I love JUSTICE but it has been reaired a couple of different times since it originally aired. I don't think it's being slighted. Plus they may be focusing the story on what is going to be dealt with at the beginning of season 7, namely Bizarro, Lana's death and everyone's fate. JUSTICE in the scheme of these stories can be skipped if they are pressing for time.

I just hope they re-air Noir.

So, looking at the TV guide forecast, it appears that we end the SV reruns with Phantom on Thursday the 13th and a repeat of Justice on the 16th. No idea about the 23rd yet. It also appears that instead of running SV on the 20th we get a repeat of the season-opener of Beauty and the Geek. Fabulous. /sarcasm.

Okay, so I'll dispense with the rant because I know so many of you would do a better job of articulating the folly of ditching your top rated fictional show for a reality show the week before the premier.

What I was curious about is if this is what they've done in the past. I also find it interesting that they save Justice for possibly the last S6 Smallville to be aired before the Season opener.

No, that sums it up perfectly. No rant required. What are they thinking?

What? No, seriously, WHAT?!!

If Beauty and the Geek was the season opener for the show, then I could see some logic. A new, season opening episode of even a lame reality show would probably get more eyeballs in front of the tv than a SV repeat to see a SV S7 trailer and also warm up the slot by getting people into the habit of tuning in at that time.

ABC has used clip shows to warm up time slots like that coming off long breaks for UB and Grey's. But a repeat of another show is not the same thing. While Pussycat Dolls was a bizarre exception, generally reality show repeats do very poorly compared to original airings so I don't see how airing a repeat of another show is that much better than airing a repeat of SV when it results in basically pulling SV off the air for 11 days before the premiere.

It looks like Space in Canada has changed their scheduling of the premiere. They were previously running commercials that S7 would start on Sept. 23, but in going to their website today, it's being advertised as starting Sept. 30. Alas. So much for being ahead of the game.

Drat! I was hoping to get the real deal on what the premeire epi is like. Now we will prob have to read another kiss butt review on Media Village.

UGH! I freaking hate abcfamily right now. So, they don't even like, show Smallville anymore. On Thursday and Friday nights I tape the show since I've never seen season 5 but now, when I go to watch the show on my DVR it's not Smallville, it's that mini-series Fallen! My tvguide says it's smallville but it's like...not. UGHHHH! [/end rant]

For those of us who watch SV on A Channel in Canada it looks like they might be switching nights - in Ontario, anyway. The premiere is still matching the CW on Sept. 27, but they have Kara listed as airing on Oct. 3 at 8pm, which is a Wednesday. I don't know if this is a permanent change, or even a flat out mistake, since they don't have any scheduling up for the week after, but their generic SV promo still says Thursdays at 8 and their BC station doesn't appear to be following suit.

Thanks for the heads up PolarB. I'll be keeping my eyes open so I don't miss the correct night. But I wouldn't mind if it moved to another night. It seems my Mondays and Thursdays are overloaded with shows I like and there's nothing else on the rest of the week.

In the Promos, Commercials and Advertising thread, JerseyGrl posted this:



So the CW spent a large chunk of their Pre-Season promotions money on Gossip Girl. They pimped, pushed, and promoted the heck out of that show. Magazine ads. Running ads nonstop on their own network. Running promos on other networks. Sending the cast out on interviews and such. No show in the short history of the CW has been pushed harder.

And for what? So that Gossip Girl could get fewer viewers than the OTH season premiere got last year in the same timeslot.

In the final numbers, the big GG series premiere got 3.5 million viewers, which isn't bad for a CW show. But the whole reason the CW barely promoted any other show was because they were pouring all of their money into GG, banking on it to be this monster hit right out of the box. Only it wasn't. So, basically, my favorite shows got ignored for nothing.

Where's that Bitterness thread?

I have nothing against GG. Some people really seemed to like it. And it could grow a bigger audience with time. My issue is with the CW. I understand pushing new shows. But pushing new shows doesn't have to mean saying "Screw you," to your other shows. I mean, we're less than a week away from the premiere of SV. (Two weeks from the premiere of SPN.) And the CW is just starting to act like they noticed.

Maybe now, the CW will see the error of their ways and start spreading the promotional love around a little more evenly.

Maybe.

I don't think the network will change anything. GG is the perfect advertising show for the demo they seek, and from reading articles about the network advertising is all they are about. Not about their audience, it's all about the advertising.

Thing is, GG's overall number may not seem too impressive, but it hit some major target demos (women, teens, and females teens). So, the demos are better than the overall ratings.

Personally, I like GG, but the CW shouldn't have ignored SV and SPN in the process.

I'm not talking about the ratings. As far as those go, GG is a success. And could be a long-running success if those numbers don't dip too much once the competition starts premiering their shows.

However, for all the pushing and promoting the CW did for GG, 3.5 million is underwhelming. It would be like paying $50 for what's supposed to be the best chocolate ever, but getting something that doesn't taste much different than a candy bar you could buy down at the grocery story. It's still good, because it's chocolate. But it's not $50 good.

Well, for me, the more CW pushed GG the more I stayed away from it. I was so sick and tired of the commercials, I had no interest in the show. IMO, if your a new network, you should also promote your veteran shows. The ones that people are already familiar with. All CW did was make me mad because I saw very little promos of SV and SPN. If it wasn't for those two shows, I wouldn't even bother with watching anything on that station. So I'm kinda happy that with their decision to ignore SV and SPN that GG didn't do as well as expected. Although I'm not sure what they expected.

Also, are there only three shows left that used to be on WB? I think it's just Beauty and the Geek, Smallville and Supernatural. I've just been kinda thinking about it.

I got sick of seeing it everywhere. But, then again, I ain't exactly the target demo they're looking for with that show. Being that when I see another TV show about obscenely pretty "teens" whining about their lives my first reaction is less "oh, goodie!" than "Shut the fuck up before I hit you with a 2x4."

Maybe RepairmanBob has one you could borrow.

Well, I always think of him as a handy man, non?

Was there like a date rapist or something on that show?

Yes, there was, or, more accurately, an attempted date rapist. Hopefully he will get his ass kicked soon.

OK, so I have this much time on my hands and A Channel is being very confusing, so here's what I've been able to put together for Smallville S7 coverage in Canada:

A Channel Ontario
Bizarro is airing Thursday, Sept 27 at 8pm. Kara is airing Wednesday, Oct 3 at 8pm. Fierce is airing Thursday, Oct 11 at 10pm due to provincial election coverage airing on Oct 10 - thanks to Liv06 for catching that, as I missed it going through the schedule to see if they'd moved it around.

A Channel Victoria
According to their online schedule, Smallvile is airing regularly on Thursdays at 8pm, starting with Bizarro on Sept 27.

SPACE channel
Smallville remains on Sundays at 8pm, starting with Bizarro on Sept 30.

To add to PolarB's post, the Toronto Star's coverage of the prime time tv schedule also has the move from Thursdays to Wednesdays in October. Kara seems to have been replaced by Scrubs and 30 Rock from 8pm on A Channel, which also suggests it's going to be a permanent move (to me anyway).

Are you looking at Bell ExpressVu listings?

I've been checking the A channel listings. That link is to Thursday October 11 listings. For that week, it seems that Fierce has been pre-empted by the election coverage on Wednesday at 8, and will instead screen on Thursday at 10pm. Scrubs and 30 Rock remain in the 8pm slot as well, so it seems like the following week SV might be back to Wednesdays. I've got Rogers and it seems to match these listings.

Thanks for that update. That's good to know that it seems to be a regular date changed to Wed nights.

Stepping off the scheduling end of things for a moment to discuss The CW's ratings and what lies ahead for Smallville.

To begin with, here's The CW's schedule for the first half of the 2007-2008 season:

Note: This excludes the four half-hour comedies on Monday as well as "CW Now" and "Online Nation" on Sunday.


"Beauty and the Geek" kicked off The CW's new season last Tuesday at an abysmal 3.38 million viewers. It went on to score a 1.79 during it's encore on Thursday (the Thursday before "Smallville's" season premiere, no less). Here's the household shares and demos breakdown:

Yeah. Good luck with that, C-Dub. The following night saw the season premieres of "America's Next Top Model" and Dawn Ostroff's baby "Gossip Girl". As you are all well aware, "Gossip Girl" has garnered the most promotion out of any show on The CW (times like, a million). "GG" was originally scheduled to air on September 26 (tomorrow), but they bumped it up a week so it could air it's series premiere against a bunch of repeats. Fortunately, it didn't help.

3.50 million viewers is hardly a success considering the ridiculous amount of promotion that came before it, but The CW doesn't care. It's determined to spin it's failure as a success. Read their super special won't-admit-they-fucked-up press release! :D Here's some of my favorite excerpts:

That's great, except, you know, only one show has ever followed "ANTM"; "One Tree Hill". Speaking of "OTH"...

They're *actually* comparing it to "The O.C." and "Buffy"! What the fuck is wrong with them? They're all, "Look! Look! Gossip Girl did sooooo well! Really, it did! Watch how many other things it beat!" Dawn then proceeds to run to her office and cry.

Oh, CW.

I'm glad "America's Next Top Model" hasn't been hurt one bit by the hiatus, though. Good for them. Let's go to Friday.

"FNS!" is also doing very well, and hasn't been straining at all. "CW Now" and "Online Nation", on the other hand...


Really, what's the point? Encores of Wednesday's shows followed:

I do believe that deserves a "Tee hee."

The last episode of Smallville to air was Phantom nearly two weeks ago. It scored 2.40 million viewers and a 1.0/3 rating. Not bad. Here's a final numbers chart for all of season six. Note that there a number of all-time series lows after Promise and before Phantom. Each week beat the week before it to become the least watched episode ever. :\

Anywho, "Reaper" premieres tonight and I'm anxious to see it. Hope it does decently. "Smallville" premieres this Thursday as we all know, and "Supernatural" premieres next Thursday to make way for a "Reaper" encore. "Life Is Wild" premieres in two Sundays from now, which I predict will go the way of "Runaway". :)

Well, those data are pretty compelling Scry. I do recall the "basketball, early time change, TiVo,...." excuses but the drop b/w Promises and Combat seems pretty obvious. If the numbers dropped after hiatus, I'd buy it more easily.

I read that yesterday the CW showed all repeats and had a 1.1 overall?! I don't get this station.

Despite Smallville declines, I have a feeling if the ratings are even on par with the lows of late Season 6, we'll be getting an eighth year. Gossip Girl doesn't seem like it'll catch on, and I think they made a mistake in not just leaving Beauty & the Geek to alternate with ANTM.

Those Geek repeat ratings were embarrassing. CW might as well shown an encore of the Smallville finale. But that would mean, you know, caring what happens with Smallville.

I do, however, hope Reaper does well. I liked that pilot a lot.

I know CW is putting full episodes on their site. Anyone have an idea if Smallville will be on there? I've been searching around the site and I can't find anything about it. I really hope they do. It'll solve my NBC conflict.

Despite the lack of publicity, I think "Smallville" will debut well relative to other CW shows. Its audience is loyal - like to an amazing degree. This is just a wild guess but I'm going with 4.65 million with 2.0/6 (18-49.)



I've been saying this for awhile, but I don't see the CW getting a third year. The CW started off on a short leash. UPN and the WB were abruptly closed and essentially merged because of intense pressure at the board of directors level at both companies to either make a profit or shut down. Carl Icahn is still all over Time Warner to make a profit. Les Moonves promised his board of directors at CBS Corp. that the CW would be profitable by the end of its first year but it wasn't. The CW overestimated ad revenue and got into a "make good" situation, and then it lost one of its biggest ad revenue producers in "Gilmore Girls."

To me, the CW is like Veronica Mars = on the bubble and being given a chance out of sentimental attachment to the parties involved and unrealistic optimism. It needed Gossip Girl to hit. If something doesn't hit for it *soon*, then I think it's a goner. Next spring, if all it has going for it scheduling-wise is ANTM and a declining Smallville (that will cost a LOT to renew), then I can't see the suits at CBS and TW agreeing to put more money into it again. Not when Icahn could use it as a way to show poor business choices and motivate other impatient for profits directors to change management. I think they'd dump current management and current business plans and turn it into "Reality TV" or something cheap to make that might make a profit.

If the CW goes under but SV shows decent numbers this year is it possible the Goughlar could still do an eighth season (with a pared down budget) by taking the show into syndication?

I don't pretend to know anything about the business of television, but I'm guessing a show that only has one year left is not a good candidate for syndication. I'd speculate it's too close to its end for anyone to bother syndicating it.

Never mind, for some reason I was thinking Babylon 5 went from having a network sponsorship to syndication to avoid cancellation but I think it was actually the other way around.

I wouldn't know specifics, but I wouldn't be surprised if the contracts Tom/Erica/whoever have are for a Season 8 on the CW only. Usually when things jump networks they have to renegotiate; I'm still not completely sure if they had to re-do anything when the WB-to-CW thing happened. But I'd think a Season 8 probably wouldn't happen, even though Warner Bros. might want it for DVD sales.

Maybe season 8 could be on Direct TV with Passions and Dan Rather.

The contracts are principally with the studio producing the show so they don't really have to renegotiate anything if a show changes networks (e.g. JAG I think went from NBC to CBS or maybe the other way around, can't recall.) I'm not sure how they include the contractual obligation to do publicity for the network, but I'm guessing it is part of the contract with the studio.

As for syndication, I can't see it. SV is an older series and already expensive to produce and all their contracts prices only go up every year making it more expensive. It's still so early in the year, so maybe the CW will turn around. But, they need *something* to hit imo or I think the suits at CBS and TW will think it's not working out and it's time to shut it down or revamp completely again to something that will make money like all reality tv. The gist I've gotten, is that the businessmen who've invested in the entertainment companies are complaining a lot about lack of profits to *all* the media companies. They're being really impatient about it. Les Moonves got the CW a one year pass to make a profit, and it didn't. The CW also has like zero buzz going for it right now as far as I can tell, so it's not like there are signs that if they get more time, that things will improve. So far, all they have is ANTM as a legitimately hot property, although if SV does well, it can be considered a good asset as a dependable performer. But, SV costs a lot more to produce than ANTM so I don't know how they look to accountants at CW when ad revenue versus costs are figured.

It's the billionaires at the top who I think are breathing down the CW's back to show why they deserve their investment. And imagining the situation from their perspective, I'm thinking there isn't much to encourage them or impress them that the CW is doing well and going to eventually be a good investment.

Thanks for the info. on the Canadian air dates, PolarB and Liv! It's confusing keeping up with the whims of the A channel. But it's cool to get some eps a day early.

Forever Knight did this back in the day. It started on CBS, and was cancelled after a year. The people behind the show thought it still had potential so the took it to syndication, where it became a modest cult hit.

Probably the most famous (or infamous) example of all is Baywatch. It started on NBC, and was cancelled pretty soon after it's premiere. The producers, feeling it still had potential, took it to syndication, where it went on to become a monster success.

So it's not unheard of for a show to move from a network to syndication. But, as others have pointed out, SV has one season (if that) left in it. Would moving the show to syndication be worth the effort.

Syndication is also not what it was back in the day of Baywatch and Forever Knight. Are there any syndicated first run dramas out there now that would be considered hit shows? So even before you take into account Smallville's age I doubt syndication would be an option.

Now if SV can remain a steady performer for the CW it may well get another season just because the CW's new shows are again floundering. If the CW is done I think that SV will go down with it.

I find myself having difficulty trying to come up with current shows that are even in first run syndication. I guess my tv watching has really dropped off. Off the top of my head in terms of syndication I'm thinking of shows created for a Canadian market that are already well into their run and are now being sold into the U.S. for syndication purposes. Da Vinci's Inquest, Cold Squad, and more recently ReGenesis come to mind. However I don't know what kind of numbers they bring in.

I think the market for first-run syndication has mostly dried up. It seems that most shows that would once be syndicated are now on cable networks. If Smallville were younger, I'd say it might get picked up by the Sci Fi network or another cable network. But honestly, at this point I think if the CW goes under, Smallville goes with it.

I heard Bionic Woman did surprisingly well last night, especially in the young demos. Perhaps all the Supergirl pimping will pay off with a lot of people tuning in to check out the new superpowered chick on SV. If Bionic Woman continues to do well, and Kara is well received, I could see the CW ordering a spin off asap.

They have nothing else going for them. Gossip Girl went down from its underwhelming premiere numbers.

So, I was thinking about the Supergirl spinoff potential. If the CW tanks, SciFi might pick it up. I've been (okay, I need help) actually watching Flash Gordon. Cheesy doesn't begin to describe it but I would think SciFi would pick up Supergirl if the CW went away. Now the "production value" of Flash Gordon is not up to Smallville standards so I'm not sure AlMiles would want to work in that venue if they couldn't have what they thought was a reasonable budget.

I think the first two weeks of ratings will be critical for SV and the Supergirl spinoff. Not only the ratings but also whatever scoring system they use for TV shows these days. If the show stays on par and her focus group scores (if they actually do that type of thing) are good --- especially with the target demographic, happiness for the Goughlar. If not, then it's rethink time.

I also think this could be tied to the JL movie buzz. If a Supergirl spinoff is viable, then perhaps Welling will be freed up to take the role. If not, they'll drive that pony into the ground.

I honestly don't know why the CW thought that people would actually care about rich kids arguing and sleeping with each other in another show. I mean there is a reason that the OC was cancelled people.

I watched BW. And I have to say, that it was much better than I thought it was. Definitely going to keep watching.

I think if SciFi or syndication were to pick up a Smallville spin-off, that we would have had Aquaman or at the very least Green Arrow in one of those places. TPTB wanted to do them, there seemed to be a market, but, nothing.

From MediaWeek


If anything, the new season's rating looks promising.

Does that mean 6 million people saw it? Premieres usually do all right. It's the stuff that follows afterwards that muck things up.

I think the premiere had almost 5 million last year. So I'm guessing it will be around 4.5 to 4.7 million this year. Blowing away the debuts of the PIMPED OUT THE ASS shows Gossip Girl and Reaper (although I liked this one a lot). I wonder if they are going to re-air this on Sunday. There is a new rule now that networks can use the numbers from a re-aired show if it's in the same week and they run the same commercials. So if they have 4.7, and get another 1.8 or so from a re-run on Sunday, they can combine the number for AD rates, because they are using the same commercials.

I think that rule might still be up in the air.

Nielson Takes Second Look

This is from pifeedback and is close to what Media Village said.