That's the one. Heh, the crazy bad boy moves to the beachside town of rich folks. Sound familiar?

I believe SDK did say that DC blocked the scene, maybe in that PodCast interview he did. I guess it's probably a good thing he didn't have Ollie suggest Young Justice, otherwise the whole thing probably would have to have been cut and there would have been no mention of "Justice" at all. Also, I believe he said that either Al or Miles insisted on the Superfriends reference. I'd be willing to bet that they had no idea who the Legion of Superheroes or Doom Patrol are. *Is still bitter about them not knowing who Darkseid is.* Also, what did Chloe say about Aquaman's name, and why is it worse than any of the other names? Honestly, Impulse is the only cool one. All the other ones are a bit too on the nose.

These are some rumored, possibly leaked, schedules for the 07-08 season:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/2007/05/...upfront_11.html

http://tvbb.zap2it.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&...p;vc=1&nt=2

http://www.nku.edu/~manningj1/CW2007.htm

I think we'll know for sure before the Upfronts on Thursday. NBC and ABC have leaked most of their stuff already, so why not? I kind of wish they'd keep SV and SPN together, though. I know the timeslot is rough on SPN, but I'm used to tuning into The CW for two straight (even though both shows are totally gay) hours on Thursdays.

That SitcomsOnline prediction is just that -- more of a prediction. Considering the lack of buzz (and the fact that it got demoted to a 14-20 minute presentation, rather than a pilot, back in development stage), I don't think "Spellbound" is in the running. Nor do I think The CW would take on the expense of 4 sci-fi shows at one (Smallville, Supernatural, Reaper, and Spellbound).

The last link seems to come from a reputable source ... plus it includes CW Now and Viewsers, two half-hour shows the CW seems pretty high on (SitcomsOnline included nothing about those).

Smallville and Supernatural can't stay together forever -- the shows aren't compatible enough (judging by the ratings -- Smallville is rocketing all over the place, Supernatural staying on par -- any Smallville fans who'd enjoy Supernatural have done so and vice versa, SV can't do anything more for SPN and vice versa) and with so many shows leaving the schedule, The CW needs to use their existing shows to launch new ones. ANTM + OTH and SV + SPN worked this year, too, but you can't just rest on your laurels and "don't mess with success" (The CW's tagline for SV + SPN at upfronts last year) -- playing it safe and staying the same isn't going to get a new network anywhere ... and this year proved it.

It's funny - while fans of other shows complain about TPTB pandering to the Nielsens, we complain about AlMiles not bending the show to fit the ratings.

And although Justice was the high point of the season, I don't think it automatically means the show should become all about superhero guest stars and action - after all, GreenArrowVille didn't do all that great, either. TPTB really have to look at the show's high point in general to get a better sense of what the fans want. What's the highest rated episode for this show thus far? Lineage. No real FotW, no Clana angst, no soap opera angst, no superhero guest stars - just good drama. Even if you look at the ratings as holdover from the previous episode, Lineage was preceded by Redux - a FotW episode, admittedly, but heavy on Kent family drama, and still no Clana angst per se.

The best episodes of this show have been the ones that made for compelling drama - where the characters and their connections were explored with thought, and not in terms of soap opera nonsense (well, except for Clex sexual tension, of course). The story arcs that worked, I think, worked not because they were mythology or sci-fi heavy but because they were insightful and allowed the characters to have some self-exploration and exploration of their connections to each other.

The key, ultimately, is Clark. The show is about him, and no amount of guest stars or Lana pimpage is going to bring in the audience unless they actually resonate with the star of the show. My fear is that the story of Clark Kent has been irredeemably buried in soap opera, and that the fans simply won't return because they don't care what actually does happen to the future Superman any more.

Well I think if we get a jump it won't be as high but I can be mistaken I just hope they promote it as much as they did with promise so it will be as fair as posible to the overall ratings. I do wish it tank so they forget about the stupid S8 idea and focus on kick ass S7.

Thus far the ads have all been Clexana, haven't they?

ratman, I don't think the two claims are mutually exclusive. That is, I think you're right that Clark is, or ought to be, the star the show, and the show ought to focus on him and his journey to becoming Superman. But I think what people want, especially at this point, is to see Clark acting more and more like they imagine Superman would act. So I think what people liked about "Justice" was that, in that episode, Clark was acting like a superhero, even if he did come off as still kind of incompetent, which was my, and I think most viewers' biggest complaint about that episode. In fact, I think that played a bigger role in the success of "Justice" than the guest stars and the explosions. To put it another way, I think the reason guest-star episodes like "Justice," "Aqua," and "Cyborg" tend to do well is that having another superhero as a guest star is a way of advertising to viewers that it's going to be an episode focusing on superheroics, which means we'll hopefully get to see Clark acting like Superman. I think that's why GreenArrowville earlier this season didn't do so well: it was pretty clear that it was more soap-operatic melodrama. After all, I've always been somewhat skeptical of the much simpler idea that DCU guest stars = ratings. After all, does anyone seriously suppose that Green Arrow or Aquaman is going to make people want to see Superman more? There's a reason that there have been five feature films and four live-action television series about Superman, while Green Arrow and Aquaman have difficulty sustaining their own comics titles.

I would go further and say that this show could reduce its special effects budget without really hurting the ratings. When they want to show Clark using his X-ray vision, they could just show him squinting, and then informing Chloë what he saw. When they want to show him using his heat vision, they could shoot him from the back and then just show the object in front of him melting or burning or what have you, so that they wouldn't actually have to show the CGI laser beams, and so forth. Yes, I think people do like to see the special effects when they are well done (when they are poorly done, I think they just take people out of the action), but I think what people really want to see is Clark using his powers for good, and if they have to skimp on special effects to do that, I think people would be okay with that, at least as long as they still have the occasional thrilling spectacle when they can afford it.

Of course, I think the show could free up more money for special effects by eliminating some of the dead weight from the cast, although I would hope they'd first spend that money on better writers before better effects. That would really help the ratings. And I think that the reason fans of this show complain that the show isn't pandering to the Neilsens is that, at least for this show, what's hurting the ratings is bad writing. What I and I think others want is for the show to be better, for it to live up to its tremendous potential, and I believe that that would yield commercial success as well

Yeah, they could have totally skipped the terribly lame and no doubt expensive super-hearing FX which makes me wince every time I saw it. Clark has been a marginal character all too often and the stupidity of making a proto-Superman tale about a girl from Clark's childhood remains a very stupid choice. Lana was never that interesting or that nice in the comics and picking her to be the focus was a very stupid move. This should remain about Clarkk and Lex and good verses evil not Lana Lang being pissy and cruel while whining about how she loves two men. Promise ruined this show after the fall that begin at the rewritten end of Labyrinth. Yet they seem intent on bulling through to the end, pushing "Lois" on us even though she isn't good for anything but T&A and expecting us to say, Thanks! while leaving Clark to appear minimally in too many eps and when he does, acting very unheroically (macking on a married woman is not cool!) too often.

In six years there has been no comeuppance for Lana's many horrible deeds, including killing a woman and having Lex and Lionel cover it up, being a nasty bitch to Clark and Chloe and in general doing far worse snooping on Clark than Chloe ever thought of doing yet no one ever calls her on it. That is not a satsfying conclusion to everything we've seen and now they push Lana the martyr on us. This is not the show I signed up for all those years ago.

Maybe it's sadistic, but the ratings fall overjoys me. Seeing a terrible show pull in terrible numbers, well, that's justice. However, now Lana can complain, again, about how everyone's abandoning her. Story of her life, really.


Liv, I've only seen Clexana, but I must admit whenever I see or hear anything of that ilk I tend to tune out and instead think stuff like "Did I pay the last electric bill?" or "Who would win in a fight: a Viking or a samurai?"

I wonder if the finale will crack the 4 million mark?


I know what you mean, El Seed, but I'm still sad that cool episodes like "Nemesis". "Progeny" and "Noir" lost their audience because of "Promise" and the Clexana arc. They really shot themselves in the foot with that ad campaign.

On the other hand, I hope Goughlar isn't considered for any more writing assignments in Hollywood or at least less. I want them to be punished for their screwups.

I think that the problem is that people saw those episodes as "bones" to get people to put up with stuff but people are tired of bones as long as Clexana is the meat of the story. You can't occasionally give people one good appetizer and expect people to stay for the main course that has flies buzzing around it. Goughlar just thought they could write whatever and people would just come back because of Supes and they're being proven wrong.

I don't want a "nemesis" once in a while. I want it every single episode or at least outnumbering the Clana hamster wheel crap but since it doesn't, how can I care? SPN is always about Dean & Sam every single episode. It's not treated like a "bone" to make people shut up and eat more of something vile. I just start regarding the non-Lana episodes as tricks to make you put up with the crap that is.

I saw an SV ad on Space channel (I live in Canada) yesterday and it was definitely Clexana. They showed scenes from previous episodes - like when Clark catches Lana in "Trespass" (leaving the poor security guard to fall to his death) and tells her all that matters is that she's alright.

I really can't blame people for tuning out. After the glancing blow of the last five minutes of "Labyrinth" came the knockout punch of "Promise." Maybe if "Promise" hadn't been the gaping hole of suck that it was, more people would have stuck around and tolerated the increased Clexana. Unless I've succeeded in wiping my memory of this season, the Clexana was at more tolerable levels in other episodes. OTOH, maybe people were getting tired of getting whacked in the nose for trying to "wait it out" for something good. IMO episodes like "Nemesis," "Progeny," and "Noir" should have higher ratings, but if the audience wants to run towards freedom, well...run like the wind.

And I agree, they really did shoot themselves in the foot. I'm baffled at the way they've handled everything.

The upshot for me is that this all came down as the NHL playoffs started. Now I can enjoy games without cringing at SV during commercial breaks and intermissions. (Though thinking about the end of "Labyrinth," instead of those five minutes of "wtf," they should have just had David Bowie in tight pants doing whatever, I'm not picky.)


That would be nice. Too bad in reality it won't go down something like this:
Jay Sherman: "Next year you could be head of the studio."
Security Guard: "No, last year I was head of the studio. That 12-picture deal with Shelly Long seemed like a good idea."

Same here...and welcome aboard! I'll be one less watching the finale in real time this Thursday. So even if I was one who counts in the ratings, I wouldn't be able to watch it as it happens. Oh, sure, I'll watch it later...at some point.

You probably know about it but now it is officially:
CW reneved Smallville


Smallville picked up for 22
Supernatural picked up for 22
One Tree Hill picked up for 22

http://community.tvguide.com/blog/TVGuide-...-Fall/700160054

As long as they announce it with "And Thursday night at eight....Smallville's final season...." I really want the show to end next year..However, if KK is indeed leaving and the show begins to rock again, I reserve the right to change my mind. ;)

It's not sadistic at all - plenty of us who are very dedicated fans are hoping for the same thing. Not because we hate the show, but because we hate the direction it has taken as of late. And since they obviously aren't paying attention to what the fandom has been complaining about on the boards (and we KNOW they read), then maybe losing a big chunk of viewer$ will make them take heed.

On another note, it seems as though Heroes may be airing on Thursdays at 10pm next season. While this does not directly compete with Smallville, I still think it can potentially hurt the strength of the fandom. Generally, the biggest surge of online activity comes in the hours immediately following an episode's airing. I know I typically find myself blabbing for a few hours here and on KSite (and often in IM chats) after each SV episode. But if Heroes will be airing an hour after SV ends, then I'm probably not giving SV more than an 1 hour of my time that night, because the rest of the night belongs to Heroes. In this sense, Heroes can potentially steal SV's thunder on a weeky basis. For most of the season, while I have always LOVED Heroes, I didn't feel compelled to visit any of the fan forums. But over the last few episodes I've found myself perusing the forums after the episode airs and now I'm hooked (and I have noticed quite a few other familiar names on TWOPs Heroes board). And the contrast is amazing - people are actually happy! I'd almost forgotten what that feels like. Not to mention, the proximity to Smallville only makes the comparison between the two more noticeable. Right now, Smallville is the ugly girl - standing right next to the pretty girl will just make her look even uglier.

So, while I don't think Heroes on Thursday will directly steal viewers, it could potentially sap a lot of the enthusiam (what little remains) from its viewers over the course of the season. Of course, this only applies to people who actually watch both shows, but based on many of the comments here it seems as though that demo is fairly large.

I also have noticed a lot of SV refugees not only on TWOP but lj. People who'll rip SV a new one slather lotion and give peeled grapes to Heroes. It's very true, the episode chat is probably going to shrink to less than 10 pages because after Heroes comes in with its fine clothes, and fairly entertaining conversation, it really does make SV look like the unbathed barely coherent lush that it is.

And some people say "I only watch one or two hours of TV a night" and frankly they'll probably give that hour to Heroes rather than SV.

If only. That would probably be a lot more fun.

Heroes isn't moving to Thursday. But it would have been all kinds of awesome watching SV get stomped on.

I don't want SV stomped. However much it's sucked this season, I still hope for the series to go out on top of its game...if it can ever find the ball. ;)

I might add that is also the fact that if the show tanks it will be picked for a 7 season but the 8 won't happen so we will have the same situation that made S5 rock since there won't be more stalling. So is good that the show falls as low as posible I mean S7 not stalling and not Lana it will be gold!

If a puppy poops on the rug, you do not praise it and say "Good boy!"
You do not give him a treat.
You do not ignore the poop.
When your friends and family come over, you do not tell them. "Well, pups will be pups!" and share a hardy laugh.
You do not beat the puppy to death, screaming about how much you hate it.
You smack the puppy with a newspaper, make it clear you are unhappy, and show the puppy where it can take care of business. This helps you raise a friendly, well-adjusted dog that knows what is and what is not acceptable.

UterusVille, at best, can be compared to dog poop.
The ratings are the much deserved smack with a newspaper.
Sadly, I have my doubts about the Goughlar being able to learn as quickly or as accurately as a puppy.

So, here's me saying that ratings for the finale will suck. Hard.

Many people are refusing to watch (rightfully), and the promotion for this episode is the worst I've seen all season. At this point in the week, I expect at least ten or eleven ad spots on TV (from Thursday night to Tuesday night). Currently, the season finale trailer has been shown six times. There's only one day left, and I don't expect a big push.

America's Next Top Model's finale has easily gotten at least 25 trailers at this point (no, seriously). It shows up during every commercial break. Why bother? They already know it'll approach six million (possibly over), so stop trying to shove it down my throat!

Hey after cragis review (thanks Craig) I want to change my bet I think we won't even hit the 3 million mark, 2.90 at best.

That bad huh?

Without getting spoilery, it's not very interesting sounding and the stakes are fairly low. It sounds like the best part is the special effects but I get that from Heroes so . . .

WORD!
I mean if all I wanted was special effects I would had rented Matrix...

As much as I wish that this were true S6 tanking doesn't guarantee no S8. After all look how we got to S6 in the first place. Ratings fall in S4, cancellation looms, ratings rebound in S5, bam S6. Same thing here. If S7 rebounds and is strong going into sweeps the S8 talks will come calling shortly after. They already have Tom signed for S8 too.

I wonder if TW has an escape clause somewhere. I sure as hell would use it if I were him.

Honestly I don't think it can recover the kind of ratings for a S8. I'm going to predict that people are just going to chill with other series and ratings will hover in the 3.0s for all of next season with occasional spike for the occasional DC guest but since they can't get the big guns like Batman or WW . ..

It all depends..If lana does indeed die and is off the series, and they focus more on Clark and new relationships then people will tune in.. at least at the beginning. ButLana dying would be a big draw at the beginning of the year for those that got fed up with that crap this year.

I know but take in account that KK and MR both want out I can be almost sure that AM will get a lot of job offers so she won't sign an S8 and then AoT is gone and JG most likely won't be here, then they will need a whole new cast for that season and I think that TW is smart enough to get the hell out of there before his image is totally spotted by the low ratings till could get I mean Clark, Temp Lois and Jimmy fans are not enough to keep this show running. So that is my idea of the direction of the show unless of course the make Chlois on S7 and devote S8 to show Chlois, Clark and Jimmy first year on DP. :D

Can't believe T.W. would come back for S8. He looks deathly bored most eps. It's a contest between him and M.R. who looks more uninterested. Still, M.R. phoning it in is better than 90% of actors on TV. Why not look to establish a spin-off, if not Green Arrow or Aquaman, somebody else?

I've got to think TW singed on for another year based on perks such as more creative control and/or more chances to direct. If he did it just because they offered him a boat load of money... he's lost a bit of my respect.

Maybe they approached him about season eight and he replied half jokingly, "get rid of Lana by the end of season six and we have a deal."

I still wouldn't sign up. Lower ratings= small budgets right? It just makes me wonder about the FX budget considering the conversion rate between US/Canadian dollars have gotten to the point there's no real savings. So basically he has less to work with. Considering that Goughlar is still in charge, I wouldn't put it past them writing ANOTHER lame triangle.

Maybe the approached him about season 8 on the day he saw The Fog. I think that would explain it.

As a Chloe, Clark and Lex fan I can understand the rapid drop in ratings. The destruction of these three characters is just too much for me to stomach. I think Lana fans attribute the ratings drop to Lexana and lack of Clana, right? But what do Lois fan says? Do they believe more Lois would equal higher ratings?

I suspect we all think more of our favorite characters would result in better ratings. I don't hang out on EDLois-friendly boards much, but here are a few comments from the CW Source blog:

Ha! They sound like us! And by "us" I mean the Chloe fans who have said similar things. Who am I to disagree? Maybe more Lois would mean higher ratings. But not from me. She is becoming a bit like Lana for me - every time she comes on screen I start to feel angry.

Thanks EllyF

Yep. And Lana fans say similar things, too. We all think our favorite characters would improve the quality of the show, and thus its ratings, I imagine.

Interesting thing perception I wish they do some sort of official survey to see what is really drooping the ratings so they can concentrate into the characters that draw viewers and lets the rest emigrate to better shows for them I think that will at least a couple of things.

Its Clexana.

I'd agree that Clexana might be one of the main reasons no matter how TPTB spin it.

Lois Lane episodes didn't bring the ratings in the first 2 years, what makes them suddenly think that they would do it now. If we are going to attribut the higher ratings to anything this year, it has to be GA. And it's just coincidence that Lois was involved with him. But you know, I guess everybody watched JUSTICE for the Lois scenes then huh?

Agreed. Even a Clana heavy episode manages to please a few folks. Clexana, and the way it has made Clark and Lex act, has managed to anger every segment of the fanbase.

Well I am a clois/Lois fan and I don't think and I can say that many cloisers don't think that Lois's episodes bring ratings.....in the case of Prototype we know that it wasn't Lois fult it was the stupid "Promise" wave that took down every episode after that

I'm not so much angered over Clexana itself but more about how Clark was berated/encouraged by other characters to "go there" again. IDK if that constitutes being angered at Clexana or just being angered about what was done to a character that I love...for me, I think it's the latter, which firmly plants Clexana as a symptom, like itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose.

I just don't see how logic can support the thought that Lois brings in a large crowd. If that were the case you would see a fairly large spike in any episodes that she appears in which is clearly not supported by any kind of empirical data. Heck it's not even supported by the unreliable data such as on-line polls where I have yet to see her win a popularity poll on any kind of neutral site. In fact she almost always gets buried in those.

The show lost close to 50% of it's viewership in the season she was introduced. Now of course I don't blame her for that (although I am 100% certain that at least a small chunk of both Clana and Chlark shippers stopped watching ) but just looking at that alone should tell even a 5th grader that the statement "Lois brings ratings" doesn't hold a shred of credibility.

Personally I think the main character acting like a douchebag is the biggest problem with the ratings.

ETA: Progeny having bad ratings doesn't necesarrily mean that people don't care about "Chloeville". It could possibly mean (you know just thinking here) that people think the freak angle is lame and would think so no matter which character it was applied to.

Nail meet head :)