Nice to see a little boost in the ratings for Sleeper. I will be real curious to see if there is a drop for Apocolyapse, like the one from Hero (3.81 million) to Traveler (3.44 million). Previous episode quality is not the only factor in the ratings, but it is a factor.

I am a little surprised that Apocalypse, which is the 150th episode, directed by TW and IMO a Big Event Episode (Clark is his traditional "Clark Kent" disguise, Lois as her Iconic self, very scary President Lex) is getting so little promotion. It seems like it should be at least a big a deal as Lexmas, another AU / vision episode. It may not make a lasting change in the show like Reckoning, but shouldn't it get at least a little more pimping? Hell, sell it as "We put Tom in a pretty suit!" EW will eat that up!GG may be a great show - I haven't seen it, and truth be told I am not interested in it. But I get frustrated when I watch three shows on the CW (Reaper, Smallville and Supernatural) and there seems to be a GG commercial every single break. Often, the same damn GG commercial every single break, now accompanied by Farmer Gets a Wife. Now, I understand that the CW wants to promote new shows - they are looking to the future, and Smallville is getting old (no pun intended). But how about a little love for the most successful non-wrestling based show on the network?

The pimping of GG is completely insane. You can't swing a dead cat around and not hit some sort of advertisement for the show, or a picture of the cast. And that pimping has got to be coming from the CW. So, I doubt very much they have a spare dime to advertise SV at all. They've put all their eggs in the one GG basket. Personally, I am hoping it comes back and bites them in the ass with giant, sharp, nasty teeth.

I honestly don't expect them to promote Smallville very much. It's a lock for season 8, isn't getting a season 9, and isn't likely to pull in any new viewers no matter how much they advertise it. The best they could expect is to get old viewers back. And I'm not even sure if that matters anymore, moneywise (when are the costs for each minute of ad-time decided?). I think they'd do better to spend more money developing a new, original show. And I mean original - not the same old crap with a new label.

I was also disappointed that the trailer didn't have a giant "IT'S THE 150TH EPISODE Y'ALL" kind of thing. The WB did it for all of their shows' 100th and 150th episodes. I particularly remember Charmed emphasizing that their 150th episode was as such, even though nothing really happened in in the episode (aside from the return of Julian McMahon).

That's what I was hoping for. The episode is certainly presented as being "big," but how hard would it be to add "150th Episode"? Like after "Next Thursday" or "5.1.08" or whatever writing they have. Surely these things come up, right? I do hope the episode does well in ratings. I get that it doesn't really matter, but it'd be nice to see a steady climb until the season finale.

I honestly don't mind the CW pimping GG because it is a good show, and I really want it to do well. However, the fact that they blatantly ignore SV when it comes to promos is just beyond annoying. And like Scry, I remember when Charmed had its 150th episode the WB advertised it quite a bit. If SV's 150th episode can't get any fanfare, then I wonder what will happen when it's the series finale.

They are treating this episode like it's any other episode and I don't understand why.

Considering the show is the highest rated drama on the network, even with the meager promotion they do for it, and the fact that it is already a lock for season 8, even if the ratings suck, why would the CW bother promoting it?

It's like Supernatural, which has a solid fanbase that tunes in regardless of where they schedule it, whether or not it's a repete, or what creative direction the show takes. There's really no point in wasting money promoting shows like this.

If there's no point in promoting the show, I'd almost rather the ad dollars go into the show... maybe to keep certain actors around.

There's some promotion of SV on other networks--MTV often has SV commercials. (Shut up, I have a "Pimp My Ride" addiction.)

I saw the "Apocalypse" promo during "Gossip Girl" yesterday. It only ran once though.

After the WWE jumps ship next season, the only shows the CW has that are guaranteed to pull an audience are ANTM, the Pussycat Dolls, and Smallville. Given that Smallville is definitely over after next season, it does nothing for them to support it, and there's the assumption that if you're watching the CW at all, chances are you're watching Smallville anyway.

That being said, it is quite concerning to see what they are pimping during Smallville, namely, GG. It seems TPTB are intending to translate teen soap opera Smallville audience into teen soap opera GG audience. Which gives you an idea of the direction the network would like to take the show.

What will be more interesting to see is if the CW has plans to redirect the superhero/scifi audience that Smallville attracts into a new show. SN probably has an established audience already, so it gains little ground by being pimped during Smallville. With AlMiles gone, a spinoff seems unlikely. Does the CW even have the budget to try to start up something new that would be worth watching? Who knows.

I don't imagine their development budget has changed. They will still be ordering pilots etc. (I assume, depending on how much the strike really changes the pilot/presentation landscape in the future).

I think the real question is: Does the CW have any interested in capturing a superhero/science fiction audience?

And I think the answer is no.

They've had numerous opportunities to spin-off Smallville and haven't done so. Kara could have gone into her own spin-off, but in my opinion it's far too late in the series' run to get a spin-off off the ground. The audience and interest just isn't there. If you're going to do it, you do it early on, when the show is at its peak. Not once it's started its decline.

And beyond Smallville has the CW ever had a sci-fi fantasy show on their books? I guess you could count Aquaman's almost-ran, but that's about it.

The network people seem to be entirely focused on teen oriented soap, and reality.

Which really seems a little illogical, since some of The WB's greatest success stories - Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Charmed and Smallville - Were all fantasy shows.

And apart from Veronica Mars wasn't UPN best known for Star Trek?

Indeed, I believe "Star Trek: Voyager" was their flagship show, and after that "Enterprise." I don't think "Enterprise" ever pulled as good ratings as they hoped for, however.

The irony is that the top rated episode of Smallville was Lineage. No teen soap stuff, pretty minimal on the sci-fi or comic book stuff. Just good drama.

The top rated UPN program ever was on their first week, with the premiere of Star Trek: Voyager. I think it had 12 million viewers, and never got that high again, although the premiere of Enterprise also did really well.

I don't think CW is interested in sci-fi at all. I think we'll just have to wait for the online-WB to go back to broadcast or cable before we have something like what the WB once was. Smallville sounds like it and Supernatural are the network's last gasps for sci-fi type stuff.

Reaper would be on that list too, but despite getting ratings almost as high as GG, there's no word on renewal for that one.

After watching tonight's episode of "Reaper," I'd have to agree. I don't watch CW, except for SV and Reaper, but I figured, if any CW show would feature a trailer for SV's 150th--which is only two days away--it would be Reaper.

We got one, all right. It was a thirty-second shot of Kara, speeding away from Earth, followed by a promo for Speed Racer.

I think that says it all. :/

Reaper has had better ratings than GG many times, including GG recent comeback to the infamous OMFG campaign. Reaper doesn't get the demo that Dawn is looking for, you know female tweens.

I completely forgot that Reaper has not yet been renewed. That is such bullshit since it's such a fun, enjoyable show. For awhile I was wondering if it could maintain, since I was kind of eh on every character except Ray Wise's awesome Devil but when it came back (not the post-strike episodes but the holdover episodes as well) I realized I actually have grown to enjoy the gang. (See what happens when you try to create a universe show? People tend to fall into it. Hint Smallville)

When I talk about them promoting the show, I don't mean just on the network. I see OMFG posters everywhere but I don't think I've seen one for Smallville. I don't read entertainment magazines but have they done anything for 150? Even a one page in EW? I can understand them not trying to get people already watching the channel to watch Smallville but people outside the CW viewing audience. Milestone episodes usually do well.

And that's who Gossip Girl is aimed at? Wow. I haven't watched it, but it seems a little slutty for the tweens.

It's moreso aimed at teens and young adults.

Tv Guide gave them a larger episode description then the other shows on Thursday nights, and EW did mention it in their what to watch section.

TV Guide channel has done a couple of behind-the-scenes featurettes about Apocalypse.

Reaper not yet being renewed is a joke. Even though I watch Gossip Girl I understand why there's a backlash against all the promotion it's getting. However, I'm totally over the Farmer Wants a Wife promos.

I'm curious to see how SV will be promoted in S8. You'd think with it being the show's last season they'd pull out all the stops but with this network who knows what will happen.

As am I. I mean, if they completely pass on the built-in "8" symbol to tie in with promotion for the final season, then they're really stupid.

I just read something the other day about how Dawn Ostroff wants to build the CW with more programming that appeals to women. It said something about using Gossip Girl as the launching pad for other stuff like the 90210 spin-off. Stereotypically, women are not thought of as sci-fi fans so I agree that there probably won't be anything similar replacing Smallville when it's over.

It's especially weird since there are so many of those moments to pair with a poster for SV.

I don't think the CW has decided that promotion won't do SV and SPN any good because they can't do better anyway. If they have decided that, they are wrong. Media studies have shown that any show, no matter how long it's been on, can benefit from good promotion. And it's in a network's best interest to get the best ratings for all of their shows. Yes, SV has been renewed for a season 8, and will be back no matter what. But it's ratings still matter, and the CW will make more money in SV's time period if it's getting good ratings.

The problem is that the CW has decided GG is their Golden Child, and they are giving it most of the marketing pie, leaving little for anyone else. And yet, spending most of their money pushing, and pimping, and promoting, and marketing GG out the wazoo, while mostly ignoring everything else, GG isn't doing much better now than it was doing before.

It's no surprise there's a backlash towards all the GG promotion. Fans of other CW shows are thinking, "Wait, let me get this straight. You spent most of your money promoting this one show, while giving other shows the least amount of attention you could without being accused of outright neglecting them, and for what? So GG could gain 200,000 more viewers and go up a tenth of a ratings point?!"

Man, if this ain't proof the CW seriously needs new management...

If they're going for the whole "sex sells" mentality, why not make a promo about "the boys of Thursday" (like "the girls of Thursday" but better) and show TW, MR (and I guess AA although he isn't a sex symbol in my mind, just cute), Jensen Ackles, and Jared Padalecki? Then run the hell out of it during Gossip Girl and ANTM and One Tree Hill and other shows that a lot of women/teenage girls watch. I definitely think they should re-run episodes of SV on Saturday or Sunday night also.

Jared Padalecki was just featured as one of "the Sexiest" on TV in the new TV Guide. They should exploit that as well.

Such a good idea. Over the summer at San Diego's ComicCon, they had huge trucks driving around with pictures of MR and JA, and TW and JP on the sides that said something about Thursday nights (I mildly freaked when I saw the MR & JA one). So at one time, someone knew this was a good idea and actually implemented it.

Actually, I think Smallville's moments are more WTF than OMG

I imagine something like the voice of the announcer in Conan O'Brien's "What In The World" bit where they show a clip from Smallville and have a guy in that voice say "WTF!?" Plenty of examples from Sleeper.

I literally burst out laughing when I read that last line. Good one, Dread! I guess that's why they pay you the big bucks! :-)
I was on the phone with my dad when I read the line and I started laughing. Of course, I had to explain to him why I was laughing and his response was to basically say, "ok," and then go back to what he was talking about like I had never even spoken. :-)

You know I was just thinking... the promotion for S5 was pretty high and look at how well that one did in the ratings. They even brought Tom out at the Press Tour and had him promoting the upcoming appearances of Tom Wopat and James Marsters.

I just realized something... since they are only targeting young women... wasn't Dawn Ostroff in charge of Lifetime back in the day? That would explain a lot... the thing they don't get is, the genre stuff worked for both sexes. Buffy for example was a girl who could kick ass that girls looked up to, while guys could than she's hot. SV also had the pretty coming from all angles.

Yeah, it boggles the mind how Dawn could miss that kind of opportunity. It's so obvious.

Buffy was just a good show all-around--solid cast, good writing, good sets, etc. People will respond more to quality than they will to marketing gimmicks, I think--at least, they'll stick around longer.

I just don't understand why execs don't realize that sci-fi shows (in a broad sense--universe shows, whathaveyou) tend to be winners. What were the WB's top rated shows? Surely they were SV, Buffy, and Dawson's Creek, right? So two out of three.

And there's the X-files, Lost, BSG and Heroes. I'm sure there are others I can't think of.

I guess that execs don't like them because they tend to have higher costs than dramas or comedies because of the special effects budgets, but people seem to really respond to them.

Also, Charmed (which is another example of a successful sci-fi showed based on women) had the second highest rated pilot in the network's history, and I believe at one point it was number 2 on the network.
I think that's probably a big reason why. However, sci-fi seems to have gotten bigger over the past few years, so I'm not sure why they consider them a bad thing.

Les Moonves drilled in my head when Dr. Quinn was canceled, (inspite of winning its time slot every episode for the last season), was its failure to attract Young, Urban, Males... YUMs!

CW may have a different target, but since then, I do see trends in shows being canceled because lack of YUMs as viewers.

While a genre show might cost more, they also have the potential to make more.

Look at BtVS and Angel. Still raking in the merchandising dollars after all this time. Heck, fans are still as devoted as ever to the shows and the fandom is still going strong. Which is probably why there are always rumors of a movie, or a spin-off, or something.

Heck, the Charmed books are still doing good business.

Non-genre shows don't tend to have the same kind of shelf life. You might remember them fondly but, once they are off the air, most fans move on to something else. They certainly don't buy a lot of merchandise related to those shows.

Genre fandoms are different. Years after a show is off the air, a genre fandom can still be going strong. And still be spending money on merchandising for it.

I think networks and studios understand that more than they used to. But some TV execs still don't "get" these kinds of shows, so don't treat them the same as mainstream genres or comedies.

Bitterswete, so true. "Universe shows" have extremely loyal and long-lasting fandoms, and other kinds of shows do tend to be forgotten quickly.

I remember reading something about how Donnie Darko bombed in the theater, but once released on DVD became this instant cult classic. The production company made a ton of money off DVD sales alone, and while it was deemed a loss while still in theaters, they recouped their costs and reaped a ton of profit in the first year or two after the DVD release. This same thing has happened with several movies (such as Empire Records), but for one reason or another, this particular one bit execs in the ass. They finally realized that creating movies just for the value of their dvd sales might not be such a bad idea.

Hell, people are still buying the original Star Trek DVD's, another show which I believe was canceled due to the high SFX budget. And, hell, how many decades has that been? Four?

Anyway, even though this is a truth that we all know, the reason why some execs probably still won't accept it? Because to them, short-term profits are more important; quarterlies are what keeps their jobs. Even though an eye towards long-term profit means more successful managers, many still can't resist the allure of lower costs and higher profit-margins on that financial quarterly. Case in point: reality shows. How many of those honestly have any re-watch value? And yet they're the biggest thing in TV, because those low costs make the profit margins look so damn high.

The problem with SV is that I don't see as big and loyal a fandom for it after the series end like Buffy. Joss Wheedon has a major following because of Buffy and Angel. He built a universe full of diverse characters & relationships. Goughlar . . . built the Lanaverse.

Star Trek is a prime example of something small that took a long time to deliver but whoa did it deliver.

What Smallville has done best IMO is create potential and while there is no promise that the fandom will remain loyal to the show, I think there is potential for life long loyalty to ships and missed chances and to keep feeding that, fans will tap into the original product for inspiration. So I can see Smallville continue to do well in syndication and DVD's.

I do think that the CW are overlooking a great chance to up their audience. I can't see how it hurts them to have a larger audience tune in to one of their stations. If nothing else it would expose a Gossip Girl promo to another viewer.

I agree with mobius and Bkwurm. What makes the shows that get fandom get their long lasting is that they created a universe that you can fall into. For the most part you have well written characters that are consistent and plotlines with intricacies that you love watching over and over again.

Smallville doesn't really have that. It has repetitive storylines that are often ridiculous if not flat out boring. There is no universe. For most of its run it seems to have shied away from geek-fans opting instead to go more down the teen drama route...and not even well written teen drama. I remember Goughlar talking about fearing being too comic bookie. And it was obvious. I never felt as though Smallville plucked the heart strings of geekdom like the Whedon shows, or BSG, or Heroes or X-Files. And I really think it's why this show won't have the strength many of these other shows do.

I don't think it will completely go away and it might have some minor success in syndication but I sincerely doubt that in its final days we'll get the giant press push Buffy or X-Files got or the disappointed clamoring after Angel's cancellation. I don't really see the show loyalty all the other shows had.

And I think that a lot of the fandom is based on the things that differ from the Superman canon like Chloe, this really weird version of Lana who is neither red-headed or merely the girl next door, the different relationship between Clark & Lex which was snuffed out pretty early on, etc. Many have said they stayed for Lionel. So if SV decides to suddenly lightswitch to the Clois show with Jimmy & Kara going into the stupid hamster dance of "secrets and lies" while Chloe & Lex are suddenly offscreen and forgotten, I only see hardcore traditionalists/completists/hardcore Clois fans bothering with S8.

SV is never going to be like Star Trek, Buffy, Doctor Who or even Blake's 7 in terms of how people feel about it afterwards.

And I'd also like to add those who've stayed for the past 7 seasons to watch Clark finally reach the end of his journey.

The problem is that this series ostensibly about Clark . . . undercut him to the point that a lot of people do not watch simply for him or watch JUST for him.

I'm not saying that S8 isn't going to be produced but with it already being in the mid 3s now . . . I don't see why it can't dip to around low 3s or even high 2s. And I don't think people should be surprised if it turns out like that. I don't think a huge wave of people are going to come and replace the viewers who leave.

Last night's ratings from pifeedback:

I wonder if it would be possible for them to get back to 5 million again. Season 5 had that surprising upturn in ratings. I remember Brainiac and the FOS pulled in people for "Solitude." But were present last night, but the thrill is gone it seems. In this one aspect, I don't think it's the CW's fault. Brainiac has become lame. Shouldn't his master plan have us on the edge of our seats? Shouldn't people be talking about it on the boards? I think so. I think it should be thrilling and intense and it just hasn't been, imo.

I don't blame JM. He is always excellent. I don't think they've used him strategically.

Responding in the season 8 speculation thread...

I think they'll have a hard time getting back to 4 million. With at least half the leads leaving in conjunction with the current ratings they should pull the plug on season eight now. I don't see how this show can possibly sustain itself for another season. They were down two episodes from a full season this year. They should just wrap the whole thing up with a two hour "made for TV movie" that plays as the last two episodes of season seven be done with it.

I just have a gut feeling season eight is going to be a disaster both ratings and quality wise.

Ratings-wise - maybe, but quality-wise... I don't think anything can be worse than what we had in S6 & S7.