For all the talk of how badly SV is doing, it seems to be the top-rated show on the CW, so in a way it's doing just as well as it did back in the early days :D

Smallville ratings are like a lot of prescription drug commercials I see on television. They announce in a loud strong voice all the good things that they do and at the end of the commercial the announcer whispers in bullet like speed all the nasty little side effects. I heard the WB and now the CW spin each years declining ratings into some kind of victory. The truth is the show that was once a ratings phenomenon has spent most of the last three years trying to claim a ratings victory out of a constantly diminishing audience. Smallvilles a dying show on what appears be a dying network. To be the highest rated show on the CW isn’t claiming much now a days. If this network’s ratings do go up it will probably be based on a new show that will brand them the way the Simpsons once branded Fox and the way Buffy and Smallville once branded the WB.

mlewis, Smallville's ratings may not be that impressive now compared to what they once were, but as of now? On a new network? It's definitely a great thing to be the top rated show on any network, especially a new network.

Well, I could claim to be the highest rated show on PAX but it doesn't mean that I'm doing that well. Quite a few people seem to be watching because 1) they're MST3King the hell out of it, 2) they're completists who say they're watching to the "bitter end", 3)habit, 4)they only like one character on the show.

Honestly if Goughlar try to do another superhero show . . . I think the people who are doing 1,2,3 and/or 4 will not show up to go another round with them.

Thank you for the numbers. I'm very happy SV is doing well too, and while I don't understand everything about ratings, I think its consistent performance definitely gives the CW something to be proud of. For one, they made the right decision in placing SV upfront. Yay. Hopefully the ratings will stay consistent, and start to gain even. Maybe not newbies, since I know it's difficult for a show after five seasons to attract new viewers, but that difference in total viewers from last year, this time. I hope they come back.

Maybe by the time of "Justice". :)

I also hope we get the Director's Cut for "Rage" soon. I was just there and it's like SV is the only one missing now. We always get one, right?

Interesting reading: CW Feels Some Growing Pains

Yeah a couple of articles have written about this...Not only has the CW lost these viewers but the other networks haven't picked them up...They just up and vanished.

Maybe Lex will find them when he enters Staticland.

Here's a link to final ratings for 11/2. I saw the link posted on K-Site, so I can't vouch of how authentic is it, thought it looks authentic.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=186870

And if this is true, and "Fallout" is the first episode of S6 that got over 5 million viewers.

Actually I think that "Zod" got 5.05 mill

Last I saw on "Zod", it was 4.96.

ETA: If "Zod' was over 5, then this would be the first episode since then to hit 5mil. OK?

Also at 8 p.m. was the season-premiere of the CW’s Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.8/ 6; Viewers: #5, 5.04 million; A18-49: #5, 2.2/ 6)

This was acording to mediaweek..

From this week's Entertainment Weekly:

"Free to Be . . . Overlooked. Six weeks old and the CW isn't growing into the big bouncing network that was promised." (By Lynette Rice).

According to the article, the CW is only pulling in half of what the WB and UPN did each on their own. The network's top show is America's Next Top Model, followed by Smallville, with 4.9 million viewers. No mention of Supernatural, which I thought was doing very well.
Audience tune-ins are way down for both Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven, (which should have died eons ago, IMO).

Is the network floundering, or are these numbers meaningless in light of the fact that the netowrk is only a month old, and it may just be too soon to tell?

There's a picture of Tom with the article, but he's got on the Members Only Jacket of Doom. I'm starting to think it got permanently molded to his body when he fell out of the phantom zone.

Yes and Yes..But I don't think anyone is really all that surprised..Although losing the male demo numbers has been very surprising since no show has picked them up....Almost every show on the other networks has either lost young male viewers or has stayed the same...Smallville seems to be gaining some viewers back now that the playoffs are over for Baseball...The premiere was before the playoffs and every single episode until FALLOUT was during the baseball playoffs. It's not a coincidence that both of those episodes got over 5 million viewers. But that is still about 500,000 off of their avg last year...Some episodes had more than 6million but most were in the mid fives.

Here is an article on how the CW may be in a make good situation. Smallville is mentioned because its ratings are down 22% from last year.

To explain a bit, ratings only matter to the extent that they affect how much a network can charge for 30 second ads during the show. Networks' main source of income is ad sales and most of these ads are bought by a select group of big media buyers. These are the people who analyse ratings and decide if the show is worth it.

As part of the ad sales contract, the networks guarantee a media buyer that a minimum number of people will see their ads if they buy from them. The Network people have to decide how big an audience they can guarantee, bc the bigger the base (minimum audience) the bigger the ad price. However, there is a penalty called a "make good" where if the ad purchased *isn't* seen by that minimum audience for that show, then the network has to refund money to the media buyer. This is considered extremely embarassing for a network bc they are failing to deliver on a contract. According to the article below, big media buyers are now thinking that the CW overprojected their ratings guarantees when they sold the ads and they won't be able to provide the audience size they promised which will kick in the penalty of paying back some of the ad money they've already received from the media buyers.

http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/2006/11/0...good-situation/

Those were preliminary numbers.

The final number was 4.96 million. (ABC Medianet)

From Marc Berman at pifeed.com:

So every week, it's down a tiny bit. Right?

Well, going off Berman's numbers, in week-to-week, SV lost approx.500,000 viewers and 200,000 viewers in 18-49. But, someone said the numbers have been changing when the finals come in, so I don't know if this will change when finals come in.

Last Week:
Smallville (Overnights: #4, 3.5/ 5; Viewers: #4, 4.93 million; A18-49: #4, 2.1/ 5)

This Week:
Smallville (Overnights: #?, 3.5/5; Viewers #5, 4.47 million; A18-49: #4, 1.9/ 5)

No, it was up last week. But it took a downward turn again this week. That GreenArrowVille is keeping them glued to their seats.

Yes, it looks to me that the obvious lack of Clark, GreenArrowVille and that horrible Lexana are clearly having an effect on the ratings.

So far

ANTM 5.39 million
Smallville 4.47 million
Gilmore Girls 4.35 million
7th Heaven 3.82 million
OTH 3.52 million
Everybody Hates Chris 3.50 million
Supernatural 3.17 million
All of Us 3.05 million
Girlfriends 2.95 million
The Game 2.87 million
Veronica Mars 2.62 million

ouchhh Veronica Mars

Am I allowed to gloat on this thread? No? Well, I'll just say I hope this big downturn (after a highly-rated Clarkcentric episode) convinces the CW that GreenArrowville isn't pulling in the viewers. Please, please, guys, return us to our regularly scheduled programming. Bring back the Clark promos and the Clark episodes.

I'm not so sure it's GreenArrowville. And I'm not saying this to defend the character, because ever since 'Reunion', I'm not liking Ollie. At all. But I've been noticing a trend, atleast since 'Wither'. Just a theory of mine.

'Wither' was a crappy episode. The ep that followed, 'Arrow', therefore, dipped in ratings even though it was a good, solid ep. But because it was a good ep on the whole, the ratings for 'Reunion' slightly improved. 'Reunion' being another good episode, the ratings again improved for 'Fallout'. 'Fallout', however (strictly in my opinion here) - not the most enjoyable ep (the Clark bits notwithstanding), on par with 'Wither' again with the trite FOTW formula. Hence ratings for 'Rage' dipped yet again.

I dont know, it's just a theory, but how much clout does the predecessing ep have on the ep that follows it? As in does the quality of a predecessing episode determine the ratings somewhat for the following episode? If an ep is good, it'll maintain at the very least, even increase viewership for the following ep. But if it's a crappy one, then it ends up disinteresting certain viewers and it's a dip in ratings all over again. *shrugs* No-one ever said the viewing audience wasn't a fickle one.

ETA: On another note though, I'd like to blame it a lot on Lexana actually. It's a just a giant, sucking drain on this show. IMO.

In conclusion? Ratings confuse me.

The pattern I noticed (although I admit to maybe being baised lol) was that Arrow was only promoted with GA and EDLois, and didn't do so great. Reunion was promoted with the GA again, but also looking at Lex's past, so it did decently. Fallout was promoted as Clark-centric, and did the best since Zod. And now Rage has dropped in ratings badly, after promotion focused on the GA again.

I think it's people being more interested in Clark and Lex, then in the guest stars.

From http://www.zap2it.com

Ooh, that burns.

Smallville got beat by 'Til Death. That's horrible. Maybe now they'll learn their lesson about letting their guest stars over stay their welcome.

I like the GA storyline, but I agree that having it almost every single week is sort of a mis-fire. I realize that Justin Hartley has stuff scheduled next year and can't do the show, but it would've been nice to spread his appearances out over the whole season, instead of blowing their wad right now.

And I will never understand why they keep on insisting on what they know, are very unpopular and controversial storylines (Lexana baby, for example), despite the slow but sure decline in ratings. They always choose to do everything the fans hate. I'm not saying that they should do whatever the fans ask but, at the same time, they're the only show creators who NEVER listen to the fans. Why? I have no idea.

Clana fans are furious, Clexers are bitter bitter bitter, Chlarkers are starting to loose patience etc... So I guess this slow decline was expected and must be starting to worry The CW, despite Smallville still being one of the top shows on the network.

Wow. Just... wow. That's horrible.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of things people can blame for the drop (GreenArrowVille, pissing off every shipper group over the past two weeks, stronger competition this year), but damn. That show sucks by Fox standards.

How long until the network starts making suggestions? A few highlights, if you will, When Clueless Network Executives Run Wild...

Season Two: Lana becomes the new Joey Potter. Chloe turns into a passive aggressive, bitter bitch to make Lana look better
Season Four: The Season of KK's body doubles. Naked Time. Ageless.

Any guesses on what's coming next?

I'd also like to know the breakdown of which age groups were watching. (The CW especially wants male viewers aged 18 - 34, right? My boyfriend is in that category and as soon as Lana fainted, he left the room and would not be drawn back by my pleas that Lex and Ollie were having a cool fight and he should come see.)

The pregnancy arc is an absolutely dire choice to try and attract a young male audience. Doesn't bode well for DVD sales either.

I'm not normally a poster here, but I see you are all discussing the Zap2it ratings, whereas Mediaweek has a completely different set of figures, so I thought I'd share those with you all.

I don't really think fan displeasure necessarily means low ratings. Some of the show's best episodes - Insurgence as an example that comes to mind - rated poorly. I think it's more, like others said, what it happens to follow.

"Shattered" followed "Magnetic," as an example.

I don't really see a drop off this year either compared to other CW shows. Gilmore and 7th have dropped as much if not more. No other show on the CW could do on Thursday at 8 what Smallville is doing. I think it's fine.

Yeah Craig, I don't get what all the doom and gloom is all about..I mean, yeah it's down, but so is the whole damn network..It's still their highest rated scripted drama, and like CRAIG just said, no other show could do what they are doing at that time(ANTM could possibly do it). This show isn't going anywhere and I would think that unless the CW just flat out folds or decides to handicap next years ratings, Smallville will go one more year...The CW have a couple of shows in development, and even though they dont' sound to good, they have more bullets to shoot next year in hoping they have something that can replace Smallville...

Without this show next year, I don't think the CW lasts past next season..

I think the CW is contracted to run with its stations for five years. Though at the rate it's going, I can't see how it's going to turn around unless they hire in some new people.

It's weird because The CW and CBS are run by the same people ultimately... yet, CBS's on-air graphics are sharp and professional... this is just... UPN microwaved.

I miss The WB and the days when every new WB series was an "event." Though, that era kind of ended around the time Smallville premiered.

But on topic: The ratings, and Green Arrow. I was talking to a friend about this on the phone tonight, and here's what I came up - beyond the speculation that Tom W. might just want some time off... first off, The CW and Almiles can't think we're that galactically stupid to think they're not planning something with Green Arrow in the future. It's pretty obvious, especially from the choices of the repeats on Sundays.

Secondly, bringing in new blood, as Al said in a recent interview I posted a link to on K-Site, IS a way to bring in new viewers and keep a show "fresh." More times then not, the "new blood" thing fails (hello, 8 Simple Rules Girl on Charmed), but sometimes, a new character will bring a show new success.

And... thinking about it... Smallville probably is the best and easiest way for The CW or Almiles to bring Green Arrow some exposure. I was saying to my friend, that it would have been cool to run a 6-episode Green Arrow mini-series during the weeks of a SV hiatus... but then I remembered something: Smallville's REPEATS are usually better, ratings-wise, than many of The CW's brand new shows (I'm looking at you, Veronica Mars and Runaway). So, instead of spending money on extra shows it kind of made sense to spotlight GA here.

I'm babbling but it's 6am... but anyway. I think there's a plan with the Green Arrow aspect of things. And as far as the ratings go, like I said, even SV repeats tend to even do well for the network, and they need all the "doing well" that they can get.

That makes sense, Craig. It still bugs me that Al & Miles are so focussed on leveraging their next show that they're willing to cut corners (budget and script-wise) on their current show. It's as though they don't care if the episodes they're producing have any shelf-life, hence the continuity gaffes and fluctauating characterizations. I like Justin Hartley - and a GA show could be good - but putting him into SV just to try and engineer a spin-off just emphasizes that A & M are fundamentally about business, rather than art.

The thing is though, to non-online people, or perhaps younger viewers, these episodes might have a longer shelf life. To some, the Green Arrow might be the coolest thing they'd seen on the show.

I know I have some friends on LJ who started watching just because of him.

Smallville has NEVER been about character continuity - inconsistent characterization has been going on for YEARS ;p I don't know why it's suddenly an issue now.

It's because of the massive JH pimping..TW fans are pissed that it seems JH has become more important than TW. Even though as a TW and Clark fan I don't believe this myself, I can see why some are so upset.

Well, since season 4..... I thought S 1- 3 (in the Verheiden/Biller/Loeb writing era) they did quite a good job at ensuring the episodes flowed into each other. Since S4, the episodes seem piecemeal; it's as though the writers are working in completely separate vaccuums & undo each other's characterizations from one episode to the next (which must make things tough for the cast.)



I like Hartley & think he's managed to elevate the character beyond what the writers have put on the page. But in terms of a ratings draw, do you think he's comparable to the following James Marsters brought? I've noticed a lot of the S5 lj folks (and posters here) melted away once it was confirmed JM wasn't returning. The rest of the characters weren't enough to hold them and with the pregnancy spoilers circulating so early (thanks to Tom!) a lot of the comics crowd seem to have defected too (to "Heroes".)

Clark's mentorship of Green Arrow (and other JL cameos) represent the direction the show should be going, IMO; the pregnancy plot is the sort of soapy mire it should side-step.

I don't believe for one second that JH's GA is bringing people onto the show in any significant numbers. The ratings are down. This isn't only being noted by upset fans on line, this is being noted in legitimate entertainment venues. I don't only blame GreenArrowVille, as I think Lexana and the focus on love triangles has had a huge negative impact. But, I think its very clear that fans are very split on this character, and his prominence on the show. I see absolutely no evidence at all that there's some concrete evidence that he's contributed to ratings, but one could make a case that he's hurt ratings given the fact that we've had 7 episodes air, and the 2 episodes that have pulled the best ratings are the 2 episodes he's not in. Do I expect "Hydro" and "Justice" to do alright? Yes, but certainly not b/c of JH pimping, or the GA. I think Tori Spelling curiousity is likely to give "Hydro" a boost, and I think the very nature of "Justice" will carry it.

And good point about JM Durq. Wasn't this guy a ratings draw? Isn't that the sort of casting that should've been pimped? Shouldn't the Brainiac character have gotten greater prominence? Instead, they squandered him to the detriment of the show. And I think JM has it all over JH in terms of talent and significant fan following.

And yes, you are damn right as a TW fan, I'm pissed. Its his damned show. He's the guy thats been doing the heavy lifting for 5 freaking years. And no, I don't believe for one second that he asked to be secondary to another character in the first few eps of S6. But I'm pissed for MR and AM too, since I think both of them have been impacted by the need to push this GA character, and the actor playing him.

Inconsistent characterization going on for years? No doubt, and no arguements. Using the show as a pimp-a-thon for JH is certainly not helping that any, so I'm not sure why one should be pleased about something that pours fuel on the fire. JMHO

I can definitely believe that. I'm sure a lot of Buffy/Angel fans only watched because of JM. I had a friend watch solely for that reason. I think they need to stick to casting known actors like JM with a huge fanbase at this point if they want a spike in ratings, to be honest. I'm just assuming that JM has more of a fanbase than JH did before appearing on SV.

I also don't believe the bringing of Jimmy Olsen really brought in that many people, either.

What you believe is irrelevant. I love how some Clark/TW fans are taking the JH pimping and the GA episodes as a personal attack on them and on the actor/character, which I'm sure that TW doesn't feel as some of his fans do.

What? You don't believe that there are Justin Hartley/Green Arrow fans out there?

The ratings are down for the whole network, SV is at the top and it will remain at the top.

Everyones opinion is just as relevant as the next. And people believing otherwise is irrelevant.

SasukeUchiha you will find that telling somebody that what they believe is irrelevant is a quick way to get yourself banned...I would suggest reading the FAQ before responding to a post like that on here.

I did, thanks wrighty. All i'm saying is, have some respect for the actors that you don't like, don't put them down and blame everything on them because of whatever reason.

I've seen enough of JH/GA hating from TW/Clark fans, and that's not fair at all.

Actually, what I'm mostly seeing is hating how prominent he's (JH/GA) has become on the show, and hating all the pimping he's getting on the back of the show. And I think thats perfectly valid. Hating JH personally? Not so much. And really, if you just think its TW fans, you aren't looking around hard enough.

But really, I hope JH gets his own show. I hope AlMiles leave SV to go write it, and leave SV in the hands of someone else (DeKnight?). God speed and good luck to you there JH. And when you've carried that show for 5 years, I'm sure fans will loyally stick by you.

Keep it chill, folks.

TV network promotion is very frequently about the New Big Thing. Tom Welling has been a WB draw for five years. They're going to have to move on and promote new things, especially when Smallville only has one year left after this one.

As for James Marsters and being a draw... I don't know about for anyone else but after the first 8 episodes of Season 5 I thought his character and placement in the series was a mess. The Brainiac storyline was confusing and it didn't help that Marsters seemed to appear for one episode, leave for three, return, etc. etc. I don't blame it on JM more than I think it was just bad planning.

I also thought they squandered a great opportunity of having him as Clark's college professor. As things stood he only had that post for what? 2-3 episodes?

I don't think any guest star, be it Marsters or Justin Hartley, really dictates the unpredictable ratings spikes or falls that any WB/CW show has. I know when Marsters guested on The Mountain no one cared, and even the second guest appearance of Christopher Reeve in "Legacy" didn't really create much of a stir. ("Rosetta" did well, but I'd say that's the exception) And hey - I loved it last year when they reunited the one-time Dukes of Hazzard in "Exposed" and despite that being a #1 show back in the 80's, ratings didn't spike up at all.

I think it's all arbitrary. But I'm pretty sure that even if the show provided everything "the fans want" - Clark-heavy episodes with no Lois and no GA, as an example - ratings would still be on the exact same levels. I guess we'll know for sure later this year, although episode #12 does have the added bonus of coming right after a Big Smallville Event.

SasukeUchiha - the site is called Television Without Pity, not Televison With Love And Kittens or Television With Joyful Respect And Kindness. We are all throwing possible reasons for the ratings drop out, and the show turning into GreenArrowVille is a legimate theory. So are
- poor writing
- lost viewers due to the WC merger
- Heroes taking comic book fans
- tougher competition on Thursday this season
- natural viewer turnover from a six year old showActually, that would be ANTM. Is Smallville doing better than anything else the WC could put in it's place? Sure, but is that any reason to ask why it cannot be better?

KSiteCraig500 - I completely understand the GA spinoff, and to be honest, I would watch it if TPTB scheduled it after Smallville. I just wish GA/JH was used better - the crazy pimping and taking over the show made a lot of folks (including myself) inclined not to like the actor and the character. Run GA like AtS to Smallville's Buffy - new city, darker tone, send over a SV regular (Chloe or Lois?), and it's bound to get better ratings than Runaway.

Then again, a clip show of Lois poledancing and Chloe in Clark's jersey shown every week would get better ratings than Runaway.