Ahhh...okay, thanks.




Exactly. You have to wait until the finals come out to make a fair comparison.



Well, they had a small increase last week and they didn't mention them in their press release. So, I doubt they are even paying attention at this point. It would take a huge jump (a point or more) to get their attention. But, this is the CW so who the hell knows anymore.

At this point it's probably all about expectations. Since I really thought the show might drop below 2.0 last night with the UB premiere and baseball playoffs I was in shock at the 2.62. But if you compare it to any of the other seasons then it's a flaming disaster. You can spin it either way, but I personally think Dawn has probably already made up her mind and this will be the last season. What SV has more than likely done is secure a complete S9, which I thought might be in doubt if the initial numbers for the first few episodes had dropped below 2 million. We'll see how the CW spins this, but I'll be surprised if they make a huge deal out of it.

I am disappointed that the ratings went up. I was hoping every episode this season would be the lowest rated ever. That would be sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

However, it is important to keep these things in perspective. It is still the case that every episode this season is lower rated than even the worst episode from any preceding season. We must keep our eye on the good, and try to overlook the disappointment.

Interestingly enough, the ratings for the 4th-5th episode usually go up, not sure why. I think in all but 2 seasons they went up to or surpassed the premiere numbers but then the ratings start to drop again. I have a feeling that when the finals come out, this episode will be back down to the season premiere number.

If you look at past seasons, the fourth episode typically sees a rise in the ratings for some reason.

I have faith PSW will continue to mishandle SV into oblivion.

It's finally starting to get cold in many parts of the country and nobody wants to go out? Then they see what crap the show has turned in to and decide they'd rather risk frostbrite to their extremities than watch this disaster? Maybe? Just a theory.

I would think people would prefer to watch a DVD or something.

From pifeedback



Berman sums it up for me.

A trainwreck can be fascinating to watch.

How many times in a row has SV been deemed a loser?

Ugly Betty didn't do that well in the overall ratings/demos but it did very well in the female demo. I think this goes back to what a lot of us said last week, it wasn't going to hurt SV in the overall ratings but might take another point off in the 18-34 female demo, which is all The CW cares about.

pifeedback



I think it's 4 for 4.

They typically end up being Event Type episode. S1 was X-Ray, S2 was Red, S3 was Slumber (REM special) & Perry, S4 was Devoted & Run, S5 was Aqua (Aquaman & JM/Brainiac) and Thirst (Carrie Fisher), S6 was Arrow (GA intro), s7 was Cure (Dean Cain), s8 had Instinct (Maxima). They all tend to be events and special guest stars, and even big DC guest stars/events.

Likewise, they promoted Echo heavilly as "TOYMAN! Ollie vs. Toyman! Continuity from last year! Also, Clark has a power." That was the official description, the episodic stills, the promotional clip. Toyman's return was announced by Chloe in the promos for two weeks. The entire promo for this week was save the date - for there will be Explosions, Ollie, Toyman, repercussions for the Blur, and more explosions!

So on the whole I think Toyman vs. Clark and Toyman vs. Ollie was the draw, much like other DC characters like Bart, AC, Ollie, Maxima, Curtis Knox (which was basically DC's Vandal Savage), Brainiac, and Perry White. Plus heroes vs villains (always a draw) and explosions.

The last 7 seasons.

Oh well that makes sense. If this was their event episode then a ratings bump for episode 4 is in line with what they've done in the past. Thanks for the explanation.

Wow..the CW is crowing about Smallville's numbers..

Pi Feedback.




I have NO idea what to make of this.

2.6 does seem like an improvement. But i will wait fir the finals before i can comment on it. It could drop or it could rise more. But it is unfortunate that people are celebrating a 2.6 rating for a show that did 8.4 for it's pilot. I realize that a show in it's 9th season will suffer a drop in the ratings, but it's still nothing to celebrate. IMO.

A more complete statement from the CW:



Ah look fellas, they think of you too.

Toyman and Oliver were advertised, and they delivered. Given that next week seems like the same formula (Ollie + DC Villain + some Clark promotion/focus) we will see if it delivers again.

It's crossed my mind after they wanted an Ollie spin off in s6, a Kara one in s7, and all the rumors of wanting a JLA spin off last year - that they might be hoping for another Ollie/JLA spin off opportunity.

If that's true, it could explain why the CW is so happy as well - they have a holding contract with JH already, and if they can deliver numbers with Ollie on Fridays then that would be in their benefit to spin him off and create a hero/action night on Fridays to accompany their gothic TVD/SPN Thursdays.

This cracks me up to no end. It's the equivalent of saying your half-dead horse made its fastest crawl of the season, without mentioning the legitimate racers that zoomed past it. Oh, CW, you guys really do entertain me, even if your show doesn't.

Pretty much. SMALLVILLE: celebrate, viewers, you have until May before it gets banished to the glue factory.

Except when they don't....like when they canceled Friday Night Smackdown, a show which routinely ranked #1 or #2 each week, avg about 4 million viewers and a 1.5 in the 18-49 demo.

And why did Dawn cancel Smackdown? Because it didn't fit with the female dominated lineup she wanted. Same as CBS canceled Close to Home because it skewed older and they wanted younger viewers

Smallville was taken off the Loser's list.

Look at that, the CW notices there are men in this world. Will wonders never cease?

See previous post; CW canceled male dominated show, Smackdown...

.

And.......they also canceled female oriented shows.

They canceled the male dominated shows with twice as much ratings numbers than SV is doing now. All the females oriented that they had canceled have had low ratings/failure.

lastdaughterfk - Thanks! I thought that was pretty self explanatory but I guess not. Yes the CW cancels shows that are female oriented but the ones that do get canceled do horrible in the demos TBL, (probably) MP and Privileged .

The point I was making is that they want female audiences, they canceled Smackdown even though it was doing fantastic in the ratings, and occasionally winning Friday night's 18-49 demo b/c it didn't go with the network branding (young females - preferably white).

They canceled Smackdown which out performed SV in every way on Friday nights, therefore SV will meet the same fate.

Yeah, it's sad how far SV has fallen. I know these ratings are a slight improvement, but that's mostly Toyman/Ollie, which is also sad when you compare the ratings Justice brought in.

Yep.

No matter how much you may want them to, McDonalds doesn't f*cking sell cupcakes.

Smackdown had the lowest ad revenues of all the CW shows. Smallville season 10 is looking good.

Seems Berman changed his mind. Smallville was taken off the "losers list".

I like wrestling too, its fun to watch, plus any time you put HHH and Shawn Hunter on my screen I have to watch...DX=crack. People were saying all last year that canceling Smackdown was a huge mistake...I don't see anything with SV S9 to counter that.

I could understand if it was a financial situation, but it wasn't, DO has gone on record stating that she canceled Smackdown b/c it didn't fit with her Network Image.

Problem remains the same whether there are more viewers or a higher demo. Smallville still isn't a hit with CW's target demo. If you read the press release the increase is either among older people or older men or men in general. Still no mention of the young female audience. And that speaks volumes.

I also think it's funny that CW compares Smallville's numbers to last Season's comedies. How the heck does that work? Totally different genres. They make it seem like an accomplishment. Of course demos for adults and (older) men would be a lot higher compared to last Season. As if a lot of men would tune in for comedies?

CW can spin it any way they want. Their target demo is nowhere to be seen when it comes to Smallville.

I'm really disappointed, can't believe the ratings went up!
My feelings about the epi and season 9:
http://thumbsnap.com/i/8DB2xvod.jpg

Smallville has the lowest of all the CW shows now..So, how is that different?

What were the ad rates for Smackdown? Ad rates overall have fallen considerably in the last year or two.

I heard that the entire viewing audience last night was up 25% from last week, and considering the crappy weather up and down the Eastern Seaboard, I'm not surprised. I know I changed my plans and stayed home to watch UB live b/c I didn't want to get soaked. (It was surprisingly good, btw!) So it makes sense that SV, like all the other shows, got a bit of a bump in overall viewers. Although apparently SV didn't profit nearly as much as it could have, seeing as its overall numbers only went up about 13% from last week's overnights (from 2.3 mill last week, as reported by TV by the Numbers, to 2.6 mill). And, much more importantly, its A18-49 demo hardly budged, going from 1.0 to 1.1. (I haven't seen the W18-34 demo number yet, which, I agree, is by far the most important piece of data as far as the CW is concerned.)

LOL at that press release! The CW must be desperate for good news of any kind, I guess. I love how they worded it to give the misleading impression that SV's numbers were somehow comparable to Smackdown's on 9/26/08, when the fact is that Smackdown totally trumped it in both total viewers (about 4 mill, IIRC) and 18-49 demos (around 1.4, again IIRC). And that still wasn't enough to save it from cancellation.





WORD, Laurelnola! At least this show is good for SOME entertainment value. :)

I hear that weather is continuing throughout the entire weekend, now I really want to know how the ratings are going to be if next Friday's weather is much better. I doubt people would want to stay in after staying in last weekend.

Smackdown wasn't cancelled. It moved to another network.

Yeah it went to MyNetwork TV, but only because CW didn't renew it due to bad women demos & low advertising $$. The show was big hit with men, but as mentioned, doesn't go with the demo they want which is 18-34 women.

What are Smallville's ad rates? Thanx for the info if you have it.

""""
Don't have this season, but this is for last season, was posted few pages back... It is actually second lowest last season just in front of Supernatural. The lower money makers as seen below except SUP were canceled.

2008 Top Money Makers for the CW per 30 second ad

$103,714 ANTM
$67,908 One Tree Hill
$62,139 Gossip Girl
$58,347 90210
$54,323 Smallville

$48,942 Stylista - Canceled
$44,533 Everyone Hates Chris - Canceled
$37,982 Supernatural
$33,305 Privileged - Canceled
$29,583 The Game - Canceled

Source: http://tvbythenumbers.com/wp-content/uploa...cost-100608.pdf

I think the only reason they kept SPN last year was b/c it actually improved yr 2 yr. I worry about it this year, it has improved in the female demo which is good but who knows if that's enough to save it.

I can't imagine that moving SV to Friday night actually improved it's ad rates, in fact it should have dropped them dramatically, as mentioned before Wednesday/Thursday nights are the "most expensive" nights (as far as ad rates go).

What I find most telling about that press release (besides the guffaw factor), is that because they're still trying to spin this as positive, it appears that they are determined to keep traveling down their suicide course, with smiles on their faces and their fingers in their ears.

I once said that you could never underestimate the stupidity of these producers- that anytime you dared to think they wouldn't "Go There", you'd find one of them holding a travel brochure that read: "A Guide to Going There!" and another one with an Express Ticket in his pocket. And so it has continued for the last four seasons, culminating in this apex of crapitude with ratings to match.

I mean, not that it isn't fun to watch them march confidently into the pit of cancellation quicksand, but you'd really think when their livelihoods depended on boosting the ratings, they'd be running from the direction that's doing nothing but sinking them like a stone. I am, as ever, amazed and entertained by their colossal determination to hang themselves.

Honestly curious question because I know nothing about this side of the industry, but if they're spinning it as positive when it really isn't, who are they spinning it for? Are ads for the whole season not sold already?

To my knowledge all PR's are for the advertisers...and it's mostly spin. The whole point is to highlight something positive so the advertisers are happy. I would imagine it's also used to keep the board off their back, and media/critics.

As morrigan pointed out, I'd assume that apart from trying to not look pathetic to advertisers, at least some of the spinning is for the industry itself- in other words, they're trying to save their reputations so that they have a chance for future employment. I'm sure they don't want to be remembered by their colleagues as the people who brought Smallville to new ratings-lows. But they chose the new direction for the show, promoted the crap out of it, and so apparently have decided to spin anything they can to deflect from the fact that the show is tanking under their leadership.



That I don't know. But I'd be surprised if all of the ads for the entire season were already sold. My understanding is that kind of total pre-sell usually only happens with shows that are hits. But again, maybe someone else has the definitive answer on that.

If all ads aren't sold, I can understand spinning for future sales, but why for the industry? One assumes the industry is smart enough to realize it's spin, seeing as how most of them have likely done it themselves a time or two, so I don't see what the purpose of that would be.


Except the CW has had the show since what, S4? Yes ratings have gone down in recent seasons, but I wouldn't call S4-S8 "tanking". Not to mention it's entirely reasonable - and I would even think expected - for any show in it's 9th season to take a ratings hit. So again, I don't see what the CW has to spin or apologize for, so to speak, but as I said, I don't know this side of the industry so there may very well be factors I'm not taking into account.

I'm not sure how much influence the network had on this season's direction. They might have set requirements, like improve in the female demo or something. However, the choice of how to get there seems to be all on the EPs.


I don't think it has anything to do with the industry so much as CBS/Warner Bros/media, etc.

I still have the same question: Wouldn't WB be savvy enough to know the CW is spinning? I'd think they'd be well aware of the situation and that no amount of spinning by the network itself would have any affect on their opinion.

I get the feeling that various hierarchies have their hands in the process of shaping the direction the show takes, notably Warner and DC comics. The EPs aren't operating in a vacuum.

I also think we don't focus enough on the budget constraints. We've had some pretty good action scenes this season so far, and I think that's a response to the overwhelming criticism of D-Day finale, supposedly curtailed by lack of movie-style funding.

Still, in the final analysis, creative writing can overcome a lot of obstacles, and I just don't think this bunch can produce consistent, continuity-driven, coherent scripts. Time travel conundrums that give us headaches, lack of knowledge of the show's history (Ollie's parents dying when he's five), and on-again/off-again spurts of romance (TW: "Clark's in love with Lois? When did that happen?"), Lionel as a hero (a hero?) -- this doesn't happen when someone in charge has a vision and sees to it that the vision gets to the screen in a believable fashion. It can be done . . see Kripke and Whedon.

I love this show, but I've also never felt so jerked around as I do in SV's universe. As many have pointed out, the showrunners were darned lucky to get "lightning in a bottle," in the form of TW, plus AM, MR, JG, and more recently SW.