Well, clearly, as a Chlarker I'd just prefer they jettison the other ships and focus on Chlark:-). But what I want isn't what I'm talking about here. I'm saying that the way to keep an aging show going is to hang onto as many fans as you can. You don't do that by saying to one of the two major shipping groups, "You aren't getting what you want. Check out this other ship! See how much chemistry they have!" You do it by continuing to play up both ships. It's not even necessarily a matter of just teasing. They could consummate one ship and then have it break up. They could end with one ship but suggest the other ship will win in the future. I can think of plenty of ways they could have kept Chlarkers around. But going on in interviews about Clois Clois Clois! is not one of those ways.



Alas, PS3 inherited the show from AlMiles, who loved that kind of thing and had already created a badly fractured fandom. I agree that I would have preferred it had they picked a single ship and stuck with it from a long time ago. But it's too late for that. There is already discord within the fandom. By appearing to pick one of the ships, PS3 pretty much told the rest of us to go take a long walk off a short pier.

Again, I'm not saying disgruntled Chlarkers are the sole reason for the drop. There are doubtless numerous reasons, including lousy (almost nonexistent) promotion and the loss of two major characters. What I am saying is that given an almost certain drop in ratings, I think PS3 would have been smart to try to keep around as many fans as possible, not antagonize a large subset of them.



Hurrah!

I agree, I don't want to be strung along either, but they don't have to lie and say Chlark will hook up, cos it's not like Chlark *has* to be romantic to be enjoyable. The friendship is the basis of it. But when they go on and on about how Lois will replace Chloe in Clark's life as his investigative partner, his potential love-interest, his reporter-- essentially the Chlark friendship is gone, so if I don't care for Clois, why would I watch? There is very little that can discourage Clois, because they're "destiny", but with the departure of Lana and Lex, Chlark is an important part of the show and both the characters, and, until I read all the Chlarky spoilers, I felt that the endless Clois pimping meant they were completely junking it. Coupled with my conviction that Chlark WILL happen this year, it just doesn't make any sense.



ITA.

That's actually a bit better than I expected. With numbers like that they might hover right around the 4 mil mark on the front ten and I frankly was unsure if 4 mil was doable this year. Still doesn't seem good enough to justify a season nine but then again I didn't think last year's numbers were good enough to justify season eight.

I thought those were good fast numbers too. They'll surely go up once the DVD numbers are factored in, but for live viewers, I think the network will be happy with a 4.38. And IMO, I think the show did well in setting up stories for the season. As a viewer, I'm interested to see what will happen next and will tune in for that. *shrugs* I look forward to seeing what the final numbers are for "Odyssey."

This said, I was blown away by the Supernatural, *sigh*. I know this isn't the place to discuss it, but man, I'm happy if there's some spill-over to SPN from SV. Although of course, I think SPN can stand on its own, but I guess I'm just hoping those two shows can help each other. And creatively, if SV can look at SPN and maybe push itself, I'd be even happier.

I do agree with this too though, jwm. I think Smallville should've ended at S5, but that's another thread. LOL.

I know some people find ratings boring, but I find them fascinating. It's like gambling and I've always enjoyed looking at odds.

Here's what I posted yesterday.




I think I called this one pretty close. I'm only sorry I didn't post 1.8/5 here because that was what I put down on pifeedback.com on their ratings prediction game for SV.

As I said, I'm not surprised. Justice League episodes always attract viewers who do not regularly watch SV. We see that here when we get first time posters who tell us they watched for their favorite individual heroes. Which as I posted before I think disguises just how big a loss the show will feel from the S8 cast changes and change in direction. I don't think that will be felt until the upcoming weeks when the JL fans are gone and the show once again has to rely on loyal old time viewers. They are not going to get enough new viewers to replace old ones. There is no way I can see that happening. Their best hope is to try to convince long time fans to stick with them and come back for some reason.

As for DVR ratings, we've discussed this before but unless you have in show content advertising, like Stride, the DVR numbers are not going to help the picture. Media buyers usually get prices based on the network delivering a certain number of viewers (generally broken down by demos) for live airings. Getting ad revenue for DVR ratings is hard because people who DVR can ff'd thru commercials. As a media buyer/advertiser, you don't get much bang for your buck out of people watching DVR'd episodes unless as I said you put the advertising inside the actual episode like Clark driving a Toyota truck, chewing Stride gum, watching a Blockbuster video or drinking a Starbucks coffee. I know people like to focus on the total viewer #, but that actually isn't the story here. It's the 1.8, while not good, is not as horrible as it might have been, but again 1) no competition and 2) Justice league fans. I was being conservative in my guesses because I knew there would be a loss bc of the cast and direction changes, but I also knew a lot of that loss would be offset for the premiere because of the JL fans.

Predicting next week is actually the bigger challenge. Two factors going in the premiere's favor (no strong competition and JL) will not be present then. I'm not sure what to imagine.

Heh, you beat me by a hair, I guess. I went with 4.25. If the premier were stronger I'd be fairly confident next week would fall somewhere in the 3.9-4.1 neighborhood. But I didn't think it was that strong. It wasn't terrible either but the trailer for next week didn't peek my attention at all. I'm guessing we'll see a drop of a half mil or so next week. 3.8 million.

Mediaweek has Smallville being viewed last night by 4.38 million

I'm sorry but that's low for Smallville.

The Premiere is usually the highest rated episode unless they do something big, and if they can barely reach 4.5 million, I don't see it improving.

I predict next week will be Mid to High 3 million. and roughly the rest of the episodes.

Relative to what, though? Excepting Arctic (and I don't even remember what it got) I don't think they've been north of 4.38 since Blue. Even Siren barely broke 4 million.

It is low, but given the enormous change in cast it is understandable. And as long as it stays the among the highest rated shows, it won't get an early cancelation.

However, according to thefutoncritic the ratings were, actually, on par with the 2007 season premiere. Especially, the demo rating didn't change. In fact, SV even had a half-hour growth of 5.5% which is a positive sign. On a related note, SN lost 9% of its viewers in the half-hour ratings, but still managed to grow more than 40% in the demo (from 1.2 to 1.7). It is really absurd that people were tuning in into the SV mass of plot-holes while people were tuning out of the awesome premiere of SN.

jwm - Hee. You were v. close, too, absolutely. If I had wanted to hedge my bets, I would have actually done 4.25-4.5 million to be more confident about the guess. I lost on that one since I called a specific number, but I got 1.8 right on another board.



You're calling next week already? Hmmm. I'll have to wait on that. I skipped the premiere myself so I'm going on second hand info and reviews. And I will need to see what people are saying about the competition's premieres next week, before I can guess. Aside from that, I'm trying to decide how much of a bump they got from pure JL fans. I'll give them credit for those choices. They were shrewd moves on their part. I think you and I may be on the same page, imagining it to be about 250,000 which would make the total viewers go down to about 4.15 and 1.6 for that reason alone. But, with JH in the credits and DOOMSDAY coming up, that could keep some of those people around. And there will be some people who missed the premiere only because they didn't see it advertised who will pick it up next week. I'm not sure what number that will be.



Relative to other premieres. Premieres and Finales are in their own categories because there is a good size SV audience that regularly only tunes in for those. I don't get it, but that pattern is clear from looking over the last several seasons that I've been following the ratings. The Spring ratings don't segue into the Fall ratings. Fall ratings will always go up. And as you mentioned above, the second episode almost always (barring something big happening) takes a drop from premieres. How big a drop is the question.

While ratings are reported in half hour increments, they are actually calculated in 10 minute increments. So they count how many people are watching every ten minutes and average it all together to get the 30 minute ratings.

So with a show like Supernatural (the network's last show of the night), after the show ends and the promo is shown, a lot of people change the channel because they don't want to see whatever local programming is next. This is counted as a drop off in viewers (even though the show was officially over when they changed channels), and effects the average for the whole half hour.

That's why shows that air in the 8 and 9 o'clock slots often see an increase in their second half hour. It's often from people tuning in early for the show that comes on after it.

Ahh, thanks for the information Bitterswete. Didn't know that.

The Iconic ship is sinking. I hate this reboot, I really do. I'm glad others decided they weren't on board with the NEW new Adventures of Nois and Clark.

Not according to the CW:


Full article:CW 9/19/08

I figured the premiere would garner between 4 and 4.5 million and sure enough it did. Next week is going to be the real test to see how the show would probably fair for at least the rest of fall.

But isn't the network targeting young women?

The CW's target audience might be young women, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to shout it from the rooftops when they do well with another prized demo.

Ostroff and Co can paint their ratings good aslong as they want.The hard truth is that a repeat of Ugly Betty got more viewers than Smallville's Season Premiere.Also 19% of the usual SV audience left the building.And that's just the beginning.



I think they'd say alot of 3 year old kids watched it just to make the ratings look good for them.I could be wrong but they ditched Smackdown because the male audience didnt fit their target demo so I don't see how males watching SV is a good thing for their advertising plan.

While that's all true, it is only logical that CW will spin the numbers in a positive way if there is a way to do so. And if this way is a ridiculous 5 % increase in a demo that is not necessarily the target audience then so be it.

Reruns of network shows often do better than first runs of CW shows, even when the CW show's ratings are considered outstanding. The same was true for the WB and UPN. I think the only network the CW's ratings could be compared to would be one of equal sized that reached about the same amount of viewers. But since that isn't possible yet (although some other netlets are coming along) you can only compare the ratings of CW shows to the ratings of other CW shows.

As for SV's ratings, they are certainly down by last year, but they are still good by CW standards, especially when compared to other CW show premiered that got way more promotion. But there's no doubt there was a lot of spinning going on in that press release.

IIRC that didnt happen the past 7 years though atleast not with a Season premiere.It also needs to be considered that they didnt even had real competition this week.I guess we get a better picture when the other shows premiere.

I don't know why, but I really dislike it when people are so insincere. I know they're trying to save their jobs and this isn't Enron levels of misrepresentation/manipulation, but I still don't like it when I see it.

Backing up, I wanted to share some info and gossip for people who aren't familiar with the situation. I'm sure most of you know this, but in case some don't, the ONLY reason ratings matter is to the extent they affect how much money media buyers will pay the CW for ads. On the thread, we end up talking about total viewers a lot, but the demo breakdowns which we often don't get are much more important figures especially for The CW.

ABC,NBC, CBS & FOX are like WalMart, they're so big any customer is a good one. The CW has chosen to be like a boutique that only sells women's clothes. The CW president, Dawn Ostroff, announced last year that the CW would exclusively target young women (A18-34). They don't care how many men come in the door, they only want women customers.
http://www.rbr.com/media-news/advertising/...t_schedule.html

SV and Supernatural don't draw enough young women for the CW to care about them. In S6 I noticed the CW's only issued releases when SV did well with young women never about success with young men even though the WB would regularly boast good numbers in that demo. For the longest time I couldn't understand why the CW had this attitude.
But, The WB sold ad time for young people (think Banana Republic/The Gap) vs. The CW which sells ad time in bundles (not tied to one specific show) to the media buyers with minimum guarantees for young women alone (think Ann Taylor). I'm not sure why they chose to do it this way. It may be because they think it's a niche they can dominate and because if they have all their shows target this audience then there is a safety net that if one show doesn't do well, another show may pick up the slack and provide enough young female viewers to reach the minimums they guaranteed to the media buyers and they won't fall into make good situations.

As done mentioned, the reason the CW let WWE on Fridays go despite the show getting good numbers for a netlet in general viewership and among young men was because it didn't attract enough young women. That is how much the CW doesn't care about anything other than attracting young women viewers. http://www.variety.com/article/VR111798048...yid=14&cs=1 http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/07/19/the-cw-w...ows-tca-report/

Given that, the CW press release linked above is a JOKE. They are so fake. The CW doesn't suddenly care about young men or SV. I have no doubt Ostroff would love to get rid of SV (a holdover from the WB whose success she can't claim credit for) as soon as possible, but they have to try to spin the situation to divert attention from their underperforming business plan. Their choice to target only young women isn't working out for them bc 90210 tanked and certainly won't make up for the loss of the Gilmore Girls' female viewership, the Gossip Girl/OTH combo has improved but still isn't close to ANTM ratings and even their big hitter with females, ANTM, has slipped down a lot. They're in big trouble and they have to fight every day in every way possible from looking like a failure bc they're so close to folding.

In May, the WSJ did an article about how the CW stinks and how one of the two major backers may be ready to dump it. (Probably WB) In August, WB and CBS had to write a letter of confidence to affliliates and CW employees to tell them they're still behind the CW.
http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/08/cw_pare...pport_of_ne.php

Why did they do this?
Because the CW affiliates were already making plans for the CW to fold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CW_affiliates
The Tribune Company's affiliates have started changing their call letters/marketing to distance themselves from the CW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIAH_(TV)
And they started looking into buying other programming to air.
http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/06/tribune...y_net_for_s.php

And it doesn't seem like a coincidence that Warner Bros. relaunched TheWB as an online network this month and they're seeing if they can make money putting original content online. An exit strategy?
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-et-we...1,7771292.story

One thing is certain, the CBS/WB "letter of confidence" didn't stop the CW's a sinking ship talk. Entertainment Weekly (also owned by WB's parent TW) brought it up in their Fall TV preview cover story featuring Gossip Girl.



The CW needs a miracle to stay open. Bad press only makes matters worse. I'm sure they dread each morning's Mediaweek.com report on their ratings performance. Too many "Loser" labels could be the final nail in their coffin. That's why you can't rely on what the CW says. They're desperate and spinning everything possible to avoid the ax.

Good finds Massena. That alone will go along way to killing the chances of a season 9. Which is why if the TPTB are smart they should really reconsider this season as more than likely being their last and plan the story arcs accordingly. At this juncture I can't see Smallville being picked up by another network for just one season if the CW actually collapses this year.

Wow, Massena1. That was stuffed to the gills with info and references. Thanks so much.

I was sad to see the WB and the frog disappear, but I won't be sorry to see Dawn get her just desserts. Old Juan is probably correct that SV wouldn't get picked up by another network, but maybe someone would want a shinier-sounding JL or equivalent.

I'm curious-- does the fact that SV is available on iTunes for the first time have anything to do with this situation?

SV is available on iTunes?! Really?

Wait, that's not a good thing! I don't want to spend my money twice on this crap.

I'm sorry, I should have cited a source. See the KSite news page.

While an online network thingie is good, it wouldn't really replace having a presence on TV. And that's what the WB wants. It's why they started a network in the first place, and why they decided to merge with UPN rather than just fold a few years back. Warner Brothers wants to be on TV.

But they definitely aren't happy with how things are going at the CW. They might mostly be trying to maintain a united front for advertisers. But in a Variety article a few months back, some WB execs admitted they didn't like the way the CW was being managed, or the way Warner Brothers shows (with the exception of Gossip Girl) were being treated.

Before the writers strike, in an article about the WB Online, a WB exec also mentioned they were thinking of doing a cable network, similar to what FOX did with FX. (So it would air both new programming and older Warner Brothers shows.) At the time, he made it sound more like something they were just looking into than a definite thing. But I bet they're thinking about it much more seriously now.

Which has me wondering how long it takes to launch a cable network.

With the kind of money and resources that Warner Bros has, it wouldn't take too long. I'd say six months to a year tops which in the entertainment business is considered quick.

Independent and Old Juan - Glad you found the articles interesting.

Elly - I have no idea what prompted that. Unless something is reported in the news, it's pretty much just speculation about what is going on in the corporate offices.



Bitterswete - Yes, I read the same idea/rumor about a WB version of FX. I don't know where I read about the idea. I couldn't find the link in my lj (where I had stored the links to the other news items of interest) so I blew off mentioning it in my post which was uber long already. I don't know how much money it costs to launch a cable network, but I would guess a lot more than the cost of an online presence and cost is a big deal.

My main point was that it is pretty much public knowledge in Hollywood that people at WB are having meetings about what would happen if they back out of the CW and as a result the CW is very motivated to fake enthusiasm over things they don't really care about.

I hesitate to mention this, because I don't know how feasible this would be, but I did wonder if WB decides to dump the CW and launch a big new project either a bigger online network or a cable channel whether they would do SV S9 just to have content for it. Somehow they've cut SV's budget dramatically and if they could do the same for another season then SV's loyal audience carrying over to that new project would make it a bigger asset to them if the price is right. Although what price would be ok would change if they keep all the money in the family. Like you I was thinking about how owning their own tv network was a good idea in principle given WB television studios' successful tv development dept. Having their own venue for shows they produce basically cuts out the middle man and keeps all the money from their products in the family as it were. OTOH, they then also carry the whole burden of the cost alone and sharing a network with CBS had the promise of letting them get what they needed at a half price. It just hasn't turned out well because the CW hasn't done much to benefit WB shows. It's hard to predict what will happen because there are so many variables.

And since the exec mentioned it a year ago, it's possible they've been working on it since then if not before.

I think a WB cable network would be cool, getting to see all the old WB shows in one place. Plus, on a cable net, you don't have to worry as much about a show you like getting canceled after only 2 or 3 eps.



It makes sense to me. Most cable nets have to start from scratch trying to create new shows that will attract an audience. With SV, they'd at least know they had a first-run show with a built in audience.

I don't much care what happens to the CW as long as SV gets to wrap up its story and Kripke gets to finish telling the Winchester's story in the time he needs.

But realistically, if The CW did fold at the end of this season, then Smallville is done. No other network is going to pick the show up for a ninth and final season.

I'd imagine the same for Supernatural. None of the shows on The CW rate well enough to be attractive to another network anyway. I could only see another network taking a chance on Gossip Girl because of the buzz.

That's my feeling as well. The only remote chance of survival that Smallville has at that point is as Massena mentioned above but I doubt that the production company would be willing cut the budget anymore than it already has. We've already been told that the CW is already getting a eighth season of Smallville at a season one price. That's a considerable amount of money as it is and the only way I can see them being able to cut it even further is by getting rid of some of the cast. Assuming that TW resigns that means all the part-timers would potentially be on the chopping block.

TeenTitan- Yes. ITA. That's how I see it, that's why I hesitated to even mention the idea I had about WB carrying SV over to a new venture. It's extremely unlikely.




Bitterswete - I actually don't see this happening. It's like SV ever seeing 7 million viewers again. Sure, it could happen, but I wouldn't even bet $5 on it. The odds are soooooo against it. SV's ratings are on the decline. SV already started out really low and that was with the Justice League to boost the ratings. Without the JL, there's no place to go but down. By next spring, if the ratings pattern holds again this year and there is no reason to think it won't, the ratings are going to be really bad and there is no way it would be in good enough to transfer to another venue. That's why I agreed with Teen Titan, Sv's fate is tied to the CW's fate and the CW looks like it is going down quickly. As Entertainment Weekly said, the CW needs to turn things around quickly and their Last Great hope 90210 was a dud. And there is a domino effect. The affiliates have already lost faith in the CW, the more disappointing ratings come in, the more local affiiates will preempt CW programming for sports events and other events of local interest to protect their own income and that will only make the CW's national ratings go down more leading to more affiliates preempting and so forth. The clock is ticking down on the CW.

The EW article has quotes from Dawn Ostroff about how unfair all the criticism of the CW has been and how unfair the expectations are, the CW hasn't even had two full seasons to establish itself bc of the strike and many other reasons why she should be given more time to make the CW work. I imagine the people at the CW are very stressed out.

Then she needs to get out of the business because thats the way it is in Hollywood. Granted it might suck for her and she may be right that expectations have been too high but on the same token she's making at least a six figure income and with that kind of money thrown her way the higher ups are going to expect results. She also hasn't made the best choices either. I'm sorry but this we only cater to young women is just stupid.

A cable show doesn't need 7 million viewers to be considered a success. Even the big hit cable shows don't get ratings that high on a regular basis, if at all.

Then again, most cable shows don't have (or need) SV's budget, even the much-slashed budget they've got now.

As for the CW, I'd actually like to see it take a turn for the better. I think it's because I like pulling for the underdog. I just don't see it happening with the CW's current strategy.

Bitterswete - You misunderstood me. I was just using SV getting 7 million viewers again as an example of something that while possible, is a extreme long shot and comparing it to the long shot of WB deciding SV is worth moving to a new venue for its 9th season. Possible, but extremely unlikely. That's the only reason I used that figure. I'm sorry, I can see now how it would have been confusing.



Old Juan - ITA. They marry a network w/a young white audience to one with a young urban audience. The most logical choice to me would be going for a blanket young audience A 18-34. Instead, they decide nearly from the beginning to throw away half that crowd and focus their efforts on young women and push VM partnering with Gilmore Girls and ANTM which are not so coincidentally, the shows that DO can take credit for since she launched them at UPN. The failure of VM didn't discourage this approach and instead DO became more vocal about turning the CW into another We, Lifetime, Oxygen. What I don't get is why Les Moonves and Barry Meyer are going along with this and why they don't force her to change focus. Who knows, maybe Les Moonves is the one who came up with that business plan and that's why they haven't rethought it.

IA. In the end it's stubbornness on the part of these high ranking officials. They don't want to admit that they miscalculated and rethink their strategy. It's "We cater to woman goddammit!!!!!" and "Fuck men, we don't care about those dicks!!!!"

DO was an exec at Lifetime for 6 years before moving to UPN, which might help explain it.

Also, I don't think the CW has completely written off male viewers. If someone wants to pay to advertise during Smallville because it did well in one of the prized male demos, the CW isn't going to turn them away.

Well, wasn't that what the CW did for Smallville's 6th season? I mean the 6th season was considered the Last until the mid season hiatus, so wouldn't this be the same effect?

Also if they did work with the WB and have Smallville lead into a spin off, with S9 being the final arc of one story and opening of the next, wouldn't then they may consider it?

Just note, I want SV to end with S8, it's just speculating that's all.

The CW inherited Smallville from The WB as part of the merger. Back then the CW wasn't in peril the way it is now. They kept Smallville because it was recognizable, performed well enough, and they needed it to try and establish a solid line up for the network. IF the CW collapses now Smallville won't have anywhere to go. No other network is going to need Smallville in their line up and I don't see another network taking a show that is already 8 years old.



I know you aren't alone on that one.

I would be shocked if SciFi didn't make a run at this show if the CW folds. They could use something to replace Battlestar, and a show like Supernatural would be a natural fit on the network. Hell, you could pair it with Ghost Hunters and make a night out of it. Of the two shows, I think Supernatural would find a home and Smallville would be shit out of luck.

I agree that they wouldn't turn away anybody whose cheque didn't bounce, at the beginning of the summer wasn't Dawn trying to pimp the CW's Thursday line-up as shows that appeal to young women because of all the hot men?

She seems to have rather a one-track mind about the network's demographic appeal, as well as a very low opinion of young women.

Yes. From the press release:

May 13, 2008 (New York, New York) - The CW Network announced a fall launch date of September 1 and unveiled the schedule for its 2008-2009 season today at a presentation and party for advertisers, affiliates and national media in the Tent at Lincoln Center. The announcement was made by Dawn Ostroff, President of Entertainment, The CW.

"With shows that everyone is talking about, from 'Gossip Girl' and 'America's Next Top Model' to our upcoming '90210,' our new lineup has the best Monday-Friday schedule flow we have ever had at The CW," said Ostroff. "We are zeroed in on our target demo of young women 18-34 with both new and returning series, and each programming block provides a strong promotional platform for the following night. We're confident that the quality of our shows for the fall season will make The CW the destination for young women.".....On Thursday, the heroic team of SMALLVILLE and SUPERNATURAL will continue to offer viewers great special effects and gorgeous menmen."

Dawn was also the person who "encouraged" Kripkse to add Bella as a full time character on Supernatural, and said Reaper may finally be getting good now that is is more focused on ships. I don;t find it hard to believe that she tinkered with Smallville last season, or has made "suggestions" to PS3 as well to make the show more friendly to the CW's preferred demographic. Since, as we all know, 18-34 year old women hate shows about heroes, adventure and sci-fi. [/snark]

When the CW is canceled, I hope the online WB will show old episodes of Smallville.

Hollywood Insider/EW ratings report contrasting Supernatural/Smallville:

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/09/supernatural-fl.html

. The show's season 4 opener drew an average of 4 million viewers in the overnights, up a whopping 33 percent from its season 3 premiere last fall. (If you're among the newcomers who flocked to the show last night, be sure to check out our Supernatural season-premiere recap, and our gallery of EWwy nominees, including series star Jensen Ackles.) Supernatural's time-slot lead-in, Smallville, on the other hand, drew 4.4 million viewers for its season 8 premiere, a figure about 800,000 less than what it drew for its 2007 opener.

Need to grumble that while Dawn did push VM, she first tinkered with it enough to mess up half of what actually worked and I'm still mad about what happened with the showrunners on Gilmore Girls (not to mention stretching out the show too long and then not being able to really resolve some major issues because the actresses refused to sign on for another year after their contracts expired...grrrr) So overall, I can't say she makes good decisions about any type of show. Oh, and I hate ANTM...just saying.

Re: Smallville shifting over to a cable network - I wonder how many of the 4 mn odd viewers who watched SV would be willing to pay for it.

Quality-wise SV lags behind a lot of shows. I'd be willing to bet that SPN would have more "cable"viewers, so to speak, than SV.

Plus, I'm thinking life in cable would have EDLois turning up as Lex's 4 p.m. booty call - so *shudder shudder*

Please tell me the ratings were down again for Plastique