I don't understand the 5.25 million people that watch ANTM.

Thanks, PepSinger. Those numbers look good to me too. :)


And that sounds good to me, *g*. Go SV. Battle!

Fast Nationals for Wither.


From: zap2it.com

So they went up a bit.....18-49 male is still low...but the overall numbers went up a bit..

I just went through the numbers from KSITE and it looks like this episode beat the premiere...I guess this kind of puts a cramp on the whole CLana boycott is working argument...

The numbers did went up, which is good for Smallville but it'll fuel even more AlMiles and their obsession with triangles. Hear me out. We managed to go through 3 episodes without Clexana/Clollie (is that how they call Clark/Lois/Arrow?), if the numbers pick up, not so sure if we'll be this lucky.

And there's an explanation where the 18-34 demo have gone to. Interesting reading here.


The rest of the article is very interesting and although they can't establish where these viewers have gone with actual and valuable date, they mention the use of computer and dvds to explain the low numbers for this demographic.

you know what...i'm just so happy they went up....For whatever reason..Although I think the fact that the YANKEES are out of the playoffs had something to do with it...I just want to stuff it in the Clana boycotters face...

Hey, there are still 4 great teams in the playoffs. Contrary to popular belief. the Yankees are not the be all and end all of baseball. [/indignant Met fan rant]


So they aren't just watching the playoffs? That's what all the 18 to 49 year-olds I know are doing, including myself. (Yay for DVR!)

Oh trust me I don't like the Yankees..Or the METS..I am after all from south Jersey which means I follow all philly sports teams...

OH YEAH I FORGOT...COWBOYS SUCK T.O. BLOWS...Sorry had to get that out..

From: Mediaweek.



ETA: According to The Futon Critic

Thank you for the numbers and info, Katie. I'm glad SV is doing well and is staying competitive. That's so true, with the playoffs on and all, it's great that their audience is still here. My team's no longer in the playoffs (thanks to a um, sweep) and so, I've got no conflict. But totally, there must be lots of fans who do. Hang in there, SV!

Oh they'll come up with a reason.

Yeah, and their reason is Green Arrow. Interestingly enough, I didn't care much for him. I was too focus on MR nakedness.

I'm sure Justin Hartley's nakedness didn't hurt the viewership. Even my mom commented he was cute.

I liked him better in jeans.

Commentary from Wrighty's GF....

"He's hot...yeah he's hot...damn he's hot.....DAYYUUUUMMMM...That's Ok Lois I'll take him...Man is good looking...." And on and on....I'm not exaggerating I actually had to ask her to calm down during the hand stand scene..lol..But I got her back. Everytime Chloe was on screen I said "Look at that ass...that is perfection" And then when AOT came on "My god that woman is beautiful...mmmmhmmm" To which she was surprised because she didn't know I had a crush on her..So I had to tell her about my crush that started during Superman 3 and was rekindled as soon as I saw the pilot episode..

You two are going to have to stop watching television together. The only shows Mr. Booberella and I can watch together are the ones with plenty of gore to balance out our hormones. CSI, ER, Heroes. With Smallville I have to watch when he's not even anywhere in the house. ESPECIALLY since the addition of Green Arrow. I need a drool bucket and something to de-glaze my eyes every once in a while.

ETA: I just realized this post has almost nothing to do with ratings. So, in the interest of on-topic-ness: I find the 75% audience retention rate to be the most damning evidence against the Clana-boycotters. Does anyone know what Smallville's average retention rate was last season? I'd love some hard numbers to demonstrate that the people who are protesting the show are in no way representative of the fandom as a whole.

Smallville is the only show..Ok that and Supernatural where she does that...And since TW half nekkid in the cornfield is what made her want to watch I don't let it bug me..Besides every time there is a Victoria's Secret commercial on I forget she is in the room.. ;)

The retention rate refers to ratings for Supernatural rather than for Smallville (so in this instance Supernatural's rating was 75% of what Smallville's had been).

Damnit, I should read better. I thought that was audience retention from the previous week.

The hand stand actually left me cold, because it was so obviously a body double. But then, when they had shirtless Oliver for a whole scene? They had me back again.

This is from the Broadcast Newsroom:



If they're reprocessing the ratings for 20 CW shows, does this mean that the original ratings were too low because of misclassification of smaller CW affiliates? And does this include SV?

That's a good question...They make it seem that way...I mean they trash the black hole before the redo and then they say Never under estimate the power of the shatner...So I'm guessing they will go up.

Ratings from Oct 9-Oct 15

1) America's Next Top Model -- 5.50 M
2) Smallville -- 4.88 M
3) Gilmore Girls -- 4.71 M
4) Friday Night Smackdown -- 3.83 M
5) Supernatural -- 3.78 M
6) One Tree Hill -- 3.25 M
7) 7th Heaven -- 3.17 M
8) Everybody Hates Chris -- 3.03 M
9) Veronica Mars -- 2.96 M
10) All of Us -- 2.51 M
11) Girlfriends -- 2.47 M
12) The Game -- 2.14
13) Runaway -- 1.79 M

From mediaweek:

"and the CW’s Smallville (Overnights: #5, 3.5/ 5; Viewers: #5, 4.65 million; A18-49: #5, 2.0/ 5"

That's actually not that bad, considering the baseball playoffs went up almost 2 whole points since it was a game 7 with a NY team playing...But since the METS lost(thank God) that means that the NY audience might increase a bit for the show...But going down from a 3.6 to a 3.5 when the hardest competition for them right now when up 2 whole points isn't bad...Still it's nowhere near last years numbers but who know why they lost that million..Apparently the other shows haven't picked them up so the networks have no idea where the missing 18-49 yr olds went...My guess? Baseball playoffs that had 2 NY teams and 3 California teams..

Do you want me to hate you, wrighty? Because I am staring daggers at your screen name right now.

LOL....I'm a Phillies fan...What did you expect? The only part that sucked about them losing was that Billy Wagner didn't blow the game.. ;)

From Zap2it.com

Because I'm always confused - can someone explain to me what these mean?

Did a DCU episode actually fail to bring all the boys to the yard?

Actually, I think that for a "DC" episode, which was hyped and promoted to the max, the ratings are quiet disappointing.

I think that people who would watch know that Green Arrow is goig to be around for a while though, which makes the whole thing a bit less special.

You are not the only one. The numbers are kind of complicated to figure out and getting their whole meaning can be annoying. But usually mediaweek and eonline break the numbers into information we can actually understand.

More fast nationals. From The FutonCritic.


And from K-Site:

So far, Smallville is doing pretty good considering they are in a new network, that Thursday is the most competitive day of the week and it's been able to maintain (and increase) a steady audience, since the premiere.

Chiriru, the first number (2.8) is the audience number, I think in millions of people, and the second number (/5) is the "share." A "share" rating is basically like a percentage. A 5 share on a Thursday night is pretty good. A 5 share on, say, Saturday night would be awful. (Because Thursday is a CSI night and CSI hogs like 40% of the world's audience. Plus, you have to take in to account that the Mets audience is huge, so a baseball playoff with the Mets is going to draw huge ratings.) (Sorry 'bout your team, Scout. But, like I said, my Tigers are going to beat whomever, it doesn't really matter who won last night.)

Okay. Cause I do remember Cyborg and Aqua going up in the 6mils range; so am I reading it correctly that only about 3 million watched last night? And that it's down from last week? And not in line with what DC episodes normally do?

I've gone through this before but I always seem to mess it up. :/

Game 7 of a baseball series, unfortunately skews the numbers I think. Plus, as said earlier it's a bit different from Cyborg and Aqua because we know GA will be sticking around.

The 2.8 is the household number: 2.8% of all households were watching the show. The 5 indicates that 5% of households which were watching tv during that hour were watching the show. Since a household often contains more than one person, that turns out to be around 4.65 million viewers, as reported by Mediaweek. That's down from 4.93 million last week.

It hasn't increased, but it has been fairly steady:

Zod: 5.04 million
Sneeze: 4.60 million
Wither: 4.93 million
Arrow: 4.65 million

TV ratings are fascinating to me. Sociology was one of my undergrad majors so I like looking at how groups of people share behavior patterns.

For those who are interested the ratings for Arrow were very disappointing on a year to year basis. Basically, you can look at these things week to week and year to year to see trends.

Last year, Episode 4, "Aqua", was seen by 6.4 million people. It went up 500,000 viewers above the ratings for the first 3 episodes of Season 5 (5.9 million each).

This year, Episode 4, "Arrow" was seen by 4.65 million people. That's down almost 2 MILLION VIEWERS from the same episode last year (year to year). Down 300,000 week to week. And down 400,000 from the premiere.

And this is bad news bc if you look at viewing season long viewer patterns for Smallville, the shows typically start out with higher ratings and go down about 1 million viewers over the course of the season.

SEASON 4
1. Crusade...............final number 6.1 million viewers.
2.Gone................final number 5.7 million viewers.
3.Facade........final number 5.5 million viewers.
4.Devoted........final number 6.2 million viewers.
5.Run............final number 5.4 million viewers.
6.Transference......final number 5.7million viewers.
7.Jinx...............final number 5.0 million viewers.
8. Spell............final number 5.5 million viewers.
9. Bound.......... final number 5.1 million viewers.
10. Scare ............final number 4.9 million viewers.
11.Unsafe......... final number 4.2 million viewers.
12.Pariah............. final number 4.8 million viewers.
13. Recruit........... final number 4.9 million viewers.
14.Krypto ............final number 5.1 million viewers.
15. Sacred ..........final number 5.3 million viewers.
16. Lucy.............. final number 4.5 million viewers.
17. Onyx........... final number 3.9 million viewers.
18. Spirit........... final number 4.4 million viewers.
19. Blank........... final numbers is 4.6 million viewers.
20. Ageless.......... final numbers is 4.5 million viewers.
21. Forever........final number 4.0million viewers.
22. Commencement.......final number 5.5 million viewers

SEASON 5
1. Arrival.......final number 5.9 million viewers.
2. Mortal.......final number 5.9 million viewers (WB Network)
3. Hidden.......final number 5.9 million viewers.
4. Aqua.......final number 6.4 million viewers.
5. Thirst.....Final Number 5.8 million viewers ( WB Network & USA Today)
6. Exposed......Final Number 5.4 Million Viewers
7. Splinter.....Final Number 5.5 Million Viewers
8. Solitude......Final Number 6.0 Million Viewers
9. Lexmas........Final Number 5.4 Million Vewiers (ABCmedianet.com)
10. Fanatic.......Final Number 5.5 Million Viewers
11. Lockdown.....Final Number 5.0 million Viewers.
12. Reckoning.....Final Number 6.3 million Viewers.
13. Vengence.....Final Number 5.4 million Viewers.
14. Tomb....Final Number 5.4 million Viewers.
15. Cyborg....Final Number 6.2 million Viewers.
16. Hypnotic...Final Number 4.8 million viewers.
17.Void...Final Number 4.2 million viewers.
18. Fragile......Final Number 3.9 million viewers (ABCmedianet.com)
19. Mercy........ Final Number 4.4 million viewers
20 Fade........Final number 4.3 million viewers.
21 Oracle........Final number 4.8 million viewers
22 Vessel........Final number 4.9 million viewers

- reposted from dts.

I'm not sure it's a fair comparison, tho..I know this is starting to sound like a broken record, but the CW is a new network with fewers markets showing Smallville than in previous years under the WB. It stands to reason that viewership might dip if you don't have as many people able to tap into your network's shows.

Plus, you had two NY teams and three California teams in MLB playoffs, taking away a good chunk of male viewers...the kind of viewers SV is losing. The Mets being in game 7 last night took a significant chunk of the male demo away from a lot of shows, including SV. Losing a part of your NY market is always going to have an impact.

This is an honest question: Have there ever been any shows in their 6th season whose viewership has ever increased or not dipped drastically? Let's take the L&O franchise out of the equation.

I'm asking because I'm wondering if perhaps we're expecting too much performance out of a show with such longevity. I would think that the longer a show is on, the harder it is to sustain old viewers (new interests) and attract new ones (they think it's too late to join in on the story).

Keep in mind also that last year's Aqua was actually against DECREASED competition. Fox was supposed to show baseball that night, but the championship series was finished within 4 games or whatever, so instead of baseball which got a 12 rating last night, they showed a repeat of The OC.

For any fair comparison, you have to judge against other shows on the same network. Second, you would need to look at competition that Aqua had.

In fact the more I look at the numbers, I come to the opposite conclusion. "Arrow" was impressive. Baseball's share increased by 8% for Game 7, that's a huge number. For an opposing program to only lose 50k viewers, is quite strong.

Eh, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. I'm sure that 10 different people could analyze the ratings and come out with 10 different conclusions. All I know is that the big episode for the Green Arrow went down from the previous week. And that makes me SMILE :D After this, I want them to go back up, but I didn't want big numbers for the pimpathon. I'm glad more people tuned in for The Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg. B/c all of those character stories were about them meeting Clark, and their interaction with him. Not a freaking showcase for a guest actor.

So, call me petty, wrong, stubborn, cranky, whatever. The ratings for "Arrow" went down, and thats just A-OK in my tiny corner of the world.

3 down on the JH countdown, 4 more teeth grinding episodes to go (with Justice possibly getting a big pass).

JMHO

The year to year analysis is used by all the media buyers that's why week to week and year to year figures are used in network press releases. It's the way the people in the industry analyse ratings. That's why it is relevant. I'm not sure fair has anything to do with it. It's not a judgment. It's like a life expectancy chart. It's about looking at numbers and figuring out trends and determining what is likely to be the audience size for a 30 second spot on any particular show episode to figure out what the market price should be. And I posted the Season 4 and Season 5 charts to show a strong correlation in the ratings patterns.

As for coverage, I reposted a few pages ago something from the zap2it.com forums which has a group of serious ratings watchers in their forums. Anyway, the CW doesn't have much less coverage than the WB or UPN. The figures are included in that post. So the dip is not due to lack of coverage.

The media magazine article posted on a previous page about the one million 18-49 age viewers who watched primtime network tv last year, but don't this year is a different story. That is definitely a problem for CW bc it almost exclusively their lineup that has lost these viewers. The point of the article is the MYSTERY as to why these viewers are no longer watching. It's not that they cannot watch the network, it's that they aren't. They media experts are going to look into figuring out why they are no longer watching tv. My own spec. is that they had one favorite show that was appointment tv for them and that was lost in the shutting down of the netlets which consequently caused those viewers to dump tv watching in favor of other pasttims like the internet. A media analyst quoted suggested the main theory is that they are now online or watching dvds, they just don't know why these former tv watchers made the choice to stop watching. The loss of programming aimed at minority viewers due to the merger was specifically addressed as a possible explanation since UPN targeted minority viewers and a lot of that programming was axed in the CW launch.

Aging Show - Shows usually do go down in ratings. But, not necessarily so. Some shows continue to grow (e.g. hits like Seinfeld and Friends) until they are pulled off the air. Last season, Smallville should have gone down. There was every reason to think it would, but instead it thrived. Of course, in that cage match the aging Alias folded instead and this year Smallville is in the cagematch against Ugly Betty and MNiE/The Office which are excellent shows so the competition is stronger in that sense.

Not a one night deal - Ratings for serials aren't generally about one particular night/episode so whatever was on opposite last night in particular isn't that relevant. It's about predicting the audience that will be there regardless of what else is on. Serials aren't the Oscars or the Superbowl where special event rates are made. They are generally lumped together unless something special is planned which would give advertisers some reason to believe there will be a dramatic increase for a particular episode.

[quote]

I'll end with just one comment...the MLB playoffs have been going on for the past month, I was just using the Mets game last night as an example of a large market's attention being drawn somewhere else. NYC had two teams in the playoffs this past month...it would be difficult not to judge the ratings for a serial show in this light.

ET: Okay, I lied. One more thing...The other thing that I keep coming back to is this:

Every year, much fretting and handwringing and gloating goes on about SV's ratings, how they're going down, how this supposedly means something significant, etc. ANd yet...here we are! Season 6! Not many shows ever last this long, and yet we're still screaming about how the sky is falling on our show.

Perhaps...we're wrong? Perhaps we're getting ourselves all worked up over something that, at the end of the day, isn't the doom and glloom some of us think it is?

Something to ponder.

The other thing to keep in mind about this same timeslot this time last year is that Alias wasn't the challenge Ugly Betty has been, and NBC at the time was showing Joey.

I don't think the sky is falling. I think they were shocked as hell that SV did as well as it did last year in the Thursday night slot. And since it draws pretty consistent numbers among younger viewers, the WB/New CW considers this a huge bonus, as their network is aimed at younger viewers. The fact that they decided to leave Smallville/Supernatural on on Thursdays, against Survivor and CSI, along with the new programming on other channels, says to me that the didn't think any of their other shows would be strong enough to compete in those time slots.

SV is 1 of the strongest shows on the CW, as it was on the WB. I don't see how anyone can say it's ratings are bad or disappointing, it'll be in the top 3 again this week like always. It got nothing to worry about.

Right now other shows should start getting a little worried.

You know, I was just thinking about it, and I'm usually pretty far behind in technology simply because I can't afford it. I don't have an iPod. I still use Windows 98. Et cetera. But I do have a DVR, just because our cable company made it part of their standard package. And I bet a lot of people have Digital Recorders now, and can tape more than one show at once. I wonder how long it's going to take for Nielsens to accomodate for that. Because a lot of shows that don't get great ratings are still getting watched, you know? I can't watch primetime at all because I'm at work, but I still watch those shows when I get home at midnight. But if I were polled for Nielsens (which I won't ever be, because I work in TV,) I couldn't count most of that stuff, because if you get a Nielsen bible they ask you to write down what you're watching live. I know that they issue electronic boxes now that hook on to your tv and tell them not only what you're watching when, but who's watching it (that's how they get the age figures.) I wonder how long it will be before they put a chip in TiVo/DVRs to survey what's being recorded? It could save a lot of shows from cancellation.

No one has really talked about this, but actually the state of the CW as a business investment is definitely something I've wondered about. Les Moonves promised his board of directors that the CW would be profitable its first year. I don't know if that timetable is relevant to any decisions by the board about the future of this particular investment or not, but I do think about it now when I read ratings analysis for the network as a whole. The WB and UPN did unexpectedly close their doors. NBC announced today dramatic cuts in its media outlets/programming to cut costs. ABC is moving shows around quickly. TV networks in general seem to be under unprecedented pressure to make money. With the rise of digital media and cable, it is not completely impossible that CBS and TW will decide to cut their losses after a year if the CW doesn't look like a promising investment. I've similarly wondered how long FOX will stick it out with MyNetwork if things don't start improving.

For example, ANTM and Beauty & The Geek which can't cost as much as serial fare like SV and Supernatural to produce are big ratings draws. Non-scripted/Reality tv (as crappy as most of it is) is cheap to make and can bring in ratings that surpass serials. NBC just announced that it is going to exclusively non-scripted programming in its 8 pm timeslots. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/enter...on/15806358.htm

Now, I'm not saying that the CW would do something like that next year, but I do think it's possible. Budget wise, it might make a lot of sense to the owners.

booberella - Nielsen already takes DVR recording if viewed the same day into account (both with boxes and the paper diaries). The CW however, may be looking forward to January when college on campus "dorm" viewing will be included in the Nielsen rating system. Based upon initial research, shows like GG and VM, are expected to get a bump in viewers from this. I mean, don't think it's going to double their ratings or anything. There aren't that many college students who live on campus and watch primetime tv, but there should be a noticeable increase bc of this change.

Man what is with all this doom and gloom about ratings people? Let's not forget that comparing Green Arrow to one of the most widely known comic book characters(no matter how dorky people think he may be, almost everyone has heard the name Aquaman) is misleading..Aqua was all over the Hollywood entertainment shows...I watched two of them last night and Green Arrow was not mentioned..Even when they were going over their hotties on thursday feature...

And no matter what the ratings are, here is the undeniable truth..SMALLVILLE is the highest rated scripted show on the network so far this year..The CW has nothing..I repeat nothing to replace it if they were to cancel it. If they cancel Smallville this year then the network is finished. It may already be DOA, but Smallville gives them some leeway to find a replacement in time for the show to end next year. This show will not be cancelled unless it starts pulling Runaway numbers. This is very reminiscent of when Smallville went up against LOST that first year..Well Ugly Betty is this years LOST..Plus they have My name is Earl and The Office to worry about...

So relax...The show isn't going anywhere anytime soon...

PS..I know alot of people are hating the pimping of the Green Arrow, but I definitely think this is coming from the CW and not Al and Miles per se...The CW might be looking for a show to take over for Smallville and I think they want to see if a Green Arrow series could fly..And even though Clark has seen his screentime dwindle a bit(something I'm sure TW really appreciates seeing he can get some sleep) I have to say that I would watch a show about Green Arrow...Imagine if they go with it next year, they will have the CW superhero night..

Also, Survivor is this year's... uh... Survivor.