It was preempted in the Chicago market and beat House in the Demo.

The week before it tied for Third place in the demos.

It has a higher 18-49 ratings average vs. its network’s overall 18-49 average than any other show on Friday night.





I think iTunes has a part in that. We have no idea how international sales are going (I meant I couldn't find any data).

It beat house in the share of 18-49 adults, technically. House still as a rerun outdid it in total millions. The pre-emption might have mattered, might not have. It still ended up tied with Roulette, basically. Roulette had no pre-emptions, nor did Rabid, they were still very low, indicating a pattern of 2.2-2.4 for the season. Additionally, I may seem to remember, when Abyss was pre-empted in NYC for a Jets game that it didn't matter. It was still lowest rated of season eight at that point. Low ratings, IMHO, are low ratings, and it's still not a sign that it's going to increase much for sweeps and, even had it had Chicago, it would have had HALF the overall growth in ratings (5.2%) of SPN (9.1%) or VD (10.3%). As it is, with pre-emption and all else, it went down , not a good sign for sweeps. Also, VD and SPN weren't pre-empted but they went up against the world series with YANKEES in it and a record 22.5 millino viewers for Fox and still had season highs in their shares/increases. There's competition for everyone.

I can't see how it's going to do better when SV is going up in two weeks against the release of 2012 and in three weeks against New Moon adn Sherlock Holmes. Every night has its own competition and issues. On last friday, there was a game and SV came in low. In a few weeks the Thanksgiving movie season may ding it to. That's also, sadly, how ratings roll.
***

It has a higher 18-49 ratings average vs. its network’s overall 18-49 average than any other show on Friday night.

---I am unsure what that means. It's the only new run show on CW, so it's natural it leads in 18-49. However, if you mean what happened with Echo in the demo of 18-49, that was for MEN 18-49. This week it was again talking about MEN.

No, of ALL the shows on Friday night, Smallville's 18-49 demo is the highest when compared to its network's average 18-49 demo. Better than Ghost Whisperer, Ugly Betty, Dollhouse, The Jay Leno Show, Medium, Law and Order.......everything on Friday night.

Also, SV is underperforming Friday Night Smackdown big-time in the demos. (IIRC, that show brought in 1.4 A 18-34, please correct me if I'm wrong). So, if you're lookiing at total viewers or the CW's stated target demo, that still spells loser, imo.

The numbers say what they say. We can try to spin them here, but I'm confident that the CW's bean counters will know how to read them.

Oh I see with the 18-49 average now. I was genuinely confused. However, I was more thinking that even if the average pans out well, all the other shows you mentioned like GW or House or Supernanny, are getting higher shares and more viewers that night (save for House, last week, I know).

Weekly results for the Week ending Oct. 18:


Day Time Net Program Viewers* Demo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thu 8:00 CW Vampires Diaries 3.880 1.8
Wed 8:00 CW America's Next Top Model 3.000 1.4
Fri 8:00 CW Smallville 2.590 1.1
Thu 9:00 CW Supernatural 2.580 1.2
Mon 8:00 CW One Tree Hill 2.550 1.2

Mon 9:00 CW Gossip Girl 2.360 1.2
Tue 8:00 CW 90210 2.250 1.1
Tue 9:00 CW Melrose Place 1.380 0.7
Fri 9:00 CW America's Next Top Model [R] 1.260 0.6
Wed 9:00 CW Melrose Place [R] 0.800 0.3

That means in shares of the 18-34 demo, that SV is lower than everyone save MP and then ends up tying the cheaper to produce by far 90210.

Also, if you're comparing total millions of viewers, the difference between SV for last week (2.59) and:

SPN (2.58) = 0.4%

OTH (2.550 million) = 1.6%

Negligible difference in millions of viewers percentage wise, but again higher cost. It puts it low for demo of 18-34 in general (only above MP) and 3rd total in ratings but basically tied with 4 and 5th place.

GG has location shots all over New York City, the have their own helicopter pilot, I know these things aren't cheap. Smalllville films on a back lot in Canada, basically just one street set. I know Smallville is older but I think GG cost a lot more then you think.




Only a difference of .1, hardly a gigantic difference.

The proof is that, despite the location shoots, two things:

1) GG makes about 90 thou for 30 second commercial while SV does 30k

2) Tom was one of the highest paid stars on tv BEFORE he resigned and that was at 150k per episode, so I assume he makes more now. AM is on a new contract's second year at a high salary. ED resigned for more money at the end of season eight. That's three large, years long running salaries. Second, it's shot in canada, but the exchange rate is not what it used to be and they aren't saving what they used to in early seasons (Rosetta commentary). Third, they have to license the DCU-a-rama they are funding. Finally, they have special FX. GG might film in NYC which is costly, but it does not have CGI in nearly every ep or an EP/Star who most likely makes 200-250k an episodes, imho.

Actor salaries are not part of the network's budget; they're signed with the production company. The only cast member who is costing the CW money is JH, as his contract is specifically with them. As for TW's EP salary, I'm not really sure if that's covered by the production company, or the network and if so, if WB TV kicked in anything for that.

Smallville more then makes up for that with DVD sales.

Wait Gossip Girls makes exactly $59,316 for a 30 second commercial.



Tom making 150k is good but if you used the TV Guide list they omitted many actors/actresses who make more than that. I noticed Two people from Gossip Girls were on some of the other lists I looked at. Shooting in Canada saves them tons of money even if the exchange rate isn't what it use to be. No need for permits, no need for police on site. Location shooting is VERY expensive, GG also has a lot of commercial songs on their show which surely they don't get for free. I am not convinced that GG is that much cheaper to produce than Smallville.


I was looking at the Ad rates again and I noticed that Smallville is the closest to the other networks ad rates then any show on the CW besides ANTM.

Friday Night.

Supernanny
$52,050

Ghost Whisperer
$78,047

Law & Order
$59,953

Brothers
$54,157

'Til Death
$57,413

Smallville
$33,090

Now let's look at Thursday:

Flash Forward
$175,724

Survivor: Samoa
$152,246

SNL
$122,000

Community
$120,000

Parks and Recreation
$119,990

Bones
$107,942

Vampire Diaries
$38,966

Grey's Anatomy
$240,462

CSI
$198,647

The Office
$191,236

30 Rock
$159,674

Fringe
$120,062

Supernatural
$32,928

The CW doesn't care about actor salaries or how much the DVD sales make.

They pay one amount per episode (or per season if you want to look at it that way). How the production spends that money is up to them.

Likewise The CW doesn't see any money from the DVD sales. That money goes to the production company, in this case, Warner's.

So when you're talking about how much the show is costing/making The CW you have to be careful not to get confused. It's not like the CW is 'not paying' for Tom Welling's salary, and therefore the show is cheaper than Gossip Girl (and for the record I have no idea if it is or it isn't), they're paying one lump sum amount. Not one amount for actors, one for FX, one for writers etc.

The better question to ask is probably a) How much does Smallville cost per episode to make? b) How much is The CW paying per episode? c) How much is Warner putting up to cover the difference (if any)? And d) Are they making that money back on DVD sales etc.

Well, doesn't Warner Bros. own half of the CW? If a show they produce and broadcast on their network sells let's say $22 million in DVD sales, at least half of the network does see a nice little chunk of change.

Fascinating discussion. Here's my two cents. SV used to cost about $3M per episode to make (something Craig reported eons ago). With budget cuts I think I recall it was in the low $2M's BUT, I could be wrong. I do know many have commented that this year in addition to more cash for TW and ED, they have at least a C-level guest star in most episodes, apparently more location shots, and comments have indicated they might be spending more on FX. Now it could be they are blowing the budget early to get a S10, or it could be an investment by the WB.

I agree with the following ideas:
- Production costs are production costs. With the exception of JH (who IS a freebie to production), it takes X amount to make an episode.
- The CW pays only Y amount per episode (and since it was reported that in S8 they were paying S1 costs, I imagine it does NOT cover the production costs). It counts on advertising to get it's "Y" amount covered. Ratings=advertising dollars.
- The WB is covering some of the production costs (let's call that "Z") - perhaps for DVD sale and iTunes sales (I'm fairly certain the WB gets the money), perhaps to trot out live-action DC heroes and see who gets buzz (sort of like prototyping for future efforts).
- The CW has to at least break even to make it worth their while. Since Dawn set her threshold at 2M viewers, I presume that translates to ad revenue and her costs are covered if SV keeps above that number.
- The WB probably has to break even to make it worth their while. We don't have an equivalent figure of merit from the WB.

I think the DVD sales this past year were more on the order of $15M, not $22 -- but if someone has the exact number, please post that. I don't know how much they get out of iTunes.

Bottom line, everyway I work the numbers, SV is on the edge of profitability for BOTH CW and WB based on production costs and a presumed split cost share.

Other intangibles:
- For the CW: Do they have something that might make more money on Friday night? Don't know. Given they just cleared the 2M bar in the Fall, does the CW expect Spring ratings to keep the average over 2M? Don't know. Presuming Dawn gives SV some lee-way on the demo, is it meeting her bare-minimum on the demo (which we don't know BTW)? Don't know.
- For the WB: How much profit are they clearing? Don't know. Do THEY (not TPTB) love the show's new direction and think it provides Superman "visibility" in the market that they want? Don't know. What impact does that whole lawsuit thing have on anything? Don't know. If they don't have a Superman movie in the works soon, does SV count? I doubt it. If they lose the rights to Superman due to the lawsuit, does keeping a Superman property going help them? Is the parade of DC characters important? Are they spending development dollars to try out ideas on TV? Don't know.
- For TPTB: If they were confident that S10 was a slam dunk, would they have made the interview rounds begging for a S10 and give "tell all your friends" interviews? I think not. In fact - more than anything else, the fact that they are publicly lobbying so unsubtly for a S10 says that they are definitely on the bubble.

What about professional ratings guys and their commentary?: Well, seems to me, based on the joke-title at TV-by-the-numbers, the SV internet fandom is dominating some of those forums disproportionately to other shows. Hey, webhits! Score! Is it any wonder they are reporting more info on Smallville with some sites having a decidedly positive spin? Perhaps they really think SV is safe, but "slam dunk" seems really stretching IMO.

Bottom line: I think SV is on the bubble and S10 is not guaranteed. If S10 goes forward it is more likely for intangible reasons than profit making IMO. I personally think the overinflated praise for marginally better results makes the CW and others look silly and desperate. But YMMV.

The biggest unknown for me when it comes to SV's sustainability is international distribution. IMDB lists over twenty countries which aired the show at some point. Maybe there are more because Australia isn't listed and I'm pretty sure it has aired there. It could also be less assuming as fewer people watch some countries no longer carry it.

I can't find any concrete numbers for international distribution so I have no idea how may countries still show SV much less how much they actually pay for it. If anyone has those figures or even a rough estimate I'd love to see them. How much would say a Brazilian network have to pay to air SV? $50,000 an episode? $100,00? $150,000? I have no idea. If SV airs in 20 countries for an average per episode fee as little as $100,000 (say about 1/10th what the CW pays) that's $2 million, equal to one of the more current estimates of per episode production costs.

So long story short depending on the numbers I could see SV sticking it out for another year on international revenue alone.

Isn't SV beating Brothers and 'Til Death in both total viewers and the demo? And Neither Supernanny nor L&O are exactly dominating SV in the demo either. At $33k SV looks like quite a bargain. Either pricing for those other shows is going to have to go down or SV's is going to go up.

I'm fairly certain they do see a small percentage of the profit; they wouldn't get to plaster their name all over the packaging if not. The fact that Warner Brothers produces Smallville and owns half of the network does mean any profit earned by the WB is relevant to the CW.

Its gonna get another season......... just to torture me. I just know it.

The thing that strikes me wrt to international profits and ITunes, is that while WB owns a stock in CW, their profits and CW/Dawn's are separate. I am not sure what/how much makes it valuable to Dawn. I'm at the point, personally, where I wonder if even if she had it completely paid for by WB, it would be worth it to her to keep it as a property. It's not just about the cost of producing SV, it's also about what SV is costing the network. She doesn't have much confidence in it because she sent it to "the phantom zone" of Fridays and she also, imho, isn't seeing what she'd hoped---the 3 million range or it being very consistent in 18-34 or wimmins. The fact it's so old and most of her shows are about ready to put out to pasture and that she NEEDS to get new blood in there to try and revitalize her network (and to have credit for successful CW babies and not WB old school stuff), makes me wonder if she'd not just use Fridays to either rerun and pimp more VD or to try one of her slew of new possible pilots. I'd risk, imho, trying to start a new franchise over running one into the ground.

I remember the 7th heaven debacle but that came on the heels of a FINALE that did gangbusters and not on a the heels of a finale hated by critics, fans and everyone in between and with abysmal ratings as well as ratings that continue to sink despite massive promotion. It's just not growing or showing huge ratings. Better than EHC, but that's really not saying much, but YMMV.

She never once uttered 3 million in any of her talk in regard to Smallville moving to Friday.

Here is a direct quote from Dawn in response questioning moving Smallville to Friday night:

On The Decision To Move Smallville To Friday Nights: Friday night for us, this is the first year for us we’re actually migrating our viewers to Friday night. We thought the best way to open it up was with an established hit like Smallville.

It's advertising. That's two companies working together for mutual benefit. The CW still doesn't make any money from the DVD sales.

No, she never mentioned 3 million but about 3.4 was what it was averaging in the back half. She hoped if she moved it, that the dedicated fanbase would follow it but 45% of Odyssey's base did not.

Here are her exact words.

Is Dawn Ostroff trying to kill her flagship show, Smallville? Because if Fox/Dollhouse got barely 3 million viewers on Fridays, I doubt the CW will get anything better. — Rebecca
MATT: I asked Ostroff about her expectations for Smallville’s ratings in its new Friday home, and basically if Clark & Co. deliver more than Everybody Hates Chris and The Game were getting, that’d be super. “I think Smallville will do better than 2 mil,” she told me, avowing her faith in the show’s “very strong fan base.

So, out of the horse's mouth 2 million.

She didn't say she'd renew if it did better than 2 mil, just that she expected it to...and it has by about 200-400k. But it always drops at hiatus and into the winter. How long before it does under two million is the more operative question.

From Matt's Twitter:

Ratings snippet: #SMALLVILLE rises to 2.76 million viewers, and gained over the hour. (Pretty good episode, too!)

Interesting. The episode focusing on Clark's background gets the highest rating of the season.

No preemptions helped as well.

Preemptions are not factored into preliminaries.

They can artificially increase a show's ratings before the finals come out.

Anyone can give their own interpration about an increase in the ratings. Personally, I was more anxious to watch this episode than I was for Crossfire. This season has had two main arcs: The Iconic-Mythos-Legendary Clois and the Zod arc. After 6 episodes focusing mostly on the former, quite a few of us were anxious for a change of pace. I have even noticed quite a few people on the boards who last night tuned in for the first time.

Of course, any different opinion is appreciated and respected.

There's been plenty of non-preempted episodes I could have watched but didn't. And, though I'm not a Neilsen family, I do feel a little guilty for the numbers going up that high.

Of course if we're throwing theories out there, maybe people tuned in after last week's super awesome Clois kiss to see more super awesome Clois kisses only to be disappointed.

I haven't watched the show live for a couple of weeks but made sure to be home this week because the title & guest star intrigued me. And it was very nice to get back to mythos after the melodrama of Roulette & the rather sitcomy-y Crossfire.

Thread's getting a couple of days off for all the fannish pissing contest posts I had to delete.

Ain't It Cool News has some interesting comments on SV's ratings (you have to scroll down quite a bit). Found by Marta on Twitter. There's quite a bit, but here are the highlights:

Finals for 11/6



CW says
Not sure if it's enough for a renewal but I'm guessing DO feels pretty good whenever her tiny little network can claim #1s.

Wow, I haven't been to AICN in a while, they never change the decor, LOL.

Thanks for posting the stuff about SV's ratings they're very interesting and valid points.

Don't forget the "redemption of Oliver Queen" arc which even including Kandor has consumed more screen time than the Zod stuff (i.e. compare over an hour's worth of Ollie screen time over the past four episodes (ep 3-6) vs Zod's season total of about half an hour). I know I was ready to move on from that.

CW Scrubs up for Med-School Drama



I actually like the sound of this show as well. I enjoyed S1 of Greys before it became all about McDrippy/Mere angst (and nothing else, at least that's the way it felt). I think the CW is moving in the right direction, back towards the old WB formula of genre and family dramas. Its a pity, but I guess it's too late to pull Body Politic out of the draw, that would have been a great series.

So I wonder if this would be used to counter program Thursday at 9PM and draw young women away from Greys or would they keep it as far away from the Greys juggernaut?

I didn't see this mentioned but the Society/Legends two-parter is going to air over one night as a "TV Movie" event on January 29.

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/11/11/exc...e-takes-flight/

Matt made a tweet about the rating of Idol:

"Ratings snippet: #Smallville draws 2.7 million viewers. Nielsen powers, activate?"

pifeedback

Which it's not, since the overnights last week were 2.76, I believe. He seems to be comparing apples (overnights) to oranges (finals) here. SV episodes have consistently gone down a fair bit in the finals.

Exactly. Kandor got the season high in terms of overnights. Whether Idol's final rating is a season high, we will know on Monday. I think some folks are convenietly forgetting stuff.

As much as I think they should end it this year...If the numbers stay this high after they come back, or even if they don't drop significantly then I think they are going to get a season 10.

The fact that they are now making Society and Legend a 2 hour TV movie with a budget increase shows me that the CW has taken notice and is going to pull out all the stops to keep the viewers in the spring. I just don't see them agreeing to doing that unless they are planning on giving it another year or are testing the waters for what a Smallville TV movie would do for Warner's. Al and Miles always said how they were trying to get more money out of the network and they never could....Here we have them giving the show a boost for this event.

I have to say that I am impressed with how the show has done. I expected at most that they would be hovering right around 2 million by now.

That being said this show isn't Smallville anymore and they should just re-brand it next year as Superman year one.

The "TV movie" is really just airing "Society" and "Legends" back-to-back.

As for SV getting a "budget increase", according to PattyLaurie the "movie" cost $5M to produce (2.5/episode). I don't know if that's a budget increase.

It is...they only usually get 2 million per episode now..Ausiello, I think said that they were given an increase.

And yet marenh pointed out to me that Slegends (tm wwg) isn't airing during sweeps. Odd, isn't it? If they really wanted it to be that big a deal, I 'd think it would air during sweeps.

ETA: One site is actually saying it's been delayed till February 5, which would make more sense (although the site is not noted for being reliable and there's no way of knowing if it's true at this point). I honestly would expect it to air during sweeps-- it's just too much money spent on one night otherwise.

I doubt they got an extra million. More likely that million will have to be saved by producing other episodes that cost less.

And let's also keep in mind that that isn't actually PattyLaurie.

The "tv movie" appears to be the last chance to get this show, and the producers, a spin-off. A ready made story, actors, and stage. A big plus, some of the actors actually have talent. That is why the last minute addition of boobs mcchesty to the second half, she can transition over if need be. Another plus, the CW may believe that TW, and his big salary might not need to be transitioned with it, or he may only be needed for thirteen eps.

None of the other opportunities for a spin-off came to be. But with the expense of SV, especially actors pay, a new cast, new show, five year deals etc, and you could get similiar ratings, with a lot less expense.

Don't think it will work, but one never knows.

Any news of Fridays demos, especially DO's favorite one?

TV by the numbers
Also tv by the numbers Friday’s No Kryptonite For Smallville based on results through Kandor.