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EllyF
Sure, it's possible to find out stuff about a show before it airs. But people who are invested enough in a TV series to hunt up online spoilers are probably going to watch the show regardless... I mean, who are we kidding? If only to log on and complain about it.


Not necessarily true. I think a lot of online SV fans were using spoilers last year as a way to decide if they wanted to watch the episode or not, once the season made its turn into awfulness. I know I skipped a couple, based on spoilers.
gobatara
I know I'll skip a few....or a lot depending how Lanaville develops...basing in spoilers
KSiteCraig500
As of Season 4, "Devoted", a Chloe centric episode, was the highest rated episode of the season with 6.2 million viewers. "Blank" had 4.6 million viewers, which was higher than the previous episode, "Spirit" (4.4). In season five, "Thirst" had 5.8 million viewers, which was higher than the next episode, "Exposed" (5.4). "Tomb" had 5.4 million viewers, the same rating as the previous episode, "Vengeance". In season 6, "Freak" had 4.76 million viewers, higher than the previous episode, "Trespass" (4.74). "Progeny" had 3.98 million viewers which was higher than the following episode "Nemesis" (3.88).

Contrast that with Lois-centric episodes after her introduction: S4: "Lucy" had 4.5 million viewers, s5: "Exposed" had 5.4 million viewers and s6: "Prototype" had 3.43 million viewers, making it the lowest rate episode ever.

So I'm not really seeing how Chloe centric eps have a bad effect on the ratings.


See, I tend to think ratings often are dependent on what came the week before. Of course "Exposed" would score lowly, considering it followed what many believed to be one of the worst episodes of the show. (Personally, I loved "Thirst" because it was so fun!)

"Spirit" was popular for the most part, so of course those people would tune in the next week.

"Prototype" followed "Noir" which despite being a lot of fun and a great looking episode, turned off a lot of people at the same time with its different style. I was shocked when that was one of the top five choices for "Worst Episode" at K-Site this past year.

Though that doesn't explain why "Freak" scored higher than "Trespass," since that episode was ... blah.

There are a lot of factors, and we've gone over them over and over, but I don't think you can really blame things on characters or 'ships. Would that mean "Aqua" scored so well because people love Lois? Not necessarily.

That being said though... I think they're making a BIG mistake not keeping Lana away longer than she is. And i mean that for the people that DO like Lana, too. There's really no drama in her not even missing an episode, and I think once the "How will Lana come back?" mystery is quickly resolved a lot of the new people who tuned in might not care anymore.
lexualhealing
Holy cow. That's amazing. Is "Lineage" the highest rated episode in SV history?


Yep. I recall everyone talking about that trailer, not just the online people either.
steefvaniersel
Hey guys!
Does Fierce air tonight in Canada?
Or whas that just last week that they showed it on wednesday?
-x-
PolarB
No, Fierce is airing tomorrow night (Thursday) at 10pm, due to provincial election coverage tonight. It's back on Wednesdays at 8pm next week with Cure.
angry dwarf
When Chloe is heavy in episodes, those episodes tend to suck. And I'm pretty sure the ratings back me up on this. Chloe should be in mostly C plots, and some B plots, but never in A plots.


*Frown*. Chloe's been involved in the A plot since almost the Pilot. She almost always forms the bridge to "who dunnit" that lets Clark save the day starting right at Episode 1. It's pretty rare that an Episode focuses exclusively on her and they certainly don't score comparitively low enough to justify that statement. There is a difference between being in the A plot and being the A plot. That's cool though. My personal opinion is that Lois belongs in the "F" plot to correlate with her grades so I guess we're all even =p.

That's kind of like me pointing out that the show lost close to half it's viewers after Lois was introduced and blaming her for it. No evidence what-so-ever.

I don't know if it's indicative of course since it's a small segment of the audience but most of the people I know that gave up on this show did so due to stagnation. They got sick of the Clana merry-go-round, the continual Lex is he good is he bad or any other number of plotlines that seem to start but then just end up back at the status quo by the Season end or premier.
ganya
If the writers were capable of writing a compelling arc of episodes that engage the viewers, it would do more to increase ratings than increasing screentime of particular characters. If you have an entire episode centered around Clark or Lex whining about Lana, it's going to turn people off even though Clark or Lex is banking tons of screentime. When there's mystery and intrigue with the events of one episode impacting the next, it will give the show it's best chance to increase ratings. Al/Miles are either too lazy or lack the vision to pursue this track.
Littlbit
Al/Miles are either too lazy or lack the vision to pursue this track.
I think some of the writers that they have now have the lack of vision. I think Al/Miles have the vision but are too lazy to stop the writers from writing the Lana whining.
Tzigone
Curious as to how folks think this week's ep will reflect on next week's ratings. It has Dean Cain. But I know he's not exactly the most gigantic draw, even if I like him. Also a Chloe-ep. But following up this, I just don't know what to expect.

Bit curious as to first half-hour v. second for "Fierce"
brunette girl
If the writers were capable of writing a compelling arc of episodes that engage the viewers, it would do more to increase ratings than increasing screentime of particular characters.

Exactly. These days, I watch the show to see what'll happen to Chloe - and yet, the episode that turned me into a SV fan and still ranks in the top 3 of my all-time favorite eps is "Memoria" - which had no Chloe in it. It did have a tight, intriguing storyline and some kick-ass character moments, though, and that was strong enough to get me interested in the series. The writing and characterization should count above all else - if that's executed well, there will be little squabbling about who gets how much screentime, because you'll still feel satisfied as a viewer.
Dustmite
Non mytho supportive characters do not bring in viewers or at least cannot sustain them.


Can you back up that statement with some proof? Smallville is watched for a multitude of reasons and not all it's viewers are huge mythos fans. Chloe is part of the Smallville story and not developing her character simply because she is not part of the mythos would be bad storytelling IMO.
RepairmanBob
Curious as to how folks think this week's ep will reflect on next week's ratings. It has Dean Cain. But I know he's not exactly the most gigantic draw, even if I like him. Also a Chloe-ep. But following up this, I just don't know what to expect.

Bit curious as to first half-hour v. second for "Fierce"
After Fierce? Next week's ratings are screwed like Clark and Lex playing Hide the Dillo. That episode made some of the season six clunkers look bad.
angry dwarf
After Fierce? Next week's ratings are screwed like Clark and Lex playing Hide the Dillo. That episode made some of the season six clunkers look bad.


Yup I agree. There were so many non-sensicals last night that my wife who's been a pretty ardent fan for a while was ready to tune out from frustration of just not understanding the whole Lana resurrection. Next weeks ratings will probably dive followed by a healthy amount of "Chloe episodes" don't sell posts. /sigh.
Bitterswete
I agree that the episode that aired before has some effect on an episodes ratings. In fact, it has a lot, especially for casual viewers. But I think an episode that has other things going for it (a good guest star, focus on a character lots of fans like, promise of some kind of suprise or revelation, or just a promo that kicks behind) can overcome a bad "lead in" ep.

Dean Cain might not be a mega-star, but I've seen a fair amount of excitement for his appearance on SV. In fact, a couple of former SV viewers (and L&C fans) intend tune in to SV for the first time in a while to see his appearance.

And, oddly, the fact that a lot of people seemed to expect "Fierce" to suck might help. Even before it aired, a lot of people seemed to have decided to ignore it (or watch it but accept it was going to be bad) and just skip ahead to "Cure." In fact, only the fans of a particular character seemed to feel any real anticipation for this ep.
Massena1
OCTOBER 12, 2007
The Programming Insider
Marc Berman

Prime-Time Metered Market Thursday Ratings:
CBS Wins; ABC Has Sprung a Leak at 10 p.m.

Thursday 10/11/07
Note: The following results are based on the metered market ratings.
Note: The fast national results for Thursday will be posted at PIFeedback by 12 p.m.

-Ratings Breakdown:
CBS dominated this third Thursday of the new season in the overnights, beating No. 2 ABC by a healthy 21 percent. But the strength of Grey’s Anatomy could still be enough to lift ABC to first among adults 18-49 once the fast affiliate results are posted at PIFeedback. Third was NBC, which is expected to exhibit some muscle in adults 18-49 thanks to The Office, followed by Fox and the CW. Keep in mind that the year-to-year decline for Fox is a result of game one of the National League Championship Series (New York Mets vs. St. Louis Cardinals).

CBS’ still potent Survivor: China opened the evening with a first-place 8.4 rating/13 share at 8 p.m. While ABC’s Ugly Betty finished a not-so-distant No. 2 in the time period (7.4/12), year-to-year that was a loss of 33 percent (11.0/17 on 10/12/06). Comparably, Survivor: China was down by 12 percent from the Cook Islands edition (9.5/15 to 8.4/13).

Also in the 8 p.m. hour was Fox sleeper Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? (#3, 5.7/ 9), which remains a vast improvement over anything the network has aired here in years, NBC duo My Name is Earl (#4: 5.1/ 8) and 30 Rock (#4: 4.3/ 7), and the CW’s Smallville (#5: 3.4/ 5). While I will reserve any judgment on the NBC comedies until I see the fast affiliate results, I have a confession to make: I am starting to really like 30 Rock. For more on those thoughts, listen to today’s PIPodcast at either Mediaweek.com or PIFeedback.


Source: www.mediaweek.com
SueB
Prime-Time Ratings:
Thursday 10/11/07

The following results are based on the fast affiliate ratings (Live Plus Same Day data)

-Total Viewers:
CBS: 15.75 million, ABC: 12.75, NBC: 8.17, Fox: 6.88, CW: 3.99

-Adults 18-49:
ABC: 5.0 rating/13 share, CBS: 4.7/12, NBC: 3.7/10, Fox: 2.1/ 5, CW: 1.5/ 4

----------

Note: Any prior rating results are based on the final nationals. Also, since the level of DVR penetration has increased from 9 percent in early 2006-07 to approximately 20 percent at present, the overall results may be negatively impacted.

----------

-Yesterday’s Winners:
Survivor: China (CBS), CSI (CBS), Grey’s Anatomy (ABC), The Office (NBC), Without a Trace (CBS)

-Honorable Mention:
Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? (Fox)

-Yesterday’s Losers:
Big Shots (ABC), ER (NBC)

----------

-Ratings Breakdown:
ABC and CBS remained in the winner’s circle on this third Thursday of the 2007-08 season, with CBS the most-watched network and ABC No. 1 among adults 18-49. Third overall was NBC, followed by Fox and the CW.

CBS’ still potent Survivor: China opened the evening first in both total viewers (14.00 million) and adults 18-49 (4.5 rating/13 share). ABC’s second-place Ugly Betty was also on the map, with 10.35 million viewers and a 3.5/10 among adults 18-49. But compared to one year earlier (Viewers: 13.95 million; A18-49: 4.3/12 on Thursday, Oct. 12, 2006) that was a loss of a hefty 3.60 million viewers and 19 percent in the demo. Comparably, Survivor: China was down by 1.84 million viewers and 18 percent among adults 18-49 from the Cook Islands edition one year earlier (Viewers: 15.84 million; A18-49: 5.5/15).

Also in the 8 p.m. hour was Fox sleeper Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? (Viewers: #3, 8.16 million; A18-49: #4, 2.3/ 7), which remains a vast improvement over anything the network has aired here in years, NBC duo My Name is Earl (Viewers: #3, 7.74 million; A18-49: #3, 3.1/ 9) and 30 Rock (Viewers: #4, 6.61 million; A18-49: #3, 3.0/ 8), and the CW’s Smallville (Viewers: #5, 4.75 million; A18-49: #5, 1.9/ 5). While the NBC comedies are certainly not mass appeal hits, almost full adult 18-49 retention for 30 Rock out of My Name is Earl is a positive worth noting.

Leadership, as usual, was shared at 9 p.m. as follows:

Thursday 9 p.m.
CSI (CBS)
Viewers: 19.63 million (#1), A18-49: 6.0/14 (#2)

Grey’s Anatomy (ABC)
Viewers: 18.65 million (#2), A18-49: 7.7/18 (#1)

A one-hour edition of NBC’s competing The Office (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #3, 4.7/11) got plenty of leverage among adults 18-49 despite facing the top two rated shows on television.

Also airing at 9 p.m. was Fox game show Don’t Forget the Lyrics (Viewers: #4, 5.60 million; A18-49: #4, 1.8/ 4), and the CW’s Supernatural (Viewers: #5, 3.23 million; A18-49: #5, 1.2/ 3), which managed to stay somewhat alive in the toughest hour in prime-time.

CBS’ veteran Without a Trace was first in the 10 p.m. hour in total viewers, but second behind ABC’s Big Shots among adults 18-49. Third overall was NBC’s needs-to-retire ER. Take a look:

Thursday 10 p.m.
Without a Trace (CBS)
Viewers: 13.63 million (#1), A18-49: 3.6/10 (#2)

Big Shots (ABC)
Viewers: 9.26 million (#2), A18-49: 3.9/11 (#1)

ER (NBC)
Viewers: 8.41 million (#3), A18-49: 3.4/ 9 (#3)

Big Shots remains in the loser’s circle despite the first-place finish among adults 18-49 because of a) poor retention out of Grey’s Anatomy of 50 percent in total viewers and 51 percent among adults 18-49, and b) a loss of audience in the second half hour of 3.02 million viewers (10.77 to 7.75 million) and 30 percent among adults 18-49 (4.6/12 to 3.2/ 9). Since part of the 10 p.m. half-hour included the last few minutes of Grey’s Anatomy, it is obvious this drama is a miss.

NBC, meanwhile, should be announcing the retirement of ER any day now.

Source: Nielsen Media Research data


Sign-up now for my next webcast, Mr. TV's Fall 2007 Update, at http://www.nielsencast.com/ws/content_disp...2196bc4b39297f7
Kahhhn
I figured on a bit of a rebound. One, because there wasn't a baseball game on until 830 eastern. Two, curiosity over Lana's return. Three, I thought that if Kara was well received among the viewers then people will still tune in.


Half hour breakdowns..As usual, SMallville goes up and Supernatural goes down. It's very odd how people seem to lose interest in Supernatural as the show progresses and yet 500,000 more people tune into the last half hour of Smallville.

Smallville
8:00 p.m. V: 4.50 million, A18-49: 1.7/ 5
8:30 p.m. V: 5.00 million, A18-49: 2.0/ 5

Supernatural
9:00 p.m. V: 3.32 million, A18-49: 1.2/ 3
9:30 p.m. V: 3.14 million, A18-49: 1.2/ 3
Bitterswete
Half hour breakdowns..As usual, SMallville goes up and Supernatural goes down. It's very odd how people seem to lose interest in Supernatural as the show progresses and yet 500,000 more people tune into the last half hour of Smallville.


Actually, a Nielson viewer only has to watch 10 minutes of a show to be counted in the ratings for that show. Most 8 pm shows show an increase in the second half hour because many viewers tune in for the show after it ten minutes (or more) early.

This is so common that, when an 8 pm show goes down in it's second half hour, it's considered pretty unusual.
megan
Smallville is an action show and the set up is normally slow so catching the last half of the culmination for the action early set up is natural,
Supernatural, OTH no matter the action level, is primarily a Suspense/Horror show and the most gripping part is the early discovery and fear, but in the end you know they'll prevail and you don't really need to know how.
Bitterswete
Smallville is an action show and the set up is normally slow so catching the last half of the culmination for the action early set up is natural,
Supernatural, OTH no matter the action level, is primarily a Suspense/Horror show and the most gripping part is the early discovery and fear, but in the end you know they'll prevail and you don't really need to know how.


It's more that, just like 8 pm shows routinely go up in the second half hour, shows that air in the last hour of network programming (the 9pm show, in CW's case) routinely go down. That's because yes, some viewers do check out early for many reasons. And there's no one tuning in ten minutes early for the local news to make up for the dip. Every CW 9pm show tends to go down in it's second half hour.
megan
That's because yes, some viewers do check out early for many reasons. And there's no one tuning in ten minutes early for the local news to make up for the dip. Every CW 9pm show tends to go down in it's second half hour.

Duh, I forgot they were showing the same day, one after the other. And yes, many regions have their news starting 9:30p now to edge competition 10p.
Littlbit
Final numbers for Fierce according to pifeedback.com

Smallville
- 4.819 million viewers
- 2.9/5 HH
- 1.9/5 A18-49
- 2.1/7 A18-34
Durq
So "Fierce" came pretty close to matching the ratings of "Wither" (4.88 million), which was the third episode last year.

Perhaps Dean Cain will be a draw next week?
SJ0126
Sometimes I wonder if Smallville gets a second half bump up because I know of a bunch of Supernatural fans who just watch the second half because they're bored before it starts.

I personally blame Supernatural going down as maybe showing how people record it and then go watch another crappy tv show or something? I don't know, ratings confuse me.
scout1279
Maybe Smallville gets a second half bump up because people turn it on after My Name Is Earl because they are too dumb to realize that they need to be watching 30 Rock.
Bitterswete
Starting this season, they're going to be counting the DVR ratings for all the shows. Anyone with a Nielson box who DVRs a show and watches it within seven days will be counted. Of course, that means we have to wait a while for the final final ratings totals. These first DVR ratings will be out on October 16th, and the networks are waiting for those to make any real decisions about any shows.
atem
The CW renewed GG with their ratings, so it's a no brainer for SV getting a full season. But, I'm hoping someone gets real and just stops it at 7 seasons!

I also read that the black comedies like Girlfriends and The Game are doing very much better for the CW. Which I actually think is a good thing. They might as well go back to repeating SV on Sundays, because those shows are tanking big time.
Digizane20
The only mystery I walk away from this network is why it's still around and why Supernatural loses to Smallville.
steefvaniersel
Heej guys,
Is it true that the cw airs cure tonight in Wisconsin?
There is a wisconsin trailer for cure, wich says tonight on wisconsin CW.
Can someone tell me if this is true..
thank you
-x-
Littlbit
Perhaps Dean Cain will be a draw next week?
I think he might. I know a few people who don't normally watch SV but are going to next week because they love DC. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on if you want a season 8) Cure isn't being shown during a sweeps month. I don't understand what goes on in the minds of TPTB. And I don't think I want to.
acampbell
I'm just curious to see if the ratings go down next week after "Fierce."
Prospero
Stupid ratings, why can't they go down?

The only mystery I walk away from this network is why it's still around and why Supernatural loses to Smallville.

Supernatural has a much worse timeslot (IMO, the worst timeslot of the week). Since "quality" has nothing to do with Smallville, this is the only possible explanation.
Glory
Perhaps Dean Cain will be a draw next week?

I think he might. I know a few people who don't normally watch SV but are going to next week because they love DC. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on if you want a season 8) Cure isn't being shown during a sweeps month. I don't understand what goes on in the minds of TPTB. And I don't think I want to.


I know I posted over in the L&C thread that Dean was going to be on Smallville so I'm expecting a handful of people that don't normally tune in, will.

I guess my only question is: how high do the ratings need to be to justify such an expensive show coming back on the air next year? I'm correct in assuming that Smallville is one of the CW's most expensive shows, right?
EllyF
I guess my only question is: how high do the ratings need to be to justify such an expensive show coming back on the air next year?


The articles I've seen seem to suggest that the ratings it's pulling now would be plenty high enough. It's far and away their highest-rated scripted show right now. In short, it's really all they've got.

I have no doubt at this point that SV season 8 could happen, especially since the ratings seem to be holding steady (I have a feeling DC's presence will counteract any possible drop that might have occurred due to "Fierce"). What I wonder about, like others, is if the CW itself will be around next year. Because they've shown a terrible inability to launch a new hit, or even a new semi-hit. I just don't see why the network's investors would be willing to give it another year at this point.
Bitterswete
Supernatural has a much worse timeslot (IMO, the worst timeslot of the week).


SPN is going up against Gray's Anatomy and CSI, two of the highest rated shows on television at the moment. It's also up against The Office, which appeals to the same demographic. It's a killer timeslot.

What I wonder about, like others, is if the CW itself will be around next year. Because they've shown a terrible inability to launch a new hit, or even a new semi-hit. I just don't see why the network's investors would be willing to give it another year at this point.


I'd expect to see a major shake-up among the CW heads before the network actually folded. It also wouldn't surprise me if the investors went in expecting to give the network at least 3 to 5 years to find its legs. Well, as long as it wasn't a complete disaster. (It's sort of a disaster, but not a complete one.)
hc_8
Zap2it has an article about the live + 7 days ratings for premiere week. They don't give any numbers for Smallville other than to say it climbed from the 76th most watched show for the week to the 70th most watched show. The ratings that the advertisers are actually going to use this year (live + 3 days) are due for release next week.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-premiere...-news-headlines
ScrappyTheOwl
The CW’s most played back show was the season-premiere of Smallville, with 841,000 additional viewers (representing 15.0 percent of the total DVR contribution).

Via Marc Berman.
realtime
Hi

Does anyone have an idea of when the network will most likely confirm an 8th season.
Kahhhn
Doesn't usually happen until later in the season...sometimes not until the season is over.
cdw
So added with the dvr numbers, Bizarro's final rating was 6.025 million.
PolarB
Does anyone have an idea of when the network will most likely confirm an 8th season.

Al has stated that he and Miles need to know by November (though I'm not sure if that's the beginning or by the end of the month), so they can plan the back half of the season accordingly, either into an eighth season or to the end of the series. Whether that means they'll announce it to the public at the same time, I don't know.
realtime
Thanks PolarB
Kahhhn
Well, with those DVR numbers we now know what happened to the missing 1 million from the WB.
megan
How do they get DVR numbers? From TiVO or local digital cablebox subscibers?
hc_8
The DVR numbers are from the boxes of the Nielsen sample only.
Bitterswete
Someone somewhere figured out that 20% of American households have DVRs. So, now, 20% of all Nielsen families have DVRs. And the DVR numbers are counted and calculated just like other ratings are. Only you have to wait a while for them because they're waiting to see who actually watched the shows they DVRd within the seven day limit.
hc_8
Actually I think the 20% comes from the proportion of Nielsen families with DVRs this year, rather than Nielsen going out and deliberately recruiting the proportion. Now if the Nielsen system is representative the proportion of Nielsen families with DVRs should be the same as the proportion in the general population but I've not seen any figures on that.
PolarB
Because A Channel can't make up it's mind, Smallville moves up to 9pm on Wednesdays starting next week.
pyralis
PolarB because that's just how A-Channel is :) Were you around for the last go-round of moves in Season 5? It ended up on Saturday at 5:00 at one point.
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