Interesting. Despite the pimping for all the shiny, new toys it was the forgotten teddy bear in the bottom of the toy chest that brought in decent ratings.

I checked on Zod and it was 4.96M with a 2.2 in the target demo. I would say the target demo went down a tad but I think the numbers are clearly the strongest drama they have.

I don't like that rule. I say this even though it would benefit Heroes.

Ratings over 5 million don't surprise me, since season premieres usually do well. We'll have to see how/if they keep the same or similar numbers as the season progressess.

Perhaps the re-vamped credits are intended to retain viewers from the premiere? There's certainly been a lot of buzz about them on various forums.

I actually thought they were going to do a completely new set of credits for the season, considering the number of changes we have in the cast right now. Oh well. What we have is good enough, I guess.

Honest question: Do credits really have that much effect on the ratings?

I love the fact that SV almost had double the ratings for the overhyped Gossip Girl. What was it Oliver said? "I was thinking of something with the word 'Justice' in it."

I thought the episode itself was pretty strong for people taking a sampling; the relationship angst didn't take over. I wish/hope that tells them something.

I was also very happy to see even Reaper's lead-out repeat almost did better than GG, though I still do think Supernatural is a good fit.

Can someone dumb down the ratings for those of us less fortunate to understand them as posted? Heh.

Thanks in advance.

I've never heard of them being seen as important for ratings (and don't forget many shows now don't bother with a credit sequence at all).

I doubt the credits themselves have any effect on ratings. It's possible that if MR and AM fans think the change in the credits implies stronger and more prominent roles for MR and AM, they might be more inclined to tune in and see if that's the case, and if those two characters are popular enough, it might have some effect on the ratings. Also, it seems to have gotten people talking on the forums, and that could conceivably have some effect on ratings too. But I think that's all pretty speculative, really, and I honestly doubt that would count for too much. I think the content of the show is a lot more important than the credits.

I remember when SV first moved to Thursdays a few seasons ago reading several articles talking about how despite generally lower ratings, it was a pretty big draw in the coveted young men demo. Does anyone know if this is still the case?

From http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/76510537

5.08 million is excellent. Good job SV. In your face, CW. If SV got half the promotion that those silly new shows reveived they would have gotten over 6 million viewers easily. I bet there were a lot of people that didn't know that the season premiere was last night. But they will know the show has started by next week.

Now lets build on those numbers next week.

Quite frankly I was utterly baffled. I hear at least 2 CW commercials on my to and from work (30 minute commute one way) and not kidding I never heard a single add for the SV premier. I must have heard at least 10 adds for "Gossip" or w/e that show about secrets and lies is.

I think either people got sick of the hype of GG or the pretty, rich kids with problems format. When I read the synopsis for GG, I couldn't bring myself to care about these people.

I didn't even read a thing about it. The first add I heard about it contained the line "there are so many secrets and lies" that I immediately said to myself that I get enough of that lol.

I had to tell my Dad that Smallville was coming back last night. He had no clue. I'm glad they topped 5 million again. It makes that nosedive after PROMISE really stand out. That the fans left in record numbers after that episode, but still came back when the show's focus is historically on Clark Kent and the mythology. That has to show them something.

That Smallville fans are astoundingly stubborn, and will come back to be kicked in the teeth over and over again?

Early indications are that Supergirl is a positive when it comes to the ratings, considering the fact that she has been heavily promoted. I'll throw Bizarro in there as well because I'm sure that people wanted to see him. All in all, this is a great start for Smallville. If these ratings can hold, which is a big "if", I know, it's possible that a big middle of the season Justice League episode could get near 6 million.

This is what I was thinking, Elly.


You'd hope! The montage at the end featured Clana staring at the moon - but it ended with Kara. A sign that Lana-pining is, for once, not the show's priority? It'll be interesting to see how "Kara" scores next week.

One very interesting thing about the credits is that they've taken out the Lana/Lex kissing, Lana/Clark waking up in bed scene. In fact, the only "romantic" Lana moment in the credits is AU Lana from "Labyrinth" hugging Clark. Is this significant? I have no clue. But I thought it was interesting.

Ratings have typically dived the last three seasons after the hiatus. SV usually doesn't seem to have an issue starting strong. It just seems to have an issue keeping people invested.

I think it means the 6 percent of all households watching TV were watching it (3.6 of all households were watching). That's how I understand the ratings to work.

Yes and no. They do go down after hiatus's, but nothing like what happened after promise. They lost 600,000 viewers after PROMISE, and by the end of the year they had lost over a million. PROMISE was not the first episode after a long break, and the fact that the ratings for the very next episode were so much lower is indicative of the actual episode, IMO.

The highest rated episode last year was JUSTICE, and the ratings for the following episode, LABYRINTH were still very strong. Smallville had never seen the exodus of fans in the second half like they did last year. Also, although they do typically drop in the second half, they also historically rebound to very good numbers for their finale. Something that didn't happen last year.

I honestly think that the ratings level will largely depend on what role Lana plays this year. If they get back into the old rut of boring, character assassinating, Clana then people will bolt once again. But if the Clana is bearable (like it was at the beginning of season 5) then I think they will be able to maintain a steady number (with the obvious struggles of playoff Baseball..And if my PHILLIES end up in the playoffs then I won't be watching Smallville live, no matter what the episode is about..lol)

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but I still think "Promise" being the root of all Smallville ratings decline is not what happened. Let's see this year, if the same thing happens in the last weeks of the season. It happened with Heroes, it happened with other shows, things just go down. Why bother watching episodes when you can get the DVD in September anyway? Heck, I never did see 3 or 4 of the final episodes of Veronica Mars for that reason. (And that one dipped below 2 million in its final weeks)

I just think the "Promise" thing is an attempt to find justification for a plotline not going the way individuals wanted it to. But in the scheme of things, I don't think it represented that far of a drop than anything that had come in the series before. It's the same as if "Progeny" did badly, does that mean everyone hates Chloe episodes? Same general idea.

I do agree though that stronger stories, like last night's premiere, without the romantic/relationship angst, will get people coming back the next week, and once and if Clanaville comes back there might be difficulty, but I still stand by the idea that the last weeks of the season will decline again. Christopher Reeve's return in Legacy didn't bring people back, James Marsters in Hypnotic didn't bring people back. It just happens.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I thought that the drop in season six was especially steep compared to previous years. Like, absurdly steep. It got so bad that crap episodes like Subterranean and Static looked pretty good from a ratings PoV.

Now, Promise may not have been the be-all, end-all cause of everything that sucked at the end of season six. (Clexana started to ramp up in Hydro.) But Craig, 600,000 views left between Promise and Combat - that seems to be a whole lot to blame on regular springtime decline.

I agree that mythology/plot driven episodes are more fun that angst-fests, and they bring the viewers. Hell, Justice should have made that abundantly clear. But with all Al's interviews about Clana, are we going to keep getting them? Or will be back on the old angst treadmill?

Thanks for all the numbers/breakdown, everyone. Even though I thought the premiere wasn't among the best for the series, I think there was a lot there to keep viewers tuned in for next week and those to come. A lot to build on, and hopefully it'll do just that; and we'll get a fine season. The CW is very lucky to have SV. Too bad it doesn't seem to realize it or rather, it seems to take it for granted.

re: opening credits. *nods*, I saw the change created a buzz in the forums as well. I learned of it right before the eppy (thanks, Durq!) and I was very much looking forward to seeing it, too. :)

Final numbers for Bizarro:

Um, wow? That beats every episode of season six except for Justice, which it's dangerously close to.

Considering the near-media blackout on anything not related to LV, it was even more impressive. Maybe it is a sign Lana should only make a 1 minute appearance at the end of each episode?

Didn't Arrow score higher? I thought it was close to Justice.


If the numbers drop drastically next week, it's a sign that un-spoilered viewers perhaps would have preferred that Lana stayed dead!

The only episodes to break 5 million in season six were Fallout, Justice, and Labyrinth.

Folks, I fear a season eight.

Hee.

Double hee!

*sigh* TW will never break free.

Scry - I know you like to get details right, so I thought I'd contribute this.

Forget about the total viewers in millions. It isn't that important. It's nice for advertising purposes if the network wants to use them bc it's an easy to understand and BIG figure for the general public, and they get reported in general mags which can be good or bad publicity, but for business purposes which is the ONLY reason ratings matter, they are irrelevant. The CW doesn't care about people outside their target demo. bc they have no affect on their revenue. The price of their ads is based upon how many people in a certain demo they can guarantee an advertiser. Unfortunately, Travis didn't give 18-34 demos (the one CW cares about) regularly for SV last season. So, I can only really compare 18-49's for a lot of episodes. But, the 18-34 demos always increase from the 18-49 demos. To compare apples to apples, the figure to use is the 18-49 figure.

Bizarro got a 1.9/5, right?

Compare it to last season.
Justice 2.3/6 A18-49
The guy didn't give breakdowns for Labyrinth.
Crimson 2.0/5 A18-49
Trespass 1.9/5 A18-49
FREAK - -1.9/5 A18-49
Promise - 2.0/6 A18-49
Combat- 1.7/5 A18-49
Progeny-- 1.7/5 A18-49
Nemesis- 1.5/4 A18-49
Noir - 1.5/4 A18-49
Prototype - - 1.4/4 A18-49

It's better than the nose dive at the end, but it is only average for the Fall and it is below what the S6 Fall episodes got. The first episodes started off 2.2-2.0 and then slipped slightly to flunctuating between 2.0-1.9. That's why I guessed Bizarro would get a 2.0 in 18-49. I considered it a very average rating. The 1.9 is fine by those stds and considering the ridiculous lack of promotion very good, but it didn't beat what most of the Fall S6 episodes did and fell slightly below several Fall episodes, just FYI.

I guess a possible explaination for the premier doing better than expected is youtube. The trailers were put up there. So, despite a lack of ads on CW, maybe that's how people got pumped up for the new season.

Amazing that ratings for the first 3 seasons wipe the ones being Wowed about's butt. This season is barely getting the attention and ratings of S4 yet and we have yet to see if it goes up, plus the Lana crapfest hasn't started back up again, cuz she's sooper to watch and has and Evol clone to do her dirty work.
Way back in this thread ALL of the season ratings were laid out and nary an episode into S6 and S4 equaled what Goughlar deem the 'bad dark' season3.

This is apocryphal, but I stopped watching specifically because I couldn't stand what had been done to the characters, and I know others who did for the same reason. So is it really unreasonable to think that some Nielson viewers felt the same?

As for the numbers for Bizarro, another apocryphal story. I got back in touch with an ex who, based on the Supergirl/MM hype, started watching from season 5 and is truly pumped for this season because he thinks he'll be able to get Justice League on the small screen. He talked about the fanboys being abuzz about this possibility. So it's quite possible the jump is in mostly new viewers and it will be interesting to see if they stay.

All I know is that 600,000 people left after Promise. They've never had such a significant drop in the other season, if I'm not mistaken. Now, I'm not saying that PROMISE is the only reason for the decline, but I think it's safe to say that that episode play a very big part. The outcry of the online fans about what they did to Clark Kent was as loud as I've ever seen. Except for SWEET, where it was met with Cheers.

I think you are wrong in this one Craig. Promise did hurted the show a lot of people say that online fans are not a important part of the people that watch the show but the truth is that since all the time I have been online is the first time I had seen so many of them crying out loud for an episode and quiting the show. In the other years they just losed interest and left so I really think Promise made a huge contribution to that particular drooping.

I think the "online fans don't matter" argument was laid to rest by the responce to the Pink Script. A few days after the script broke, rumors started coming out hard and heavy that KK was leaving. Suddenly, people went from "My eyes! The script makes them burn!" to "Dead Lana?" Now, to give Craig credit, he was not involved with the Pink Script spin control - but Wrongda and other, less reliable "sources" were.

It is safe to say Promise pissed a lot of folks off. And some of them? Never came back.

I will be interested to see if the ratings drop if / when Lana comes back. She is stil the female lead (in theory, if not always in practice), and she does have her fans. But I don't think a rehashed Clana reunion is going to draw in new fans, or keep the non-Clana old ones, in season seven of any show.

And God help us all if they do get season eight, and decide to slam the breaks on all the character development and focus on ships. Again.

I never watched Combat. I was so pissed off after Promise that I became mad even thinking about this show. And I swear I wouldn't come back if Progeny wasn't Chloe-centered.

I don't think that I'm the only one who can say this.

I was curious about this too, but in fact, they have, several times...

S4:
4.Devoted........final number 6.2 million viewers. (airdate: 10/13)
5.Run............final number 5.4 million viewers. (airdate: 10/20)

6.Transference......final number 5.7million viewers. (airdate: 10/27)
7.Jinx...............final number 5.0 million viewers. (airdate: 11/3)

10. Scare ............final number 4.9 million viewers. (airdate: 12/1)
HIATUS
11.Unsafe......... final number 4.2 million viewers. (airdate: 1/26)

15. Sacred ..........final number 5.3 million viewers.(airdate: 2/23)
16. Lucy.............. final number 4.5 million viewers.(airdate: 3/2)
HIATUS
17. Onyx........... final number 3.9 million viewers.(airdate: 4/13)

Though it should be noted that the numbers kept bouncing back, and the season ended with a 5.5million viewers. So, the numbers fluctuated, but there was no steady decline

S5:

4. Aqua.......final number 6.4 million viewers.(airdate: 10/20)
5. Thirst.....Final Number 5.8 million viewers (airdate: 10/27)
(though I think this one has to factor in the huge bounce "Aqua" got)

8. Solitude......Final Number 6.0 Million Viewers (airdate: 11/17)
9. Lexmas........Final Number 5.4 Million Vewiers (airdate: 12/??)

12. Reckoning.....Final Number 6.3 million Viewers.(airdate: 1/26)
13. Vengence.....Final Number 5.4 million Viewers.(airdate: 2/2)
(Again, I think you have to factor in the huge bounce for the 100th episode hype)

15. Cyborg....Final Number 6.2 million Viewers.(airdate: 2/16)
HIATUS
16. Hypnotic...Final Number 4.8 million viewers.(airdate: 3/30)
17.Void...Final Number 4.2 million viewers.(airdate: 4/6)
18. Fragile......Final Number 3.9 million viewers (airdate: 4/13)

S5 had a small slide towards the end, but bounced back after that and ended the season with a 4.8million, then a 4.9million. But it clearly never got back up to early S5 strength, which S4 did.

S6:

16. Final numbers for Promise...................4.7 million viewers.(airdate: 3/15)
17. Final numbers for Combat..................4.1 million viewers.(airdate: 3/22)
BREAK
18. Final numbers for Progeny......................4.0 million viewers (airdate: 4/19)
19. Final numbers for Nemesis......................3.9 million viewers. (airdate: 4/26)
20. Final numbers for Noir......................3.6 million viewers.(airdate: 5/3)
21. Final numbers for Prototype......................3.4 million viewers.(airdate: 5/10)

(credit for ratings info, dec5 via Sweet )


What seems to be different in the S6 slide was that it was steady, maintained slide and the show never really recovered from it. There was no bounce back, which happened in both S4 & S5. Though "Phantom" did get back in the 4million range, thats still a pretty sad number for a finale.

So, what does all that mean? I have no clue. But the show has had huge drops before. Though I'm not sure it ever had a slide in the 2nd half of the season quite like S6 had.

JMHO

One of the "Heroes" producers was quoted in EW in the spring, saying that shows now have a very small margin of error - it just takes one dud ep. for people to decide not to watch the show live & either download or wait for the DVDS. I thought of "Promise" when I read that, since it seemed there was a permanent viewer exodus afterwards, with less finale rebound then in previous seasons.

But since "Bizarro" has rebounded, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the ratings this fall - if Kara can draw in as many viewers as Ollie and what effect a possible reversion to soap opera plots may have.

I actually don't think there's any proof to think Ollie did draw in any viewers. The premiere started fairly strong, and the first half numbers were pretty consistent, with or without Ollie. In fact, his big introduction episode "Arrow" didn't really get a bump. His presence may have contributed, but I suspect the overall tone and direction of the show is what kept the numbers pretty steady. Even "Subterranean" which was thrown into a garbage spot with almost no promotion still did OK and maintained the numbers.


1. Final number for Zod......5.0 million viewers.
2. Final number for Sneeze.....4.5 million viewers.
3. Final number for Wither 4.9 million viewers.
4. Final number for Arrow....4.7 million viewers.
5. Final number for Reunion....4.8 million viewers.
6. Final number for Fallout...5.0 million viewers.
7. Final number for Rage......4.5 million viewers.
8. Final number for Static......4.7 million viewers.
9. Final number for Subterranean......4.3 million viewers.
10. Final number for Hydro......4.7 million viewers.
11.Final number for Justice..........5.3 million viewers.

Excellent data BadToad. I love data.

I think the clear answer is, it's not an individual episode but a trend. The spring downturn was significant but many articles have been written about how that was across the board, not just SV.

I wonder how the Smallville downturn compares to other downturns in terms of percentages. It seems to me that they didn't give us many reasons reconsider our distractions last spring.

Another factor - were the drops in seasons four and five between episodes that were shown in consecutive weeks? There is often a drop off for the first new episode after a few weeks of repeats. Combat directly followed Promise.After Promise, I felt it was pretty clear where the show was focused: Lana's uterus.

I've updated the above ratings drops with the airdates. Any hiatus is definitely a factor, but there were other weekly drops of 600k viewers other then Promise to Combat.

Oh come on Bob, I was eating! Gotta give some type of warning first.

I just read somewhere that the real reason for the Superman Returns sequel being shelved might have a lot more to do with the fact that Jerry Siegel's heirs are planning to file a lawsuit seeking proceeds from Superman, in addition to the Superboy legal battle that has been going on for a few years now. It was also revealed that Bryan Singer has been called to testify in the Superboy case this month.

With both Superman and Superboy in the courts, I wonder if that's going to affect the chances for an 8th season.

Do you have a link? I thought the Siegels got back fifty percent of the rights to Superman in 1999. Is the dispute solely over money, or ownership, or what?

OK, I think I found something. (I read too many damn comic book blogs.) Anyway, it appears that the Superman case is actually still going on, so there are two court battles right now. I'm surprised we're even getting Superman comics at this point.

Here's a rundown of the actions being taken in the lawsuits, which I found via The Beat:

The latest on the Superman/Superboy Siegel lawsuits

I didn't even know there was a Superman lawsuit going on, and I just thought that, with a trial beginning in January, that might have some effect on Smallville, since even if it's declared not to be based on Superboy, it's still based on Superman. If DC loses both cases, I would think they would be really screwed.