to be final nationals because they came out in the afternoon and were considered as having included all markets are no longer the final numbers for an episode for the nationals because Nielsen now includes viewing of primetime episodes recorded and viewed on dvr up to a week after the initial airing. It use to only include up to the early morning hours of the following day which allowed finals to be truly finals. But, with this new system the true final figures aren't final until a week later.

I'm sure that is clear as mud, but what you can take from this is that 4.76 is how Freak did on the national level bc it wasn't shown in several places. That number may go up modestly if it is recorded and viewed a lot on dvr's. Also, if you compare apples to apples, which the networks will, because they understand how these things work, they will see that Freak did very well compared to other episodes in the overnights and fast nationals and if it had not been preempted in some markets there is no reason to think it wouldn't have done similarly well in those markets where it wasn't shown. Which is how the overnights and fast national project final figures. They assume the episode will be shown across the country with similar results based on a sample from larger markets. There is sometimes a modest change bc urban viewers might watch a program more than suburban viewers, but generally it is a pretty accurate indication of what finals will look like.

So, MR doesn't get the enjoyment of having surpassed 5 million (bc even if the episode goes up some because of dvr's, it is very unlikely it will go up very much, imo) but MR can still be very proud because it went up in demos from its lead in week-to-week and based on major markets it did outstanding. He just got stuck with a little bad luck because several local affiliates decided that basketball would be better for their ratings than an episode of SV.

That was very informative, Massena. ;) Thanks! You don't happen to do that stuff for a living, do you?

When can we expect the DVR numbers to be factored in?

Yes, thank you, Massena. That was very interesting. But it still doesn't make sense imo to include markets where SV was not shown. What's the point? If the show is not televised, those markets should not be included in the final numbers. I'm probably missing something major here but it seems logical to me.

nzs - You have to think about the fact that the Nielsen ratings exist primarily as a currency for television advertisers. It's how they evaluate how many people are in the potential commercial audience. Therefore, if a program does not air in some markets, there is less of a potential audience for the commercials, and hence there should be lower ratings.

IMHO - it's a totally jackass way of selling commercial airtime or determining the popularity or longevity of a TV program. The methodology for collecting the ratings is downright awful with many of the Nielsen households still using a paper diary to record what they watch. The whole system needs to be modernized.

Thank you, Mediaville. It's clearer now. :)

No, I don't do this for a living. LOL. I just wonder about how things work and either research for curiosity sake or ask questions. www.thefutoncritic.com has a nice breakdown of what ratings are and how they work.

And yes, Mediaville is right, the only relevance to Nielsen ratings is money. They determine how much money a network can charge for ad time on the show, so if local affiliates don't show a program and the ratings go down, then the network can't charge as much for ad time. It's the local affiliates leverage in the situation. If they get unhappy with programming or feel they can do better showing something else, then the network ends up suffering for it in ad rates.

scry - the dvr recording are included up to a week later, so I guess in a week? I don't know. I don't keep up to know where those figures are posted. But, even though Smallville is a very heavily dvr recorded program (one of the highest actually), there aren't that many people who have dvrs at this time so I'd be very surprised if it made a big difference. I don't know the figures on this because on the internet, we have limited access to certain info. For example, the only place to get 18-34 breakdowns I know is from a poster on the pifeedback.com forums who somehow has access to them and sometimes posts them. If he doesn't post them, then the only way they come out is if the network itself releases the info in a press release and they generally only do that if the outcome was very favorable for their program and they want to brag about the ratings. The CW has mostly only done press releases for Gilmore Girls and ANTM nights bc they have done well. I don't think they've done one for SV this season, even for Justice which had excellent ratings.

If you're interested, you may also wish to know that Nielsen started including college age viewers who live on campus in their sample for the first time this January. This was suppose to be a big deal for the CW bc in the original research studies, "Gilmore Girls" and "Veronica Mars" were found to have substantial audiences in this market. The 18-34 ratings for "Gilmore Girls" have gone up since January, but I don't think "Veronica Mars" got a boost as expected. I haven't seen any indication that SV got any boost either. I don't know if any of the other CW shows did. But, it is a flawed system, because they got their college age sample by asking their sample familes if they had any family members living in college dorms and asked those relatives to participate as representatives of that college dorm resident group, but only one third agreed. So, a very VERY small sample of I *think* 50 people represent millions of college dorm residents because the other two thirds didn't want to bother to participate.

In any case, these demos are why Gilmore Girls can charge much more for their ad time than SV even though their overnight and national figures look comparable. Gilmore Girls has better demos so it's worth more to the network in revenue.

I been thinking about this some more. For the purposes of determining viewer interest (not advertising dollars) the numbers that matter must exclude the preempted market. So after careful but brilliant analysis, I've determined the CW should show more eps like "Freak" and have MR direct more often. ;)

Yay, Michael! That is so wonderful about the ratings. I'm so happy it got the numbers it did, for many reasons, but one is simply that more got to see his eppy. The one he put all his effort/heart into, as a director, actor and storyteller, and the result amazing! Michael should be so proud and the show must be so proud of him, *g*. Massena, thank you for the analysis and explaining the discrepancy. I was like, "hrrmph!" at first, but reading your explanation helps much.


*cheers*! Totally, I think 4.76 million is so impressive too (Go, Michael!), and agree with nzs - they just need to ask him to direct more, *g*! I did actually think along those lines after "Freak". I was like, "does the finale have a director yet?", thinking Michael would be perfect (and how lucky we'd be!). But then I knew it wouldn't be fair to him, w/ all that's asked of him for Lex. Still, I know he would deliver a wonderful one. :)

re: the preemptions. Grr!!

Sigh. A bit of bad news, folks.

Instead of airing Progeny on April 12, The CW has now decided to air the Brick Awards on that night. The Lynda Carter episode will now air on April 19 (one whole month after Combat), pushing the tentative finale date to May 17.

March 15, 2007
#6-16 "Promise"

March 22, 2007
#6-17 "Combat

April 19, 2007
#6-18 "Progeny"

April 26, 2007
#6-19 "Nemesis"

May 3, 2007
#6-20 "Noir"

May 10, 2007
#6-21 "Prototype"

May 17, 2007
#6-22 "Finale"

What a horrible decision! Sigh. Oh well. Does anyone know how Dawn's other pet shows (Pussycat Dolls, America's Next Top Model) are doing in the ratings now that they've premiered?

On the bright side, if the Brick Awards do well, they'll probably promote the next week's Smallville heavily... rather than having it follow weeks of repeats. It could go either way.

I hope Pussycat Dolls fails miserably. Though I'm surprised the precious Veronica Mars was taken off the air in favor of it.

To answer my own question...

America's Next Top Model premiered a week and a half ago with 5.36 million viewers, so it's still beating Smallville. The Pussycat Dolls, on the other hand, premiered with 3.93 million viewers. So, boo and hooray.

Other shows just on Smallville's tail are Gilmore Girls (4.47 million viewers) and Friday Night Smackdown (4.67 million viewers).

Nothing has changed Scry...That's how it's been all year..Smallville is the highest rated scripted drama on the network.

I don't have a problem with them bumping it back a week...This break has been only 3 weeks and I haven't really missed it, strangely enough...And it's still shorter than the XMAS break.

The Pussycat dolls getting almost 4 million viewers is a hit for this network..That's better than Supernatural and the rest of the network....So that's not going anywhere I don't think..Although as a fan of Supernatural it has me a bit worried. I wonder if SCIFI would pick up Supernatural if it were cancelled..I can't see it being that much more expensive than Battlestar.

That sucks, o well. Thanks for the info Scry I hope that they promote Progeny and Nemesis as much as they did with Promise, since we gotta wait another month after Combat airs.

What are the Brick Awards anyway??

Wikipedia to the rescue.

Okay, that sounds.... exciting.

Maybe it's NOT a good attention-getter. oops.

......

......

......

Can we all just admit that the CW is some sick inside joke between TBTP and CBS and Warner Brothers? If Who Wants to be A Pussycat Doll was not enough proof, this has to be.

I have heard of working to fail, but the Moonroff is working overtime to put the CW into its grave.

I'm hearing that a lot of people are skipping Promise do you think it will sunk?

A lot of people? How many are "a lot"? And where are they? Here? LOL.

I think my biggest fear is that not only will every single person with a shade of Clanarchism crawl out from under a maggoty log and slay their own mother for a shot at seeing this episode, but that all the people who are disgusted by it will also watch, even if they have to dig out the crystal meth to do so... and, hence, "Promise" will get Smallville's BEST RATINGS EVAH!!! Thereby "proving" to TPTB of the CW and this show that yes, watching the Clana merry-go-round is what people who love Smallville want to see.

Sometimes I wonder if they aren't right. Are we at TWoP and K-Site two little islands of sanity and intelligence, while the rest of the incredibly stupid, tasteless world look at Clana and think it's the best thing since the Bard's R&J? [Juleo? Romiet? Juliomeo? Montaget?....] My brother, who has loved Smallville with a passion since its inception, has finally and with sadness given up on it this season due to the increasing levels of bizarre. He works in a call center, and told me one day that the buddies he works with - all fanboy geeks, keep in mind; not a single pink-loving 12-year-old girl among them - still love the show. Love this season. Think it's the best thing since lightsabres. He still hasn't gotten a straight answer as to why out of any of them; they just all claim to think it's great. I don't know if they're still running on the fumes of "Justice", or live in hopes of seeing the Chloevage and ED's boobs, or what, but... maybe everyone else out there really does like Smallville exactly the way it is. Maybe we really are the only ones who see something horribly, insidiously wrong here. And obviously we don't see enough wrong to stop watching en masse, the way the Clanarchists have, so really... what incentive is out there for TPTB to go for a comic book sensibility rather than the teen soap that seems to be working for them?

On the other hand, in my wildest dreams I sometimes fantasize that Al and Miles are really two Machiavellian geniuses who, being told in no uncertain terms by the CW brass that Clana has to have a reawakening because it brings in the numbers, are doing everything they possibly can to make sure that "Promise" sounds so godawful that the only people that end up watching it are the 250 letter-writing Clanarchists... after which, the CW might leave them alone. Then I remember all the other awful spoilers after "Promise," and that dream dissipates again....

Here, KSite, Supermanhome...

"A lot" is a relative term, based on the sample pool and the audience in question. For instance, I could say "A lot of Lana fan appear to follow their ship like lemmings following each other over a cliff - with much the same regard to the long term consequences." Or, "A lot of people make sarcastic, seemingly pithy responces like A lot of people? How many are "a lot"? And where are they? Here? LOL., when they cannot make a real argument to support their position."

See how easy it is?

Now, unless any of the online folks actually are Neilson families, it won't make a difference if the entire non-Clana loving community boycotts Promise. With all the pimping the episode has gotten (far more than Justice, for reasons that I can not undersatnd using Earth logic), I think it will get 5 million viewers. I do not think it will beat Justice, which brought in old/new viewers. An episode that is 100% Clexana angst will not draw in new folks as well as super heroes and blowing shit up.

I mean a lot in the sense of people that are as faithful at this show as I am and a growing number of them are disgusted by promo, the mediaville review and the overall summary of the episode in wich everyone wants Lana to be happy, how to make her happy is the point in wich they don't seem to agree. Me I will watch it since I'm overseas but if what I fear they are going to make Chloe to betray Clark them I'm done with this show. I might lurk once in a while to see how many of you had keep sane and brag about how UB is better...Yeah I'm cruel like that.

I don't know whether to laugh or not, 3 sites known for hating Lana Lang, not to mention the Chlois theory, got anything else?



I don't know how many times i've seen that same phrase, yet those same people still remain, and after awhile you see them pop up on another SV message board.

Is the first time I said that don't generalize...If I say that if Chloe betrays Clark and done it means that I'm done I'm a woman of words

You asked for folks beyond TwoP, SasukeUchiha, where Smallville fans were talking about skipping Promise and I gave them you you. I could certianly add all the folks I know in RL who decided Ugly Betty, The Office or college basketball would be a better investment of an hour of valuable free time. Changing the subject does not change the validity of my position - long-time fans are getting pissed at the Clana hamster wheel, and are leaving. And no, it is not just the Chloisers - it is everyone who does not love Lana/Clana.

Sadly, unless any of those folks are Neilson fans, it won't make a difference. (I will be very interested to see the sales numbers for the season six DVD, compared to earlier seasons, in a few months.) Now, Smallville does have some competition tonight - a new UB, an hour of The Office, NCAA playoffs and a new Fox game show that makes people looks stupid. As I said before, the ratings will probably hit 5 million with all the promotions, but it won't beat Justice. I also predict any ratings boost will not carry on to Combat, which seems to feature no Clana.You only need to see it once before Smallville looses yet another viewer. Hell, if I wasn't able to watch UB online, I would already be gone.

Here's my worthless prediction. Promise will not hit 5 million despite any promotion they've done. A good portion of the young male demographic is not going to be terribly hyped about watching an episode centered around Lex and Lana's wedding and how crappy it makes Clark feel. They might as well slip a copy of Steel Magnolias into the VCR. I think (and hope) the NCAA will take a sizable chunk out of this weeks audience. And if there are any "Basketball widows" flipping around for something to watch I think they'll be just as likely land on UB as SV.

Yes, I think basketball is going to take a chunk out the ratings. That usually happens. Also game shows tend to do well.

jwm, your worthless prediction is my worthless prediction. ITA.

Actually you didn't give me much, how many would those folks be? Count them, give me numbers, something.

Whether those folks are Neilson fans or not, either way it wouldn't make any difference, some few online fans talking about skipping Promise aren't going to make any difference in ratings, now or ever.

All i'm seeing are assumptions and generalizations, and fortunately, message boards like these aren't representative of the whole SV fanbase and/or offline fans.

And nobody ever said that they did.

It was simply stated that many viewers were going to skip Promise. And it's true. People can choose not to tune into the Clana bullshit.

A lot of people already left over the years and I think that Heroes has stolen a lot of SV's thunder.

I don't think Clana=ratings, either. And I don't think Clexana is going to create a huge spike upwards in ratings either. And if you do insist that Lana is the main attraction and that's why people watch then I'm going to say this series is a failure anyway since it's not supposed to be about her and using pretty gals in cosplay is a pretty crappy crutch for what is supposed to be a Superman show. Besides . . . I think quite a few people watch it because it's BAD ala MST3K, which even though they count as ratings I don't think Goughlar should have a lick o' pride if that's why some people watch it.

The best refutation of the idea that Clana is going to be a huge ratings draw is "Justice." It was the highest-rated episode this season, and Lana wasn't in it at all. This doesn't prove that everyone will turn off the TV for Clana, but it does indicate that more people are interested in mythos and DC-related episodes than Clana. This is why so many of us are baffled by the strange decision on the part of TPTB to suddenly and awkwardly resurrect Clana, after half a season when Clark and Lana rarely even had a scene together. At this point, Clana doesn't fit into the story, and the ratings don't give any sort of hint that it will be terribly popular.

Tonight will be the ultimate test if Clana does in fact bring in ratings.

I think what RepairmanBob meant when he referred to Nielsen "fans" is rather people who belong to the Nielsen panels. Basically, it doesn't really matter if "a lot of people" are going to watch tonight, or skip tonight, from a ratings perspective. It only matters if the Nielsen panel subscribers watch or skip. And out of the over 100 million television watching households in the US - the Nielsen panel makes up a very small and strange sample.

<sigh> I can't even believe I work in this business - it's such a worthless piece of poop.

Unless I'm mistaken at how these things work...even if you're an online fan you're still part of the regular populace and represent several hundred opinions with regards to the regular populace.

In other words, if you are seeing online "many" fans (and we are, despite the fact that we haven't counted every single one of them) who are not happy with Clana and state that they are skipping Promise, then you CAN rest assured that they ARE representing some number of off-line fan's feelings as well.

Downside is that "many" (nope, don't have numbers for you on that one either) off-line fans don't get spoilers and wouldn't know of the crapfest they are about to watch.

There's tactful ways to ask for proof. Brushing people off as if they're little peons simply because you don't agree isn't the top of that list. It just gets everyone on the defense.

Personally, I'm tuning in because its about supporting the actors for me. At this point at least. Well technically I haven't' really ever tuned in to Smallville during the time it airs, but I'm not a Nielsen member nor own a DVR so it doesn't matter. Coincidentally, I believe they are including some DVR results too.

Also, it's not only ratings that bring in the $$$, it's also merchandise and DVD sales. And frankly, I think a lot of people who were going to get S6 DVDs are losing interest in doing so, even the guys with OCD who are series completists. And frankly if they're doing so hot, why did CW pass on Aqualad? I think they know that enough people won't be coming back for another round of Goughlar bullcrap where the hot girl is continually serenaded by the background music and Aqualad mopes cause he can't tell her that he needs H20 on a regular basis and a high likelihood that Aqualad's female friend will be pissed on ad infinitum for no reason than to add angst.

I'm completely serious when I say that I will never touch Mercy Reef or any of Goughlar's future projects, won't be touching any of KK's future projects, and won't be watching this episode. I used to buy SV calendars but I sure as hell don't anymore and I actually looked at the SV comics but found them to be a lot worse than the Heroes online comics.

Unfortunately you're right. A lot of people threaten to stop watching but end up watching anyway. And I fear that as long as AlMiles will get their usual 5 million viewers, they will continue to not care about negative fan reactions and will continue to do whatever they want with their show be it Clana, Lexana or Lanaville.

I think part of the reason is that filming a show underwater proved to be too costly. I could be wrong though.

True. I've threatened to quit watching before. But all those "I'm gonna quits" all eventually hit a critical mass when the person really realizes s/he has to quit watching because the show's gotten so impossibly horrible. I've personally hit that point. I have absolutely no intention of watching the rest of the season, except maybe "Progeny." Given the spoilers, I suspect a lot of other viewers may have hit that point, too. But only the ratings will tell us if there is a significant negative response or not.

A whole lot of people have left over the years and many were hardcore fans but hit the wall. Hope used to do reviews on K-site but washed her hands of it. I know some of the former posters have switched to SGA, SPN, Heroes, etc.

People can do and eventually hit the wall or only cherrypick and vet and tape the episode. They basically only see selected episodes because they know the prior episodes really have NO bearing on what happens next unlike Heroes. I know so many people who say "I tape and FF through most of the Lana scenes because it's the same blitering nonsense" thus cheating the advertisers of the eyeballs they were promised.

I feel exactly the same way. I've had my fill of AlMiles, KK, inconsistencies, retcons, lightswitches and character assassination.

I do think Aqualad was expensive to make but I just find it amusing that they bothered to make the pilot and people started snarking on all the BAD parallels. Hot female lead with mad fighting fu, check! Mopey superhero check! MOTW, check! Female friend of superhero who will probably in the future be treated like crap, check! Love triangle including the hot female lead, evil boyfriend and superhero, check! Man, it was like SV on a beach. I think CW knew that after the intial interest, ratings were going to plummet fast since Aquaman has a lot less iconic pull than Superman and I really think some people just watch SV because of the name brand, not the quality of said product. Do the same series with a lesser superhero is a no go.

First of all, Me too.

Secondly, I'm one of these people that's debating whether or not to watch tonight. I don't have a Nielsen box so it doesn't matter if I do or not. I won't be counted in the ratings. But what will probably happen is I'll channel surf. If it's a Lana-centric episode, then I usually get bored and surf, watching maybe a third of the show. I tape the show every week and if it's good and I like that particular episode then I'll keep it to rewatch during the summer. This year I've taped over about 4 or 5 episodes already. (Reunion, Static, Subterranean and that Lana stalker one, just to name a few) Anyway, I know I'll turn it on but watching it from beginning to end, without changing channels? I don't think so.

What series doesn't lose some of it's viewers after 6 years? Most don't even make it to a 6th/7th year, SV did, and that earns Al/Miles nothing but respect from the people who count.



Yes, and SV makes a ton of money on DVD, there's a reason why it was the 1st TV show to be released in HD-DVD.

In case you didn't know, Mercy Reef was well received by critics and fans in general, it generated a lot of buzz, and was #1 on iTunes for several weeks.

I wouldn't say it was THAT well-received by the critics (remembers critics being OK but not enthusiastic while a few were downright negative). And it's not being produced (shrug) while the Pussycat Dolls show and a few others are being green-lighted.

I don't see Goughlar being the next Jerry Bruckheimer anytime soon. And I'd give more credit to the fact that it's on CW and Superman than their inherent talents. I doubt they'd last long on NBC or CBS. After all 7th Heaven is lasting a long time and it's not exactly Shakespeare. Goughlar got the "lucky" card.

And the character you're named after wouldn't have tolerated Lana's crap. Just please, Sasuke would probably blow his top at her.

Let's do a little competition roundup, shall we? :D

SMALLVILLE 4.76 million viewers
GILMORE GIRLS 4.47 million viewers
AMERICA'S NEXT TOP MODEL 4.46 million viewers
FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN 4.34 million viewers
PUSSYCAT DOLLS PRESENTS 3.93 million viewers
7TH HEAVEN 3.57 million viewers
SUPERNATURAL 3.03 million viewers
ONE TREE HILL 2.89 million viewers
VERONICA MARS 2.66 million viewers

Hooray! Smallville is now The CW's number one show, scripted or unscripted. Those are the ratings for Freak, by the way. The ratings for the other shows are from their last new respective episodes, since quite a few of them are on hiatus. Veronica Mars is on an 8 (eight) week hiatus. :\

The CW has been running a commercial for Pussycat Dolls Presents that says the show has been pulling in over 10 million viewers. I'm pretty sure they pulled that lie out of their ass, because no show on The CW is raking in those kinds of numbers.

Variety reports that Gilmore Girls (contract disputes), Veronica Mars (failure to improve), and 7th Heaven (it's way overdue) are all potential candidates for cancellation. The cancellation of the latter is almost guaranteed. Again. I'd be happy to see One Tree Hill go.

I'm glad to see that America's Next Top Model isn't breaking 5 million viewers a week any more, because from what I've seen of this season, it really, really sucks.

This week, Promise faces some new competition.

ABC
UGLY BETTY 13.66 million viewers

CBS
NCAA BASKETBALL

NBC
THE OFFICE (repeat)

FOX
ARE YOU SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER? 20.66 million viewers

Ugly Betty is the same threat it's been all season, NCAA Basketball is on for a few weeks instead of Survivor: Fiji, a one hour repeat of The Office is on NBC, and FOX's new powerhouse game show Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader? is now in Smallville's time slot.

Note: Those Ugly Betty ratings are from it's last new episode (February 15) and 5th Grader's ratings are from last week.

Now, I'm not sure how 5th Grader's ratings will fare now that it doesn't have American Idol as it's lead in, but the name alone and viewers from previous weeks are definitely factors to consider. FOX was smart to give it a good launching point audience by letting it ride on AI's wave of success.

I'm on the fence. If Promise does well, then good for Smallville! But... then the Goughlar will think that this is what we've been craving. And this is not what I'm craving. I want it to do well because it's my show, but I also want it to do bad so it'll send a message to TPTB.

Taking into account that NBC has a repeat on and that it's a wedding episode, Promise might do pretty well. Because let's face it, even the crappiest of shows get a ratings boost from a wedding episode. Ratings for repeats of The Office vary by a wide margin for some reason, going from 6.52 million viewers two weeks ago to 4.67 million viewers last week.

Do I have to answer that???, I hope I am smarter than a 5th grader by skipping this epsiode

Basketball and Fox's new show will probably strip most of the male contingent who would watch this show so it should hit them pretty hard in that demographic. I just don't think too many guys will care about a Lexana wedding and emo-Clark.