I'm glad that Doomsday had low ratings. The episode deserved no less.

It is SO late for this now. That would maybe do good for Smallville if they announced this in the end of Season 2. Season 3 would have been perfect for wrapping the story up, moving it to Metropolis and ending the show.

And, as much as I hate Battlestar Galactica for an epic fail that their finale was, Smallville is no match for it in terms of quality. Whatever they announce will not improve their efforts to make show watcheable in any way.
With Smallville everyone who cared about quality has left the audience years ago. Those who remain will most likely watch 2-3 seasons more.

so you're saying Lana is the reason this show got renewed? I bet the Clanaers are pissed!

This was mentioned previously in the thread, & I think the ratings/demo info supports this theory, IMO. Smallville seems to have a core audience, consisting of viewers who watch no matter what. And in addition to that core, a segment who have stopped watching, yet return to see the conclusion of their fav's story. (Hence the boost for Lana's last arc.) The epic shitting on Chloe's character is driving away long time Chloe fans, IMO. Nois does not bring in new viewers, & skews the oldest demo, according to the numbers. Basically, Smallville is again losing part of their remaining core audience. Not surprising, since the crapping on Chloe/no payoff, has surpassed redundant/ridiculous levels - Nois & Clark? done in the 90's.

I'm so glad the ratings and reactions for the finale are so bad.

I am too but I think if they blame the ratings and the reactions on the Jimmy/Henry stuff then Chlois become much much less likely to happen JMO (if this was a test run to see reactions etc..)

I don't see how they can blame the ratings on the content of the episode when no one knew it was going to have the Jenry twist. And the problem with the Jenry thing is more that it came out of nowhere. Had it been built up to, I think people would have accepted it. So IMHO, it's not a reasonable thing for them to judge the likely reaction to Chlois on. That doesn't mean they won't, of course, but it's really not a fair assessment.

Word. You can't blame people turning off their television sets on their Psychic Cleo belief they were going to pull a Chlois switcheroo on the wrong character. Bad ratings are the result of lack of interest going into the episode based on buzz, promos, promotion, or if I had to wager the recent article(s) informing who wasn't going to die two days before the finale out of the heads of the show. Could of really hurt and killed a good chunk of the suspense the previous two episodes were building off on imo. I'm really not at all surprised by the numbers.

But my question, if the following season stays firmly at these low numbers like the finale, and stilleto will the show get green lighted for god forbid season ten?

ITA I can't understand using a Jenry BS as preview for audience acceptance of a Chlois. Chlois has been written all through since S1. Why test when a guestimate 1/4 of the loyal watchers see Chloe as SV's preliminary Lois at minimum. This Jenry is just one episode and the anvils about him not being who he said he was was barely insinuating another Jimmy in the offing somewhere. If anything suddenly bringing Nois back as the real ILL to replace Chloe in homage like kid Jimmy is going to replace Jenry sounds more the leftover S2's(formerly PS3) plans for a future S10 with S9 ending.

Actually you could make the argument that it was because they weren't doing Chlois made people not watch the episode. Think about it, with E!Online spoiling ED coming back, and the trailer with Lois going poof, Chloisers knew she wasn't the one dying and figured what's the point, it'll just be a copout. So you can make the argument that it's because they exposed they weren't going that route with the finale that lead to the low ratings.

I think Berman said it best: if it wasn't on the CW it'd be canceled. So, what would it take for the CW to say "no thank you" to S10 of Smallville --- because they are getting a full S9 unless the CW folds or the ratings drop into the 1M's? Seriously, they are that desperate. My answer: it gets canceled if the cost of each episode is more than the advertising. Well that's going to be tougher than maybe some realize.

Since I love to play with numbers I've played around a bit --- this is NOT scientific, just spit-balling here:
I haven't done a commercial count but I think we could look up old numbers and do a calculation on how much they have to charge for a commercial and how many commercials they run. Just playing with numbers: If they used to get $50K for a 30-second spot, and they run 20 mins of commercials (or 40 30-second spots) then the show generates nearly $2M each time it runs. Production costs at ~$1.5M (roughly... and that could be an old number) and you get a CW profit of $.5M an episode which equates to $11M a year (22 episodes). Knock off some promotion effort (say the equivalent of 5 30-sec spots in a week -- and keeping the "lost" revenue at $50K per spot) and it's down to $5500. That may be too much for the promotion costs but you get my thoughts.

Now with a lousy finale, how much do you think the CW is going to get advertisers to shell out for the show for each episode? Wht if the value went down to $30K pre 30-second slot. Well, at $1.5M an episode to produce, they'd be looking at total loss of $6.6M in a year. So..production must be no more than $1.2M each episode to just break even if the advertising goes down to $30K per slot (and that's with no promotion by the CW --- except "online"). Now I'm not sure WHO gets ITunes dollars so that could be an important "adder" but I imagine 30K per episode is the bottom number the CW/WB can afford before the production is just undo-able. With Welling and Durance negotiating new contracts, I think we're going to get more cartoon SFx.


Bottom line: Let's see what the advertising price is for the CW after the May upfronts. If they are at the $30K/30-sec mark then S10 looks in jeopardy in my opinion because it's not a money maker for Dawn.

I remember Steven Deknight saying that it costs around 3 million to do an episode, depending on the SFX.

There's no way it'll go that low - Veronica Mars was getting nearly $40k per ad on the CW. This year, IIRC, Smallville's ad rates were nearly $60k/ad on average. I'd wager they're somewhere around $55-60k this coming year. All depends on how Smallville did in C3 ratings this year, since that's what the advertisers are paying for!

It is a very good thing to consider the advertising dollars earned (though don't forget the ad revenue for repeats! it's money too, and a bunch of it!), but it's important to remember the majority of shows on television recoup a lot of their production cost via other venues - DVD sales [which Smallville does VERY well in, better than any other show on the CW, and a lot of other networks, for that matter], domestic syndication profits, international syndication profits, and so on. Those are all direct profits for the show, whereas some of the advertising dollars are used to support the CW as a whole.

I think the bottom line is that as long as Smallville's profitable and one of their more solid performers, the CW will keep it. They can't afford to take a chance on too many new shows at once, especially when their new shows keep bombing.

Out of curiosity, has any fan ever done a list of eps by rating, highest to lowest or vice versa? I'm curious to see that. I know bottom three is Stiletto, Prototype, Doomsday, but what's fourth, etc...

Interesting question! I'm sure a list is out there somewhere. I looked on Wikipedia and it turns out they have cited references for 3.14 Obsession through 8.22 Doomsday but nothing for episodes prior.

But assuming the season 1 or 2 episodes all beat the season three low (4.18 Memoria @ 4.32 million) and that the data provided on Wikipedia is accurate a little bit of copy and paste into excel and a sort yields the following.

Smallville's 46 worst rated episodes as of season eight

Rank/Total Viewers (millions)/Season.Episode #/Title/Author
1 3.10 8.19 Stiletto Caroline Dries
2 3.16 8.22 Doomsday Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders
3 3.23 8.20 Beast Genevieve Sparling
4 3.39 8.21 Injustice Al Septien & Turi Meyer
5 3.43 6.21 Prototype Steven S. DeKnight
6 3.44 7.14 Traveler Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
7 3.49 8.16 Turbulence Al Septien & Turi Meyer
8 3.55 8.09 Abyss Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
9 3.56 8.15 Infamous Caroline Dries
10 3.59 6.20 Noir Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders
11 3.61 7.16 Descent Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
12 3.62 7.17 Sleeper Caroline Dries
13 3.67 7.12 Fracture Caroline Dries
14 3.71 7.09 Gemini Caroline Dries
15 3.79 8.17 Hex Bryan Miller
16 3.80 7.13 Hero Aaron & Todd Helbing
17 3.81 7.10 Persona Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
18 3.81 7.18 Apocalypse Al Septien & Turi Meyer
19 3.84 8.18 Eternal Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders
20 3.85 4.17 Onyx Steven S. DeKnight
21 3.85 7.20 Arctic Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
22 3.85 8.12 Bulletproof Bryan Miller
23 3.86 7.15 Veritas Kelly Souders & Brian Peterson
24 3.88 6.19 Nemesis Caroline Dries
25 3.93 8.14 Requiem Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
26 3.94 5.18 Fragile Todd Slavkin & Darren Swimmer
27 3.96 4.21 Forever Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders
28 3.98 6.18 Progeny Genevieve Sparling
29 3.99 7.19 Quest Holly Harold
30 4.01 7.11 Siren Kelly Souders & Brian Peterson
31 4.05 8.03 Toxic Caroline Dries
32 4.07 6.17 Combat Turi Meyer & Al Septien
33 4.11 8.04 Instinct Al Septien & Turi Meyer
34 4.14 6.22 Phantom Todd Slavkin & Darren Swimmer
35 4.15 8.06 Prey Kelly Souders & Brian Peterson
36 4.18 8.02 Plastique Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
37 4.18 8.05 Committed Bryan Miller
38 4.18 8.10 Bride Al Septien & Turi Meyer
39 4.21 4.11 Unsafe Steven S. DeKnight & Jeph Loeb
40 4.21 8.13 Power Todd Slavkin & Darren Swimmer
41 4.24 5.17 Void Holly Harold
42 4.29 8.11 Legion Geoff Johns
43 4.31 6.09 Subterranean Caroline Dries
44 4.31 7.06 Lara Don Whitehead & Holly Henderson
45 4.32 3.19 Memoria Alfred Gough & Miles Millar
46 4.32 8.07 Identity Todd Slavkin & Darren Swimmer

Re: Worst rated eps...
Thanks for posting that. It's interesting that 20 are from S8. SPN has had good boosts though this year - holding onto most of SV viewers. The demos are what CW and co. are really going to be interested in though, IMO. so I don't know how accuratly it can be sorted because of that. Interesting to see the episode list though.

Wow. This is why I really don't get when people go on about this season being so great and the ICONIC reset being such ratings gold. Looking at how much of S8 makes up the bottom eps, it clearly isn't.

The ratings of Failsday, IMO, canot be blamed on the pure suck it generated. Sure, it was Smallville, but there was no way that anyone could have prediccted things would have gone so very, very wrong.

OTOH, I think the real impact of this mess is going to be felt in the fall. Knowing the crack monkeys who created this mess are now running the whole fracking show does not exactly get me excited about the new season. I think the ratings for the first few episodes of season nine are going to be real intresting.

Personally I think it was generated by the over promotion. Like Director's Cuts that gave the fight scene away, Trailers that revealed the deaths, interviews saying who's back and all. They spoiled it in the last few days before it.


This was the first season with the new showrunners, my guess with how low the ratings have been this season, mixed with possible decline in DVD sales, more backlash from media/fans over the finale, and possible Not so warm reception at Comic Con (Give them hell whoever goes!)

My guess a S10 won't be in the cards at least for Dawn's POV.

I wouldn't doubt that they'd cut promotion to SV. I mean, they made like special Clois trailers for what?

So expect less promos for SV, trailers that are barely shown, and if the Premier and couple episodes after produces poor ratings like the Finale, Dawn will announce it's SV's last season.

I really would love to see what mindset Dawn is in now that the finale actually went down instead of what normally happens when it's the finale episode of the season.

Most people even if they haven't been all up on episodes in the season usually tune in at least to see how it ends.

I know I missed a handful of episodes of Heroes in the later half but watched the season finale anyway to see how it was going to go all down.

But since SV is not produced in house, but by the WB those are revenues that do really benefit the CW, do they ? I mean, obviously if those numbers are really big then the production company might offer SV to a lower price to the CW (ala T:SCC).

However, once SV is not profitable through commericals (as SueB described) I don't see how it can get a S10.

The show is profitable through advertising revenue, as I was trying to explain.

The production company/studio for Smallville is Warner Brothers Television (and the CW is half-owned by Warner Brothers, remember, so it actually IS in-house) - they aren't getting the full cost of the episode for each episode the CW airs. As I was trying to explain, the television norm is that a lot of the production cost is recouped via other means for the studio (dvd sales, etc.). The CW pays what's called a "licensing fee" in order to air the episodes. This licensing fee is much less than the actual cost of the episode. Warner Brothers has to foot that particular bill, and the only way they can get it back is by a) the means mentioned before, and b) increasing the licensing fee gradually by season.

Which is why comparing the episode cost to the advertising revenue is not a good idea. One should instead compare the licensing fee to the advertising revenue. If you want to look at the total episode cost, you need to look at ALL sources of revenue for both the network and the studio.

Except that up until the last few episodes, this show was holding steady year to year. The DVD sales will definitely take a hit, which is why I think the producers need to get out and do some damage control. If they have a larger plan that they implemented after the renewal and it altered how they were going to end the season then they need to get out there and tell the fans that.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I forgot about the CW being half owned by WB, which makes it, in fact, an in house production. This makes things a bit easier I suppose..

Every episode since Stiletto the ratings have been going up and then plunged for the finale?

Meaning something happens between Injustice and Doomsday that drove fans away.

It's the promotion in between that caused it's decline.

It could also be that people hated "Injustice" for some reason.

I expect DVD sales to fall a lot. This is the first year episodes have been available on iTunes, isn't it? Given the schizophrenic nature of the season, I imagine many people will do what I've done-- download the episodes that appeal to me and decide against buying the DVD set because there are too many episodes I don't want to watch. I wonder how that will affect the calculations? Might the download sales compensate for lowered DVD sales?

I'm very curious to see how the DvD's do for this season and if they correlate with the low ratings. I visited K-Site for the first time in a long time and I got the vibe that the finale managed to leave just about every camp unhappy. The people tuning in for the Dooms smackdown only got the 5 second brawl. Mythos people got Clark stalling again. Cloiser's didn't get the promised all will be forgiven moment. In addition I've read that most are furious she was gone at the 20 minute mark. Chlaviser's got shat on. Chlarkers got about the same pile we've gotten since Season 6. Davis fans got the character that struggled to not be a murderer become one over a girl. The whole thing was just a mess.

If I wouldn't get arrested for it I would make up a sticker of Admiral Ackbar screaming "IT'S A TRAP!" to put on all the Season 8 DvD's at my local retailers. I realize why they couldn't put Clark and Dooms on the cover together. They might get sued for false advertising.

The sad thing is that I think the show runners are really missing the boat on the ratings. It seems obvious to me that the more they jam the round peg that is the show into the square hole that is mythos the more people tune out. It's almost like they forgot that what drew people to Smallville in the first place was that it was a unique new take on the myth. I always look at Season 5 which regardless of if you liked Season 5 or not you have to admit that it rebounded in the ratings. In that first half there were a lot of parallels with the first season as far as where people were in relation to each other. Clark and Lana were doing their will they/won't they. Clark and Lex were dancing around each other. Clark being a somewhat reluctant hero. Chloe being the reporter/best friend. Lois so far removed from anything important that she could have been Pete. It was different venues with the DP in lieu of The Torch but other than that you felt a little bit at home.

But the finale always is meant to get boost and is more promoted then the episode before it. Prototype was before Phantom but there was a boost for the finale.

It wasn't until I saw the trailer for the finale where i got nervous that what's been set up may fall though. Then the DC was the fight leaving me wonder if that's all it'll be or is round two in the building.

Then the interviews basically exposed Jimmy and Lois's fate it left the finale uninteresting anymore and drove people away.

I wonder if the shake up in the other networks would mean for SV's ratings next year.

My name is Earl was cancelled, and Ugly Betty is moved to Friday, UB is being replaced with a new sci-fi show Flash Forward.

I just wonder how SV will fair competing with those two shows now gone.

I'm calling it, DVD sales are going to be a joke. Along with all fanbases upset and add in the fact that most people are still upset that Witwer isn't even on the cover. Add to it that people are sitting and stewing over the finale. Itunes is also going to make a serious dent in those sales, as mentioned upthread, I only downloaded episodes that I wanted there's no need to buy the DVD boxed set.

Hope the promo guys got a golden card under their sleeve because I think with even the other networks shifting their Thursday night, lots of Smallville fans are starting to look for another Thursday night show. IMO.

I don't know. I'm sure they'll be down simply because this is a long running series, but the DVDs aren't out until September. That's a lot of time for people to calm down and possibly forgive depending on S9 spoilers. I know I'm buying it, anyway. Cover art and a crappy finale aren't enough to stop me from enjoying the rest of the episodes I did like.

It's going to come down to the extra's for me.

I've all but given up on the actors doing commentary anymore but I do wish they'd at least do it for the episodes they direct. I didn't really care for either Power or Injustice but I'd still love to hear AM & TW talk through an episode they directed.

The Legion commentary ought to be fun though.

Maybe they'll have a "Not being Jimmy Olsen" extra.

Hollywood Reporter is indicating Smallville's being replaced on Thursday nights by "Vampire Diaries":



Smallville would apparently be moving to Friday at 8:00. Since Thursday is the big competitive night ("the most lucrative night on television," according to the article), I doubt this bodes well for SV at all if it's true-- sounds like they're getting ready to put it out to pasture. But I could certainly be wrong about that. Also, the article refers to the ninth season as the final one-- whether correctly or not, I have no idea.

Looks like Failsday really tipped the scales against SV. Not that it deserves anything better with the shit it pulled.

Best news this month!

Ugly Betty will be on Friday so this should be interesting.

Friday usually means the death knell. Is it wrong that I'm all excited?

No.

But if this doesn't kill the show, nothing will.

Weren't sites saying the same thing about S8 last year? I think it's just being assumed at this point.

IMO, Best news this year!!

Bitterswete posted a link in the Media thread showing it's not even paired up with a new show, but with a repeat of "America's Next Top Model."

Nope. I felt the same way when I noted the kiss-of-death timeslot. Could freedom be closer than we think?

Coupled with the sad news that Omar's out too, I'm really feeling like it's the end of an era. Guys, I was still in COLLEGE when this show first aired! I'm divorced now with a 4-year-old and still this thing is limping along. So Friday? Yeah, that's bad, and it makes me wonder if it'll even survive the whole season.

The CW puts shows on Fridays that can put up a fight. That's why they moved Smackdown there. That being said, i really hope Season 9 is the last one and they make that perfectly clear to TPTB. For once lets get a season that is planned from the summer and doesn't take steps back the minute the next season is announced. Maybe these news might change Omar's mind? If it is definitely the last one, he might want to wait another year. I really pray that he does.

Maybe in the past, but in this case they're pairing it with a rerun-- pardon me, I mean "encore." Not exactly a powerhouse pairing. Also, since Thursday is "the most lucrative night on television," I think they'd have kept SV there if they thought they could still get advertising bucks for it. The fact that it's been moved seems to me a clear statement that its worth is going down, which, given how much it costs to make, cannot possibly be a good thing for the show.

Boy I hope it doesn't make it through the whole season. It would be so fitting if the show got canceled midway through. I'd personally love to see that happen. That's how bitter "Failsday", the Omar news, and Matt's latest news has made me. God I hope this show tanks big time.

Actually, they moved Smackdown to Friday to sort of isolate it from the rest of the schedule. Because, while the show did well, it didn't do well with the types of viewers the CW was trying to target. Which is why the ultimately let it go once the contract ran out, even though they had to know finding a show that would do well with their target audience on that night would be tough.

I think the CW is of two minds when it comes to moving SV over to Fridays. If it does well, great. (Because all of the networks would like to be stronger on Friday nights.) If it tanks, oh well. After all it's the ninth season. And while the producers over at SV might be thinking a 10th season is all but a done deal, I don't think the CW is so sure.

I am also confused about that. Are they looking to dump it on Fridays so that it will end with Season 9? Or are they looking for a 2 year solution to the Friday night problem? I really hope that they get together and officially announce next season as the last one. That way, they will put all of their energy into making this as big a season as possible. Wishful thinking hey?

Either or. If SV ends up doing great on Fridays, they'll be happy. If SV tanks on Fridays, they won't be that upset about it, because they probably see the show as being at the end of its rope anyway.

The only quibble is them not putting something new (or even Reaper) after SV. It seems strange to imagine them thinking a rerun will help them really turn things around on that night.

Fridays? Burn.

I don't think they'll stop airing the show in the middle, but Fridays? Adam Knight gets his last laugh.

Like I said in an earlier post, Dawn will most likely cut promotion to Smallville. Limit amount of money on advertisement. With moving the show on SV, it basically admitting the show is now in their rear view mirror. They have deemed the show unworthy to be in the Thursday prime-time line up, and have no intention on keeping it around. Having the show on Friday will put it in the "Out of Site out of mind" argument. It's a guarantee rating killer due to people going out for the weekends. Also considering how long the show has been on Thursday unless they promote heavily on the time change, people will tune in on Thursday and go "Guess they got rid of Smallville."

I see S9 as Smallville's last season. Their only hope is not being cancelled in the middle.

However I think Dawn, despite wanting to cut the show off, would honor it with a full season count cause it's been with the Network for so long.

They don't call Friday night the death slot for no reason. That the CW is moving Smallville to Friday says a lot about how they view the shows value and after the crappy ratings for Doomsday I think the message is clear. The CW is putting the show out to pasture. While I don't think it will get canceled mid-season, I don't see how in the hell PS can honestly believe they'll get a tenth season now. They really should start looking at season nine as the last season.