The vast majority of shows these days are hitting season and series lows on network TV. Look at both Grey's and CSI who were under 20 million last night and even Idol has been dropping viewers.

I'd say the lower ratings are a reflection of people just not watching as much TV rather than Promise.

The CW had two new markets this week for Nemesis. Due to a deal with Time-Warner cable the CW just added El Paso, Tx and Palm Springs, Ca. markets this week so unlike other networks its ratings could have benefited from a suddenly increased audience size. Add to that there was no Chicago preemption this week so Nemesis had a much bigger potential audience than Progeny, but the ratings went down noticeably from last week. Last week's episode had a lot of strikes against it. Preemptions, lack of promotion coming off a hiatus, no lead-in that suggested that the ratings decline could have been people accidentally missing the show due to lack of ability to see it or lack of knowledge that it would be a new episode. This week's dip in ratings suggests an intentional decision by audience members not to watch. That is a bad sign.

Ok, I know people came out of the woodwork to post about how "Promise" ticked them off, it was the straw that broke the camel's back for them and a Clark Kent who would try to reunite with Lana when he believe she was pregnant with Lex's child and about to marry him didn't have the right moral character to ever become Superman, etc. but, I thought they'd get over it. I wonder if audience members aren't getting over Clark possibly being involved in something adulterous no matter the circumstances. I could see that turning some people off.

Like I said upthread. It turned me off. Lana is married to Lex period. And whatever their problems, it stays between them. Clark has no business trying to "rescue" or pursue Lana once she said "I do".

Except every other show this week lost viewers as well.

ITA. I still like the show and its appointment viewing for me but Promise was a disaster. Any forward momentum that had been occurring came to a screeching halt and the character assassinations...OY! I'm sure plenty of fans threw their hands up into the air and said 'the heck with this' and haven't come back.

When this show sticks to Clark and Lex, their respective journeys,their relationship,the Supes mythology, and the superhero aspect it does fine and excels in some cases. It's the soap opera love triangle bs that really bogs this show down and alienates fans.

For season 7 there needs to be an all out promotional blitz featuring Clark and Lex. Forget the triangle crap they tried for this season.

I'm a very occasional Smallville viewer (I enjoyed s1, but have watched sporadically since then), but I follow Smallville in part because of its relationship with Supernatural.

I think a big part of the problem is that, even though (like Gilmore Girls) Smallville's ratings have fallen since January/February, the CW or AlMiles have sort of taken its audience for granted and made few efforts to creatively promote the show. I had no idea Lynda Carter was guest-starring last week until I read it on the boards. Two of my friends are casual-but-loyal fans of Smallville (read: part of the fanbase, but not on the Internet) and they had no clue it was coming back until I told them.

And when there are promotions, they seem to show same-old, same-old stuff, and don't realize that the show now needs to work to keep much of its audience (due to a variety of reasons, including the quality reasons you guys have mentioned, daylight savings time, the fact it's in its sixth season, and the spring blahs).

Whereas Supernatural, by contrast, has tried a variety of creative promotions to keep its audience: Weekly World News Crossover! Tricia Helfer Guest Stars! Supernatural Goes Hollywood (which received extensive promotion in Entertainment Weekly and TV Guide)! And, most importantly, viewers were consistently reminded of the show's return date from each hiatus. Now, its ratings are still not amazing, but they're one of the few shows to be up since February, and consistent with September/October ratings even. Given that almost everything else on TV has fallen (other than the finale for Pussycat Dolls), treading water is an accomplishment.


Pussycat Dolls didn't, and neither did Supernatural, so I think something else is going on.

Kahn - I don't know who told you that, but it is not true.

Comparison of 4/19/07 to 4/26/07 prime time fast national ratings for 8 p.m. (week-to-week ratings)



Smallville was the *only* program at 8 p.m. to go down this week and that is despite the fact that the CW added markets this week so it had its largest potential audience yet.

As for Grey's, it went down about one million overall viewers from last week, but CSI, the former #1 primetime show, was a rerun last week. This week, CSI went up 7.5 million viewers. I would guess CSI recaptured those one million viewers it lost due to a rerun to a new Grey's last week.

Again, I'm comparing apples to apples. I am not going to go into finals bc Earl was preempted last week as was SV so that would get complicated. But, looking at the above, what I see, is that more viewers tuned in last night because they were aware that there would be all new programming on. And this audience awareness of new programming led to an increased in audience size for prime time for every other program except Smallville.

Gilmore Girls has unfortunately started a trend of being in the upper 3 millions, so its performance this week was normal. America's Next Top Model was a clips/recap show, not a new episode, so its 3.8something was perfectly fine. The comedies were even slightly up this week (Everybody Hates Chris hit 3 million for the first time in a while).

Massena I'm talking about since Feb. sweeps. The shows are down. Grey's Anatomy lost 7 million viewers from Feb 22 (the last week of sweeps) to 20 million this week (the first week of May sweeps).

This is not something that only Smallville is dealing with. Smallville may have been the only one to go down this week, but compared to FEB sweeps, almost every show is down.

Shows go down some in the spring. That isn't concerning to me. That is normal because with Spring and warm weather and the end of school, people get busy every year. The 18-49 demo went up from 18.3 to 19.6 this week, which means that there were more 18-49 years olds watching this week than last week. I can easily believe some of those viewers missed out on programming last week because they didn't realize there would be a new episode of their favorite show, but SV's decline doesn't have that excuse. It lost viewers from its lead in.

It's the week-to-week decline that is concerning because that is a sign of audience members intentionally skipping an episode. Some people who watched last week, skipped this week and there is no sign that happened for any other show at 8 p.m.

My 2 cents, for what they're worth, is that the show has gotten so far away from whats its supposed to be that its losing a lot of viewers that made up its core audience. I think its probably retaining the viewers who are into for the soap opera content, but I just don't believe that segment of viewers was sustaining the show. I think the most glaring, obvious thing about this season was that the show forgot its about Clark. And having Clark being involved in a love triangle is still not having the show be about Clark.

I also think the promotions for this show suck hard. And I think the CW takes it for granted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ratings for this episode were down only slightly from last week, and if the finals hold up, it might be down even less. Granted, there were new markets, no major preemptions, and the show wasn't coming off a hiatus, so maybe this episode ought to have done better, but all the same, I think it's pretty clear that EllyF is right. "Promise" did the real damage. The show lost around 600,000 viewers the week after "Promise." Since "Combat," the show has lost only about another 100,000 viewers. And yes, I realize that demos matter more than total viewership, but I maintain that over time, total viewership will reflect the demos, and vice versa.

So if this is true, then it seems clear what the show ought to do to regain viewers: they must first admit that they were wrong, and apologize. Seriously, Gough and Millar ought to apologize to Smallville viewers for "Promise." It can be a public apology issued through an interview, or they can perhaps somehow write a confession into the script for an episode, but they have to admit what they did wrong and commit to making amends for it. I realize it may seem like a strange idea for the producers of a television show to publicly apologize for an episode and for a certain character more generally, but I think it's the only way.

I'm not sure I understand what AlMiles should apologize for, RichardAK? The fact that every single character was ooc? The fact that they retconned the Lexana relationship? The fact that they character-assassinated Lex with the not!Baby story and Clark with the return to pining over Lana? And how could they possibly make amends for that?

I don't think Smallville has ever lost 600,000 viewers from one week to the next like the did with PROMISE. I know they've lost 500,000 viewers...Strangely enough I think the biggest drops always followed Lana centric episodes...Spell, Sacred...

I think doing something drastic in the finale like they have planned will bring people back...It's the only way.

eta: fixed for accuracy

Yes, nzs, all of that, and more besides. As to how they could make amends, they might start by having the other characters on the show open their eyes and see Lana as she is. An episode in which they all just finally acknowledge what a vile succubus she is would be a huge step in the right direction.

Kahhhn, I may be mistaken, but weren't the finals for "Promise" around 4.68 million, and weren't the finals for "Combat" around 4.08 million? If I'm misremembering that, I apologize. But if you're right and they lost 500,000 viewers and not 600,000 as I claimed, well, why quibble?

Oh no Richard, they DID LOSE 600,000 viewers...I was agreeing with you..lol.. I just realised how that sentence made it seem like I was disagreeing with you...

Nemesis Final ratings are in

Smallville
- 3.876 million viewers
- 2.5/4 HH
- 1.5/4 A18-49
- 1.7/6 A18-34

I still think all of these ratings comparisons are apples and oranges. Promise had literally no competition compared to something that airs now. So of course ratings will be down from Promise.

For a show like Smallville, quality hasn't equalled ratings. Good episodes like "Insurgence" and "Shattered" were virtually unwatched. Even Christopher Reeve's second episode, "Legacy," fared badly (I think... I don't remember for sure).

You also have to consider that nothing else on The CW would perform on Thursday nights at 8 as Smallville has. I don't think the network is or would be disappointed at all.

I don't think it's "people don't want to see Clana" one week, or "people don't want to see a Chloe episode" like the Clanas claimed last week. It's just the way the cookie ultimately crumbles.

Well, I didn't think Legacy was a very good ep, myself, but you would think people would have tuned in for CR (that's what brought me back to Smallville, as I had quit watching).

Nonetheless, there has to be some reason ratings change, so we all speculate. And we all bring our biases.

There are lots of factors in ratings of course. They are complicated. That's why there are professional ratings analysts/media buyers.

However, week-to-week trends are a concern because you don't want to see evidence that the audience is intentionally skipping episodes. That is the concern I have about a decline from Progeny. Nemesis had everything going for it and very unexpectedly it went down from Progeny. Audience retention gets a lot of discussion on ratings threads because tv viewing is a habitual activity and you don't want people to get out of the habit. Like a crack dealer, tv networks, need people addicted to their product. What I think the CW will be concerned about is some people who watched Progeny found Nemesis resistible for some reason.

TW's version of Bumbling Clark Kent in glasses should hopefully do better. Based on spoilers, I was going to skip the episode, but darn it if that image wasn't too adorable to get me interested in the episode. If "Noir" does poorly as well, then I think they have a big audience retention issue for next season.

Comparison between Nemesis' ratings and the last two episodes. I guess Promise really did scare everyone away...

Promise loomed large in their minds and left with nothing but Clexana-pimping, it's not hard to imagine viewers staying away in fear of being treated to Clark and Lex - in an enclosed space- in a pissing-contest over who loves Lana more. That's my reason, anyway. I'm not even bothering with taping it either.

That, and they showed the Clana scene with the hug and shit in the preview. If people were turned off by PROMISE that was not a scene they wanted to see.

You know, I've been thinking. I think Smallville should do the 24 thing and start up in January and go straight through. It would keep people tuning in since they would know there was a new episode every week. And hopefully the writing would improve.

kahhhn

ITA I don't know why shows don't do that period. I hate the gaps. If you have an audience they will watch. Idol has proven that. Smallville should do the last season that way, take time, create good stories, and go out swingin.

This makes so much sense. Which is why it will never happen. I started watching 24 this season and I love how there's no hiatuses or repeats.

I wouldn't say that the competition was that much lighter the night that Promise aired. New episodes of Ugly Betty and Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader were actually stronger that night than last night, and a repeat of The Office and new Scrubs isn't that much weaker than the new episodes of My Name is Earl and The Office airing last night. The only big difference is that the NCAA tournament aired instead of Survivor, and while that's likely less of a draw for female viewers, it's perhaps more of a draw for the male demos. I don't think a steep decline in ratings -- losing a full 0.5 in adults 18-49 -- was inevitable due to increased competition in April.

Networks rely heavily on repeat ratings -- if they did every show August-December and January-May, they'd have to double up on their shows or air repeats nearly entirely for one of those two periods. The problem with the latter option is that people are more likely to watch repeats between originals than they are to watch a long stretch of repeats. If you can't keep your repeat ratings up, it doesn't matter if your originals are doing a little better -- in the wrong run, you're just losing money, since (unless I'm mistaken) most media buyers pay similar rates for original and repeat episodes (which is why shows that repeat very poorly, such as Lost or American Idol, completely omit repeats -- so they can get much higher rates on the original episodes only).

The other option, doubling up on the number of shows you have so you run pretty much all originals August-May, is not feasible for any network. Just costs too much money. The ad rates alone can't make up for this -- the majority of a television show's income comes not from dollars earned from the original airings, but from network repeats, off-network syndication, DVD sales, merchandise sales, and sales from selling the show for airing in other countries. The more shows you have, the less of a market there is for this stuff (particularly network repeats). It's okay to run one, maybe two, shows straight, like some networks do, but if you notice those networks are also constantly running repeats in other timeslots that are without original programming (which reflects poorly on the network -- namely, Fox, which slumps horribly in the Fall then has two hit shows run straight in the Spring [well, 24 is fading fast...]). If you had (almost) all reality programming you could do it, though (because they're so cheap).

I'm sorry Craig but Combat got 600,000 less viewers and the show is now down almost a million since PROMISE. As Massena said, that kind of drop is ridiculous and can't just be brushed aside with the competition excuse. Something has driven away nearly 1 million viewers since Promise. Up until that episode the show was pretty steady.

Apparently they were pre-empted in some NY markets...One poster at SWEET said the episode didn't air until 10 pm. Which is after CW's broadcast hours.

Craig, the competition when Promise aired was pretty stiff. New (and stronger than currently) 5th Grader, new Ugly Betty, and baseball. Only network on 3/15/07 in repeats was NBC with two repeats of The Office. Combined, these shows account for 39.17 million viewers and 14.2 in Adults 18-49 worth of competition for Smallville (using fast nationals).

Comparitively, Smallville faced ALL NEW competition last night amounting to 40.89 million viewers and 14.6 in Adults 18-49 (also using fast nationals). The difference in competition is fairly small, considering that everything was new last night while this wasn't true for Promise's airing ...

I can explain a decline in spring ratings bc of weather. I am more interested in why both Combat and Nemesis lost viewers from their lead-ins. That's not normal. Generally, the first episode back from hiatus suffers ratings-wise because some people don't know there is a new episode. Now, Promise got pimped HARD, so the CW helped to overcome that problem with it, but then those viewers didn't stick around for the next week. That's not good. Likewise, Nemesis didn't build on Progeny. I can't explain that and that is what I am wondering about.

Scrappy - Maybe I did my math wrong. I got last night's 18-49 network audience at 8 p.m. on fast nationals as 19.6 and overall viewers as 52.05 million. Which would have been up from 18.3 (18-49) and 49.81 million the week before.

At one point they were talking about the "22 episodes back to back" thing prior to Season 4... but we would have had a SUPER long hiatus. Now that Smallville is about to enter its final season (or two) I don't think they'd change the format just yet. Though honestly it is a great idea. I know when I'm watching Doctor Who part of what I love so much is that there are 13 back to back... that just makes the other 39 weeks torture, though.

Hmm. Looking at the 8pm shows by hour:

CBS: Survivor: Fiji -- 13.82 million viewers, 4.5/13 demo
FOX: Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader -- 9.99 million viewers, 3.4/10 demo
ABC: Ugly Betty -- 9.56 million viewers, 3.1/9 demo
NBC: My Name Is Earl and The Office (average of the two to make a complete hour) -- 7.52 million viewers, 3.6/11 demo

I still get 40.89 million and 14.6 demo together. I think what you did is use the full hour ratings for the 1st three networks average per hour, added each of the two half-hours, AND added Smallville. I was only looking at Smallville's competition, not factoring in the show itself. And I averaged the two half-hour shows to create a full hour so they could be lumped together with the hour-long shows -- if you add the ratings for Earl and The Office separately, you'd need to look at the half-hours of each of the other shows and add those separately as well (i.e. add 1st 1/2 of Survivor + 2nd 1/2 of Survivor + Earl etc. etc.). It's just a consistency thing ...

Left work and went to dinner...trying to catch up...maybe this is what some are angry about, but that wasn't why I've lost my zeal for SV. I posted plenty about it and am currently undergoing "desensitization" at the advice of a fellow TWoPPER, (thanks, BTW, it's working :D )

In short, I was just flat out angry that TPTB or whoever decided that the characters should do a 180 and tell Clark the exact opposite of what they'd been telling him virtually all season. That episode and everything that followed Clark's dream was set up to inform me that Clark's POV was absolutely wrong. That's what pissed me off. I couldn't care less about the perceived impropriety of Clark supposedly wanting to carry off a pregnant woman about to marry someone else, which isn't what I saw. I completely disagree that this Clark could never be Superman, because I believe he can and he will. I'm not angry with you, but only wanted to clarify that what you wrote may describe some viewers; however, it isn't why I'm currently disengaging with SV. :D

Most people don't like to pick and choose which episodes to watch of a series. I watch every single episode of Heroes live if possible and when I was on vacation I caught up on www.nbc.com. I know that I will get something out of each and every single episode and not cringe a lot. SV isn't like that anymore for a lot of people. Promise was a cringe-fest for everybody BUT Lana/Clana fans and frankly the occasional good episode isn't enough to keep people around anymore. ANTM shouldn't be higher than SV but it is because it delivers what it promises every week (from what I hear).

Continuity really counts. If I get the message loud and clear that nothing in one episode COUNTS in the next or future episodes then why should I watch in a serial manner? (And if nothing counts more than Lana fracking Lang, why should anybody but Lana fans watch?) Goughlar is basically saying Serially Watching SV is for Supersuckers.

I don't mind episodic TV but at least the characterization is usually more stable. I know who Dean is and I know who Sam is for the most part.

I'm like that with Ugly Betty too. UB makes me want to watch the next episode, because they make me care about the characters and what's going on.

Oh, totally. I sometimes do feel like I'm not watching the same show every week - the characters just take turns to act as the plot facilitates, which makes it really easy for people to just miss the episodes they don't like along the way and catch up in between. I'd be lost if I missed an episode of "Heroes" - there's so much going on in each one. Smallville is definitely more of an episodic series, but it did a much better job keeping its contuinity (with the storyline as well as the characters) back in the earlier seasons. Ever since S4, it's been really hard to keep track of the bigger picture. I guess that sort of explains the "Taken alone, the episode was fantastic. Taken along with everything else that has happened this season - total BS" comments we're getting often in the episode threads. There's just no link from episode to episode - what's revealed in one episode is quickly forgotten about in the next.

Which makes me wonder if it was such a good idea to get rid of the FOTW format after all.

People said that Promise was pretty but the TOTAL flipflop irritated the shit out of them especially when it seems to be done for the sake of not the series as a whole but ONE character and ONLY ONE character. Goughlar blatantly said in that one episode that we will rape/mutilate every single other character for HER sake. Add some really horrible finale spoilers, complaints that Clark is a guest star on his own series, well you got a whole bunch of reasons why ratings have suffered. One good episode once in a while doesn't help. IN a way, it just makes people angry they don't get their shit that right all the time. It's another complaint I hear "Why don't you do this ALL the time?" But they don't.

I know there's this huge burst o' Lana!love at the moment and I just want to say "Dudes, I felt a little Lana!love circa early!Adam. She'll just go back to being the passive!bitch!victim whose ass is the center of the universe that she always is. You're all being played." It's like Oh, please, Goughlar, you're just doing a Lanarama skit where one week she's Angel-pus and the next week, she's a vampy dominatrix.

Don't blame other factors . . . it's the show.

Wasn't there a similar ratings drop last season after Reckoning?

I guess it begs the question... does Smallville's ratings drop in the spring due to the target audience watching less TV...

Or do people just stop watching when Special Event Episodes make is clear everything really is about teen angst and Lana?

I just think trying to blame it on spring and these other outside forces just ignores the fact that if the show is bad, ratings go bad. There's a point where people give up on ever seeing certain things. I've given up on Lana ever being found out for being seen as a bitch/hypocrite by the "good" characters SOBER and having it STICK or Clark's thinking at the end of Nemesis actually being shown to LAST because he'll be back to being all about her soon enough. I think that some people who were on the Lexana train or at least interested in it being team Lexana were pissed off that it was just Jason redux. There's nothing to look forward to especially with even more threatened lightswitches and really stupid shit like green tears. They have great ingredients but the cooks they hired can't boil water half the time.

Mobius you can't just blame it only on the quality of the show when it has been the pattern since the beginning of the show to lose viewers in the spring.

That being said I believe it's QUALITY/STORYLINE---70% AND SPRING DIPS --30%

I agree, mobiusklein. This season imo is the worst even taking account s4. At this point I don't trust what we see on screen anymore seeing as it could be easily retconned if the PTB change their minds (see: "Reckoning" to "Hydro"). As for Lana, I fast forward though her scenes. I cannot stand that character anymore and, like you, I've lost hope the "Lana blinders" will ever come off for any of the characters.

This is one of the best analogies I've read in a long time.

With SV, I hear things like "WOW, it didn't suck this week" or "It's SURPRISINGLY good tonight but who knows about next week." And this is from people who LIKE the show or WANT to like the show. That's NOT something that works as a TV show. Heroes at least for now has been getting comments like "Wow, gets better and better" etc. and frankly the cast of Heroes is just as pretty and a point on THEIR side is the pretty is multicultural.

I just think we all deserve better. Much better.

This is from abcmedianet today. It's for the week of 4/23 through 4/29.

83 FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN 4210 1.5
85 SMALLVILLE 3880 1.4
86 AMERICA'S TOP MODEL-2 3870 1.4
88 GILMORE GIRLS 3750 1.3
90 PUSSYCAT DOLLS PRESENT 3430 1.2
91 SUPERNATURAL 3330 1.2
92 EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS 3010 1.1
93 7TH HEAVEN 2960 1.0

I think it's interesting that SV beat ATM. It wasn't much but they beat it.

I think ANTM had its recap episode last week, so that would explain how Smallville could beat it.

At least SV beat the Pussycat Dolls, which I'll admit to watching.

Well sadly, this season there doesn't seem that much of difference in quality between the Pussycat Dolls and Smallville. I mean the pcd are so trashy that it's really entertaining and I think (hope) they know it, wheras Smallville tries to be a serious heroes-esque show and ends up being totally boring. (But I'm still upset that Asia won)

Me, too. (OT as in not SV - sSorry but I had to concur.)

I also think "Promise" played a big part in driving away viewers. This evidence is purely anectodal, but I know several formerly loyal non-Internet fans, including my brother, who have stopped watching the show since "Promise." My brother is in his early 20s, and his friends at work who used to watch gave up because of all the soap opera crap. On the other hand, my brother didn't make an intentional decision to give up the show, but said he has been forgetting to tape it or otherwise watch it since "Combat." He actually got ahold of a copy of "Nemesis" a few days after it aired, and only watched half of it because he realized he just doesn't care anymore. If TPTB can't be bothered to care about their show, why should viewers?

And I know I'm one of those bitter Internet fans whose opinions don't really matter to TPTB, but I don't get much enjoyment out of the show anymore either, at least not since "Justice" and the first 40 mins. of "Labyrinth." Maybe I'll stick it out till the end, and maybe I won't. But I don't think it's good for Smallville to have even a decent portion of viewers who really aren't invested anymore and are watching out of habit. Habits can be broken. (As I sadly found out last night, when I forgot to watch Veronica Mars after an 8-week hiatus. Boo!)