I'm always interested in the literary and historical references that Lionel and Lex toss out. Here are some things from Season 1:

Pilot:Clark drops The Portable Nietzche by Lana's feet.


Metamorphosis: Lex references Battle of Troy and St. George the patron saint of boy scouts

Hothead: Lionel references the Caesars

Craving: “Confederacy of Dunces” by John Kennedy Toole was given to Lana by Whitney

Rogue: Lex tells Clark about Alexander The Great

Shimmer: Lex tells Clark about Napoleon’s coronation.

Hug: Lex tells Clark about “To Kill A Mockingbird”

Stray: Lionel references Carl Von Clausewitz, "On War." And Philip of Macedonia.

Reaper:

Crush: Lex and Lionel quote from the poem “A Song To Myself” by Walt Whitman.


Tempest:Lionel lectures on Alexander the Great to Lex. Lex quotes from Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar

I know there are alot of references throughout the seasons. Anybody got some more?

Oh, cool idea for a thread. The title seems a bit long, though. It's really maxing out across the screen there. Just a thought for shortening:

Speak Like A Luthor: Literary References
A Luthor Education: Literary References

This week's screwy version of the Icarus story.

I forgot the episode but earlier in the season Lex told Clark a Bible story about King David where the point was pretty much a guy stealing his best friend's girlfriend but then Lex did a 180 and made it about fighting for something or other.

ETA:

Based on the first reference, How about "The Portable Smallville."

Yeah, Lex has been a bit off in terms of his references recently. I think there are some other instances - mostly in mythology references - where he's said something that makes everyone playing along at home go "Huh?"

In Onyx Alexander referenced The Man in the Iron Mask.

In Calling, Clark mentioned that he'd looked thru every book from Socrates to Shakespeare, trying to find someone who could put into the words the way Lex and he...that is, Lex and Helen, felt about each other.

Can we talk about the historical references too? Because I could have a field day with those.

Oh, and as for the King David reference, I believe the moral was supposed to be that even the guy that slew Goliath did something sleazey like have his friend killed so that he could snake his wife. So, just because people do good things, they aren't perfect. Even heroes are flawed. Something like that.

Of course, we know it was really about lexana.

If Omar wants to shorten the title, that's fine with me.


Sure.

In Fanatic, they mentioned The Art Of War.

In Crush, Clark is reading Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. And the book Lex gives Pamela is Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman.

In Red, Lex and Lionel reference Oedipus. Lionel also mentions Arthur and Merlin.

Of course, Nocturne is rife with references. Edgar Allan Poe, Byron, Shakespeare.

And Lionel's Prometheus story:

I laughed at how Lex pronounced "Thucydides" in that pep talk with team-Lex, though it's probably pronounced different ways.Just never heard that way.

One historical reference that makes me laugh is when Henry Small says "That's what the Vichys said about the Nazis. Look what happened to France." about her silent partner in lex and Lana tells Clark he was comparing her to Nazis. Um, okay Lana.

I don't remember the exact episode, but I do know it was during this current season.

Clark's Prof was spewing out names of 'evil' men in history and comparing them to Lex.

Or...

Lex's Leviathan: either referring to (Greek?) mythology or Thomas Hobbes's book of the same name.

Not sure if this is the best thread for this (apologies, if not) but I've been reading Phillip Pullman's awesome His Dark Materials trilogy and came across this description of two angels. For me, it evokes Clex at their best:

'Balthamos was slender; his narrow wings were folded elegantly behind his shoulders and his face bore an expression that mingled haughty disdain with a tender, ardent sympathy, as if he would love all things if only his nature could let him forget their defects. But he saw no defects in Baruch, that was clear. Baruch seemed younger....and was more powerfully built, his wings snow white and massive. He had a simpler nature; he looked up to Balthamos as to the fount of all knowledge and joy. Will found himself intrigued and moved by their love for each other."

I was totally visualizing Lex & Clark while reading this.

What an awesome thread, Lovesick. And all the title suggestions, including the one here, sound great to me. I clicked in right away, but I do love that: "The Portable Luthor".

"Exposed". The only thing I liked about the eppy was their conversation, *g*.

"Thirst". I loved the exchanges between Lex and Fine.

Durq, that was beautiful. I could see Lex and Clark too reading that. Gosh.

So many stand-outs have already been listed, but I'll add "Legacy" when Lex said:

And of course in "Phoenix", he referenced the legend.

I love that quote from Legacy.

In Ryan, Lex talks about Churchill to Mayor Cigarette Smoking Man:


In Suspect, Lionel is reading Beyond Good & Evil by Nietzche.

King David? Well, we all know about David and Jonathan. (Not Jonathan Kent, though.)

Thamiris started a very interesting discussion of the Icarus reference in her LJ. http://www.livejournal.com/users/thamiris/254231.html

That's interesting.

THis is more of a historical reference, but in Exile (3-1) Lex dreams up an alter ego: Lewis. In the history of Lewis and Clark, the two are pioneers who brave their way across America. Duiring the journey, Lewis boughts insanity and eventually - if I have my facts right- kills himself. I always thought that was why they chose the name Lewis.

From the Lockdown thread:

I posted a plot description in the episode thread. I'll just repost that post here.

From what I remember. "The Idiot" is about a guy (Myshkin) who's supposed to be perfectly nice, not a bad bone in his body. But he suffers from an affliction (presumably epilepsy- hence the title). He also has a "friend" who's dark-ish and is sort of the opposite of Myshkin and they compete for the affection of a beautiful girl who's self-destructive and ashamed of who she is. Anyway, because he's so good and trusting, people think he's odd, take advantage of him, etc. At the end he ends up having a nervous breakdown. The purpose of the novel is to show how the truly good man cannot survive in a world like ours.

Again, I don't get how this applies unless they boil the novel down to : "Super nice guy in love triangle with evil friend" even though the love triangle wasn't close to being the most important part of the novel and none of the characters fit what might be their representations in the show.

Dr. Zhivago would have been a much more apt parallel as that's more clearly about a love triangle between two guys and a personality-less girl everyone adores.

Life is so much easier thinking of Clark being an idiot and that's why they used "The Idiot."

Thanks so much for posting the background on "The Idiot", CantThinkUpName. That's interesting. I bet they did choose that novel on purpose.

Lena Supesville, I think that makes total sense re: Lewis and Clark. I'm going to re-watch "Exile" and "Phoenix" again, and I just know now when I watch those scenes with Lewis, I'll be like, "Lewis!"

ciaan, I'm going to have to check out your link as well. Thnx!

And well, this wasn't in an episode, but I had posted it on another board when we were waiting for "Lexmas", and I thought I'd post it here too. Hope that's OK. It's Shakespeare and linking it to "SV", I thought of "Nocturne" and Byron quoting The Bard - plus of course the wonderful scene between Lex and Lana and their poetic connection, which you already posted, Lovesick ("Take me to you, imprison me..., *swoon*!). But considering that, this is Sonnet 43 -

For Lex/Lana (thinking of "Lexmas" and now "Lockdown" with Lex telling Lana about his dream).

When most I wink, then do mine eyes best see,
For all the day they view things unrespected;
But when I sleep, in dreams they look on thee,
And darkly bright are bright in dark directed.
Then thou, whose shadow shadows doth make bright,
How would thy shadow's form form happy show
To the clear day with thy much clearer light,
When to unseeing eyes thy shade shines so!
How would, I say, mine eyes be blessed made
By looking on thee in the living day,
When in dead night thy fair imperfect shade
Through heavy sleep on sightless eyes doth stay!
All days are nights to see till I see thee,
And nights bright days when dreams do show thee me.

* I can't help but think of him.

Cue hollow, bitter laugh.

viola I wish I had your enthusiasm. And faith.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to believe that the episode after they get Icarus and Apollo wrong, they will get Dostoyevsky right. And they've already messed up Neitzche.

And the difference between ancestor and descendant.

*g*, you're right, romantic idiot. Well, hopefully they'll get the next reference correct - especially if it's Lex who speaks it. :)

Perhaps making false references is Lex’s way of fucking with people’s heads? Perhaps he believes everyone around him is so far beneath him that he’s praying that one day someone will correct one of his references and prove themselves a worthy adversary (or gay love muffin).

In Phoenix, Lex references the Bible. Comparing what he thinks Lionel did to him with Abraham and Isaac:

And after Lex confronted Helen on the plane and she jumped, Lionel says:


In Ageless, Clark says that The Velveteen Rabbit was his favorite book as a kid.

Hi everyone. Nice ones, Lovesick. Gosh, the Lex/Lionel confrontation in "Phoenix". (Lex in a hoodie - *swoons!*)

Here's another one. Not spoken by Lex or Lionel, but - Robert Louis Stevenson's "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde":

"Nocturne":

"Rush":

"Transference":

*sighs and waits for Lex's next literary/historical reference, and knows that it will be correct and wonderful (better be, "SV"!)*

To bump this up:

In Onyx, Lex #2 references The Man In The Iron Mask:

Hey! Writing to you tonight from the Red River Valley of the North/ Northern Plains, North Dakota-- the so-called "State where Lewis and Clark spent the majority of their time on the 3-year journey." They spent 8 months total in the state, mostly because they had to spend WINTER up here!! HAHAHAHA There are no actual remnants of buildings from the 1803-6 journey b/c as my ex-girlfriend put it, -20 ˚F weather and 30+ MPH wind has a tendency to wear down historical landmarks. But Ft. Mandan, a few minutes West of Bismarck, ND has been rebuilt as an interpretive center and this spring and summer mark the final year of the 200-year anniversary of the trek. You can see some facts by visiting the www.nd.gov website and working your way through the Tourism links to the Lewis and Clark stuff. Interesting stuff like:

Who is she? Sakakawea? Sacagawea? Sakajawea?
Even Lewis and Clark used several different spellings, which probably caused today’s confusion. In North Dakota, we use Sakakawea because her Hidatsa name was Bird Woman. The Hidatsa word for bird is Sakaka and for woman is wea. In any case, she’d probably marvel at all the fuss. But could she ever have dreamed that she would someday be remembered with more statues than any other woman in America?



RE: Meriwether Lewis' suicide: My dad has been driving the Lewis and Clark route a chunk each year; he had to turn back in Montana's Rockies last year b/c of valve problems with his truck. But I'm basing the answer to your statement above based on dad's interpretation. Lewis committed suicide actually after he was back at work as a government employee (Gov of Louisiana Prov.) in a desk job, and had fallen into deep debt. Dad's analysis was that the excitement and adventure of the trek to the West coast followed by the boring, stressful job led to the depression/ suicide. Others point out that the hotel/ location of his death was a dangerous area (Lewis had a gunshot wound to the chest and head), so at the time, it was ruled most likely murder/robbery. Modern studies are the ones that attribute it to actually suicide. As to the assessment of the alter/ ego, maybe so. A famous writer from Minnesota is named Sinclair Lewis, so in each case, it is "Lewis" but it is a last name in each case-- the symbolism is there, though.

Lovesick, thank you for bumping the thread up; my heart so broke when Alexander said that (above) *cries*.

jgalt, that's interesting. Thanks. Ever since Lena Supesville wrote about the Lewis-connection, I've thought of it whenever I watch "Exile" or think about Lex on the island alone.

As for another literary reference, we've mentioned "Lexmas", but not yet the character/story specifically, so here I go:

I've been thinking about "Lexmas" again *g* and the two stories. I think it's interesting that in Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol", Ebenezer's final vision is that of his own death - alone and unloved, not missed and without a legacy. But in "Lexmas", Lex's final vision is that of Lana dying - she's taken away from him and their family; he's unable to save her. He then wakes up and makes his choice.

From "A Christmas Carol":

I have thought about Lex's decision so many times since "Lexmas". How he chose to pursue the path of power, wealth and influence - and how he said he wanted it all. For me, I had always thought of him choosing that path, not as a rejection of what he saw in his dream, but because he wanted a way to keep it. His line about being able to secure everything else once power is had, really punctuates this for me. I feel he wants the life he dreamt, but of course not the tragic ending. And so once awake, he resolves himself to find a way to make it so that "the ends will change".... While he seeks his power and wealth and influence - he still has his dreams of what could be: "Are these the shadows of the things that Will be, or are they shadows of things that May be, only?"

*sigh; thinks of Lex*

Oh, the poor man!

I actually thought this was pretty lame. What 15-year old even knows who Nietzche is, let alone reads his work? The only reason I know who he is is because of Smallville, and I'm pretty literate.

Well, Clark is supposed to be Superman...Kryptonian superintelligence and all that. That's what I figured it was....Clark was reading Nietzche because it was at his Kryptonian intelligence level. Of course, that was before I knew he was a BDA.

Eh, I thought it was a totally lame 'wink, wink, nudge' by the writers. See, he's CLARK KENT. And he's going to be SUPERMAN, but he hasn't figure it out yet. Geddit??

It's still a failed literary allusion, though. The Nietzschian ubermensch is practically the anti-Superman, what with the rejection of absolute morality and all.

I'm not saying it was a good allusion, just that the writers probably threw it in there simply for the man/super-man phrases, not to illustrate how smart Clark is.

I agree; I don't think they thought much beyond having a nice little anvil to drop on us. They's fond of them anvils, they are.

I joined SV late in the game, so when I saw the pilot, I just assumed that Clark wasn't actually reading it. He was just using it to hide the cow porn magazines from his parents.

Why would he need to do that? I'm sure Bo bought him his first issue.

But why would he have to hide them from Bo? I mean, that's probably where he got them from anyway (And I don't even want to ask exactly what cow porn is in the first place...)

I don't have my glasses on right now, so in addition to leaning really far forward on the desk to squint at my monitor, I read that initially as "corn poon."

I don't know what "corn poon" is, but it's sure entertaining when I say it in my head.

I doubt there's really much philosophy that directly parallels the Superman mythology since it's all, you know, made up. So if they want to use literary and philosophical references without having him reading Superman comics, it's going to have to be shoehorned to some degree. Chill.

Plus, I don't think they were going for anything deeper than the wordplay of 'man or superman.'



Well I did, although I doubt most of Smallville's (and indeed WB's) target audience knows who, like, Kurt Cobain is.

Re: Man V Superman. I have to agree it's wordplay and it was meant to be cute and it's a "legitimate" question. It was silly but I don't think they necessarily misunderstood what Nietzsche's superman was. If Lana was to go on about how the Nietzsche Superman was the bastion of morality then we might have a problem. But as for how the line went, it's passable.

I agree with above. Lana isn't referencing "superman" as in the comic book hero but as a more generalized concept so it isn't that literally off. Of course, like most teens it seems more real when they make mistakes. And I don't think it is unusual to read Nietzsche in high school. I read a little in high school lit class. And I have no problem with the writers pushing the envelope about what is realistic anyhow (otherwise I wouldn't watch the show).

Interestingly the first version of Superman, done as a one-issue zine by Siegel and Shuster, was patterned after the Nietzschian ubermensch - and, I'll have you know, was bald!

Yay! More ammo for the Lexark! theory

Now we know how Clark made his living in Metropolis that time.

"Give me money!"

"Oh, ok then!"

Is it just me or have they been short on references this season?

In Duplicity, Lex and Lionel talk about Oedipus:


In Lineage, Clark, Chloe and Pete talk about Greek mythology:


In Redux, Lex tells Lana about Pandora:


And Principal Reynolds has a copy of Count of Monte Cristo on his desk:

No, I agree, Lovesick. I love the references we've gotten and I too look forward to any that we get. Those that you've just listed here are great.

In "Fragile", we didn't get a literary reference, but we did get Lex mentioning Shakespeare, which made me happy. With the whole "Hamlet" take happening on the show, I thought that was nice, them mentioning Will. Also, I've been thinking of Lex, *g*, and there was a discussion earlier that made me think of a particular sonnet. I won't post it here, but maybe one day. :)

But for "Fragile", Lex said to Lana (in that voice of his)--


This also made me think of "Nocturne", which was already noted for the thread, with Byron quoting Shakespeare and Clark and his sonnets. And of course, not Shakespeare, but Lex and Donne - *swoon*!

About Shakespeare and Superman though, I've also wanted to post a link to some artwork, but I didn't know which thread would be best. With Lex mentioning Shakespeare in "Fragile" though, I thought maybe here would be fitting, *g*.

I was rewatching Sacred:



This makes me think of Lex's quest in Superman Returns.

I'm new here. Hello! to everyone.

I have just finished wacthing all previous seasons of Smalville on DVD and realized that each and every character seems to be based on a character of Greek mythology. The funny thing is that I have talked to some people who watch the show and it seems that I'm the only one with this point of view. Even here I have not find much discussion on the subject. So bear with me for a while and say what you think.

It may even contain spoilers !!

The way I see Smallville is Mount Olympus. Clark is Zeus, king of the gods. Zeus is also a Sky God what ties him to the elemental stone of air.

Let's look at Zeus parents, Cronus and Rhea. Regarding to Cronus all I'm going to say is that the word crow is derived from the greek word Cronus. The word Rhea though, is the greek word for mother, flux or stream. We met a Girl named Raya, who helps Clark return home through a portal and that was hinted could be Clark's mother or at least someone very close to his father. Also, the word raia in other languages derived from Latin has almost the same meaning as rhea. I think that the change of name is to avoid people on the boards or elsewhere starting sugesting that future episodes could be named The Diary of Rhea or the The Story of the Gone Rhea. Enough said. We will see about that soon.

Lana Lang is, of course, Afhrodite, the Godness of Love, to whom every men and half the women fall in love with. Lex is Ares, God of War. Ares is linked to destruction and extermination and, is most of the times paired romantically with Aphrodite.

Dr. Swann is the God Sun Helius who high above Earth sees and hears everything and B. Crosby could be considered Hermes, the messenger of the gods.

After all that we are left with Chloe who is Demeter. Demeter is a Earth Godness ( earth element connection) who is considered Godness of Fertility of the Earth. Actually, the name Chloe is derived or linked with the greek name of the Godness Demeter. The relation to Demeter is even more interesting as possible future sub plots for the show. If you are curious check out the story of Demeter and Persephone, and keep in mind that other name for Persephone is Kore (" K " sounding word as in Clark and Chloe). And, in a past episode we hear Lex saying that one of the reasons he is jealous of Clark is because among other things Clark has an " inner core". Also keep to keep in mind: Demeter goes looking for Persephone wearing a cloak and carrying a TORCH. There are many other connections between Chloe and Demeter and we could talk about that later. The stories about Demeter can even explain the connection between Chloe and Jimmy Olsen.

Finally, I assure you that Greek mythology can also explain the Lois dilemma and Clark / Superman's choice of wives, Alysha/ Alicia included.

Already talked to much. Bye.

Welcome mithos! I have never heard of Smallville as an analogy to Greek Mythology but you present a good argument. I'd be curious to see how you tie in Clark's women, Jimmy and Lois to the mythos as well.