That is the same thing I thought after Season 4. With those guys at helm and this crazy network, there is always a worse.



I'd say that if they are able to gather some momentum after the season premiere, with a batch of great episodes then they could get back to the 5 million threshold. We have seen repeatedly that the audience is still there (just think Justice). But I really doubt that we will this stellar season, in fact, since MR is out and AM apparently also on her way out, I concur that S8 will most probably be a ratings disaster. The final nail in the coffin will most probably be that Doomsday is characterized completely false, basically just retaining the name, which will send away all those comic fans that will tune in to see SV's take on this character.

Ratings for Sleeper & Apocalypse.

17.Sleeper.................3.62 million*
18.Apocalypse............3.64 million


Last time Smallville posted 5 million, happened with the Chloe featured episode of:

4.Cure................5.18 million*

As much as I love Chloe, I think that high rating had more to do with Dean Cain than her.

I thought things could not get any worse after season four. I was so very, very wrong.
So the solution, IMO, is more Dean Cain. And more shirtless Chloe.I'm with jwm. Arctic may get a boost (the finalies usually do), but the show has not shown any real growth since coming back with Descent. Unless Arctic gets one heck of a promotional push, I don't think 4 million is guarenteed.

The back half of the season always has much lower ratings than the first half, though, what with all the sports luring away so many viewers. You can't compare ratings in the first half of the season with those in the last half, it's essentially meaningless.

At this time in season 6, the ratings were around the 3.5 million range, weren't they? I mean, the ratings have gone down this season but not by all that much, so far as I can tell--maybe 5%-10%.

Also, isn't every show posting a fairly big drop since they came back from the strike?

Smallville seems to be holding up a lot better than other shows.

I know that I've struggled to watch television since the strike. I really got out of the habit. Only my obsessive shows lured me back. Anything that I watched casually, I've dropped and even some of those didn't make it back on my list (American Idol, Lost)

For once a week shows I've been fine. But I probably haven't watched TDS, Colbert or Conan in months. And I like the show, I just can't re-get myself into watching them.

Also, for me, I think quite a few of the shows I was enjoying before the break I'm just not feeling now that they've come back. Whether that's because I have lost interest, or because they've come back weaker creatively (which I feel is the case with a lot of them), I don't know.

This whole TV season just seems like a wash. I'm thinking ratings won't really stabilise until the new season kicks off.

The final numbers for Apocalypse was 3.81 million. When the DVR's ratings come out, I expect close to 5 million.

Harrison, I meant getting back a live/same day audience of 5 million or more. "Cure" had one, but with time shifted viewing, its numbers including DVR were probably much higher because SV has had a large DVR audience for years now. So if 5 million viewed live plus same day, the audience with time delayed was probably close to 6, if their normal pattern held.

But, time delayed isn't that exciting to advertisers bc people tend to ff'd through the ads. This explains the increase of product placement within the show itself bc then the advertisers like Dell, Stride, Toyota, are more secure they're getting exposure for their product to the audience. Still getting that audience live is more desireable.



Same here. Also, I find that youtube has affected my viewing because if I miss something live, even if I fail to record it, I know if it is a popular show that I will most likely be able to find it up on youtube within a few hours. In a way, I think youtube hurts shows with big fandoms, like scifi shows, more because fans can rely upon other fans to post clips online.

According to pifeedback, 3.96 million for "Quest." Not bad. I wouldn't be surprised if it follows the "it was the week after a good episode" theory; or, maybe people were curious after the show news of the past week.

I watched the show last night with a non-regular viewer though and he was a bit put off by some of the mythology stuff... so hopefully that's not the general consensus. If they just promote the damn thing the finale COULD get 5 million viewers... but at this rate... who knows if they'll even try.

I was surprised how much my local station was promoting both Smallville and Supernatural. I heard radio ads for them all week leading up to Thursday night.

This is going to make CW show's numbers worse all around, right? Oi. Someone save this network.

There is a somewhat Smallville related article in The Hollywood Reporter. It says Reaper has been renewed for a 13 episode 2nd season, and will be a midseason replacement. The plan is Reaper will likely be paired with Supernatural - after Smallville finished it's run.

So, is the article talking about a possible plan for the 3rd season of Reaper during 2009-2010, or is Smallville getting a shortened 8th season?

I have no idea how much sense it makes for the CW to shorten the season. Almost all of the really expensive (because long term) cast members have left or are about to leave. Additionally, they are about to cast two new villains, which seems a little bit much for a shortened season.

Taking it to the speculation thread..

IGN has a similar article (credit carcassi). They seem to be implying pretty clearly that SV will have a shortened season:

Season 2 (of Reaper) will be comprised of 13 episodes and will debut midseason. The Reporter says the current plan is to likely pair Reaper with Supernatural on Thursday nights - Smallville's eighth and presumably final season will finish its entire run first, if this plan goes forward.

But they're obviously basing this on the other article, so it could all be a misunderstanding or wrong info. I hope we hear something confirming this, or saying it's wrong, at the upfronts.

Or perhaps they intend for SV to have its run straight-through, no long term hiatus/pre-emptions. Which, conceivably, could have SV ending in March.

But I think could easily shave some eps off its final season. Does it really matter?

Does March count as "midseason," though? I honestly don't know-- I don't pay much attention to that kind of thing. I thought midseason replacements usually popped up around January.



Actually, I think it could make a lot of sense. If they're going to get AM back, it might be easier to get her back for a significantly shortened season. Conversely, if not, they have all their other actors signed for thirteen episodes, so they could use them all to the extent of their contracts and not have to pay to up them, or have a lot of episodes in which Jimmy, EDLois, or Kara are awkwardly missing. Plus, it would force the writers to really push forward on Clark's development. And that means the writers probably wouldn't be able to diddle around with Doomtender angst and sexy villainous women to excess.

The biggest down side is that it would mean Lana would be involved in way too large a percentage of the last season to suit me:-P.

Elly, that's exactly what I thought when I first read the article. I think they're probably going to stick with what they've got and knock it out in a straight run of 13 episodes rather than do a large portion without all of the main cast.

And personally don't think it bodes well for AM returning, because they'll need to spend about 5 of those eps on Clana ending, and with only 8 left, they'll need those to deal with Clois development, IMO. I'm guess I'm okay with that as it's clear Chlois and Chlark don't look possible in any way now. My sadness is just...unwavering. To the Bitterness thread I go.

Well, yes, if you consider their big profit-making enterprise: DVD sales. There's probably not much of a market for a half-assed, half-season box set.

Yeah, I think so. Buffy's 12-episode first season premiered in March back in 1997.

I don't think we should read to much into this news yet. I personally doubt they'd suddenly shave it down to 13 episodes, and like BadToad said they could run through a full-length season by March if they cut down on the breaks.

Thinking like a network exec, I don't think it would make much sense to show the entire, 22 episode season in one straight shot. If they're paying for the full season, why not take full advantage of it, so you can have the big finale during May sweeps. And showing all of the episodes with no breaks so SV could bow out by March would mean showing new episodes on Thanksgiving, during the Christmas holidays, etc. And I just can't see it.

I'm more inclined to think there's a misunderstanding somewhere.

Hmm, other shows (Lost, Alias, 24? and on cable TV) have done it before - namely showing the entire season in one straight shot.

I read an article that talked about CW's ratings being extremely low and ways to fix that - one way was to have good, first-run episodes/shows over the summer during the summer slump. If that's a plan for the CW, then perhaps it could be considered a "mid-season replacement" whereby some of next summer is considered part of the season? *shrug*

LOST has also reduced its number of episodes, from a usual 22 to 16 for this season (although I don't know if it got further reduced due to the strike), next season and then the one after that, which they've already announced will be their last. I don't think SV will get cut down to 13, but I do think it's possible the network might be considering shaving a few off and running them all concurrently.

Cable, especially premium cable, is a different animal. HBO, for example, doesn't have to worry about how many advertisers they have, how they do during sweeps, etc. So they don't have to worry about trying to time their scheduling so they will get good ratings during sweeps periods. They can put shows wherever they want. As long as they are getting subscribers, they're happy.

Also, cable series usually have shorter seasons than those on broadcast networks.

Finally, 24 and Lost do run straight through, but they also start their seasons much later than everyone else and, as pointed out above, Lost is doing only 16 eps per season.

I was talking to my friend Jason about this last night, and one thing he could see happening would be for Smallville to do xx episodes through midseason, let Reaper take its slot and do 13 episodes, and then SV comes back in April or so to do its final arc.

That actually does make a lot more sense than doing 9 episodes on, 10 weeks of repeats, 4 on, a month of repeats, then a final 5 or whatever.

I've heard nothing of a shorter season yet... I think a lot depends on how far the ratings drop. Even with some of the backlash I've heard re: S8, I still don't see it falling to the levels of the rest of the network yet.

According to this article:

From Steve at SaveSuperman.com in an e-mail he got from the source that tipped off Emi (his wife) that no one dies in S6 long before Phantom aired and in spite of info to the contrary from Al.



Now Steve has been wrong before and sometimes he's just extrapolating from material everyone has, but I think this one is legit. It's not definitive, but I think that insiders are speculating just as much as the fans.

Well, then bring on the 10 episode arc of glory, I say. And fall on bended knee for AM.

Wow. I kind of hope that isn't true because it just shows what a clusterfuck CW is.

After the negative beating the show has taken in the press for losing most of its cast and show-runners, the unfavorable impressions most of us have of Tess and Davis, and how they actually had a chance to end on a high note with most of the cast (with some foresight).

And they're putting everoyne through all this for that little episodes?

I wonder if they will scrap next season's arc and just tie everything up?

Well, we'll know by tonight when they announce their schedule at their upfront dinner party..

Schedule announced:

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-cw-upfro...0,4382855.story
http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-cwfall20...0,2860636.story

Hartley's Austin Golden wasn't picked up but Michael Cassidy's Filthy Rich Girls was.

Interesting that the new season begins Sept. 1 - wonder if that means SV will be that early in the month, also.

If they are going to put Reapers 13 episodes in the same time slot as Smallville's 22 episodes(regardless of if it's in the middle or after SV is over), then it kind of has to be starting early in September. Thats 35 weeks of new episodes, almost 9 months....which would be September to May. Personally, I would kind of like to see Season 8 be run non stop, it would really be able to build momentum and probably be a really exciting five months.
That's if we even get 22 episodes.

So it was just me who didn't find any information at all about the amount of ordered episodes ? I guess this means we got ourselves a full pickup, which makes - despite all the backslash - sense given that it is the strongest thing the CW has.

Oh, I couldn't find thing one about the amount of episodes ordered. I assume its a full season. If it's going to be a shortened order, we might not hear about it for awhile yet and even then it would probably be 18 episodes at the very least. I don't think it would make any sense for CW to practically reboot an entire show for 10 or so episodes ending in December.

Man, you guys are slipping. Here I am getting in from work and I'm the one that has to post the ratings? Snap out of it guys. ;)

The CW could be in trouble if ratings keep falling.

I'd find it kind of ironic if it ended with this season, same as Smallville. Though I think the first thing to try should be to replace Ostroff and come up with better strategies. I don't think the network sucks so much as the approach. Instead of burying its genre hits (Smallville, Supernatural, Reaper, etc.) they should be celebrating them.

And give me that Green Arrow show. Haha.

I do think the new 90210 will do decently for them... but it might be too little, too late... and I think that Gossip Girl clone show they have planned will crash and burn faster than Life is Wild. (I still think I'm the only one that kinda liked that show but they buried it on their Sunday schedule with no promotion)

I don't see any of the GG clones becomming smash hits for the CW. Not everyone likes shows about pretty, rich kids with problems.

I can't say I'm surprised by the mediocre numbers for the finale. I personally thought Quest was an ill-concieved episode that might drive people away. The heavy religious undertones, not to mention the gross-out chest carvings just didn't seem like it would have mass appeal.

The CW has made wrong move after wrong move. And I don't care how hard the publicity machine is trying to convince people that GG is a hit, the fact remains that not a lot of people are watching it. And being hit over the head with it everywhere you turn is far more likely to engender resentment then it is loyalty, IMO. I see them making the same mistake next year with the 90210 thing (which has an amazingly bland looking cast).

I think the network might've done better if it had tried to appeal to a few demographics, rather then just deciding that teenage girls were IT ruled, everyone else drooled. They treated SV and SPN just horribly, and all season those were their most solid scripted shows. And Dawn Ostroff is crazy pants. I loved the comment on Nikki Finke's blog from someone who worked with her and said she wasn't qualified to spritz perfume on people in department stores.

I almost expected the numbers to go up like they usually do.

Well, it is official. Dawn is batshit crazy. "Our ratings are great! You just aren't measuring them right!"

*snort*

Where did she say this?

After thinking about it, I think the low ratings for the finale may be because people didn't know it was the finale.

From the WSJ article Craig kindly provided a link to: Tranbslation:I think Dawn stole all of AlMiles's crack.

Wow, does that mean PS3 will be clean and sober next year? Could it be that *gasp* the show might make sense?

Who am I kidding? There's always more crack.

How about trying to create more genre shows? Or maybe even recicling them for example CBS canceled Moonlight what about picking it up? I didn't watched it but I had seen it pop up very often on Sci-fi forums so maybe it could bring some numbers to CW and we all know that sexy vampires are very easy to create a cult following ;).

I guess I hoped more people would tune in for MR's final bow as Lex. Maybe people didn't know this was "it" for Lex. I mean if Lex's swan song can't crack 4 million what are the numbers going to look like next year?