I chose to compare the weekly numbers for the network. Smallville had an extremely late premiere compared to the other shows on the CW. We have no way of knowing if the numbers for the premiere would have been higher if they had allowed the show to premiere during the same time block as everything else. But honestly, it still doesn't concern me. The highest rated episode last year was "Bloodline" which came much later in the Fall block. We have no way of knowing if the ratings will drop next week but we also have no way of knowing if they will rise as the season progresses. So much of this is up in the air right now. What I am choosing to do is remain positive about a show that I enjoy. I hope the show gets better ratings as it progresses. I believe that it deserves them. But it's out of my control.

Premieres are sort of in a class by themselves compared to other episodes, so it's only "fair" to compared one premiere to another. When they aired doesn't matter as much as the fact that they all probably drew the same "composition" of audience. (Folks who want to check a show/season out, but won't necessarily keep watching, so the premiere number is somewhat inflated beyond what it would normally be.)

So comparing SV's premiere to a regular episode of another show is sort of like comparing apples and oranges.

In this case, neither option makes for a fair comparison. Smallville premiered against multiple other premieres, while the rest of the CW's line-up (minus The Beautiful Life) premiered before all the rest of the networks' fall line-ups.

We are going to have to just wait and see. There are so many factors that are invloved and it may talke a little time to see what the "true" reason or reasons is for the drop and how it compares.

I honestly feel that a big chunk of the fanbase is gone. The Saviour thread as of this morning is only at 10 pages. I would think that it should be much bigger than that by Monday morning. Even if people went there just to say what they didn't like about it. There aren't tons of postings because they just aren't watching anymore or they simply don't feel like giving it anymore of their time. YMMV

I disagree with this only because those shows shouldn't have appealed to SV's base. If SV and Dollhouse were going head to head I would agree, they're cutting into each other's ratings but L&O and Ghost Whisperer? Maybe the FlashForward repeat was direct competition but that was a repeat so I don't know.


I agree, let's give it two weeks and see how the numbers do.

The good thing about these ratings is they are high enough to get through the rest of the season and low enough to shut down talk of season 10. If SV were anywhere near the renewal bubble they'd start stalling again and when DO didn't renew the show would end in a state of semi limbo. At least now they know this is the year they're going to have to wrap this puppy up.

IMO, the worst thing a network or show runner can do to the fans is leave a show unresolved. That's one of the reasons I disliked TPTB takling about S10 and planning on 2 more years.

In either case, even if the ratings drop to MP levels at 1.5 million SV will complete it's 22 episodes, or if they cut it back it'll be like 18 eps. I seriously doubt the show is facing mid-season cancelation. If that was a possibilty, The CW would have only picked the show up for 13 eps, like they did with OTH.

Smallville's season premiere with series record low ratings is not good on any level, no matter how the CW might try to spin it. A show in it's 9th year basically has a core audience who are invested. These ratings validate a huge part of that core audience are gone. The fact that Stiletto in S8 (prior to the move), also set a new series record low rating validates the problem is simply not just the move to a new slot.

Next week will tell the tale about the core audience, IMO. If the ratings have gone up then the generally positive reviews of the episode helped bring a few folks back. If it goes down, then it's obvious that people just don't care anymore.

Not only that if is true that some people just missed the premiere because they forgot or due to some technical problems they probably will remember next week, of course I think they just didn't liked Failsday BIG fails that were not fixed by what they advertised on the premiere and didn't tuned in.



Now it all depends on if people liked the premiere, if they did, then the numbers will not go down but stay steady or go a little up, but if we drop even further then, well we know what that means, YMMV.

I would think that the DVD sales would warrant - at the very least - the completion of the season.

DVD sales were down 10% compared to S7 so, I'm not sure that's much help. However, the show will most likely get a full season, no matter how bad the ratings get. Maybe they'd cut it back to 18 instead of 22 but, I'd be shocked if it got a mid-season cancellation.

Piefeedback has the finals for Friday and SV did go up.



And now they are providing the demo CW cares about most, W18-34. Of all the CW shows SV comes in last in W18-34. Even behind the already canceled TBL.

W18-34 rating for CW shows the Week of 9/21 (compiled from Piefeedback) best to worst.
2.6/9 The Vampire Diaries
2.4/6 Gossip Girl
2.3/7 America's Next Top Model
2.3/6 One Tree Hill
2.1/6 90210
1.7/5 Supernatural
1.5/4 Melrose Place
1.1/3 The Beautiful Life (Canceled)
0.9/3 Smallville

ETA: Actually SV did beat one show, the ANTM rerun. Barely.

0.8/3 America's Next Top Model (Rerun)

Yeah, SV's DVDs aren't selling like they used to, and the DVDs were one of the factors keeping the show going. SPN's sold way more, and it came out a week later than SV.

But I assume SV will get a full season too. At best (or worst, depending on how you look at it), it'll get cut down to 17-18 eps, but I'm not expecting that either. It'll still be interesting to track the ratings as the season progresses, especially given the low premiere numbers.

Edit: Thanks for the numbers, Apostate. Yikes, even with the slight increase in total numbers, the demos don't look too good.

Wow, that is really bad in the Demo. Can I take back what I said about the mid-season cancellation being off the table? Sorry, bad joke, I'm actually in shock over that Demo, that's even worse than Melrose and if it wasn't for Heather Locklear's return I'm pretty sure Melrose would be gone before November sweeps.

SV has never been a consistent "demo" performer, from what I recall. It sneaks some good numbers in there once in a while and the CW crows about it when it does (Power last season, I believe), but I don't think they've ever counted on SV to bring in that group. If that was all that mattered, they'd have dumped it before now. S9 will go full season, and the CW will take the Friday night ratings it gets them

I doubt they'll dump SV either, simply because they don't have much to replace it. I do see that they've ordered two reality shows as midseason replacements, though. One is presumably for TBL. The other-- well, I'd be surprised if they killed Melrose Place midseason if they're getting Heather Locklear. But there's always that ANTM rerun slot to fill. So I guess we'll see.

ETA: I forgot they already have a midseason series scheduled. So now they have three fill-ins scheduled for midseason.

I'm pretty sure they already have a scripted mid-season replacement show lined up as well, I forget the title...had a girls name in it.

Right, I edited to say that. It's gone through three names, but the current name is Life UneXpected.

Yes, but I'll laugh as it sinks and blame the Summer of Thugman and Boobs Lame pimping for it.

Maybe they'll pull a 7th heaven and bring TBL back in and burn SV over the summer. Pretty deserving, IMO.

Damn Elly - You're fast. I just looked it up too, I don't know where I came up with a girl's name in the title.

Cool, it's got Liz Parker from Roswell and Jack from Dawson's Creek...think I'll give that a try.

Huh, snap. I'm just watching him on Justice right now. Another - good - show cancelled and SV still goes on and on and on.

For the week of 9/21, Supernatural had a 1.5/4 [source] and The Beautiful Life had a 0.9/2 [source]. (Not that either is much of a difference, it's just a minor factual correction. :))

Posted today at TV By the Numbers, SV looks likely for S10 renewal. This is by no means official, but TVBtN seems to know what they're doing. And of course, it is very early, yet.

Opps. Yeah, somehow I ended up with SPN's 9/18 and TBL's 9/17 numbers. Glad you caught it. It does mean at least SV beat/tied TBL for the week in the W18-34.

The TV by the numbers article was published at about 2-3pm, an hour to two before the pifeedback finals in demos were out.

The final numbers were dismal, 50k people really wasn't good, or helpful. As for the demo's, they were a disaster. Young women looked at the show, and the spoilers, and gave the show their middle fingers. Nicely done.

The real losers were the show, TW, ED, and DC.

Those numbers aren't sustainable. The network survives off of the demo's, and the demo's alone. Those numbers are the only thing that keeps the network afloat. If you can't really do better than a cancelled show, and a show on Friday nights and in repeats, then you lose.

I have only ever found TW's appeal to be that he is good looking. I don't think he can act, understands tv as an art form, or has any real talent at all. If you can't make young women watch you, as a tall good looking man, you got nothing. Future career, as a dad on a bad CW show seven to ten years from now. That young women will remember you as a bad superman on a show that told smart young women your dreams and goals are not important, then, have fun a some future soap opera.

As for ED, yikes. You have been pimped as an actress and your character all summer, and the show fails, well, a soap is maybe just a dream to you.


As for DC, well, good luck on any future Superman projects.

And it is still the fall, the ratings get worse in the spring. Yikes.

That article seems premature, to say the least. No telling how much further the ratings are going to tank.

This index is a work in progress, i.e. show demo avg/network demo avg. So, I guess he's saying that even though it's currently below the 1.0 mark (SV is at a .98) S10 is likely but if it continues to drop, the index continues to drop. I do wonder at the use of the 18-49 demo and not the 18-34W (since that's the CW's bread and butter)

Personally, I just find it hard to believe that a show, which premiere scored less in the demo than a canceled show, even if that premiere was on Friday is a lock in; especially when the show is so expensive.

At this point in time I can't even take SPN as a lock in, as much as I'd love to. I think it's in better shape than SV b/c it's increasing in that precious demo and b/c frankly The CW has nothing else that could go up against Greys and CSI.

Huh? Every season the show is on tenterhooks re: renewal--now suddenly after ONE episode, which produced shitty ratings, it's locked in for S10?

This makes no sense.

It's not locked in. TVBtN is, again, not an official source. They have their own formula and their own criteria, but they do seem to adhere to criteria that networks do look at. All they're saying is that based on their unofficial formula, for the moment, SV is what they would consider "safe" from cancellation and "likely" for renewal. I also think they do this comparison every week though I'm not sure on that, so how ratings and demos continue to do with reflect in future graphs. It just struck me as interesting that a site that does a whole hell of a lot of analysis based on "the numbers", considers SV to be safe in it's current position.

No, they aren't saying they consider SV safe. Basically, what TVBTN does is compare how a show is doing to the trends in renewals and cancellations over the years. So if a show gets a certain rating, they compare it to other shows in similar circumstances that have gotten similar ratings, and whether or not they were renewed. And this prediction changes from week to week as new ratings are tallied in.

The reasoning behind TVBTN's prediction for SV is that shows on Friday have gotten renewed with not-so-great ratings in the past. However, this prediction is based on the ratings for one episode. I'd think even they would say that the airing of one episode is too soon to really try to predict a show's chances for renewal.

But, really, this is TVBT playing a guessing game, although a somewhat educated one.

I think the problem here is the use of the 18-49 demo. While it's the bread and butter of the Big Four, it doesn't apply similarly to the CW. While SV is doing similar to the network average in the main demo, it's clearly not doing well compared to the average currently in the advertising niche that the CW is obviously aiming at, i.e., younger women.

That being said, I think as the season progresses, SV will actually begin to look better than it does currently compared to the rest of the network, as the overhyped shows like Gossip Girl and the Vampire Diaries begin to settle into their more expected long-term average ratings, while SV will likely retain as much of an audience as they usually do.

The catch is that SV is significantly more expensive than some reality show targeted to the female demo that the CW could cook up for next season. The fact of the matter is, Clana was probably demo ratings gold for the CW, and now with that ship sailed, all the Clois pimping in the world isn't going to bring back that audience, and the CW can't sell feminine hygiene products to a majority male audience.

ITA. That's why I indicated it was early and unofficial. Still, based on the formula they use, they feel SV is currently safe. But again, whether this actually means anything as far as the CW is concerned, who knows. Just tossing what I thought was an interesting article in to the mix.

So the formula TVBN used in relation to Smallville did not include the complete demo information?




I think both Clana & Chlark appeal to the younger demo, given the Lana arc was last season's best numbers, & there's Allison Mack's Chloe Sullivan winning Teen Choice awards. It stands to reason a huge part of the core audience are young women who invested with those 2 young female characters in the beginning. Then... you have the Nois focus episodes, which have now given Smallville their worst ratings ever & based on the pifeedback numbers, the show's worst demos in the CW's target audience.

Smallville doesn't connect to young women then it used to. I mean this show despite being about how an alien boy grows up to become the world's most famous superhero, it connected with people. And in terms of the demo, young women can relate, especially with Lana and Chloe. I found it interesting as the show focuses on Clois and Lois in general the lower the demo ratings are. Young women IMHO don't relate to Lois like they did with Lana and Chloe.

See with Lana for when they stayed true to the character, she was a girl trying to be more then the image people had of her. Everyone saw her as the pink princess/ cheerleader and she wanted to escape that image and define herself in her terms. Many girls relate to that.

Chloe is the typical "geek" girl but in a good way. She's passionate in what she does, smart, independent, not the pretty girl just adverage. Has a crush on her male friend wishing to be more then just friends. Who knows how to stand up for herself and others when needed. Girls relate to this character, I relate with this character.

Lois...how do young women relate to her? I know what I say may fall on deaf ears, I haven't really been an advocate for Lois but I am honestly trying to understand how young women relate to her?

My biggest issue is the writing, by the time they focused on Lois the quality of writing is so bad you are left with nothing but poor development and lightswitches. How can one relate to Lois when in one episode she's crying "I don't want to be second in my man's life. I don't want to share him with the world." to being all hot and heavy offering to be there for a Blur she never seen all because he's a hero. How can you relate to a character who ends a relationship with a character she supposdly love because he's a hero and then falls for a hero herself later? Not to mention the handouts and other stuff associated with developing the Lois character.

All I know is that Smallville is lacking in the demos because the show no longer relates to the targetted audience and that is very bad. Especially since the repeat of TVD did better wrt demos as a repeat on Friday then Smallville.

I wonder if the CW has a different strategy for Smallville. Where the Women 18-34 demo is their target for other shows, I wonder if they aren't going after older men for Smallville and promoting it to the advertisers that way. Lois and Clois centric episodes have historically skewed male and older. Maybe since they know they can get that audience they've decided to just go after it. Perhaps they say to the advertisers, "You want to sell to old men? Smallville's the show to reach them."

Since I've given up on Smallville this season and I don't watch other shows on the CW (aside from the occasional episode of Supernatural) I can't make much of a comparison, but it would be interesting to see if the products advertised on Smallville are different than the ones for the rest of the week.

The main characters name is Lux from memory. Hence the wacky spelling of Life UneXpected, with the L, U and X capitalised.

I wonder how OTH is doing in Dawn's demo. Smallville isn't garnering new viewers so maybe it skews older because the viewers are those who have stuck with it for nearly a decade. That's what makes me wonder about One Tree Hill, since it's the CW's second longest running show.

18-34W Demo from the previous page.

2.6/9 The Vampire Diaries
2.4/6 Gossip Girl
2.3/7 America's Next Top Model
2.3/6 One Tree Hill
2.1/6 90210
1.5/4 Supernatural
1.5/4 Melrose Place
0.9/2 The Beautiful Life (Canceled)
0.9/3 Smallville

Well I'm not "older" but I am a male and Lois/Clois episodeds don't appeal to me one bit.

It might have something to do with the fact many of the young women who watched Smallville grew up with Lana & Chloe. (raises hand) Invested years in those characters, now Lana is gone & Chloe is having every aspect of her life taken away, handed to Nois.

As for relating to Nois? I most certainly do not, in fact I find the character offensive, shallow & a disgrace to the Iconic name. My sorority is one which values academics & high standards, women of integrity and good character. Nois has none of those qualities. To reward the character via Clark's love, & place at his side, goes against everything Superman is supposed to stand for - she does not deserve it.

Wonder how SV is going to do tonight considering that's NY isn't showing it but instead a Mets vs Houston game.

Not just NY...No Smallville in CT either.

Those in the tri-state area should consider themselves extremely fucking lucky.

I knew NY/NJ fell into the NY Metro market, didn't think about CT

Since I happen to live in that coveted mishmash of meth houses, drag races, and tractor shows, I was going to ask when Metallo was re-airing and if it would be worth watching. You've just saved me some time, though.

Am I correct in thinking that the overnights/fast nationals will include the game's viewers? So, we'll have to wait until the finals on Tuesday to know the actual ratings?

Yep. SV's fast national ratings for tonight will include any Nielson household that was tuned to a CW station, whether they were actually watching SV or not. Then, in the finals (which I think would come out on Monday unless there's a delay), any markets that weren't actually airing SV will be removed from the count.

However, if any of those stations air the show later tonight, those viewers will be added back in. At least, that's how it worked last year. Supernatural's premiere was preempted in a few markets last season. But because the show was aired later that night in most (if not all) of them, there wasn't much difference between the fast nationals and the finals.

Is SV airing later in any of the preempted markets?

it's airing tomorrow here in NY/NJ, not sure about CT.