I remember my daughter commenting last season that as far as she was concerned, by showing Lana kissing Lex and in bed with Clark, they were making her look like a tramp/slut. I couldn't place the "hugging" scene till you mentioned where it was from, BadToad. I thought: when did Lana ever look that HAPPY? Makes me wonder if they picked it to make her appear more attractive and "innocent".

None of the new CW shows seem to be catching fire. I really wonder if this station will even be around next year. I saw that Univision beat the CW in overall ratings yesterday and CW was 6th out of 6 of the networks!

I think one of the CW's basic problems is that a lot of people don't know what the hell it is. I bet you could ask a dozen people if they watched the CW, and a large chunk of them would say, "Is that some new show? Never heard of it."

So the CW has to make itself known by advertising itself in the media an on other networks. Hey, if Lifetime can run ads on Food Network, so can the CW.

The CW also needs to create a stronger identity. Say what you will about the WB, it had a strong image, a look and a vibe. This generic, toxic green thing the CW has going on just isn't working.

CW final ratings for the week of Sept. 24-30

So long, America's Next Top Model..

CW.........Overall .........Program .......... Viewers
1...............76. Smallville CW 5.18
2...............79. America's Next Top Model 3 (Wed) CW 4.89
3...............84. Friday Night Smackdown CW 4.22
4...............92. Reaper (Tue) CW 3.28
5...............96. Beauty and the Geek CW 2.98

6.............102. Reaper (Thu) Encore CW 2.53
7.............103. Gossip Girls (Wed) CW 2.48
8.............112. Everybody Hates Chris (8pm) CW 1.83
9.............113. Everybody Hates Chris (8:30 CW 1.78
10...........114. The Game CW 1.74

11...........116. Girlfriends CW 1.52
12...........124. America's Next Top Model 3 (Sun) CW 1.10
13...........140. CW Now CW 0.79
14...........141. Gossip Girl (Sun) CW 0.78

It does make one wonder if a decent promotional push for SV would've increased that number even further. But man, I know the failure of Gossip Girl just amuses me to no end.

Another problem for the CW network is that it isn't available in all areas. I can't recieve it, not even with DirectTV. There isn't a local affiliate in my area and because I can recieve "any" local stations at all, I can't pay a little extra to subscribe to the CW station (in New York I think) that DirectTV offers. It really sux.

If Smallville was on a station like cbs, nbc, or fox, their ratings would not have dipped below a 10.0 for every episode thus far.

Here are the ratings from last night.

Beauty and the Geek
- 2.694 million viewers
- 1.8/3 HH
- 1.3/4 A18-49
- 1.5/5 A18-34

Reaper
- 2.860 million viewers
- 1.8/3 HH
- 1.4/3 A18-49
- 1.6/4 A18-34

Reaper premiered with 3.28 million viewers, so it was down a bit. And it seems like a lot of viewers didn't like the second episode nearly as much as the pilot, which could be worrying for that show.

I'm actually surprised Reaper didn't do better. In fact, I wouldn't have minded if Reaper did well, and the CW decided genre shows were the way to go. Maybe then Supernatural and SV would get more attention.

Reaper needs to get away from Beauty quickly. That lead in is killing them. The fact that it did SO well behind Smallville as a repeat makes me think that it should be moved behind Smallville and Supernatural should take over the Tuesday at 9 slot. A slot that they did very well in before. With GG tanking fast (thank you God for small miracles), REAPER is their only shot at a hit. It needs all the help it can get right now, and that help should come from Smallville.

The CW has to realize that if both of those shows fail, then their network is doomed, much earlier than all have predicted except for a couple smart people on here ;)

And for those of you who get it - The SW Ont. A-Channel showed "Kara" tonight - maybe it will last longer than a couple of weeks, but with the A-Channel you never know.

Watched "Kara" tonight on A-Channel. I liked it. Can't wait to post in the episode thread tomorrow night.

As for the CW, I kind of hope Gossip Girl doesn't bomb if the network's survival is pinned on it. I have no interest in watching it, just to be clear, and the spiteful Smallville and Supernatural fan in me is gleeful that their ubiquitous advertising didn't seem to help that much. (Although to be fair, perhaps if they hadn't advertised it up the wazoo nobody would have watched it at all). But I don't want the network to go under because of one word : "Supernatural".

Supernatural is just too awesome to be doomed. But in it's 4th year it would be unlikely to be picked up by another network should the CW go under at the end of this season.
Also, while I totally understand the fans who feel that they want Smallville to end this season, I personally wouldn't mind if they got an 8th season. As long as Season 7 and that 8th season turn out to be awesome.

While broadcast networks seem more likely to pick up a show from another network if it's only a season or less old, cable networks have been known to pick up shows in their fourth or fifth season. I don't think they much care as long as it seems like a) they can get two or even three more seasons out of tje show, and b) the show will do well in the ratings.

But, right now, my motto is, "If keeping Supernatural (and SV too, if it's good this season) means keeping the CW, then I want to keep the CW." :D

I have nothing against the shows the CW pimped so hard this year. I'm just a tad bitter that they ignored everything else to pimp those shows, and it didn't even pay off.

Is it wrong that this amuses me to no end? I hope not.

I agree with Kahhhn that Reaper is a bad match with Beauty and the Geek - totally different audiences. I would move BatG to after ANTM (audiences are more similar), and pair Reaper with Smallville on Thursdays. It is a new series, and could use the "golden" slot (or as close as the CW has to a golden slot). Supernatural will get pretty stable ratings no matter what night it is on. It was a consistent performer last season, even during Smallville's ratings tanked post-Promise. ITA. Plus, I like Supernatural, and I want to keep watching it.

Fixed for accuracy - thanks Kahhn.

Cool...But REAPER is paired with Beauty and the Geek. ;)

Looks like the CW has made a decision indicating that the network will be around past this season.

Hmmm... Does this mean no more Supes or Bats on Saturday mornings?

*sigh* I'm getting old. Remember when there were still Saturday morning cartoons on the big three - ABC, CBS, and NBC?

Some of the cartoons may continue. 4Kids does the programming for FOX Saturday morning, and if they continue to produce Legion of Superheroes and The Batman, they will likely end up there. Nothing has been decided yet though. It still sucks. Legion of Superheroes is awesome and The Batman has been steadily improving. It started becoming watchable around the time they added Batgirl, and moved up to fairly good with the introduction of Robin. The two-part season premier with Superman was a lot of fun. Also, Spectacular Spider-Man is going to be added to the line-up mid-season. It would be a shame for that to just go away. Although, if FOX ends up airing Batman, Spider-Man and the upcoming X-Men cartoon, it'll be just like the 90s again.

The early 90s were THE best age of cartoons/kid shows EVER. It won't ever be matched. Mighty morphin power rangers, the batman/superman adventures, gargoyles, goof troop, animaniacs, the simpsons, batman, duck tales, gummi bears, spiderman, x-men, garfield, pinky and the brain, where in the world is carmen sandiego, teenage mutant ninja turtles, alvin and the chipmunks, boy meets world, family matters, sabrina the teenage witch, the cosby show, chip n dale rescue rangers, step by step, ghost busters, pee-wee's playhouse ..ahhh... those were the days for 8-10 year olds. So much to watch, so much to choose from. And not just on saturday mournings, but every weekday mourning and afternoon, there was always something cool to watch.

How could you leave out The Tick? It's the greatest cartoon ever, and I'll sick the Man Eating Cow on anyone who says otherwise.

Also, Batman/Superman Adventures wasn't on until the late 90s. I know because I was starting college at the time and therefore could not physically wake up early enough to watch it. Thank Rao for DVDs.

Hee, I was coming home and watching Batman, Anamaniacs, Rescue Rangers, Pinky and the Brain, Tale Spin, Duck Tales, and Superman all through high school and well, beyond.

So, how did the episode do in ratings in Canada?

Where is Smallville airing in Canada? FOX 44 used to show CW from 10PM to 12 but that's over as of last week...

It airs on A Channel in Ontario and parts of BC, and also on SPACE, which I believe is nationwide.

SPACE isn't on cable here in Quebec so I guess I'll have to stick with my other methods. Thanks anyway !

From Zap2it. Fast nationals.



Was that a bit higher than last week? HAve to go check the thread.


Nope, it went down slightly from Bizarro..



Not a bad drop considering the Yankees were right in the middle of a playoff game. My guess is the final numbers are going to be very close. Which compared to the other shows on the network, which all saw lost viewers in their second week greater than Smallville's just goes to show you why the network doesnt' give them the promotion. We are going to be there no matter what.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/in...t&p=8905639

CTUN, I'm comparing fast nationals. Those numbers are different then the media week ones.

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/29410357

It took a dip in the second episode. I'm not surprised. Most shows do. Although SV has been able to buck this trend in the past. In S5, the second episode held up very strongly. Bummer that the name Supergirl didn't pull in an extra audience the way the male superheroes have.

Bionic Woman pulled in great numbers for the premiere, but this week it slid down a lot. Maybe the interest is waning quickly in superpowered chicks. Or maybe Bionic Woman stole her thunder.

And the way they are promoting next episode.....I don't expect an improvment

Bionic Woman is just plain bad though. I saw the unaired pilot at Comic Con and it was clunktastic and the TWOP boards are just overall very negative. Super-powered women can work but you have to have producers who can work the material.

Also, Lana coming back to take clark's balls is no way to get people to watch.

Half-hour breakdowns:

I saw a pilot for BW a while back, and it wasn't very good to me, either, so I'd agree on it not being the Superpowers that are the problem. Looking forward to the Sarah Connor Chronicles, though.

I sadly agree, but maybe we're wrong.

Oddly, I could see there being one. I'm really very curious to see how they play Lana's return to SV. How will she portray what happened? How will they receive her back? I find myself more interested in this than I thought I would be. Clana being romantic again makes me queasy, but I really want to know how Chloe reacts to Lana's return to see if there is any change. It just feels like everything should be different now.

The problem with superpowers/effects is the expense and Goughlar typically use up a lot of it for premiere/2nd episode and finales so . . . I think a lot of people know the rhythm of this series' seasons. Watch premiere/2nd episode for a more Super!Clark then things idle until near the finale so . . . I expect the 3rd episode to have a lower rating than the 2nd episode. I'm not being snarky, a lot of people note the whole "nth episode usually does blankety-blank." It's a bit too predictable.

Yes, the SCC is better than BW.

I'm not looking forward to Lanaville and how people 'react' to her coming back.

It looks like Smallville will be CW's number one show again this week. SV got 4.56 and ANTM got 4.52 according to pifeed. I think it will be interesting to see what the numbers are next week with the preview we got last night.

Sorry, I forgot about the wrestling show. They got 4.91 last week. It might end up being CW's number one show this week.

I really think that the Yankees game being right in the middle of their game during Smallville's airing put a bit of a hurting on it. At least a couple hundred thousand.

I still think that this show is going to get another year. The CW STILL doesn't have anything to replace it that's a viable money maker. And didn't ANTM consistenly beat Smallville last year? Are they up against tougher competition?

I'm not sure how much the return of Lana is going to hurt them. It may cause a drop next week, but if it's not nauseating then I can see the numbers holding steady.

FINAL NUMBERS...

From the "Kara" thread, cdw wrote...



As of Season 4, "Devoted", a Chloe centric episode, was the highest rated episode of the season with 6.2 million viewers. "Blank" had 4.6 million viewers, which was higher than the previous episode, "Spirit" (4.4). In season five, "Thirst" had 5.8 million viewers, which was higher than the next episode, "Exposed" (5.4). "Tomb" had 5.4 million viewers, the same rating as the previous episode, "Vengeance". In season 6, "Freak" had 4.76 million viewers, higher than the previous episode, "Trespass" (4.74). "Progeny" had 3.98 million viewers which was higher than the following episode "Nemesis" (3.88).

Contrast that with Lois-centric episodes after her introduction: S4: "Lucy" had 4.5 million viewers, s5: "Exposed" had 5.4 million viewers and s6: "Prototype" had 3.43 million viewers, making it the lowest rate episode ever.

So I'm not really seeing how Chloe centric eps have a bad effect on the ratings.

With the exception of Lana heavy soap opera episodes, I don't think ANY character has any kind of affect on the ratings.

Also, cdw I highly doubt that the higher ratings in season 1 had anything to do with the fact that Chloe was in only 1 or 2 scenes per episode. ;)

You are blaming Lois for this??? I mean if all the episodes before this one were around 4.7 millions and this was the only "fall" of the season I'd gave you the reason....but this was the poor bastard epsidoe that suffered the consecuences of a free fall ratings since Promise...no matter how good it was...so i don't think that this beong "Lois centric" had nothing to do with it.....even when IIRC she wans't even featured on the trailer.

If someone thinks the Chloe-heavy episodes suck, that is their opinion - cool. I certainly think the Lana-heavy episodes are crap. But the ratings do not support the position that Chloe = ratings death. None of the character-heavy episodes has much of an impact on the ratings, except for Clark / mythology episodes, which often do well.

There are lots of factors that impact episode ratings, bit internal (mythology and heroes score well, romance/teen angst not so much) and external (competition from other shows, Smallville not being shown in some markets, Spring ratings drop). But I disagree with the idea that Chloe hurts the ratings.

Blank was Clark centric. Devoted was Chloe centric? It was all about Clark and his football team's problems. Chloe got hooked on the juice and had some scenes, but was her screentime in the top 3? Thats what I would call a centric episode for someone. I'd need to look at the screentimes for that one. Spirit.. definately Chloe centric. Thirst was Lana centric. I'm tempted to say Jinx was Chloe centric, but I'll lean to no on that until I do some digging. The later half of season 6 was a gradual slide due to a lot of factors, and while I can just as easily say it was because of too much emphasis on Lana and Chloe, I think just about all the episodes were affected ratings wise. I do know that when there was more mythology focus in the beginning of season 6, that it proved to be a much greater ratings success. And thats what I am stressing, to get the show back on Lex and Clark. When this show gets away from Clark and Lex, it will suffer. When Lana is getting almost more than Clark, and Chloe is getting almost more than Lex.. you got a problem. Because it means more of that soap opera nonsense, and less mythology. Non mytho supportive characters do not bring in viewers or at least cannot sustain them.

And also let me say that I call bullshit on the fact that Chloe got more centric episodes last season than Lex. Thats so sickening I don't know how to put it in words.





You both are right to an extent. While no single character is the death of an episode, if a character that is disliked is promoted heavily in ads/promos for a particular episode that can cause the ratings to slide. I'm not implying this about Chloe though, she is well liked, on the internet at least. I do not think Chloe= ratings death. Instead I said that Chloe centric episodes suck worse than episodes that focus on their lead characters.

Like I said before, there was a time where Chloe got 2 scenes an episode. She never was the focus, she instead added to the plot, but the main focus was always Lex and Clark, with Lana having the B plots. And ya know what? The fans liked that. Kahhhn, you're right that Chloe's fewer screentime wasn't the sole determining factor in the show getting better ratings back then, but Lex's enhanced role was. The show had a clear pecking order. The most important characters were the ones getting most of the focus. Its their stories that were being told, and no one took away from their stories. Thats what we wanna see. Speaking as a 25 year old male, and I think I am in the age group that the CW wants to woo into watching their programs, I want to see Clark and Lex's journey. I enjoy Chloe's, Lana's, Jimmy's, Kara's, Lois' journey.. but I don't enjoy them anywhere near as much as Lex and Clark. They are where this show begins and ends. They are where the buck stops. They bring in the most audience, it their stories that drove this show when it was pulling in ridiculous ratings. Secondary/supportive characters should never over shallow them. Ever. Ever. In any season, ever.

When this show started there's a reason why they didn't say "Tune in to discover how smalltown journalist Chloe became a meteor freak!" Why? Because no one would have cared. I certaintly wouldn't. They built this thing on Clark and Lex' reputation.. on their name and star power. Thats what drew people in. Thats the most important story they can tell. You can see it starting back in season 4.. Chloe started getting more screentime, but its ok.. as long as she isn't equal to or too close to Lex's. Then season 5 comes and they inch closer together, and then finally last year and it gets ridiculous.

I'm telling ya, if this show paid more attention to Lex's journey this show would get so much better ratings. Lex's story is the most intriguing on the show, and definately the most complex. He and Lionel own any and every scene where they are together. And Lionel! Look at how little screentime he's getting these last 2 seasons. Besides Lex and Clark he's the best thing on this show, and look at his screentime. Notice the dip, and notice Chloe's increase over the last 2 seasons.. coincidence? Unbelieable. He and Lex's scenes are must-see. Like fine wine. They bring out such a brillance in each other. But no.. lets have less of that, and more of global reknown hacker Chloe and her melodrama about meteor freaks and her romantic issues with Jimmy and Clark. Yeah.. thats ratings. Ugh. Lana and Chloe.. for the last 3 seasons their screentimes/importance have gotten out of hand and the show has suffered for it. Al/Miles forgot who this show was suppose to be about.

More on this in the All season discussions thread.

You know, if you REALLY want to look into what caused Lex to start getting less screen-time it was Lois's arrival. She started it. Up until season 4 Lex was doing quite well with screen-time, especially in season 3. Well then Lois showed up, and they had to devote unnecessary episodes to her story. Episodes that took the focus away from Lex. In season 5, it was Brainiac at the beginning. By the end Lex was on the screen more and more because he was dating Lana. Season 6 saw him lose screen time, not because of Chloe, or Lana, or even Lois...But because of Green Arrow and his story. Now here we are in season 7, and Supergirl is here.

So if you are going to be mad about Lex's lack of screen time, I think a case can be made that it was Lois that actually started his decline.



On this, we are in absolute agreement. :)

I think we can all agree on that.

Interest thing about Lex-centric episodes - I like them too, they are not ratings winners. Memoria, Shattered - great season three lex episodes, but not great ratings. The same can be said for Oxny. Lexmas did OK, but like Promise that was more a sign of heavy promotions than episode quality. Of course, by season six Lex-centric had turned into Lana-centric with a side of Lex, but that is another issue altogether.Interesting point - Season four was when we started seeing more recurring characters started coming in (Lois, the Teagues). It is also when the ratings started to drop. Now, I don't think ED can be blamed for poor ratings - but I think it could be argued that whe the focus of the show shifted away from the main characters and the mythology (which does focus highly on Lex, Clark... and Chloe), and more into teen angst and romance (Lana, Clana, Lexana), that folks started to leave.

I like early season Lex, although he started getting real dumb in season four. But Lex, by himself, has never brought in the ratings - he needs to be part of well-promoted mythology episodes or event episodes. I would argue that Clark is probably the only regular character that can, on his own, increase ratings.

Just to be factual here, Lex's screentime actually increased from season 5 to season 6, not decreased. It was mainly Clark that took the huge dip in screentime in season 6, and yes, I think Green Arrow had a lot to do with that. But Lex's numbers actually went up.

I don't have the stats for S 1-4, but I can tell you that the biggest difference between season 5 and season 6 in screentime was that Clark's screentime plummeted. Significantlty. Lex, Lana, Chloe and Lois all saw screentime numbers increase in S6.

And IMO, Clark is the biggest ratings motivator there is. JMHO

Actually, you're both right. In Season One, Lex-centric episodes were ratings winners. Around Season Two (it started with Insurgence), Lex-centric episodes started to decrease in ratings. Of course, in the case of Insurgence, it went against the debut of American Idol and everyone took a ratings hit that night. I recall someone telling me the demos for Season 3 shifted from women and teen girls to boys and young men. I don't how true that is though.

Here's a chart at K-site of the ratings for all seasons. Click here

CLex, Luthors, & Chloe!ILLin the middle = MUST SEE TV in S1-3, 5
Clexana, Pod!Ma&Chloe, defanged-balled!Luthors= GoAway Never to be seen again TV -forgot to add shoed in useless to the lightswitched Nois.

From lexualhealing's K-site link:

Holy cow. That's amazing. Is "Lineage" the highest rated episode in SV history?

You know, looking at that list saddens me. The ratings for the first two seasons don't go below 5 million. In fact, the lowest rated episode in S2 is an astounding 5.9 million. Just, wow. The show had so much promise. How did TPTB let it go down the drain like that?

Ratings for a particular episode don't say anything about the popularity--let alone the quality--of that particular episode. People choose to watch a show before it airs. If they don't like it, they may not watch next week. Individual episodes of a TV show are not like movies or books. They are basically one-shot deals, sprung on an unsuspecting public.

Sure, it's possible to find out stuff about a show before it airs. But people who are invested enough in a TV series to hunt up online spoilers are probably going to watch the show regardless... I mean, who are we kidding? If only to log on and complain about it. As far as the general public goes, the decision whether or not to watch a particular episode is based on past experience with the series. Or there not being a game that night.