Well, they're losing my money then because I refuse to buy DVDs when the show is such crap overall. Goughlar really showed their ignorance of the comics when they made lana Lang the centeral character of the show and thought viewers would want to watch the angsty crap they brought with her. Viewers familiar with the comics know she is a nasty piece of work in the modern comic era and should never have been placed in the position she has been. The guys at my local comic store were leery of Smallville at first but came around; I once heard them talking about how TW really sold it for them but, they still despise the character of Lana Lang. It's Lana, and what the ehro does to be with her, that makes people turn away.

With the advent of season five and the appalling Clana sex, a lot of people were really turned off. We may try to excuse the hero because he doesn't technically know Lana killed her former BF's mother then asked the Luthors to cover it up but Clark should have asked wuestions and we should never have heard what he said to Lana at the end of season four, which was, "What about Jason? I don't even care about him...yadda, yadda, I just want to be with you," etc, blah, blah. WE see the hero is going wrong and it's not okay. Eps like Labyrinth which were so clearly altered at the end where Clark, having just learned it is Chloe and not Lana in whom he has faith and whose death devastated him, is suddenly all, "I still love Lana." WTF? Does Clark ever listen to his conscience at all? Is he truly brain dead?

Promise outraged everyone with Clark turned into a philandering jerk, pawing another man's girl and encouraging her to cheat. Not what a clear majority of people want to see. Trashing the hero is what sends peole screaming never to return in many cases. AND Wrath was even worse since Clark was by then very aware of so many things he knew werwe not right about Lana, was hurt she lied about her demise, knew she framed Lex, knew she planned on letting Lex die in Nemesis, but he ignores it. Who wants to watch the hero never learning anything and always chasing the one girl who is self-centered and manipulative, who ran to his enemy's arms, berated him constantly and said the cruelist things she could think up? Heroes don't act that way. Superman, or the man who will become him, doesn't act that way. And when I thought it couldn't get any worse, we have Lana kidnapping and torturing Lionel, embezzeling millions of dollars, Clark still sensing something is wrong but asking no questions and then the horrific Wrath in which the hero, knowing peopel who have his abilities go nuts or can die , as his dad did, lets Lanacakes keep them so they can have sex. Endangering a girl he supposedly loves so he can screw her. Yeah. That's a real hero.

Not. It seems Goughlar do think only of Clana because they are jonesing for Lana, no matter what it may do to the hero. They seem to get off finding cruel things to do to Chloe, never rewarding her for anything she does except for her getting into the DP which is then overshadowed by Nois being handed another job for which she is totally unqualified. Why would they think anyone wants to see the hero fall and fail repeatedly? Why do they think people will accept their version of the character they claim are the icons loved by millions of people around the world when they come to resemble them not at all?

This is supposed to be an heroic tale. If they give us the mythology, Superman action and a hero we can respect then people witll watch. If we see evil punished and good rewarded, people will tune in. I they give us crap like Clana sex and philandering Clark, and Clark being an ass to people who are actually his friends then this person is not Clark Kent. At fifteen, Clark could get away with always doing the right thing. It was naughty but cute when he stacked the jocks cars on top of one another in season one. But they stray too far, make the hero too blind and stupid and people are turned off. Goughlar and the writing staff are idiots that ought to know there is a line beyond which you can't go and still expect us to view Clark as a hero and they passed that long ago. Ratings tanked after Labyrinth and Promise and there was a clear message there which they ignore. They claim shit is good enough to eat. And they squander any good will they do get from doing it right by never maintaining the high spots. It's always back to crap Clana. They do seemed to have realized Nois belongs in the B-plot and can't carry an ep but otherwise it's all downhill and no end in sight. I can't believe they think people want another season of this crap. Clana has always been the albatross around Smallville's neck and this season is worse than ever since we see Lana get away with horrendous actions and Clark pats her on the back and tells her she's not that bad. Where's the hero I was told I'd get to watch grow up? Sadly, he seems to be missing in action right now. ANd considering the horror of the last ep, I think ratings will tank again after the break.

Dare we hope.. a deal has been struck?

[Please don't post whole articles. Just link to them. Also, general strike discussion should go in the TV Industry Watch thread in the TV Potluck forum. Thanks. - TWoP Tennison]

Well, I hope it's true and we can get back on track with the episodes not only for Smallville, but for my other favorite shows as well.

So much word, Gabtica. But I'm almost afraid to hope!

There's a rumor on IESB, and take that for what its worth, that SV is only going to have 15 eps regardless of the end of the strike or not, and that this was something decided pre-strike, and the reason was "cast issues".

Don't know how much, if any, truth there is in that. But there it is.

A lot of unreliable stuff has come off IESB lately, particularly on the boards. And since they had the cast nailed down for season seven with full contracts, I can't see any reason why they would have only had fifteen episodes. Really, I don't. It's possible the showrunners knew the strike was coming, and thought it wouldn't be settled-- but could they really just conclusively cut the show short without incurring the CW's wrath? After all, it's one of the CW's top-rated shows. I can't imagine the CW would permit that.

Yeah. It sounds odd. I got the impression the 15 episodes was just due to the strike. Like you said, IESB has been posting a lot of unreliable stuff, so who knows...

I don't see how cast issues would even be a problem anyway. The cast are on contract to work probably through April. I'd have to guess that once they film the 15th episode, the cast would be able to leave but if the strike ended, they would be required to come back to film the rest of the season.

Sounds like total BS from what I've heard.

Okay my fellow A Channelers, it's time to get back on the wagon. For a week, anyway and then we call all fall right off again. Gemini is scheduled to air tomorrow, Wednesday Dec. 12 at 8pm, per the A Channel website.

Did I get the time right in the Canada thread? I can't even get my own timezone right half the time, so I don't know.

Providing A Channel isn't going to change their minds by tomorrow night, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, the thread is currently set to open right on time. :) Apparently I can't do this weird time thing, either.

Pifeedback.com has last nights ratings (based on fast nationals) and these look markedly down to me.

Youch. Under 4 mil.

Which is why I think networks should retire the hiatus and do what some shows are doing now: back to back new episodes until the season is done.

No idea if this was a widespread problem but my DVR totally failed to recognise this weeks episode as new. If it is widespread it could also hit the live+ ratings.

I think aside from the online bunch, no one realized SV would be new.

I agree with the comment that shows should be back to back. I'm speculating that might be what the CW does with the remaining six episodes when it finally comes back. (Sadly, I'm hearing "Feb. 7" now for a return - a week later than originally hoped)

The "three weeks holiday hiatus" episode has only done well once in my memory - for "Lexmas." I could be wrong; I'm sure someone has better data there.

Hopefully they'll re-air "Gemini" in the week preceding "Persona" so no one is lost.

Same here. My brother actually called me last night before the show came on and he asked me if it was new because it wasn't coming up on his dvr either, and we have different cable providers. The only reason why he thought to call me to find out was because the description didn't sound like an old episode to him. But I'm sure there are a lot of people that didn't even bother to check the description.

My DVR didn't recognize either Smallville or Supernatural as new episodes last night. Thankfully, I checked and set the manual record before going out last evening or I would have been really upset.

It also can't help that Crowned was promoted out the wazoo in the days and weeks beforehand and there was scarce promotion for either SV or SPN.

Mine didn't either. But it did register Supernatural as new.

Finals:

I noticed on my Yahoo tv listing schedule last night, it marked Smallville as a repeat, although when you clicked on the listing it did say it was new. Still, if people are just glancing at the listings to decide what to watch, they might see "repeat" and automatically just skip it.

Ouchie. Didn't that happen with Lexmas, too? It seems these December one-shots don't work very well, ratings-wise.

Oh no! I hope that doesn't happen.

I think LEXMAS did fairly well, but that one was REALLY REALLY hyped. It didn't help that every other CW show ended last week, so there were no opportunities to put a commercial onto a new episode of REAPER (for example).




It sucks, but that makes sense if their is only going to be 6 episodes left. You run 3 in Feb, during sweeps and 3 at the end of April and first week of May. You have to have big breaks in between episodes, but at this point there really is no getting around it if you want to have the season end at the same time it usually does.

So no one here thinks the ratings tanked because we had a triple whammie:

1) Clark teaming up with Lana to take down Lex
2) A Nois-heavy eppy with Nois going all "reportor" to take down Lex
3) The blackhole of suck that is Chloe/Jimmy stuck in an elevator

I think it had something to do with it.

I think the low ratings have more to do with the lack of promotion, the screw up with the DVR's / Yahoo showing it as a repeat and the bad December placement. If I was not online, I would have had no idea there was a new episode this week. Lexmas did OK IIRC, but it had serious promotional muscle behind it. Of course, the WB actually ran ads for Smallville, which might have helped.

I hope this is enough to convince TPTB to stop putting a single lonely episode in the middle of a block of repeats. I did not like everything about Gemini, but there is no way it deserved to do worse than crap like Fierce or Action.

I think they should had rip off heroes and just make a season short this long hiatus are not good for the show or the fans.

IMO, No. While we were aware of what was going to happen to a point, the general public and NO idea that Nois was going to be featured as prominently. I just don't believe that any character, save Clark, can bring in higher ratings if the episode focus's on him/her. If this aired directly after BLUE and still posted 3.7 million viewers then I could say that your argument might be more valid. But, in all honestly, it probably had a lot to do with the fact that it was a new episode when NOBODY was looking for new episodes. Every other show is in repeats on the CW and other networks, so unless you are online you had NO idea it was coming back. Especially when the CW just doesn't promote the show anymore beyond a trailer here or there.

I agree, given the lack of promos, no one had any reason to think those things were going to happen in the episode. It's a Monday morning quarterback argument.

People might tune out at the half hour mark, but I think the general public is pretty spoiler free. Viewers are kind of in the mode right now that everything is in reruns. I just don't think people were expecting a new episode this week.

Thanks for the reply guys.

Do we have the numbers for the half hour mark? Did the ratings go up or down?

Hard to say what was the reason, IMO. Blue was almost as awful as Promise, so I wouldn't be surprised if people decided not to watch Gemini even if they knew that it was not a repeat.

Also, Supernatural managed to keep their ratings stable (though it is also their lowest-rated episode this season). So I'm thinking it's both reasons for Smallville - bad promotion and a bad episode before.

Poor Gemini - why do decent episodes suffer so often?

But it's much easier for Supernatural to keep their ratings stable since they only average a little more than 3 million to begin with. Less viewers means the numbers can't fall as greatly as Smallville.

Thought that I would post this here. Tv Guide reported today that Lost will premier Thursday January 31, 2008 at 9pm. So Smallville will not be up against Lost but Supernatural will. Here's the link...

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV...s-New/800029364

I disagree. In fact the rating for the last new episodes of SN/SV were:

11/15/07
Supernatural: 2.89 m
Smallville: 4.49 m

And the lastest episodes of each this week were:

12/13/07
Supernatural (Viewers: #5, 3.20 million; A18-49: #5, 1.2/ 3)
Smallville (Viewers: #5, 3.84 million; A18-49: #4, 1.5/ 4)

Supernatural's numbers went up and Smallville's went down significantly. SN was preempted in Denver; was SV?

The fast nationals don't take account of pre-emptions and the Denver pre-emption seems to have boosted Supernaturals ratings as they were nearer 3 million when the finals came out. Smallville's finals were a touch down on the fast national estimates also.

Finals

SMALLVILLE 2.5/4 1.5/4 3,710,000 1.6/5
SUPERNATURAL 2.0/3 1.2/3 3,016,000 1.2/3

Here's an old post that includes final ratings for Lexmas, for comparison.

Per zap2it.com, Lost will be shown on Thursdays. (ooops!...it's already posted)

Whoa...Lexmas did way better.

You missed my point. Supernatural stays within 3 million to about 3.3 million each week. They rarely dip below that. If SPN dips from 3.3 to 2.9 it doesn't seem as bad because SPN's numbers are already very low. Whereas if Smallville goes from 4.1 to 3.7 it looks worse. I don't know why, but it just does, IMO. SPN's audience is very steady, Smallville's fluctuate.

You also see waaaaayyy more SPN trailers during the week compared to Smallville. It probably has something to do with SPN taking money out of their own budget to market it themselves.

I love SPN, I wish it was in the 4's so I would know it was coming back. It's a great show, and it's getting better.

I don't even think they had anything below 3 millions this season. The show is going pretty strong - they almost got 4 millions for the premiere.


Now we may add here Episode 08 - 3.02 million. So Supernatural lost about 5% of their audience, while Smallville lost about 18%.

Hope Lost won't put Supernatural below 3 mln level - season three is too good to be the last one.

Ah, I see your point now. See, for me, a 0.4 drop when the show pulls low 3's is worst than a 0.4 drop when the show pulls in 4-5. Why? Because the viewer retention in the first case is worse.

Here's a post with last season's numbers. Was Subterranean promoted more than Gemini? Maybe it didn't suffer from the pains of being listed as a repeat like Gemini did.

IIRC, it got hardly any promotion at all, and they stuck it in the middle of the hiatus (out of filming order) in a deliberate effort to bury it. So maybe it was being listed as a repeat, or maybe it's simply that "Smallville" has been so mediocre lately that people just can't be bothered to hunt it down. Too bad, really; as much as I didn't like Gemini, I think it was better than "Subterranean."

On the up side, the show's still doing better than the end of last season (excluding the finale) did, ratingswise.

Were Grey's and CSI new? Those things could have helped SPN too. Either way, I don't think it's fair to put the blame on a character or even a particular episode here - it just didn't have the best timing or promotion... though I didn't see promos for SPN either really.

The "routine" of watching Smallville was lost yet again... 3 weeks in, who would know the show was new, especially if the DVR says it's not?

Much as I'd hate to wait for later, the CW would do well by promoting "we have six new episodes in a row while everyone else is in repeats" - whenever that may happen. If Lost is a 2-hour premiere on Jan. 31, that could explain the whole delaying "Persona" thing.

The CW hasn't spent a dime on promoting SV this year, or so it seems. But with their new eps of other shows dwindling, I really think they should get a clue and put just a bit more effort in promoting SV's final 6. It could be just about their last gasp of newly scripted shows until this writers strike is over. And that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

SV might be one of the ONLY shows with a good run this Spring... that's definitely worth promoting. Factor in James Marsters, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Pete, no super shippy episodes, and possibly a major guest actress as Patricia Swann... and that should be very good for ratings. And who knows, the biggest spoilers might not even be out yet.

I just hope the CW is smart enough to figure that out. It seems like Smallville has gotten zero promotion this year, compared to all the new series and reality shows. Six new episodes up against repeats on the other netwroks could being some serious ratings... if anyone knows they are on.

I moved a reply to this over to the spoilers thread.

Please, tell me I'm reading this hollywoodreporter article wrong and Smallville isn't going to be after Reaper on Thursday, taking Supernatural's usual time slot!

Whew! They don't...Reaper replaces Supernatural.

Which is a shame..Because they get away from House, only to be up against Grey's and LOST. So much for another new show I liked. First Journeyman (NBC are fucking idiots), and now Reaper.

Wait! So Supernatural is going on Hiatus? That's .... not good.

Does anyone know when the next new Smallville episode is airing? I thought it was going to air this coming Thursday and then I read something about it airing on the 31st?