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EllyF
US TV is crazy...


I think it's more a reflection of how pathetic and desperate the CW is.
lovesflicks
It's funny to me how Dawn O is bending over backwards for the show now-possible 10th season even if the ratings suck and she's been doing more promoting of SV and SPN than ever before. Maybe she is finally realizing that in order for her babies to survive she NEEDS SV and SPN on the CW. Her network will be gone after those shows end.

The bad part of all this is because SV is such a flagship show for the CW and it's survival depends on it being renewed is that there could very well be a Season 11. I can see Dawn leaving this show on for a LONG time since even when it's at it's suckiest it still pulls in better ratings than 90210 ever does.

Don't hate me for this but maybe SV could have ended on a better note if any of Dawn's shows like Privileged or 90210 were modest hits. That way the CW could continue on without SV and SPN on the schedule. Unfortunately, that's not the case and the new crop of shows like the Melrose Place redo and Vampire Diaries might not catch on either.

The CW can't afford to yank SV now.
CantThinkUpName
This show will not lose 1/3 of its audience. I'd like to think that Dawn is just talking out of her ass considering how this season hasn't even started yet and she has no idea how the next year will play out.

But, with TW signed for season 10, they probably did overcome the biggest hurdle for a S10. And with AM talking about how she wants out at the end of season 9 and ED signed until S10 (IIRC)... oh we are so doomed.
Full Frontal
and ED signed until S10 (IIRC)... oh we are so doomed.


Did we get some kind of statement on her contract status?
Daystra
But, with TW signed for season 10, they probably did overcome the biggest hurdle for a S10. And with AM talking about how she wants out at the end of season 9 and ED signed until S10 (IIRC)... oh we are so doomed.


I can't shake the feeling wrt the contracts we were wrong.

We all believed that ED's contract expires this year, what if she was always contracted for S9? That she signed a 5 year contract at the end of S4.
FuzzyPink
We all believed that ED's contract expires this year, what if she was always contracted for S9? That she signed a 5 year contract at the end of S4.

I'd find it hard to believe that they'd sign anyone past TW and he wasn't signed for S9 until recently. It makes more sense they signed her to match what TW had at that point, which was up to S8.

Regardless, does it really matter? S10 isn't a given and even if Erica isn't signed, neither is AM. Right now the only people we know for certain who are signed that far are Tom and Cassidy. Granted, I'd watch the Clark and Tess show, so I'm not all that upset.
SaveLevi
I can't even believe that the show only needs to pull in 2 million viewers to be considered a success at this point. That's like passing a test simply for writing your name. No, not even that. For sitting there and staring at the scantron.

Awful. No wonder we didn't see any epic Clark/Dooms battle. I'm sure that PS found all this out and figured they'd probably have another two seasons left--so they stuck Dooms underground to be dealt with later on.

Honestly? This is a mess. A big one. If only this show had been picked up by another network back in the day....
RedKRules
IMHO, CW picking up SV was THE mistake. Since then show quality only sink lower and lower. And now they only need 2 millions of viewers , when the show used to have 7 to 9 millions in its golden age,that is just sad.
morrigan2575
I'd find it hard to believe that they'd sign anyone past TW and he wasn't signed for S9 until recently. It makes more sense they signed her to match what TW had at that point, which was up to S8.


I always thought they did standard contracts, 5 years, 2 year extensions and then 1 year (special cases).

It's not unheard of for a secondary character on a show to be signed on for a year beyond the star. Towards the very end of JAG Catherine Bell was contracted for 1 year longer than David James Elliot just on the basis of starting a season or 2 into the show.

IIRC when the show was re-newed for it's final season CB was already contracted but they had to sign DJE up for a 1 year contract with less episodes/screen time b/c he had a development deal in place and was looking for a new vehicle to star/produce.

RedKRules - Did SV really pull in 7 Mil viewers? I didn't think any show on WB/UPN/CW ever pulled in that high of a viewership. I know BTVS/ATS never did that high, I think BTVS may have pulled in 5-6 Mil for the premiere of S6 when it moved to UPN. I thought their highest rated show back in the day was 7thH and I don't recall that bringing in FOX type numbers.

Wow - I had no idea that SV was that popular.
The Spook
Ooph, JAG. Finale of that show brings back bad memories.

Anyway, I'm wondering if the ongoing contract limbo between SAG and the studios will change things up with regards to ED. In other words, does anyone think the normal way things work might be circumvented at all?
morrigan2575
Ooph, JAG. Finale of that show brings back bad memories.

The coin toss? Or just waiting 20 years for a 20 minute pay off to Harm/Mac? Could have been worse, could have been X-Files I really hated that ending...I felt so cheated and I wasn't even into Mulder/Scully.

ETA - Is there still a possible SAG strike pending? I lost interest after the writers strike.
RedKRules
RedKRules - Did SV really pull in 7 Mil viewers? I didn't think any show on WB/UPN/CW ever pulled in that high of a viewership. I know BTVS/ATS never did that high, I think BTVS may have pulled in 5-6 Mil for the premiere of S6 when it moved to UPN. I thought their highest rated show back in the day was 7thH and I don't recall that bringing in FOX type numbers.

Wow - I had no idea that SV was that popular.


http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/2/5/27...gsm_f0bff52.jpg
EllyF
Did SV really pull in 7 Mil viewers? I didn't think any show on WB/UPN/CW ever pulled in that high of a viewership.


According to Wikipedia, "The pilot episode broke the record for highest rated debut for The WB, with 8.4 million viewers." Season 2 was the best rated season with an average of 6.3 million viewers. I recall from a previous discussion that "Prodigal" and "Red" were the big winners, ratingwise, but I couldn't find the exact ratings anywhere.
RedKRules
According to Wikipedia, "The pilot episode broke the record for highest rated debut for The WB, with 8.4 million viewers." Season 2 was the best rated season with an average of 6.3 million viewers. I recall from a previous discussion that "Prodigal" and "Red" were the big winners, ratingwise, but I couldn't find the exact ratings anywhere.


I couldnīt find it either, but I found this graphic to be really really interesting.

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/2/5/27...llm_51351b9.jpg
morrigan2575
Thanks for that guys (or girls) it's not that I doubted you I just couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that it drew in so many viewers. I can understand why this is/was the flagship show.

Looking at that chart it's amazing to think that the CW would be happy if SV brought in 2 Mil viewers. There's also an interesting trend in the audience,
1) it lost viewers from season to season
2) it lost viewers over the course of a seaon.
3) Viewers seemed to drop off mid-way through and then tune back in for the finale and next season premiere only to tune back out.

I wonder what made people come back? Was it the hope of a fresh season erasing the issues of the past?
ScrappyTheOwl
Did SV really pull in 7 Mil viewers? I didn't think any show on WB/UPN/CW ever pulled in that high of a viewership. I know BTVS/ATS never did that high, I think BTVS may have pulled in 5-6 Mil for the premiere of S6 when it moved to UPN. I thought their highest rated show back in the day was 7thH and I don't recall that bringing in FOX type numbers.

Others already answered your question w/r/t Smallville's numbers, but on WB and UPN, WB actually pulled in some decent numbers once upon a time (UPN paled in comparison). 7th Heaven went over 11 million a couple times (7th Heaven holds the WB record: 12.5 million viewers). Smallville and 7th Heaven were definitely The WB's two highest rated shows. Ever.

(Buffy was always only a moderate hit for the network. Its highest numbers ever were 5.3 million for a season 3 episode; on average, the show pulled around 4 million.)
The Spook
The coin toss? Or just waiting 20 years for a 20 minute pay off to Harm/Mac? Could have been worse, could have been X-Files I really hated that ending...I felt so cheated and I wasn't even into Mulder/Scully.


Both. But hey, I can't complain too much. At least they GOT pay off.

And I think the limbo is still in effect, and the SAG technically can strike at any time, but aren't. Methinks they're waiting for the opportune moment. It sure as hell won't be ED though, so I wonder if the producers will screw her. But then, bias aside, I wonder what that might mean for contracts in general.
CantThinkUpName
Another thing about Dawn's comment that confuses me. Even if the show does better than 2 million viewers, isn't the show a lot more expensive to produce than Chris or the other show that's on after Chris? I obviously don't know for sure but I can't imagine a half hour sitcom to have as much of a budget as an hour long action show with the occasional CGI. It would be like holding Transformers to the same box office standard as a low-budget indy film.
SteveWright
I'd find it hard to believe that they'd sign anyone past TW and he wasn't signed for S9 until recently.


AM was signed for a season 9 before TW was. It's not unheard of, but I doubt they signed her for a 5 year contract.
Batman Beatles
Another thing about Dawn's comment that confuses me. Even if the show does better than 2 million viewers, isn't the show a lot more expensive to produce than Chris or the other show that's on after Chris? I obviously don't know for sure but I can't imagine a half hour sitcom to have as much of a budget as an hour long action show with the occasional CGI. It would be like holding Transformers to the same box office standard as a low-budget indy film.

As if the effects aren't lackluster already. Now if the show was actually good, then it wouldn't need CGI FX to cover it up.
mykka
Ratings in millions

Season 1

Pilot - 8.4
Metamorphosis - 7.3
Hothead - 6.0
X-Ray - 6.6
Cool - 5.9
Hourglass - 6.4
Craving - 7.4
Jitters - 5.8
Rogue - 5.8
Shimmer - 7.0
Hug - 6.4
Leech - 6.1
Kinetic - 6.2
Zero - 6.9
Nicodemus - 6.7
Stray - 6.0
Reaper - 5.5
Drone - 5.7
Crush - 6.4
Obscura - 6.1
Tempest - 6.0

SEASON 2

Vortex - 8.7
Heat - 8.1
Duplicity - 8.8
Red - 8.9
Nocture - 8.3
Redux - 8.2
Lineage - 9.4
Ryan - 7.4
Dichotic - 8.3
Skinwalkers - 8.6
Visage - 7.3
Insurgence - 6.6
Suspect - 7.5
Rush - 8.1
Prodigal - 7.4
Fever - 7.9
Rosetta - 8.7
Visitor - 5.9
Precipice - 6.7
Witness - 6.5
Accelerate - 7.0
Calling - 7.1
Exodus - 7.5

SEASON 3

Exile - 6.8
Phoenix - 6.7
Extinction - 6.5
Slumber - 6.9
Perry - 6.7
Relic - 6.7
Magnetic - 6.9
Shattered - 6.4
Asylum - 5.6
Whisper - 5.1
Delete - 5.5
Hereafter - 5.3
Velocity - 5.0
Obsession - 5.3
Resurrection - 4.9
Crisis - 5.3
Legacy - 4.5
Truth - 4.4
Memoria - 4.3
Talisman - 4.7
Forsaken - 4.5
Covenant - 5.9

SEASON 4

Crusade - 6.1
Gone - 5.7
Facade - 5.5
Devoted - 6.2
Run - 5.4
Transference - 5.7
Jinx - 5.0
Spell - 5.5
Bound - 5.1
Scare - 4.9
Unsafe - 4.2
Pariah - 4.8
Recruit - 4.9
Krypto - 5.1
Sacred - 5.3
Lucy - 4.5
Onyx - 3.9
Spirit - 4.4
Blank - 4.6
Ageless - 4.5
Forever - 4.0
Commencement - 5.5

SEASON 5

Arrival - 5.9
Mortal - 5.9
Hidden - 5.9
Aqua - 6.4
Thirst - 5.8
Exposed - 5.4
Splinter - 5.5
Solitude - 6.0
Lexmas - 5.4
Fanatic - 5.5
Lockdown - 5.0
Reckoning - 6.3
Vengeance - 5.4
Tomb - 5.4
Cyborg - 6.2
Hypnotic - 4.8
Void - 4.2
Fragile - 3.9
Mercy - 4.4
Fade - 4.3
Oracle - 4.8
Vessel - 4.9

SEASON 6

Zod - 5.0
Sneeze - 4.6
Wither - 4.9
Arrow - 4.7
Reunion - 4.8
Fallout - 4.9
Rage - 4.5
Static - 4.8
Subterranean - 4.3
Hydro - 4.6
Justice - 5.2
Labyrinth - 5.0
Crimson - 4.9
Trespass - 4.7
Freak - 4.8
Promise - 4.6
Combat - 4.1
Progeny - 4.0
Nemesis - 4.0
Noir - 3.6
Prototype - 3.4
Phantom - 4.0

SEASON 7

Bizarro - 5.1
Kara - 4.6
Fierce - 4.8
Cure - 5.1
Action - 4.7
Lara - 4.3
Wrath - 4.6
Blue - 4.5
Gemini - 3.8
Persona - 3.8
Siren - 4.0
Fracture - 3.7
Hero - 3.8
Traveler - 3.4
Veritas - 3.8
Descent - 3.5
Sleeper - 3.6
Apocalypse - 3.6
Quest - 4.0
Arctic - 3.8

SEASON 8

Odyssey - 4.4
Plastique - 4.1
Toxic - 4.0
Instinct - 4.1
Commitment -4.2
Prey - 4.2
Identity - 4.2
Bloodline - 4.5
Abyss - 3.6
Bride - 4.2
Legion - 4.3
Bulletproof - 3.8
Power - 4.2
Requiem - 3.9
Infamous - 3.5
Turbulence - 3.3
Hex - 3.7
Eternal - 3.8
Stilleto - 3.0
Beast - 3.2
Injustice - 3.4
Doomsday - 3.1
apeygirl
Wow. Doomsday was actually second worst to Stillett-Ho. After the fact, I get it, but who knew going in how truly shitty it would be?

Is there any info on whether viewers went up or down on the halfway mark?
wirebiter
but who knew going in how truly shitty it would be?


All the noncasual viewers west of the eastern time zone?
Firebunny
mykka, thank you so much for posting those numbers. Now I want to make a graph. Wonder if I can.
EllyF
You know what's interesting about this season-- no big spikes. It was flat for a while, then slowly crashed and burned. But nothing really excited people enough to tune in en masse. Not Supergirl, not the Legion, not the League. And definitely not the "death of Superman" (which wasn't, but I don't think most of us saw that coming). It's like a certain number of us keep tuning in dutifully, but no one beyond the really dedicated fans sees anything that makes them think, "Oh, I should really watch Smallville this week."
Old Juan
Looking at all the seasons ratings across the board its pretty interesting to see just how many viewers this show has lost. Really those season eight numbers are pathetic on the whole especially when looking at past seasons. It really makes one wonder how the people who make this show can continue to justify the overall storyline direction when the numbers continue to support that people are abandoning ship.

Now with Smallville on the Friday Night Death Slot, its going to take a bigger hit. I tell you if Brian and Kelly had any integrity they'd do the right thing and end Smallville with season nine.
Bkwurm
It looks like Smallville sheds an average of a million viewers by the end of their seasons. So if season 9 follows suit, we'll probably start up around the high 3 millions and slip to the high 2 millions by season end. Or maybe this will be the season of exodus like the end of 2 going into season 3 where a million were shed off the top.

Then we might be looking at starting the season with mid to high 2 million and ending in the mid to high one million range...though are there any shows that are that low?
Firebunny
I made graphs!

Smallville Ratings per Episode
It's hard to make sense out of it, but it gives an idea of trends.

To compare numbers here's the ratings put into a table

And just for fun, Average Ratings per Episode per Season
Bkwurm
Firebunny, your graphs are addictive.

Taking seasonal averages from each year I came up with the percentage the ratings went up or down season to season.

2nd (+) 21%
3rd (-) 28%
4th (-) 10%
5th (+) 6%
6th (-) 15%
7th (-) 9%
8th (-) 7%

The last five years (starting with the season 4 info) the show has gone down an average of 7% and if we suppose that season 9 will also average 7% lower than season 8, then we are looking at an average of 3.58 million viewers per episode which means in my book, Smallville would get it's season 10.

Just averaging the last three years (6 and on) it's gone down an average 10%, yada yada yada, that would make season 9 average at 3.47 million which is still probably too good of numbers by Dawn's standards.

Here's hoping for a drastic average drop next season(Season 3, I'm looking at you). After all, statistics can't take into account accelerated viewer apathy.

Thing is, even if Smallville drops in viewership by 30% we are still looking at 2.7 million. Is that still too high?
CantThinkUpName
Thing is, even if Smallvill drops in viewership by 30% we are still looking at 2.7 million. Is that still too high?
I don't know. I still think Dawn was talking out of her ass about getting more than 2 million = Season 10. I think it's too early to take into account all factors involved. I think 3.47 might be too high for Season 9 however. With the exception of something major being announced, I doubt the season premiere will get much higher than 3.5 million.
SaveLevi
Thanks for all the work, guys. I'll just stick to the complaining while you do all the heavy lifting, yes?

I think at this point, if PS *reallly* want to continue this for the sole person of hanging onto their paychecks, some kind of shake up needs to go down, and fast. And not some copout bullshit like the Henry Olsen debaucle either--it needs to be something really big that actually draws viewers back. IMO, it's clear that the ICONIC train has not really worked out in light of the crap ratings, and I also highly doubt that the show is going to attract any new viewers as long as the name isn't changed to L&C or something of the like. So for me, that means that SV needs to work on luring back the audience it lost over the last few years by moving to realign itself with the series canon of old. The show was once rich with emotion and poignancy and focused on building characterizations and relationships. There needs to be a return to this. The lightswitches have got to stop and there has to be some payoff to the arcs that people remember and might come back to see wrapped up.

I don't want to see S10 by any means, but if I were looking to prolong this as much a possible, I'd stick to the history and look at what the early seasons did that is no longer being done.
kaly123
EllyF - It's like a certain number of us keep tuning in dutifully, but no one beyond the really dedicated fans sees anything that makes them think, "Oh, I should really watch Smallville this week."
More like "Oh really!?! Smallville is STILL on? What crazy whack shit are they upto now?". Then after viewing the episode after the bizarrely good one state, "Screw it, glad I stopped watching regularly."
Strikera0
Wow. Smallville once averaged nearly 8 million viewers per episode and now they are down to half of those viewers. There are surely tons of factors contributing to this, but I am sure that one of the main reasons is that the show has gotten rid of nearly all the characters the fanbase was attached to. Clark (Tom Welling) and Chloe (Allison Mack) are the only remains of the core cast and while some of the new additions were quite good I can understand if people don't love Henry, Tess or Lois as much as they did Lex, Pete or Ma and Pa Kent.
kaly123
I'm for sure the people at CW headquarters justify their existence by using apologist excuses about the changes in demographics in the last 10yrs watching live TV and how the internet is changing the way people get their entertainment delivered to them. Non-the-less, SV is probably going to reach down to the level of Internet series or downloads by S10, that are only considered hits in the 1-2million range like Ricky Gervais' podcasts. Otherwise, a season at 3.5M max compared to the ratings of the Gilmore Girls/etc at 2-3M allows for SV to keep eeking out a putrid existence.

ETA - The ratings during the first 5 seasons were during the WB years. The WB was a stronger network until lumped with UPN and then Dawn the dumbass got reigns heading the CW to make the loser programming decisions. Combined with late PS3 last minute powerplay f'ups to extend the seasons for their pocket's and it's tanking is fully explained.

eta2 - like others have said the trying to save money by sloughing off key characters based on money and writers unable to write stories to believably include them, like Ma & Pa Kent, Lionel & Lex, just to end up keeping weak performers for their iconicity like ED!Lois or even the Kara actress helped weave a tale of failed fortune.
Chiriru
It looks like Smallville sheds an average of a million viewers by the end of their seasons. So if season 9 follows suit, we'll probably start up around the high 3 millions and slip to the high 2 millions by season end. Or maybe this will be the season of exodus like the end of 2 going into season 3 where a million were shed off the top.


Well let's be fair to SV here too. Their best ratings in s1 and s2 was when Gilmore Girls gave them a lead in; they were the 8pm show. Also remember going in s2, Smallville was played twice a week that entire summer on Mondays and Tuesdays (so a lot of people started following it.) For the rest of the series, they've been at 7pm; in s3 and s4 they lead in Angel; right before s4 started they also went into syndication on ABC Family. In S5 was their first Thursday for the WB, and while it didn't move the network roll over definately limited how many people watched them. S6-S8 it's been on Thursdays for the CW at 7pm, and it sounds like s9 will be Fridays at 7pm followed by a rerun of ANTM.

The issue, IMO, far more than having a TERRIBLE FINALE (cause it was) - is that SV really doesn't go with time slot changes well. The only one that seemed to do okay was s5 and that was a heavilly promoted go out with a bang mentality from the WB about how this was the seasons to watch as Clex were breaking up and Clark was growing up.

Does anyone suspect Dawn doing that for Friday night SV? I really doubt it.

I think at this point, if PS *reallly* want to continue this for the sole person of hanging onto their paychecks, some kind of shake up needs to go down, and fast. And not some copout bullshit like the Henry Olsen debaucle either--it needs to be something really big that actually draws viewers back. IMO, it's clear that the ICONIC train has not really worked out in light of the crap ratings


Exactly, and they need to convince people to move with them to Friday nights. S5's big spike was from paying off all these set up things; Chloe goes to the DP, Clark "becomes a man", Clana's real chance, Lex and him being done for realz, et cetera. It tapped right back into SV canon and SV things and people watched. KB give me the feeling Almiles never did even at their worst - in that these people clearly don't remember the Pilot which is the biggest mistake ever when we're watching the core four grow up aka their journey.

ETA: The ratings for Justice, Traveler and Veritas are not on here. Justice I think was the high of s6 so that could really effect the averages there.
kaly123
in that these people clearly don't remember the Pilot which is the biggest mistake ever when we're watching the core four grow up aka their journey.

Because it's moved ON, like Chloe, and now it's time for something different and reinvent the reinvention of Superman back to the mythos iconicity wagon.
mykka
Sv has lost 2 of its major characters: Lana and Lex, both of which have their devoted fanbases, and Lionel, Martha and Jonathan, who added a lot to the show and were liked by most people. Its expected that the show will crash and burn.

Guys I've added the missing episodes:

Season 6

Justice - 5.2

Season 7

Traveler - 3.4
Veritas - 3.8
EllyF
Justice - 5.2


Huh, I'd thought Justice got better ratings than that. Still, looks like it had the best ratings of the season. And that was what I was noticing-- that "big" episodes like that used to pull extra people in, but now they don't seem to. I think the only viewers left are the diehards, who'll tune in to watch either steaming crap or sparkling diamonds.
mykka
Yeah, Justice was the highest rated episode of Season 6. Season 6 had steady ratings between 4.5 and 5.2 million, but it all fell apart with the episode Combat and then onwards.

Huh, I'd thought Justice got better ratings than that. Still, looks like it had the best ratings of the season. And that was what I was noticing-- that "big" episodes like that used to pull extra people in, but now they don't seem to. I think the only viewers left are the diehards, who'll tune in to watch either steaming crap or sparkling diamonds.


I think diehards and Clois fans will keep tuning in. Perhaps some Chloe fans to see how her storyline ends. No one else seems to care.
Firebunny
ETA: The ratings for Justice, Traveler and Veritas are not on here. Justice I think was the high of s6 so that could really effect the averages there.
I went and got those numbers from K-site, so they're included in my graphs and averages.

But I think you make a good point about how night and time really effect the ratings. That Smallville did better on Tuesdays is interesting. And explains some of the dramatic drop off between 2 and 3.

KB give me the feeling Almiles never did even at their worst - in that these people clearly don't remember the Pilot which is the biggest mistake ever when we're watching the core four grow up aka their journey.
Well, they didn't officially come out and say it, but they rebooted the series this season and changed what it was about. I think for people who fell in love with the concept of Smallville it was hard to watch the series we fell in love with just disappear for a vastly inferior knock off with the same name.
SaveLevi
Well, they didn't officially come out and say it, but they rebooted the series this season and changed what it was about.

Responding in All Seasons.
apeygirl
I think for people who fell in love with the concept of Smallville it was hard to watch the series we fell in love with just disappear for a vastly inferior knock off with the same name.


Well put, Firebunny. That's exactly the problem. Last season was a departure, but this season has been nothing but a reboot. And not in a good way.
ScrappyTheOwl
Well let's be fair to SV here too. Their best ratings in s1 and s2 was when Gilmore Girls gave them a lead in; they were the 8pm show.

Smallville out-rated Gilmore Girls constantly. Gilmore Girls' peak was, what, just barely over 5 million viewers? It's funny, actually - Gilmore Girls first season was the year before Smallville premiered, and GG was pretty low-rated its first season. Then the second season Gilmore Girls perked up something like 1.5 million viewers when paired with Smallville.

Gilmore Girls only averaged 5ish million viewers for the two seasons it was paired with Smallville; after, GG dropped back down closer to its season 1 levels. If anything, Smallville helped Gilmore Girls by bringing more attention to the WB's tuesday night line-up.

(Oh, in case anyone would like a link, GG's averages can be found here and you can compare it to the Smallville charts here.)
Bkwurm
Gilmore Girls was running directly against Friends and Sienfield. Against that competition, Gilmore Girls was doing good. Plus Gilmore Girls got critical aclaim pretty much the whole time it was on (even when it faltered) so I don't think it's fair to say Gilmore Girls didn't do anything for Smallville. I know it's why I ended up watching Smallville.
ScrappyTheOwl
I hated Gilmore Girls with the fiery of a thousand suns, so I will admit I'm biased, but. Numbers don't lie, man. Apart from total viewers, Gilmore Girls and Smallville had much different demographic numbers - those two shows just never really appealed to the same people, for the most part.

I mean, go back and look at the night of Smallville's series premiere, 10/18/2001:
According to Nielsen Media Research, the 68-minute premiere of the critically acclaimed "Smallville" (9:00-10:08 p.m.) attracted the largest audience ever for a series premiere on the WB (8.35 million viewers) -- outdrawing ABC's comedies and Fox's "Love Cruise" to finish third for the hour.

It also bagged the best 18-49 rating for a WB series premiere (3.8 rating, 9 share) as well as the best score for any episode of any series in the WB's history among adults 18-34 (4.5/12), men 18-34 (5.0/14) and men 18-49 (3.9/10).

The WB's "Gilmore Girls" (5.99 million, 2.4/6 in adults 18-49) also did well, improving in several categories from its strong second season premiere a week earlier. [not quoted directly, but also listed in the article, GG's A18-34 rating: 2.8/8, GG's W18-34 rating: 3.7]

[source]

Smallville's audience was, as it is now, mostly male. Gilmore Girls pretty much only did well in young female demos. Smallville did fantastic males and mediocre in females; GG's male demos were so small they were practically not there.

Sorry for the trip down memory lane! Looking at old numbers makes me so nostalgic.

Gilmore Girls was running directly against Friends and Sienfield.

I'm... really confused. Friends aired on Thursdays (while GG aired on Tuesdays) and Seinfield ended years before Gilmore Girls was even on the air.
Firebunny
Numbers don't lie, man.
Numbers lie all the time. My father taught statistics and he used to like to say, "There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics." Basically, you can manipulate numbers to prove any point you want.

But I can't weigh in on the GG/SV debate as I never watched a full episode of Gilmore Girls and I never cared enough about it to look up any information on it.
ScrappyTheOwl
Numbers lie all the time. My father taught statistics and he used to like to say, "There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics." Basically, you can manipulate numbers to prove any point you want.

Ahaha. I'm a computer scientist who happened to take a lot of statistics in college, so yes, I've heard that many times. :D Which is why I rather enjoy using statistics. :D

I don't know how you can really lie about the ages and genders of people sitting in front of their TV screens, though. Nielsen calculates ratings the same way every single night, which means they're consistently representing the data in the same way, which prevents the data from being skewed in such a way that is more beneficial to them. (Though I would concede that Nielsen's sampling procedures are severely flawed, and DO the skew the data.)

(Apart from that, Gilmore Girls and Smallville having very different audiences shouldn't surprise anyone, right? I thought the reasons why would be obvious...)
lovesflicks
I've often wondered if the ratings drop over the seasons was partly due to the fact that the origin story hasn't really been told yet. Clark Kent, over eight seasons, is kinda still where he was at during season one. People are/were getting impatient to see a progression of a sort, you know?

Instead, SV introduced Gossip Girlish melodrama and made Lana Lang, a secondary character at best, the main focus. That is not what people wanted to see.

That's why dragging out the show for another season or maybe two is just madness. It's becoming a show that will have just minimal ratings, especially on Fridays. It's becoming a show that no one is interested in anymore.

I can see SV getting piss poor reviews and ratings like 2 million, maybe even lower, and still being on the CW. Because all the other CW shows, save for SPN, are tanking and not taking off. If they had, SV could then die without the CW itself falling apart.

It's a Catch 22. If the CW cancels this, it could go under because it's a flagship show. But if they don't, it will go on and on like the Energizer bunny.
Bkwurm
Gilmore Girls was running directly against Friends and Sienfield.

I'm... really confused. Friends aired on Thursdays (while GG aired on Tuesdays) and Seinfield ended years before Gilmore Girls was even on the air.


I'm probably wrong about Seinfeld, (or Sienfield as I typed, ha!) but the 1st season of Gilmore Girls was aired Thursday nights. That's how I found it, when there was a Friends rerun and I was flipping channels.

But I can't weigh in on the GG/SV debate as I never watched a full episode of Gilmore Girls and I never cared enough about it to look up any information on it.


There was something about the language of that show that just sucked me in until I was hooked on the characters. (Plus almost everyone was a great actor) But then, I really like the old fast talking movies from the 30's and 40's and casts loaded with quirky characters.

Gilmore Girls typically was the 2nd or 3rd highest rated show on the WB (Just what kind of deal with the Devil did Seventh Heaven make anyway?) and as a show that gave me far more happiness than disappointment, (The CW getting their mitts on it being tied IMO to my greatest disappointments) I have to stick up for it

Apart from total viewers, Gilmore Girls and Smallville had much different demographic numbers - those two shows just never really appealed to the same people, for the most part.


And yet Gilmore Girls was used to help launch both Smallville and Supernatural. Hell, GG gave Supernatural one of it's Winchester brothers. Respect the Gilmore!!! (Or we shall overwhelm you with pop culture, hot and grumpy dinner owners, and the most expressive acting (Horray for Lauren Graham!) since Allison Mack.

Ok, yeah, I'm getting off topic.

The real reason that Smallville's numbers have been going down is most shows always start shedding viewers for a multitude of reasonings as they get older and for Smallville, I think the number one reason is it constantly makes promises on greatness and most of the time just craps all over expectations.

The bigger question should be what are people sticking around to watch?

Me, I had my Chlark love then my belief in Chlois, then my hope for Chlois, then belief, then wish, then anything to sustain the dream, then the Chloe/Davis stuff (such great actors together!) and now finally I'm not sure what I have left, which is why I'm still not sure if I'm watching next year.
ScrappyTheOwl
I'm probably wrong about Seinfeld, (or Sienfield as I typed, ha!) but the 1st season of Gilmore Girls was aired Thursday nights.

It's a good thing I was talking about GG post-season 1, when it was aired with Smallville. ;) Gilmore Girls aired on Tuesdays at 8pm every other season. Which was indeed better for the show, since its season 1 ratings were very poor.
Gilmore Girls typically was the 2nd or 3rd highest rated show on the WB (Just what kind of deal with the Devil did Seventh Heaven make anyway?)

Slight factual correction: saying it was typically 2nd-highest is rather inaccurate, since it was 2nd for the network just one year.

Gilmore Girls:
2nd for WB: 2004-2005
3rd for WB: 2001-2002, 2002-2003, 2005-2006
5th for WB: 2003-2004
5th for CW: 2006-2007
8th for WB: 2000-2001 (this is what I mean about GG being low-rated in its first season - it just barely got renewed!)

Smallville, in comparison:
2nd for WB: 2001-2002, 2002-2003, 2003-2004, 2005-2006
2nd for CW: 2008-2009
3rd for WB: 2004-2005
3rd for CW: 2006-2007, 2007-2008

Hrmm, it's actually kind of interesting that Smallville's never - not once! - been lower than 3rd for its network.
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