I can't get into eye candy if I despise the guy or know that he's going to do something I can't stand like weep over some trifling bitch who basically jumped into the volcano and blames everyone else for her jumping into hot molten lava. I can just get screencaps from my fellow fans and look at them and pretend he's doing something sensible.

Heeee. And too true.

"What Is And What Should Never Be" was "Labyrinth," wasn't it. Only, the hero in "What Is" did everything I wanted the hero in "Labyrinth" to do, and was completely disappointed when he didn't.

As for the eye-candy in "Noir" failing to bring in the viewers, the problem is that anyone likely to be drawn to SV's eye-candy probably had been by season 4 or 5. They came. They saw. Some stayed. Some left. And those who left aren't likely to be drawn in again, no matter how hot TW might happen to be in a promo.

Yeah. Besides, Peter Petrelli filled the hot quota very nicely this week.

There's also the varying quality of the eyecandy. The gals in general ARE lovely but man, the clothing/makeup/haircut choices are just plain bad sometimes. The men don't have as much trouble but . . . I do remember people snarking on the changing definition of TW.

It just boils down to quality of the writing and what you think the series is trying to say. And what the series is saying just comes off as so incredibly horrible on so many levels.

I gotta agree. Eye candy is just not enough. There are tons of better written shows where you can get good eye candy too. I think it all reduces to the fact that they're bringing old storylines that most of the fans are sick of *cough*Clana*cough* which only purpose is to regress the show's main character 200 steps back.

Absolutely! I am so sick of pwetty pink pwincess martyr.

Hehehe.

I still think the PTB should cut their losses and have Clark wake up from the "Labyrinth" phantom possession in s7.

I think that the finale is going to go below 4 million . . . just because people stopped caring and believing that Clark is EVER going to pull a Dean Winchester (and I mean by himself) and have it stick for REAL. They made people stop believing in Superman.

Thank God for that. Patrick Dempsey is extremely unattractive. For the life of me, I can't fathom his appeal.

Me either. Not the actor, and certainly not the character.



Well what I thought was interesting was that both my brothers saw the promos and actively wanted to watch something else. They thought the dream was dumb. They hated the effects. They liked it by the end but they though the ads were stupid and wanted to watch the Office instead. And these are guys who are pretty big DC fans and have watched since the very first season like me, and try never to miss an episode.

Which made me wonder if it was Promise situtation where it actively made men tune out and not care.

And did it well. I am waiting with baited breath for the finale and I know that there will be continuity, there will be Dean and Sam who remember what they did in the previous episode and face consequences and make the hard decisions. Ages ago there was a "superhero" poll on yahoo - Dean beat out SV!Superman in that too. And he's actually not a superhero, come to think of it.

As for SV, I'll just catch up on what you guys say here afterward. Nothing we've heard about the finale and the lead up to it makes me want to even consider watching anymore. I thought Noir might in the end, but as it turns out - nope.

On topic, please, folks. Take the McDreamy talk to... well, don't take it anywhere if you can help it.

Final numbers:


This officially makes it the least watched episode. Ever. How fucking sad.

Thank you, Scry. That is sad. "Noir" didn't deserve those ratings-- it was one of the better episodes this season, IMHO. At the least, it was amusing and had a good deal of action in it. I hate to see a decent episode get such awful ratings.

So that is lower than "Onyx"?

"Noir" sure as hell didn't deserve those ratings. "Promise" did, but not "Noir".

I think that what people want though is that no matter how pretty the AU-verse is, it isn't real!Clark being dismissive of Lana/shooting her or real!Jimmy saying something bad about real!Lana. It's just another form of mind!whammie in a way. I think that this pretty much screamed filler or non-important. There's no progress promised. It's just a way of treading water.

I just think that Labyrinth and the way it regressed Clark was a major turnoff for people. SPN had a more mature and heroic man in Dean Winchester in his Labyrinth type episode. You can't infantalize Clark for so long before you give up hope. I wouldn't mind a Clark who occasionally drank beer and ogled at magazines like Maxim or liked to play practical jokes if they wanted to make him more human but this Lana thing doesn't make him more human it makes him more like one of those guys hunted by the FBI team in Criminal Minds. I don't think you could've regressed him much further if you wrote him and Lana being like the Honeymoon Killers.

Think of it as a judgment on the series as a whole not the episode because I think people are cutting their losses because they feel the rest of the series isn't getting any better.

There is no doubt that ratings fell dramatically after Promise and the awful Clexana. I hope TPTB will learn their lesson and concentrate on more Superman-y stuff in S7 because it's pretty evident now that people don't watch SV for it's heavy soap-y aspect.

I don't know if they'll ever learn. IIRC, Goughlar stated not too long ago he wanted to write more love triangles. Because everyone loved Dawson's Creek.

In that case, I hope the next episodes until the finale crash and burn in the ratings. As it stands, all we have to look forward to is Clexana. There's supposed to be a Clana kiss in Prototype, as I recall. If the last few episodes crash and burn, maybe they'll get a freaking clue.

Well I'm absolutely delighted with these ratings and will continue to fervently wish for SV's steady decline. In fact, the only thing that would make me happier at this point is the cancelation of season 7 and subsequent end of the series. Sure, I would LOVE to see CK become Superman, but I don't see that ever happening. This show is clearly about Lana Lang (rather KK's beauty) and nothing more.

Yes, I am bitter. I may not have been a fan since the beginning, but once I happened across that first episode (Splinter, I think), it intrigued me enough to tune in regularly. Shortly after, I went and purchased every last DVD set to catch up and have been along for the ride ever since. Sure, there have been many bumps along the way, but CK's downfall/backslide in Labyrinth poisoned me and Promise finished me off. I've continued to read the various SV boards to see if any new episodes offered improvement and I'm glad to see I haven't missed anything. What a shame. This show had so much potential. But at this point, they (writers, directors or the network execs) can't possibly believe this is still a show about young Superman can they? I'll bet TW can't wait for this nonsense to end.

I disagree. Someone correct me if I wrong, but I don't remember a significant drop in the ratings after "Labyrinth". Then again, I don't agree with "Labyrinth" regressing Clark, so I really think the killer was "Promise."

Wow, really? They've hit the lowest ratings ever? A year ago, I would have felt really sad that Smallville's ratings were doing so poorly, but now, I'm taking a great deal of pleasure in this...they assassinated every character and plot in the name of Clana and Lana Lang and now they're paying for it. Good.

You can't redeem an entire series with a handful of good episodes. Heroes doesn't ask that of people. SPN is at least fairly consistent with what it is: the story of Dean and Sam. House for all its wonky arcs like Vogler and Tritter arcs at least knows who the damn protaganist of its series is (despite some snarking about Cameron, it really IS House-centric).

A good series finale isn't going to redeem this series because as people pointed out you need the buildup to make whatever arc you have believable. You don't suddenly announce Lionel is good and has been working with MM all this time because damn if there are any clues in the series.

Goughlar has just thoroughly destroyed a lot of people's ability to connect with the characters or think they'll improve or reach that final step. They could've just had Clark get a clue about Lana seasons ago and have him deal with the real gal for 3 or 4 years now. They've also shown how thoroughly talentless and clueless they are and how uncaring. The question boils down to what is there for people who continue to watch. More Lana worship? More Clark acting infantile? What?

I just realize if this continues, they have the perfect excuse and validation for their gag-worthy Love of Lana - she left and the show was never the same again. It's the OC 2.0.

Pah. I still want it to crash and burn and get a wake-up call. The OC never had the history Superman has for it. Only the Goughlar will believe the show is worse off without everyone and anyone panting after Lana.

Well, I think the end of "Labyrinth" marked the sudden change back to Clana that defined the second half of the season. But it didn't totally upset the fanbase the way "Promise" did. I think that until "Promise" aired, we were all deluding ourselves that maybe it wasn't going to get as bad as it appeared, and that Clark would somehow begin to move beyond Lana. "Promise" pretty much killed that hope, and set Clark's character back several seasons. I think that's what killed the ratings. "Labyrinth" may have set the ball in motion, but "Promise" is when the ball really started to roll down the hill, forcing viewers to duck out of its path in ever-increasing numbers.



Well, yes and no. If they keep on this soap opera path? Sure, let 'em crash and burn. But if they analyze the ratings drop over the summer, figure out how to make the show better, and fix things at the beginning of season 7, I'll hope for ratings to improve. Because in an ideal world, that's how it would work-- screw up the story and watch your ratings plummet; write a good story and watch your ratings soar. Unfortunately, this isn't an ideal world, and once you've p*ssed off your audience too badly, you may not get them back. But I won't wish for the ratings to drop permanently until I see what they're doing next season, personally.

Series or season? Either way, ITA. Pulling something out of their asses because of one actress' decision to leave is asinine. Well, the way this show has done it is asinine.



The problem is I still think much of next season will be devoted to Lana, whether she' alive/dead/baking cookies in Timbuktoo. I can't imagine that this show won't have Clark wallowing for a good portion of the season either way. The show hasn't given us anything to think that Clark, Lex or Chloe for that matter won't all do the same thing without Lana. Who wants to watch a show about Lana even when she's not there?

In which case they fully deserve to go out with a whimper. But IF they have the good sense to analyze the precipitous ratings drop and fan reaction, and adjust the story accordingly, they can still produce a good last season. Maybe it's a big IF, but they've written well in the past. The first half of season 5 rocked, IMHO. If they've done it before, they can do it again. Plus, they seem to have significant writer turnover right now, so who knows how the new writers might approach the show and the characters? Things could conceivably change.

Yes, I'm an incurable optimist. Which is why I'm still watching "Smallville," I suppose:-).

They do? I thought only SDK left?



Well someone in this fandom has to be ;)

I don't know if they'll change anything if despite the sinking ratings, SV still is the CW's highest rated show.

VersesBatman, Gilmore Girls, Friday Night Smackdown, and America's Next Top Model are all rating higher right now.

Oh are they? Then nevermind.

Yeah, but it's also one of their most expensive to produce. How long until the CW says "You know, we can add a cool reality show for half the price that could get the same exact ratings Smallville is getting and turn a profit."?

Even with this decline it's safe for next year, for at least the first half anyway. They could very well cut the show short if the ratings don't rebound at the beginning of next year. Like FOX did with the OC.

But I think these ratings just killed any hope of season 8, and for that I'm very glad.



Smallville has been flip flopping with GG's for top spot among scripted shows all year.

SDK left, and he's one of the biggies. But haven't we seen two episodes toward the end of this season by new writers? Or am I confused? There seem to be more new writers on the staff, is what I'm trying to say.



Amen. If they could just write the story knowing it's the end, I think they could do a great job with it. They've done well before when they thought the show was about to end, after all.

As it has been mentioned before its also a very expensive show to produce. It costs a lot of money for a network like the CW. Given the ratings slide I'd be willing to bet the CW is just barely turning a profit on it even with the consideration that it still their strongest performing show. As soon is they(CW)start losing money on it you can be certain it will get canceled just a quickly as anything else that ever has when it reaches that state Smallville has ratings wise.



This a whole heartedly agree with and hopefully the network will actually look at what's happened with the show this year and change how they treat this show. Also lets hope that what's happened this year is also a final wake up call to Al/Miles about what people really want to see on this program and they stop with the soap opera bullshit and get on with showing Clark making is way to Supermandom.

Not really. There was Genevieve Sparling for Progeny, and Shimosawa/Morris all the way back in Static. Sparling may return, but Shimosawa was a co-producer on The Grudge (and it's sequel), which is probably why he was brought in to handle the very jap-horror quality of the concept.

CW ratings roundup (in order of final numbers, because I don't know how to read the demo stuff):


America's Next Top Model just won't budge, will it? Gilmore Girls, although recently canceled, is still doing well and consistently. Friday Night Smackdown! occasionally dips into the 3 million territory, but will surely be back in the 4 millions next week.

And, holy cow, One Tree Hill sits comfortably at 3.25 million viewers. After a massive hiatus, it scores some of it's best ratings of the season. Supernatural's core audience continues to stay along for the ride, and thank God 7th Heaven was cancelled, 'cause it be made of suck. :D Poor Veronica Mars! I hear their showrunner is making a last-ditch effort to create a special trailer for next season, but despite that, I think it's getting cancelled.

And finally, Smallville. I don't blame the spring weather or the "no one's watching TV anymore" excuse. None of the other CW shows are falling this fast or this dramatically. It's just SV. And I think we all know why.

So much for the argument that quality episodes = ratings.

Damn, what are they saying on Sweet about this? The ratings have been in freefall since Promise (AKA Everyone Loves Lana), and the usual excuses (warm weather, all shows dropping ratings in spring, HypnoToad is ordering minions to watch Fox) are not cutting it anymore.

Regardless of the Lana push, I think the destruction of the Clark character in Promise is what was the final straw for many folks. Sure, we all know Lana will be loved, and that everyone pimps her. I can even overlook pimping and OOC behavior by Chloe (drunk from being locked in wine fridge) and Martha (stoned to make it through wedding without laughing). But the change in Clark from GreenArrowVille (when he was heroic, proactive, intelligent and by the time Justice aired was taking a leadership role in his friendship with Olie) to Hydro (return of Clana and the BDA) to Promise (ugh) is just striking. I have always said Clark is at his worst around Lana, and when she becomes the center of the show, his character goes to hell.

If you know the hero is going to act like a hormonal 13 year old every time the girl he likes is on screen / threatened / talked about, it makes the show a lot less fun to watch.

The people at Sweet believe that it's because Lana actually married Lex in "Promise" that the ratings are in freefall. Clana and Lana Lang is everything. They also believe that if Lana dies at the end of the season, the show will die because TW cannot possibly sustain the show alone.

I think they could do this but I'm not convinced that the Goughlar care about the show anymore. If they showed me they cared, meaning go back to it being more about Clark than their Pwecious Pwincess then, I think there might be a S8.

This is hilarious. I just don't know what else to say without sounding insulting toward those people.

If this is indicative of what the CW is looking to add to it's slate once GG is gone, then I think we can all look forward to many episodes of a castrated Clark and Lex whining about how empty their lives are without Ms Lang and her Lanagina because Dawson's Creek-themed shows and craptastic reality TV seems to be where the CW is heading.

From TVGuide.Com: The CW's very own Bachelor Show



From Variety: CW harvests Wife. And DO is quoted as saying: Reality skeins, Ostroff said, "are a way for us to get a lot of attention, make a little noise and hopefully get some viewers."

I wonder if she counts people laughing their asses off at the CW as the attention they need?

Say it...These are people who rag on AM's flabby arms, and say that's why she sucks. And they have just as many spies watching us as we do them..lol..It's kind of like the cold war. :)




And this just proves my point that as soon as Smallville becomes non profitable they are going to yank it. 8 episodes at probably a third of the cost to produce and all it has to do is get PUSSY CAT DOLLS numbers.

That's goofy! Only the Clana lovers seem to really love "Promise." Everyone else went "meh."

Goughlar needs to promise the next year will be different, drop the love triangles and put the focus back on Clark and Lex. "Justice" proves that droves of viewers will come back, if they know they're getting something good. And "Justice" got those viewers largely on word of mouth and internet buzz; for an episode of its calibre, it was under-promoted.

If I'm the Goughlar this is what I say to the fanbase..

"This year was about the rise and fall of Lex Luthor to the dark side. Next year is going to be about the rise of a hero." Or something like that. That's why I don't work in advertising people..lol

Both propelled by the loss of the Blahna. I bet they're salivating at the thought of subjecting viewers to She-Who-Must-Be-Loved even when the cow is dead or faked her death. Or whatever..

At this point Liv, I don't care. I just want the damn story to move forward. :)

LOL! Fair enough, Kahn :) Part of me is kind of hoping for this exact kind of announcement from the Goughlar that this is the season 7 they're going for. I'm not as hopeful as you for it meaning forward movement for everyone, but for me it'll make it easier to stop hoping for anything good for any character from this show and it's creators. Hell, it will make the Farmer show more palatable at any rate.

Edited because according to other people it's the same and it's only showing up differently for me. Weird. Gonna check that out.

Do pre-empted new episodes often air at 3am in the US?

ETA: MissIndependant, the link says the episode is airing on Thursday at 8.

ETA 2: MissIndependant, I thought I was misreading something on that page. I'm sorry, I should have said that previously. I didn't mean anything by my previous post.

Goughlar better work on wrapping this mess up in season 7 because I doubt CW will survive long enough to give them a season 8. They're losing 7th, GG and probably VM (odds are its gone this season unless the S4 trailer looks fantastic). In that case, they are losing one half of their non-reality programming. I don't know much about OTH so I don't know how much longetivity that show has. Supernatural, from what I see on the boards, might have a life but I doubt SN along with a lumbering SV would be enough to keep a network afloat. Especially when "Farmer Wants a Wife" is the best new thing the channel has to offer. They only way I can see CW surviving as a whole is if they switch formats to some sort of Lame Reality Channel (no offense to fans of ANTM, Smackdown, PCD or FWAW).

If the Clark's path followed Lex's path, next season we will have learned that in Offscreensville Clark's been flying and saving people across the world but we just weren't told about it until now.

That sounds like some kind of horrific organ-harvesting setup!

My biggest worry about SV's declining ratings was that they would take Supernatural right down the drain. But it doesn't seem like SPN is that dependent on its lead-in. I wonder if that would make the CW more inclined to shuffle the schedule a bit?

It isn't dependent on Smallville. Smallville has taken precipitous drops from week to week, while SN only dropped a little or even gained a few viewers. The CW might shuffle, but are they going to put the untested Reaper against Grey's, CSI, and--if NBC is to be believed--the 18-34 skewing The Office at 9 next season? Watch them do something completely moronic like schedule SN Mondays at 9 against 24 and Heroes. If SN moves, the only places I can think for it are Sundays at 9 or Tuesdays at 9. Maybe they'll try SV and Reaper on Tuesdays, and put Gossip Girl and SN on Thursdays? With these execs, nothing is certain.

Has the dollar dropped against the Canadian dollar over the last seven years? Because that would probably be a bigger factor than purely ratings. As long as they hit the demo better than most of the other CW shows, they're safe.