I feel the same way. I'd probably watch a spin-off if it was done that way. But on Smallville? Nope.

I know that some of the competition for SV is tougher this year, but in some ways, having similar-demographic shows like Alias and The O.C. was just as bad last year.

I also get the vibe - especially from radio promos and the inclusion of JH even in a trailer for an episode he's not even in - that The CW wants us to think of Ollie as a recurring character on SV, much like Angel was on Buffy. If they REALLY wanted us to think he was intended to be a longterm character and not spin-off fodder, though, they could have at least given him a slot in the opening credits.

And about ANTM's ratings - I suspect this is part of "the plan." Really what we got is UPN Takes Over The WB. And we unfortunately got their crappy promo people. ANTM was doing well enough with UPN, now that it has a new audience, it's doing even better.

Surprised Veronica Mars didn't do better on The CW but maybe people who don't regularly watch just don't get it...

ETA: If TPTB do a Green Arrow spin-off, my money WOULD be on Lois going over on to this new show. I know some people would love to see Chloe continue beyond SV, but Allison's been doing this for seven years and she might not want to play the same character for another year. Erica will be in Year Four of playing Lois next season, so, she might be more feasible. And I do think Erica and Justin have chemistry... more than Tom and Erica, at least.

And I would so totally love that. I'm obviously not an EDLois fan, and am highly biased, but I was struck by how cute she and Ollie were at the end of "Rage." I was thinking, "Those two belong together!" and that wasn't only because I really don't want her to wind up with Clark. The chemistry is definitely there, in a way it somehow doesn't seem to be between ED and TW, IMHO.

So long as her throws her through a table every week, it works for me.

Hee. I'd watch that :)

Would DC allow Lois Lane to become a long term fixture and continued love interest in Green Arrow's life though? Having them date for a few episodes on Smallville is one thing, but shipping her off to Star City?

Anyway, wouldn't a Hard Treveling Heroes series with Green Arrow, Green Lantern and maybe even Black Canary be so much more fun?

ETA: Maybe The CW likes Green Arrow so much because of all the green. He's like their Michigan J. Frog.

From a "draw new viewers" PoV, ED brings more to the table than AM.

- Lois Lane is a more recognized name than Chloe Sullivan to non-viewers. I can guarentee the WC will be able to pimp the shit out of GA and LL.
- As Craig mentioned, AM may be getting burned out playing Chloe.
- ED is willing to show skin, AM is not. Boobies = ratings!
- Lollie has been pushed hard, and spinning Lois off will allow them to continue that. It also allows Lois to continue hunting for the GA.
- With Lois as a lead, the Lightswitch Development can slow down or stop, and more time can be spent on her realistic development into ILL.
- Did I mention boobies?

Of course, as a Chloe fan, I will happily accept anything that gets Lois far away from Clark.

From that florist line they could easily do a 'mini-reboot' and make her Dinah Lance. I'm not a guy but when I floated the idea to my elder brother and younger brother (both pretty much at the opposite ends of the target demo (30 and 16 respectively)) they both thought that ED in a leotard, leather jacket, boots, and fishnets would be something worth watching - especially if she kicked butt in said outfit. As EB pointed out, it would be an easy way to recycle some of their stuff from BoP (which they've already done with the Ollie set) and spin off the two characters that not only feel like they are on a different show but actually have chemistry together.



Honestly, a GA/GL/BC show I think would be the way to go. Lot of green, lot of tea ups, and then we could see the JLA on SV from time to time, and the JSA on the other.

If AM is burned out playing Chloe she does a really good job of hiding it. She might not exactly jump at at GA spin off but I think it'd be hard to turn down a true lead spot on a spin off show even if it ment the possibility of playing the same character for another 5 years. Hell, she could be the Kelsey Grammer of super hero dramas.

If AM dresses up like BC every week, I'll watch a GA spin-off. Hell, I'll go find a Neilson family, and make them watch it.

I guess it's possible if they can get it for a cheaper budget? I think it was the underwater filming costs that doomed Aquaman?

Well of course they spiked up!!!! They had James Marsters on the show..

All right, take the Justin Hartley rulz/sucks talk to the Justin Hartley thread. This has gotten crazy-off-topic.

I moved some posts from here to the newly created thread to get the discussion going over there.

Fast Nationals for Static from MediaWeek


Has it improved? I didn't check last week's ratings, but Smallville still keeps going strong. Green Arrow or not, heavily promoting Lexana and Clark and the mythos.

Yes last weeks was 3.5/5...So it went up..

The fast nationals from pifeedback.com.



As reported by Berman at pifeedback.com

Fallout
Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.5/ 5; Viewers: #4, 4.93 million; A18-49: #4, 2.1/ 5)
Last Week/Rage
Smallville (Overnights: #?, 3.5/5; Viewers #5, 4.47 million; A18-49: #4, 1.9/ 5)
This Week/Static
Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.6/6; Viewers: #4, 4.76 million; 18-49: #4, 2.0/5)

well at least was better than ANTM

Moved all the scheduling messages to the scheduling thread. Scheduling/ratings stuff doesn't have to go in the Media thread unless you're talking about a specific article, but if the article is related to scheduling or ratings, I'd still put it here first.

Bumping for questions on when the next episodes air.

Fast Nationals for Subterrenean. From mediaweek.com


I guess the two weeks break and a really bad episode combined did no good to Smallville's ratings. Now we'll have to wait and see if the patterns keep happening, and ratings start going down after November sweeps and Christmas break as it happened the years before.

Yeah I was just about to post that....Ouch!!!! I figured it would be lower since a lot of people didn't know it was even a new episode last night. I had to tell my dad that it was new. The real test will be when it comes back. They are going to have to advertise the shit out of it. Hopefully the positive buzz from the trailer will get around. But if they continue at the 3.3/5 level then this show wont' make it to another season. They have to get back to around 4/6 and fast, after they get back from hiatus.

I can't say I'm suprised, they did no advertising for this episode. No stills, no ads, not directors cut. I'm sure a lot of people didn't even know it was new. Conversely, they did advertising for the episode last year.

From the reviews, I think they probably wanted as few people to see it as possible.

But hasn't that been true of nearly every single episode this year?

And BadToad is right. Lexmas was advertized for a month, heavilly, as an 'event' episode. Smallville finished 4th to - what was on last night? I know there was extended Earl; what beyond that?

And how is this weeks in a line up of this season? Is it the lowest or is it comperable? Lexmas last year also took a dip (depsite the adverts) and was the lowest of the season by this time last year as well if I remember correctly.

I was thinking the same thing. How is SV doing compared to the other CW shows? Doesn't that factor into whether it will get picked up for a seventh season?

And if thats true, then they are idiotic, since this episode was certainly not worse then "Static". And from the general consensus I'm seeing around the boards, reactions seem most to be "not great, but not awful". With "Static", I saw a far more angry and vehement reaction.

I just remember hearing that this was re-tooled so I wonder if the original draft was a lot worse. ?_?

I don't think it's just ratings but how much it costs to make (unfortunately with this show, cutting corners special effects-wise really shows).

Can we really blame them for not promoting Subterranean? They moved the episode around, which in itself already screams "ridiculously bad episode and we are ashamed of it", Craig said the same about it since the beginning, so I'm not surprised about the low ratings at all. It was bad and if it wasn't for Lex's rocking my socks off in the last scene and 33.1 showing on that door, I'm sure the show would do really nice without this episode.

Thus, comparing it to Lexmas is just not fair, not only because it was highly promoted but also because it was a very nice and fun episode to watch, what can't be said about last night's.

But I honestly don't think Smallville won't be getting renewed for a 7th season. Even if the ratings keep around 3.3/5 or a little bit lower (3.0 million of viewers), it's safe to say they'll be coming back for next fall. The CW is a new network and they depend on their old shows to be kept on the air.

Well, of course people liked this episode better than "Static." Lex and Clark looked hot and the Chloevage made a triumphant return. Clearly, "Subterranean" was not unlike Justin Timberlake in that it brought sexy back, and we all know that it is impossible to hate JT.

I'm not surprised by the ratings. I was unsure whether it was a new episode this week or next week until I saw that Omar had put the thread up yesterday.

From zap2it.com. Ratings were even lower.

Katie, zap2it's ratings numbers are always lower. Usually by at least 6 to 8 points. Sometimes as high as 10 points from media week.

Not to get into a big debate about this, but that is purely your opinion. Thanks, I'll take last nights episode over "Lexmas" any day of the week and twice on sundays. I had fun watching last nights episode, and "Lexmas" just aggravated the crap out of me with its all about Lana theme.

So really, I have no problem comparing the eps. "Bad" is a relative, and highly subjective opinion in the SV fandom.

Thanks Katie, and at the risk of being annoying - what was on last night that CBS got a 5.9? I know Earl on NBC but other than that I don't know what's ont he other networks at all.

To each their own, BadToad. Likings are very subjective, especially when concerning TV shows, but they can be translate into some things, like ratings. So, while Lexmas, an episode you despise so much, did very well last year, the same can't be said about Subterranean. Hopefully you TiVo'd it so you can watch it twice on Sundays, since I highly doubt we'll see it rerunning any time soon.

But as you said yourself, no need to get into a big debate about opinions.

Now, back on topic, from the futoncritic.com



Chiriru, CBS had Survivor, CSI and Shark on.

Good idea, but I didn't think I was the one that was definitely announcing what the standard was based on my own personal opinion, was I? And I do have taped, but thanks for the concern :)

In any case, the fact remains that last year, there was advertising for the episode in this slot...this year, there wasn't. Last year, the overall ratings were better for SV...this year they're down for every episode. And of course, there's the always popular theory that the episode ratings are based on the last episode that ran...and that was "Static". I just don't think the ratings should come as a shock given all the factors involved, though I'm think content and quality of the episode probably had very little to do with it.

Word to that! And I have to say I'm excited that the episode likely to score the highest ratings this season "Justice", doesn't feature Lana at all!

I subscribe to this theory, because "Memoria" had very low ratings and I find it hard to believe people thought that episode sucked.

As reported by Berman at pifeedback.com

Fallout
Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.5/ 5; Viewers: #4, 4.93 million; A18-49: #4, 2.1/ 5)
Rage
Smallville (Overnights: #?, 3.5/5; Viewers #5, 4.47 million; A18-49: #4, 1.9/ 5)
Static
Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.6/6; Viewers: #4, 4.76 million; 18-49: #4, 2.0/5)

You mean the repeat? Because that was the last episode that ran and a lot of shows are in the doldrums of repeats this time of year, so it may have been that people thought this week was going to be a repeat as well.

Or it could just have been that this was a really crappy episode and people didn't stick around to watch the whole dreadful thing.

*raises hand* Me! I had no idea that it was a new episode tonight. What was all that talk about a three week hiatus? Am I just not good with reading?

I don't know if you guys are interested, but because I have really detailed (accurate) numbers for the market I work in, I thought I would share. Ratings are calculated every 15 minutes. So a 1 hour show has 4 differently rated segments. (This is usually to see whose newscast is being turned off halfway through, or whether viewers are flipping to another channel for the second half to see a different weatherman, etc.)

Anyway, it's a screen capture of the PDFs they put up on our work intranet. Incriminating evidence whited out. The first number in the right column is the Rating, the next is the Share. CBS clearly kicks the shit out of everything on a CSI night.

Wait, so I'm confused now.

I'm aware that SV as a whole isn't what it was last year which is why the Lexmas comparison rings false to me (not to mention the advertizing angle there). But was Subterranian actually pretty close inline with everything else this year then?

While the ratings for SV are down compared to last year, the show is still near the top of the overall ratings for the CW - so it's in no danger of going away as long as the cast and producers want to keep doing it.

Veronica Mars (my favorite show), SN and OTH are much closer to the edge of the cliff.

I think the lower ratings for this week's ep had much more to do with last week's show being a repeat and people just assuming the holiday repeat cycle had started.

Booberella - Thanks for sharing the cap/info. Seems to me like some small portion of SV's audience in your area, started off with SV (saw what the ep was about) then flipped over to MNiE to see the end of that episode. Then flipped back to SV to see what was going on and then flipped back to MNiE to see the end of the second episode. The rise and fall of Sv's audience .2 or .3 points in the 2nd and 4th quarters corresponds to an increase in MNiE's audience at the time.

Gosh, booberella, thank you for sharing this with us. All these ratings/numbers confuse me, *g*, but fortunately, this thread helps me sort it out. It's totally interesting, to see the movement over an hour's viewing. I usually can't watch SV in real-time, but whenever I watch anything live, I flip around and sometimes ... I forgot to flip back!, especially if I'm taping. LOL. Massena, your breakdown of SV and MNiE, I ran to see the numbers, how it all matched up and I see it. Cool. That's what stood out to me as well, the way SV lost the .2 or so as the timeslot went on. Bummer, because it's like, some of the audience must've missed the preview! Eee. Thanks again, B. :)

Also, thank you, Katie and Massena, for the national numbers. I still am confused, LOL, but I think a lot of it had to do with fans not knowing a new eppy was here. But w/ how they chose to reshuffle "Subterranean", maybe the lower numbers are OK because it was in line with what they were expecting? Especially, with the lack of promotion. Unlike, as was mentioned, for "Lexmas". So maybe 6.9 was just like let's air it, but it's not like its showing, whatever it was, was going to negatively impact SV's success so far this season. Yes? I'm hoping, *g*.

As for "Lexmas", I'm running away now.

Thank you. That is very interesting. While SV viewers are switching back and forth, more CSI and OC viewers are tuning in during the show.

A lot of times on Thursdays, I've noticed that the shows at 8 pm start off lower and then increase as they get closer to 9 pm. I think that's generally as people are getting home or turning on the tv after doing other things (eating dinner, driving home etc.) So they often end up with a bigger audience the closer they get to 9 p.m. It is interesting to see that SV had a good audience size from the get go but enabled people to flip around during the hour.

booberella - I want to third the thanks. I don't really understand it all, but thanks all the same.



Actually given the numbers that Massena posted, given the complete lack of promotion (there wasn't even a Director's clip on the CW), and the time delay, I think it did rather well. IT seems to look right in line with Rage which is kind of telling, I think; I mean this episode had absolutely nothing going for it and it's still treading water with Lollieville? I think that's telling, anyway.

Do we have final numbers yet? I'm curious to see how well it did since it was buried under two weeks of repeats. No pun intended.

Rage was crap for me, sure. But not so much ''Lollieville'' but more the godawful baby plot. *shudders*

And other eps like 'Arrow' and Reunion' with more Lois and Ollie have done better than 'Subterranean.'

I think an episode in entirety has to be decent, a solid hour. But even that doesnt always determine ratings. As a Lex fan for eg. I hate the fact that normally Lex centric episodes in the past havent fared so well ratings wise. This season ratings have been pretty even keel, with 'Zod' and 'Fallout' the highest. The rest are thereabouts though, on an even keel I think, moreorless.

I've passionately hated 'Rage' and 'Static' this season. My reason was Lexana. For others it might be GreenArrowville. Or whatever. I've really disliked 'Wither' and 'Subterranean' too, personally because I thought they both were really weak, boring episodes.

I wish ratings reflected accurately the quality of an episode, but I dont think they do.

I still think ratings wise Smallville is doing a decent job this season and CW would be fools not to renew it.

Has 'Subterranean' been the lowest rated ep so far? If it has, I think it should share that dubious honour with 'Wither', 'Rage', and 'Static.'

It's the highest I've ever seen for Arrow; last I saw it was firmly in the 4.5 range.